hands and feet of wing chun

[tattooedmonk]

What are the names and short descriptions of the punches , blocks , stances and kicks in wing chun?? If there is already a thread and/ or a list where I can find them I would really appreciate it if someone could point me in the right direction. Thank you.

[Dan_chi_sau]

hey monk,
just wondering where you're going with this list. Seems a bit pointless unless you're gonna invest time in the system. Just because someone says 'this is a tan sau, this is what it does', doesnt give you much to work with and after a while you'd probably just think 'i cant see how this works, wing chun is rubbish'. I've seen it happen. Wing chun is all about learning, unlearning and understanding. Theres a lot of feeling going on too. There is a saying somewhere that goes 'when someone practices the first form, you can only see 50% (if that in my opinion) of whats actually happening'. Sorry to be down on your thread, i just wonder where its leading you. Or to put it another way, you could come to my house, and i could give you a drum set and a set of sticks, and tell you all about how it works, but would it make you a drummer?.........

[OdderMensch]

Has a good list of "names" with Translation. Names vary from school to school and lineage to lineage.

[Mr Punch]

hey monk,
just wondering where you're going with this list. Seems a bit pointless unless you're gonna invest time in the system. Just because someone says 'this is a tan sau, this is what it does', doesnt give you much to work with and after a while you'd probably just think 'i cant see how this works, wing chun is rubbish'. I've seen it happen. Wing chun is all about learning, unlearning and understanding. Theres a lot of feeling going on too. There is a saying somewhere that goes 'when someone practices the first form, you can only see 50% (if that in my opinion) of whats actually happening'. Sorry to be down on your thread, i just wonder where its leading you. Or to put it another way, you could come to my house, and i could give you a drum set and a set of sticks, and tell you all about how it works, but would it make you a drummer?.........Maybe he just wants to compare the names with another style/dialect...

What's with the guessing game!?

[shrugs]

Monk, try wingchunken.com (I think that's Rene Richie's site....?). It has loads of those kind of lists for the differetn lineages of chun.

[tattooedmonk]

like the different forearm blocks , for instance, the outside forearm block or inside forearm block or the crossed forearm block or the inverted elbow block.

[k gledhill]

tan-jum-bong....inverted elbow ?

[tattooedmonk]

tan-jum-bong....inverted elbow ? yeah, you know where the arm is turned 90'0 downwards( inverted), fingers toward the ground, elbow to the sky, and you are blocking with your forearm. Like a chicken wing. I know it by many names but I would like to know what the most common term is for this technique and some variations. Thank you.

[k gledhill]

that 'sounds' like bong sao = elbow up aka wing arm.... for regaining an attackling line when an arm has xed our bridge by raising then ...we sink the elbow as we hit with vu sao...:D

[Liddel]

yeah, you know where the arm is turned 90'0 downwards( inverted), fingers toward the ground, elbow to the sky, and you are blocking with your forearm. Like a chicken wing. I know it by many names but I would like to know what the most common term is for this technique and some variations. Thank you.

Could be refering to - Kao Sao - which is normally practised in forms with the addition of another hand. Almost like a more open and reversed (touch point) Bong Sao and upper Guarn.
Heres what it looks like.... / > .... :p

If you search for vids of the wooden dummy forms you should see it present in most Lineages.

DREW

[k gledhill]

like the different forearm blocks , for instance, the outside forearm block or inside forearm block or the crossed forearm block or the inverted elbow block.


whats in a name ?

just a BTW the arms dont 'block' off the centerline as a karate/taekwondo action[ not that thats wrong bad etc, just not how vt does it] . The idea is that the arm is training doing tan/jum/etc...in a systematic process to develop a unique ability to vt of simply punching and achieving 2actions per 1 punch, using the arm/bridge -forearms sides to 'deflect and hit' while aiming forwards, using a concept of lin sil di da , often through certain basic level actions in the learning curve of vt it is erroneously percieved as using 2 arms like a 'karate/taekwondo ' action only done togeteher as the translation can be interpreted , instead of alternating individual arms [ doing 2 actions per punch] in freelow fighting...along a centerline. Often interpreted as 2 ARMS doing attack & defense and not 1arm doing 2 ations
.....names tend to be misleading due to a translation factor...like tan sao means palm up , but the palms position is only a reference not a required position during the free fight..as jum is a name to infer maintaining the inside energy of the arm as it hits across a line of force aka an incoming punch....by hearing an interpretation on a theme one can end up trying to use the positions during a fight that work like any good karate or taekwondo action but arent developing the ultimate goal of vt.

