The Fook-Sao

[Lugoman]

How is it applied or used in your lineage, style, what have you?

[t_niehoff]

How is it applied or used in your lineage, style, what have you?

From my perspective, fook sao is to control the opponent's bridges (hence the term: controlling hand).

[YungChun]

It's also the 'high hand' in that it normally resides on top of the opponent's, sometimes called the 'covering hand'...

Most of these positions are transitory and only last an instant before converting to, a "clinch" :rolleyes: LMFAO...! Or something else, say from WCK if you are so inclined.. :cool:

[t_niehoff]

It's also the 'high hand' in that it normally resides on top of the opponent's, sometimes called the 'covering hand'...


It's called all kinds of things, but I think "fook" is properly translated as controlling (man standing over dog). It "resides" on top since it is difficult to control from other positions.



Most of these positions are transitory and only last an instant before converting to, a "clinch" :rolleyes: LMFAO...! Or something else, say from WCK if you are so inclined.. :cool:

Yes, they are all transitory. From my POV, a fook sao is an aspect of a clinch.

[YungChun]

It's called all kinds of things, but I think "fook" is properly translated as controlling (man standing over dog). It "resides" on top since it is difficult to control from other positions.


That's great. :confused:

Fook is the high hand which may cover.. Tan is low, or under and does not cover.

[t_niehoff]

That's great. :confused:

Fook is the high hand which may cover.. Tan is low, or under and does not cover.

Yes, but it does more than "cover" - it controls (covering is part of control). Tan spreads and also "covers".

[Dan_chi_sau]

hey all, I've heard somewhere that fuk/fook can be translated as 'to prostrate', to bend down/over. Just another take on the ideas here. One could take the thought that if a fuk keeps its structure over a strike, then this structure should cause the opponent to 'bend over' and forwards as their energy is redirected downwards.
Also have to ask for some clarification over this comment

'Fook is the high hand which may cover.. Tan is low, or under and does not cover.' from yung chun.
Just a quick question, if your tan does not cover, then what is its purpose? Just think i may of misinterpreted your words. The way i see it, everything covers on its way to the target, if not you got holes and you're gonna get hit. But then I've seen a few different tans, and many different uses.
Also, 'under'? How so and why?I just kinda see tan more of a 'through and hit', without getting long winded about it. But then this is also open to your own interpretations of the word 'cover'.
It may mean to cover an area or a gate, but it could also be seen to physically 'cover' an opponents limb/strike. Its all open to a persons viewpoint.

[YungChun]

Also, 'under'? How so and why?I just kinda see tan more of a 'through and hit', without getting long winded about it. But then this is also open to your own interpretations of the word 'cover'.
It may mean to cover an area or a gate, but it could also be seen to physically 'cover' an opponents limb/strike. Its all open to a persons viewpoint.

Regardless of how many exceptions and semantic juxtapositions of labels there are to these tools.. Fook is traditionally the 'high hand' it *rides* on the Tan and Bong.. It can cover 'trap' Tan and/or trap both the opponent's hands, as in 'one hand covers two'...

While Tan can certainly take the line from Fook I would not call it covering since it is normally under the Fook.. and more often than not Tan takes the inside line and fook takes the outside line.. Also, none of these positions IMO 'stay' least of all Bong.. Meaning you more often would not just "Tan" in response to an attack, you would actually hit him with your Tan as it converts in the moment...

Only talking one hand there.. We are all aware of the infinite variation in use of tools and names for their use let's not attempt to iterate all possible combinations ...

[Liddel]

How is it applied or used in your lineage, style, what have you?

Fook Sao is a covering hand in my lineage. Its used to control your gate and/or opponents Bridge from a top position.

Its applied by bending the wrist up to and including a 90% angle ontop of the opponents forearm.

Our Fook Sao has three touch points of control when in contact.
1- The inside crook of your wrist (where your forearm meets the wrist)
2 - The little finger side of your palm.
3 - The Thumb side of your palm.

