hobbyists

[The Xia]

Many posters here use the word "hobbyist" to describe people who practice martial arts that don't train hard, realistically, don't take martial arts seriously, or some combination of these.
Here are some definitions of "hobby."
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hobby
Here is one definition from Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) .
"1. an activity or interest pursued for pleasure or relaxation and not as a main occupation: Her hobbies include stamp-collecting and woodcarving."
With this in mind, wouldn’t serious martial artists who train hard and realistically still be hobbyists so long as we enjoy it and martial arts are not a main occupation? Wouldn’t that mean that those of us who practice martial arts because we enjoy it and whose main occupations are not pro-fighters, MA school owners and teachers, etc are hobbyists? According to the definition given, yes. According to the definition given, the way I described that many posters use the word is an incorrect usage. So why is "hobbyist" used that way?

[sanjuro_ronin]

I think the term is used, usually, on someone that does MA "for fun" and couldn't care ( or at least say they don't) about the "martial" applications.

[xcakid]

Hmm....interesting definition.

I have been taking MA in one form or another since I was 13yo. Granted I took a 12yr break. I have always taken it for the physical fitness aspect of it first and foremost. From Chi development, strength, flexibility and cardio aspects of MA. The side effect was I learned how to fight. I never took MA in the mindset of learning to fight. I also enjoy theories and history of it. As well as dissecting various form applications.

So I guess I am a hobbyist?

[The Xia]

I don't see how someone who doesn't enjoy martial arts can stick with it. Sure, martial arts were designed and used for combat and many people go into MA for self-defense. I have seen many people take up MA to casually “learn a little self-defense” and drop out after a few months, or even weeks. But that tends to change if it's someone who actually faces violence. However, I maintain that if someone doesn't enjoy it, I can't see him becoming a lifer (unless he really needs it or is some kind of masochist lol).

[sanjuro_ronin]

I don't see how someone who doesn't enjoy martial arts can stick with it. Sure, martial arts were designed and used for combat and many people go into MA for self-defense. I have seen many people take up MA to casually “learn a little self-defense” and drop out after a few months, or even weeks. But that tends to change if it's someone who actually faces violence. However, I maintain that if someone doesn't enjoy it, I can't see him becoming a lifer (unless he really needs it or is some kind of masochist lol).

Not sure what your point is...are you saying that the moment you "enjoy" is that makes you a hobbyist?

[The Xia]

Not sure what your point is...are you saying that the moment you "enjoy" is that makes you a hobbyist?
According to the definition, it's a combination of enjoying it without it being your main occupation.

[SevenStar]

the term is used to distinguish recreational people from the more serious ones. By serious, I mean people who compete heavily, people who need MA due to their occupation, be it pro fighter, bouncer, cop, etc.

[sanjuro_ronin]

According to the definition, it's a combination of enjoying it without it being your main occupation.

So any olympic athlete is a hobbyist ?
Or even semi-pro fighters are hobbyists ?

[PangQuan]

Hobbyist?

hell im a MA Hobbyist....yet i train hard, and realistically.

though i dont teach, or compete....so what else do i have? I rarely ever defend my life, and if i do its through correct thought and action, not MA

call me a hobbyist all you want, but dont assume i would just roll over and play dead if you step. I can still beat some ass.

[Becca]

the term is used to distinguish recreational people from the more serious ones. By serious, I mean people who compete heavily, people who need MA due to their occupation, be it pro fighter, bouncer, cop, etc.
I agree with this. You can be a "lifer" without beinga profecianal. Even if your income isn't 100% from MA, if is is an actual occupation, or an active part of your occupation, than it's no longer for fun, no mater how much you enjoy it. And loving all aspects of the harder training does not make it an occupation.

I think the more intense practitioners like to call the less intence one's "hobyists" to make distinction. If you want to train hard, you have to make it a life style or you get hurt. If it's just for fitness, it can be a side thing, less of an impact in your out-of-the-gym/kwoon time. Sometimes it is ment as an insult, but usually not. It's a statment of fact.

If you want to play hard, you must train 3-4 hours a day, most days of the week on top of the time spent at the kwoon. You in effect train as hard as a pro might. You just don't get paid to fight.