vusao can be translated to a word/s but has a much larger impact in the attack process and if described as a 'protecting ' hand it might never be seen as the way to maintain an 'attacking & defensive hand '

senk sao aka tut sao or shaving hands is often and erroneously thought of by some as a wrist grab removal because we look for 'application' not conceptual training of maintaining a free attacking hand. Its lowered aimed fingers make some belive its aimed low in action :D
So a 'name' for an abstract arm shape is kind of confusing unless you have a goal in mind ...you might see a shape give it a name and feel compelled to use that shape/name, while engaging in a activity that requires anything but static shapes and names, or 'statue' one move 'pose' responses :D

some moves leave the center but you will find them in bil gee , or moves placed in slt from bil gee

All the names boil down to 'great shocking force' or 'big spring' or 'large jolting force' or 'ging force' , large ging aka as beautiful springtime or evergreen / continous spring :D or even Ving Tsun ;) or even ging chun kung fu....continous attacks using explosive actions.... relentless forward attack using ging force ;)

names can be misleading

[tattooedmonk]

whats in a name ?

just a BTW the arms dont 'block' off the centerline as a karate/taekwondo action[ not that thats wrong bad etc, just not how vt does it] . The idea is that the arm is training doing tan/jum/etc...in a systematic process to develop a unique ability to vt of simply punching and achieving 2actions per 1 punch, using the arm/bridge -forearms sides to 'deflect and hit' while aiming forwards, using a concept of lin sil di da , often through certain basic level actions in the learning curve of vt it is erroneously percieved as using 2 arms like a 'karate/taekwondo ' action only done togeteher as the translation can be interpreted , instead of alternating individual arms [ doing 2 actions per punch] in freelow fighting...along a centerline. Often interpreted as 2 ARMS doing attack & defense and not 1arm doing 2 ations
.....names tend to be misleading due to a translation factor...like tan sao means palm up , but the palms position is only a reference not a required position during the free fight..as jum is a name to infer maintaining the inside energy of the arm as it hits across a line of force aka an incoming punch....by hearing an interpretation on a theme one can end up trying to use the positions during a fight that work like any good karate or taekwondo action but arent developing the ultimate goal of vt.

vusao can be translated to a word/s but has a much larger impact in the attack process and if described as a 'protecting ' hand it might never be seen as the way to maintain an 'attacking & defensive hand '

senk sao aka shaving hands is often and erroneously thought of by some as a wrist grab removal because we look for 'application' not conceptual training of maintaining a free attacking hand. Its lowered aimed fingers make some belive its aimed low in action :D
So a 'name' for an abstract arm shape is kind of confusing unless you have a goal in mind ...you might see a shape give it a name and feel compelled to use that shape/name, while engaging in a activity that requires anything but static shapes and names, or 'statue' one move 'pose' responses :D

some moves leave the center but you will find them in bil gee , or moves placed in slt from bil gee

All the names boil down to 'great shocking force' or 'big spring' or 'large jolting force' or 'ging force' , large ging aka as beautiful springtime or evergreen / continous spring :D or even Ving Tsun ;) or even ging chun kung fu....continous attacks using explosive actions.... relentless forward attack using ging force ;)

names can be misleading
Thank you . You see my problem is I learned all the forms with English translations and not any Chinese. It really sux because I would like to teach it using Chinese . I have some of the names but most I have had to use words that I have lready know from other CMA styles I have studied.

[k gledhill]

gotcha...hope it helps.;)

[Vajramusti]

http://www.fongswingchun.com/terms.html

Check the fairly comprehensive list of terms at the above Augustine Fong link. Different lineages will have variations in vocabulary and spelling.
Hope it helps... but you cant learn or teach wing chun by just knowing labels.
Good luck.

joy chaudhuri

[tattooedmonk]

gotcha...hope it helps.;)Thank you , for the PM's as well.

[tattooedmonk]

http://www.fongswingchun.com/terms.html

Check the fairly comprehensive list of terms at the above Augustine Fong link. Different lineages will have variations in vocabulary and spelling.
Hope it helps... but you cant learn or teach wing chun by just knowing labels.
Good luck.

joy chaudhuriThank you , I understand that I can not teach it by knowing the names alone . I studied with a guy that refused to use the Chinese names . He was really good but would not teach them to me. I just think he forgot or something.:rolleyes:

[Lugoman]

Here's a visual representation of 18 WC techniques.

http://www.springtimesong.com/wchands2.htm

[tattooedmonk]

Here's a visual representation of 18 WC techniques.

http://www.springtimesong.com/wchands2.htm Perfect, thanx!!

Now I am familiar with the protractor effect , but is there anything you can recommend ,as far as reading material, about this ??

[Lugoman]

Perfect, thanx!!

Now I am familiar with the protractor effect , but is there anything you can recommend ,as far as reading material, about this ??


Sorry, but no.

I'm very new to this art.

[Vajramusti]

Good call. Right attitude.

The blind leading the blind unfortunately happens often enough on the net.

joy chaudhuri

[Vajramusti]

PS.. IMO- its best to get a competent teacher in wing chun or another good martial art. Wing chun is not about fixed shapes anyway.

joy chaudhuri

[Lugoman]

Good call. Right attitude.

The blind leading the blind unfortunately happens often enough on the net.


Thanks,

I can see just fine, but I just don't know where I'm at. :D


PS.. IMO- its best to get a competent teacher in wing chun or another good martial art. Wing chun is not about fixed shapes anyway.

joy chaudhuri

Was that for me?

I do have a very competent teacher, I'm just trying my best to be a competent student.

[Vajramusti]

Not for you.
A general statement.
OK-understood

joy chaudhuri

[tattooedmonk]

What about the protractor effect?? I have read your articles and they are very informing. I enjoyed them very much.
How about talking about the stepping and the foot work??

[Vajramusti]

Lugoman said that he had a teacher. You said earlier that you used to have a wing chun teacher. I dont know for how long or who. In any case- the net as a medium has problems with prolonged and clear conversations- "listening" is a problem amidst the noise..
The 18 hands pictures of wing chun "techniques" are ok for matching words with very rough shapes-but to me are not very helpful in explaining the dynamics and an art where correct touch,energy, line, position, distance and timing among other things are pretty important. Thus the "jum sao" illustration is way off- looks like a bad wu sao.
Good two handed jum sao in the sil lim tao is a very useful developmental tool.
Applications will vary.
Good wing chun is full of footwork and one can take lots of time in showing, learning and practicing the footwork and developing the skills related to it.
But if the entire structure is poor, footwork by itself can't save you, unless you can run away fast. Wing chun footwork is unique and different from boxing, taichi and much of other TCMAS.If the full structure is good and the hands are trained and ready---good footwork can help you saw through an opponents defense or take care of an attack. Balance is always important and both knees should generally be working together.
I would be happy to show you these things in person but then I stay quite busy and live in hot hot Tempe in the Phoenix metro ,apparently far from where you are.
BTW I enjoyed one of your forum posts where I think you touched on some common things in southern hands, though there are significant differences..
The chum kiu, biu jee, mook jong, the kwan and the do are loaded with footwork.
Watch the feet of those doing them well.

joy chaudhuri

[Matrix]

The 18 hands pictures of wing chun "techniques" are ok for matching words with very rough shapes-but to me are not very helpful in explaining the dynamics and an art where correct touch,energy, line, position, distance and timing among other things are pretty important. Thus the "jum sao" illustration is way off- looks like a bad wu sao.Joy,
When I first saw the 18 hands pictures, I immediately saw them as static poses that seemed to be lifeless. Of course they are, they are just still pictures. :) For all the reasons that you have so clearly indicated, I think these images offer limited information and in some cases mis-information, which is even worse.
The only instance in which I think these images may be somewhat useful is for rare case where someone already knows Wing Chun but for some reason doesn't know the terminology.

[Vajramusti]

Agreed- misleading statics- may help some with terminology- not with understanding dynamics.
joy chaudhuri