[PangQuan]

I think often when people say the word hobbyist, it imply's that the "hobbyist" isnt a real martial artist.

people assume you do things half assed, never spar/fight, and dont know a fist from a foot.

its a bad tag and a worse rap.

you can be a hobbyist and still be very serious. yet are not involved in sports/teaching/protecting others for a job....

[The Xia]

the term is used to distinguish recreational people from the more serious ones. By serious, I mean people who compete heavily, people who need MA due to their occupation, be it pro fighter, bouncer, cop, etc.
If we go by the actual definition, competing heavily does not place someone outside the realm of hobbyist (unless he competes as a main occupation). Pro-fighter I agree with. Bouncer and cop depends. If the bouncer isn't the person's main occupation, I think that disqualifies him from not being a hobbyist. The same goes for if the bouncer doesn’t use MA as part of the job. Ditto for cops.

So any olympic athlete is a hobbyist ?
Or even semi-pro fighters are hobbyists ?
If it's not their main occupations, yes.

Hobbyist?

hell im a MA Hobbyist....yet i train hard, and realistically.

though i dont teach, or compete....so what else do i have? I rarely ever defend my life, and if i do its through correct thought and action, not MA

call me a hobbyist all you want, but dont assume i would just roll over and play dead if you step. I can still beat some ass.
DING DING DING! We have a winner! :D
The point I’m making is that the definition of “hobbyist” isn’t a practitioner who doesn’t train hard, realistically, take MA seriously, etc. Those things are attached to the word by many forum users. In reality, being a hobbyist doesn’t mean any of those things. It just means that your practice is not your main occupation and that you do it because you enjoy it.

[The Xia]

I think often when people say the word hobbyist, it imply's that the "hobbyist" isnt a real martial artist.

people assume you do things half assed, never spar/fight, and dont know a fist from a foot.

its a bad tag and a worse rap.

you can be a hobbyist and still be very serious. yet are not involved in sports/teaching/protecting others for a job....
Someone gets my point. :D

[The Xia]

I agree with this. You can be a "lifer" without beinga profecianal.
I don't dispute that.

Even if your income isn't 100% from MA, if is is an actual occupation, or an active part of your occupation, than it's no longer for fun, no mater how much you enjoy it. And loving all aspects of the harder training does not make it an occupation.
Someone might choose a main occupation "for fun." Nevertheless, it's still a main occupation. Therefore, if the main occupation involves MA, that person is not a hobbyist.

I think the more intense practitioners like to call the less intence one's "hobyists" to make distinction.
That doesn't mean they are correct. :D

If you want to train hard, you have to make it a life style or you get hurt.
What do you mean by this? :confused:
The harder and longer you train, the more it becomes a part of your life. If you train correctly in addition to hard and a lot, you get the best results: the martial arts become part of you. Where I can see someone getting hurt is if you take out the "correctly" part. Besides not achieving the results I mentioned, it can lead to injury (depending on what kind of incorrect stuff is being done).

If it's just for fitness, it can be a side thing, less of an impact in your out-of-the-gym/kwoon time. Sometimes it is ment as an insult, but usually not. It's a statment of fact.
How can it be a statement of fact if they're not using the correct definition?

If you want to play hard, you must train 3-4 hours a day, most days of the week on top of the time spent at the kwoon. You in effect train as hard as a pro might. You just don't get paid to fight.
Once again, isn't that person still a hobbyist? :D

[PangQuan]

I agree with this. You can be a "lifer" without beinga profecianal.

hehe

is that a freudian slip or are you just funny? Profecianal

[SevenStar]

if the term offends you, perhaps it's because it describes you. As was once said, "What's in a name?"

[street_fighter]

f*** definitions. the term is USED to describe the not so "hardcore" guys whos existence in the MA world is ever prevalent. you can't look up a definition and then tell everyone that, based on the definition, they were saying something that they didnt' intend to. alittle pointless imo

[PangQuan]

i usually just call those guys Douche Bags....but to be more modernized i have adapted the term Douch Nozzle....

[tattooedmonk]

Does not neccesarilly mean your job. It could mean something that occupies a large amount of time and effort. As for the Xia he has yet to post himself doing any type of training, forms, and/ or as to what his backround in the martial arts is. I have asked him on many occasions and he avoids the questions . He is a keyboard martial artist who spends way too much time on this forum acting like he is the foremost authority in CMA. Anyone can sit on line, do research, read books , learn all that they can about martial arts, but until you get involved you are still just a keyboard martial artist. I also think that the xia has taken the word alittle too literal. Many words can be used to define or discribe persons , places , or things which are just on the outside of what the common known definition is....so basically you are just all butt hurt because you are exactly what most people on this forum believes the definition means.

[cruz]

i know this is going of the subject but i wanted to ask this .i have a freind who is a pretty good martial artist thats all he thinks about and does .anyways he even wears clothes that are kinda kungfu style .like he wont wear jeans or certain shirts .hes always woried about his movement that to make sure that what he wears allows that movement .like he looks like hes always ready to teach a class realy looks the part i try to tell him some times he looks like a old man or a fool what do you guys think

[Judge Pen]

Does not neccesarilly mean your job. It could mean something that occupies a large amount of time and effort. As for the Xia he has yet to post himself doing any type of training, forms, and/ or as to what his backround in the martial arts is. I have asked him on many occasions and he avoids the questions . He is a keyboard martial artist who spends way too much time on this forum acting like he is the foremost authority in CMA. Anyone can sit on line, do research, read books , learn all that they can about martial arts, but until you get involved you are still just a keyboard martial artist. I also think that the xia has taken the word alittle too literal. Many words can be used to define or discribe persons , places , or things which are just on the outside of what the common known definition is....so basically you are just all butt hurt because you are exactly what most people on this forum believes the definition means.

I missed your posts of you doing your training or forms. Where is the link? That would be interesting to see.

[golden arhat]

So why is "hobbyist" used that way?

becaus y is a crooked letter and u cant make it straight


no


maybe its just because its the most recognised popular and to the point definition
around

so therefore ppl use it because tho while not technically correct makes discussin martial arts that little bit easier

[golden arhat]

i know this is going of the subject but i wanted to ask this .i have a freind who is a pretty good martial artist thats all he thinks about and does .anyways he even wears clothes that are kinda kungfu style .like he wont wear jeans or certain shirts .hes always woried about his movement that to make sure that what he wears allows that movement .like he looks like hes always ready to teach a class realy looks the part i try to tell him some times he looks like a old man or a fool what do you guys think

i'm OBSESSED WITH MARTIAL ARTS

no joke
but i dont wear kung fu clothes etc martial arts should fit into modern life
not hinder it (as wearing that type of clothing normally certainly would cost almost anyone socially)

tell him to grow up and stop living in a fantasy world

tell him to practise like the devil but not be an idiot


lol

[golden arhat]

f*** definitions. the term is USED to describe the not so "hardcore" guys whos existence in the MA world is ever prevalent. you can't look up a definition and then tell everyone that, based on the definition, they were saying something that they didnt' intend to. alittle pointless imo

agreed



fred

[golden arhat]

the term is used to distinguish recreational people from the more serious ones. By serious, I mean people who compete heavily, people who need MA due to their occupation, be it pro fighter, bouncer, cop, etc.

or just ordinary citizen that gets in to fights

[golden arhat]

Does not neccesarilly mean your job. It could mean something that occupies a large amount of time and effort. As for the Xia he has yet to post himself doing any type of training, forms, and/ or as to what his backround in the martial arts is. I have asked him on many occasions and he avoids the questions . He is a keyboard martial artist who spends way too much time on this forum acting like he is the foremost authority in CMA. Anyone can sit on line, do research, read books , learn all that they can about martial arts, but until you get involved you are still just a keyboard martial artist. I also think that the xia has taken the word alittle too literal. Many words can be used to define or discribe persons , places , or things which are just on the outside of what the common known definition is....so basically you are just all butt hurt because you are exactly what most people on this forum believes the definition means.

yeah actually thats a good pont
i dont know **** all about the xia
no style
no back ground
nothing

??????????????????:confused:

[GeneChing]

Speaking of hobbies like stamp collecting, read How Good Is Your Philatelic Kung Fu? (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=1148) by Emilio Alpanseque

[bawang]

kung fu hobbyists are like those airsoft rifle enthusiasts.

[David Jamieson]

You either practice Kung Fu or you don't.
Hobbyist?

It's not model building. lol

So it's higher up if you make money from it? Really?

Whoever is diminishing others based on their own insecurity is lame of mind in my opinion.
There's all kinds of people who are into martial arts. For all kinds of reasons.
Stick to your own thing and you'll do a lot better than whining about someone elses practice.
Criticism is one thing, frauds are another, but vague judgement calls on a wide swath of people without any knowledge of what they do, who they are etc?
That's just goofy.

[bawang]

of course kung fu hobbyism exists. its a state of mind of disrespectfulness and light heartedness. when someone train kung fu for "amusement", its hobbyism.

can be cured with sparring

[SPJ]

1. amateur vs pro

a. if you compete regularly and train to compete

b. if you use MA in your duty or job

You are a pro.

Otherwise, we are amateur or non pro.

2. Hobby ist

is an enthusiast, learn and collect

but not necessarily use MA in the ring or daily job or duty.

3. Wow

an old thread returned.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bv_5IBPVuo

A nice french TV series.

[Songshan]

Funny no one mentioned training martial arts/kung Fu for health. I wouldn't classify that as a hobby but a way of life.

[GeneChing]

Martial arts are just fashionable hobbies now, warns Hong Kong's kung fu-loving finance chief (http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1857917/martial-arts-mastery-risk-financial-secretary)
PUBLISHED : Monday, 14 September, 2015, 5:13am
UPDATED : Monday, 14 September, 2015, 8:51am
Vivienne Chow vivienne.chow@scmp.com

http://cdn1.scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/486x302/public/2015/09/14/scmp_24aug15_ns_johntsang4_sam_3188_52156699.jpg?i tok=FaOvCdI7
John Tsang studied kung fu at a young age. Photo: Sam Tsang

True mastery of the martial arts is fading as people today fail to fully appreciate their principles, the financial secretary said as he recalled his kung fu memories.

In a blog post published yesterday, John Tsang Chun-wah described his recent encounter with the city’s leading kung fu figures including Pak Mei kung fu master Li Shek-lin, Tung Kong Chow Ka Preying Mantis Li Tinloi, Hung Kuen master Lam Chun-fai and his disciple Hing Chao, who founded the International Guoshu Association.

The blog was posted prior to next week’s opening of the Hong Kong Culture Festival, organised by Chao’s charity Earthpulse Foundation.

Tsang, who studied kung fu at a young age, said historically martial arts were about making a living or even survival, but today they had become a hobby and viewed as fashionable.

“Master Li Tin-loi said, ‘in the past, people only asked you which school of kung fu you practised. But today, people ask you how many forms you can perform. It seems the more you know, the better’,” Tsang wrote.

He said Rome wasn’t built in a day and that despite kung fu’s different forms, the basic training was more or less the same.

Tsang said there was nothing fancy about the daily drills one must perform to hone one’s skills. He revealed that his strenuous practice had left him with scars on his arms that only recently healed.

Yet he maintained that “boring” training could yield surprising results.

Tsang said he once witnessed an old master shattering a tiny olive seed with nothing but the tip of a rod.

The three-week culture festival, running from September 25 to October 18, aims to serve as a wake-up call to the government and public to preserve local living heritage, including kung fu, Cantonese opera and ink art.

This article appeared in the South China Morning Post print edition as Martial arts mastery at risk: financial secretary

I've never had an issue with 'hobbyists'. I have more of an issue with neurotic martial artists who have issues with hobbyists. Honestly, what other pursuit has issues with hobbyists? Do artistic painters criticize those who paint as a hobby? Of course not. They know that it's those hobbyists that buy the bulk of the materials, feeding the economy so their paints aren't exorbitant.

[Jimbo]

I've never had an issue with 'hobbyists'. I have more of an issue with neurotic martial artists who have issues with hobbyists. Honestly, what other pursuit has issues with hobbyists? Do artistic painters criticize those who paint as a hobby? Of course not. They know that it's those hobbyists that buy the bulk of the materials, feeding the economy so their paints aren't exorbitant.

People do things for different reasons, and IMO there's nothing wrong with that. As long as whatever school you join is in line with whatever your goals are, it's all good.

Although I think he's a little late with his observations. Is Kung fu even fashionable among young people in Hong Kong theses days? It sounds like some of his comments could have come from the 70s.

[boxerbilly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwBKjK7Xik0

[MightyB]

Oh sweet, this necro thread gives me an opportunity to quote Gene... as an author of a book!!! :eek:


Zhang Lipeng, an ex-monk who went by the Shaolin moniker Shi Xingpeng, once told me this: "There are two ways to practice real kung fu. One is after someone kills your wife. Two is after someone kills your whole family. Either way, you practice one set, every day, for ten years. Then you are ready to take revenge. Today, nobody practices like this. It makes no sense. Just get a gun." -Ching, Gene "Shaolin Trips" p 43



So by this definition, pretty much everyone is a hobbyist.

[bawang]

shi pengpeng has made a fatal error. he assumed that the average dengfeng kung fu factory school nongming graduate can actually find a wife to lose instead of having to visit prostitutes

[-N-]

But seriously, did he really mean training a set for 10 years was good preparation for taking revenge(killing the other guy)?

[GeneChing]

I suppose it's a sorry attempt to elevate ourselves. That's usually at the heart of any put down.


Oh sweet, this necro thread gives me an opportunity to quote Gene... as an author of a book!!! :eek:

-Ching, Gene "Shaolin Trips" p 43

So by this definition, pretty much everyone is a hobbyist.

Zhang Lipeng was our 2002 Shaolin Special (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=144) cover master. He's an old friend although I've not been in touch with him in several years.

[mickey]

Greetings,

I am not too crazy about hobbyists: to teach them is like taking a p!ss in the wind. Even then, they are the ones who keep the bills paid. If any of you have noticed there is a push toward having a more social component to MA schools: birthday parties, barbecues, and even weddings. So, as long as they are paying the bills, the hardcore guys have a place to train and develop. China was no different. There were students and there were disciples. Unfortunately, we do not think of disciples as hardcore; but, they were the hardcore of the times.

I think I posted something similar to this before. Well, I AM POSTING IT AGAIN!!!


mickey

[David Jamieson]

these days, I take the more yoda approach,


IE: you either practice, or you don't.

[MightyB]

These days I'm finding more joy in doing and not caring about what everyone else thinks.

[bawang]

i am a hobbyist and i am proud.

*rub nose

brb desecrating 5000 years of glorious chinese cultur

[MightyB]

i am a hobbyist and i am proud.

*rub nose

brb desecrating 5000 years of glorious chinese cultur

I'm not sure how being realistic is desecrating a culture because, technically I don't think anyone can claim anything other than being a Chinese Martial Arts hobbyist unless they're wearing full-armor, riding a horse, and shooting arrows at the charging horde of similarly armed adversaries.
---
Being a hobbyist doesn't mean that you don't take your chosen martial art seriously. You can be serious in your training, pay attention to all the details, develop jing, and develop the skills that would be necessary to defend yourself--- being realistic just means that you realize that there's not a lot of need to fist-fight. A better goal is seeing and realizing that TCMA is a key to give you something incredibly valuable:

https://www.facebook.com/britishshaolintemple/videos/997499590293788/?pnref=story

*most of the tough competitive Judoka that I knew that lived to the above guy's age all had some type of mobility issue - canes, braces, hunched limped walking, etc.

They sure as heck weren't moving like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ_DSsyEiPY

[GeneChing]

Hobbyist on Dictionary.com directs us to:


hobby (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hobbyist)
[hob-ee]

Examples
Word Origin

noun, plural hobbies.
1.
an activity or interest pursued for pleasure or relaxation and not as a main occupation:
Her hobbies include stamp-collecting and woodcarving.

So if you're not making your living in the martial arts, you're a hobbyist. I guess I'm not a hobbyist. :p



So by this definition, pretty much everyone is a hobbyist.

[bawang]

I'm not sure how being realistic is desecrating a culture because, technically I don't think anyone can claim anything other than being a Chinese Martial Arts hobbyist unless they're wearing full-armor, riding a horse, and shooting arrows at the charging horde of similarly armed adversaries.
---
Being a hobbyist doesn't mean that you don't take your chosen martial art seriously. You can be serious in your training, pay attention to all the details, develop jing, and develop the skills that would be necessary to defend yourself--- being realistic just means that you realize that there's not a lot of need to fist-fight. A better goal is seeing and realizing that TCMA is a key to give you something incredibly valuable:

https://www.facebook.com/britishshaolintemple/videos/997499590293788/?pnref=story

*most of the tough competitive Judoka that I knew that lived to the above guy's age all had some type of mobility issue - canes, braces, hunched limped walking, etc.

They sure as heck weren't moving like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ_DSsyEiPY


chill jabroni i am a hobbitist myself for reals.

kung fu does have more hobbyist members that dont take it seriously. its a fact of life. firstly kung fu has been marketed for a long time as weird whacky fun. it thus attracts that type of people who want that. secondly kung fu is also viewed as feminine deviant anti masculinity. thus attracts people who want that.

chinese masculine theme in kung fu (combat + fitness + confucius ) doesnot fit racial narrative and expectation from society. black brothers are more successful in kung fu because they can overcome the mental barriers more easily.

when you see students doing form stiffly awkwardly, and giggling at teacher explaining concepts, that is the mental barrier at work.

[MarathonTmatt]

when you see students doing form stiffly awkwardly, and giggling at teacher explaining concepts, that is the mental barrier at work.

Thank you for saying that. After/ during training with my first teacher, Dr. Aihan from Changsha (tai chi style) the long fist school I later trained in had this element. In my first teacher's school (Aihan Kuhn) there was absolutely no room for such nonsense, and someone with that attitude would not have been able to of put up with the training. however, the long fist school was tailored to westerners- to be honest i was put off by the attitudes of some of the other students who, as u describe were stiff, awkward and giggly. some of the students there longer than me didn't even seem to be able to grasp some fundamentals. however i liked the teachers (as well as others) and the training, and am glad i stuck with it, i grew my skills and have nothing but gratitude for my teachers/ training at the school.

idk if i classify as a hobbyist or not to be honest. either way i am not bothered by it. i grew up and live in the sticks. im a former marathon runner and athletic and was never a couch potato. my dad always put me to work. out of my other brothers, it seems i was always the one who was around/ available for work the most. i also worked at the horse farm the other end of the block. i would rather spend a day out in the woods than go shopping or be seen in some metropolis. when i have been challenged to a fight a couple times within the last few years i have come out on top.... but this list includes a drunken instigator and one other challenge, the kid was quick, got me on the defensive at first but then i became the aggressor and wore him down quick. i have experience sparring in class but have never done a full contact competition match (edit: against an actively training skilled fighter). i would also have to agree with some of mightyb's points.

[Jimbo]

In the early 2000's I decided I wanted to teach, and held my own CLF classes for 4 years. During that time I came to realize that, while I understand my art and was able to effectively transmit it to my students, I wasn't comfortable as a MA teacher. I was not comfortable with the self-promotion and business aspects of it; in fact, I sucked at it. I'm fine doing other things for business, but for most of my life MA was a BIG part of it; an obsession, actually. When it became a business for me, I wasn't enjoying it anymore. Plus, I already have a career outside of MA. It was a second job, not to mention my other responsibilities and goals. It left me little room for a life.

If you teach...not just amuse people by teaching some forms, but seriously impart your art in a responsible way...it is work. It's a job. If I choose to do something, I put my heart into it, and if I don't feel I can give it my all, or if I don't feel a perfect fit for it, I let it go. I approved my students who still wanted to train to other teachers.

I respect all the truly serious and ethical MA teachers out there who do teach professionally or privately, for without them, I wouldn't have learned my MAs. But being a professional MAist just wasn't for me. I like the freedom of being a perpetual practitioner/student too much. So I guess that makes me a hobbyist, and I'm fine with that. I sacrificed and bled a lot for this hobby, and after around 40 years of being into this stuff, I couldn't care less what labels someone else might attach to it.

[mickey]

Greetings,

Aside from the definition, my idea of a hobbyist is one who does not take the traditions seriously. They are those who do not practice outside the training hall,. They forget what they have been taught. They show up when they feel like it and expect to be catered to when they do show up. They enjoy the social milieu. And they are conspicuously absent when it is time for testing or demonstrations: they are more likely to say that they have to leave town or address a family emergency.

The opposite of that is the practitioner. And I think most of us have been that.


mickey

[Jimbo]

mickey,

That description of a hobbyist is better called a dabbler, or a dilettante. Of course, there's a lot of those. Any teacher or lifelong practitioner has seen hundreds of them. The worst type are the ones who claim they'll be the best student, better than all the ones already training, before their own first practice session. Without exception, this type always makes the worst, laziest students who (thankfully) never stick around long.

I would not consider this type a hobbyist. For something to be your hobby, you should have at least a semblance of interest in it.

[mickey]

Greetings Jimbo,

Dabbler definitely is the better word.

Thank you,

mickey

[Kellen Bassette]

chinese masculine theme in kung fu (combat + fitness + confucius ) doesnot fit racial narrative and expectation from society. black brothers are more successful in kung fu because they can overcome the mental barriers more easily.

when you see students doing form stiffly awkwardly, and giggling at teacher explaining concepts, that is the mental barrier at work.

Strangely, I and others I know have also found that to be true. A lot of the better kung fu men seem to be black guys...

[Jimbo]

Strangely, I and others I know have also found that to be true. A lot of the better kung fu men seem to be black guys...

Not really so strange. That's true not only in Kung Fu, but also in Kenpo/Karate/TKD, boxing, MT, MMA, football, etc., etc. Although I get the impression that with the younger generation of African-Americans, interest in Kung Fu is not at the level it was back in the 1970s and 80s. but maybe it's different in other areas.

[SteveLau]

A good topic indeed.

The definition of the word, hobby, in the first post fits my bill. It is a problem of proper use of word. And IMHO, the problem is caused by the definition of fun. People just do not have consensus of what is fun. Back to the word hobby, I have been training martial art for over 40 years, and have never treated training it as one.



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[sanjuro_ronin]

I don't do MA as a job or to fight anymore.
Been there done that.
Now It do it for the pleasure and for the development of it.
I think we go through phases in our MA lifetime and that is the phase I am at right now.
I don't think of it is a hobby simply because I view a hobby as something non-physical and MA is most certainly physical.
This October it will be the 37th anniversary of me starting MA.

[David Jamieson]

I would add that if you integrate your practice into your lifestyle, whatever it may be, then it's not a hobby. it's part of your routine.
For instance, is eating breakfast a hobby? Doing laundry? Keeping good hygiene? Staying fit and healthy?

So, that kind of puts the kibosh on the black or white idea of what martial arts practice is.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I would add that if you integrate your practice into your lifestyle, whatever it may be, then it's not a hobby. it's part of your routine.
For instance, is eating breakfast a hobby? Doing laundry? Keeping good hygiene? Staying fit and healthy?

So, that kind of puts the kibosh on the black or white idea of what martial arts practice is.

Very good point.

[PalmStriker]

:)Don't forget to include the collector's syndrome in the hobby aspect of martial arts mania. People get into all sorts of things for various reasons, sometimes because they like to acquire paraphernalia that endears them to their pursuit with the identification of, and being identified by others as being part of that "thing". Personally, I never have been a collector of anything but know people who collect material things as if possessed to do so. :D:confused::D Not passing judgement, but at the same time feeling no urge to do this myself, I would say this is definitely the most noticeable "hobbyextension". One can say "Oh, it's an investment" but that is not what drives this psychological behavioral pattern.

[MightyB]

black brothers are more successful in kung fu because they can overcome the mental barriers more easily.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwxMDTdLq4c