Ideally each point should stay in contact with the opponents bridge whilst applying the action.

My Fook Sao is supported by the shoulder and most importantly by the elbow, which should sink at a point anywhere between your center and the outside of your body.

Whilst applying the action we stress foward presure and most importantly relaxed fingers for easy transition to other actions such as Jum Sao, Pak Sao, Huen Sao, Pie Sao or the Punch.

How about you Lugoman ?

[Mr Punch]

Liddel pretty much covered it for me: mongrel Yip Man lineages... probably mostly Yip Chun and Victor Kam offshoot...???

And heaven forbid I'd want to p!ss off Yong Chun but it's also very useful for controlling the head and getting an elbow control on his centreline... which you could easily call a clinch...

The mechanics of this are similar to the control over an arm, but you need to really work your stances and footwork to drop your weight through his head without risk of overbalancing if he slips out, or being dragged forward.

It's also invaluable for fitting an extra plate on your arm whilst weighting tables, and pretty good for supporting a baby's head whilst carrying. :)

[Lugoman]

Fook Sao is a covering hand in my lineage. Its used to control your gate and/or opponents Bridge from a top position.

Its applied by bending the wrist up to and including a 90% angle ontop of the opponents forearm.

Our Fook Sao has three touch points of control when in contact.
1- The inside crook of your wrist (where your forearm meets the wrist)
2 - The little finger side of your palm.
3 - The Thumb side of your palm.

Ideally each point should stay in contact with the opponents bridge whilst applying the action.

My Fook Sao is supported by the shoulder and most importantly by the elbow, which should sink at a point anywhere between your center and the outside of your body.

Whilst applying the action we stress foward presure and most importantly relaxed fingers for easy transition to other actions such as Jum Sao, Pak Sao, Huen Sao, Pie Sao or the Punch.

How about you Lugoman ?

Pretty much how it's been described to me Mr. Liddel and Mr. Punch.

I ask because I met someone from another school from across the state and she says that "it's a used as a "brake" to provide friction if someone is trying to break through your gaurd,. "Nothing more complicated that that!"

She also does SLT kinda funny :)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for validation of my own style/school, etc. Not looking to invalidate another... I just like to hear how others do things because sometimes there's a better way than what we know IMHO.

[AmanuJRY]

It's also invaluable for fitting an extra plate on your arm whilst weighting tables, and pretty good for supporting a baby's head whilst carrying. :)

Dude, that's so a Taan Sau, not a Fook Sau.:cool::D

To me a Fook Sau is a 'catch all' for an outdoor position that isn't defined by another technique (like Jum Sau, or a Punch). It's action is forward, like a punch, rather than sinking, like a Jum Sau.

Probably my most used tech.

[AndrewS]

Fook smothers and covers, neutralizing and controlling by tying someone up. Once you have that control/contact, you can hit them on the other side with the other hand or more easily feel what the best option is to open them for a shot on that side- sink them down and crunch them forward (jum), a quick jerk and hit (jut), hook 'em out of the way (kao), or spread them open (gan). Any of those done without that initial 'fook' contact would be pawing air and tends to leave a big hole. Hence, fook is one of the three 'seed' techniques from which all else 'grow'

Andrew

[Phil Redmond]

Terence is correct. Fook, fuhk actullay means control, subdue in Cantonese. Many Chinese characters are composed of two characters. Like the character for Wing in WC.
It has a radical attached that means recite, speak, praise, etc., before the character Chun (forever). Weng Chun doesn't have that radical.
The character for fuhk is a man standing over, controlling a dog. But then again some people think that tan sau means palm up hand. It doesnt

I already speak Cantonese and I'm learning Mandarin right now from a Professor of Chinese ( who Is Chinese).
I showed him the character for fuhk (fu in Mandarin) and he confirmed that fuhk/fu means control/subdue to a Chinese reader. Fuhk controls the opponents arm by moving it from one side to the other.
PR

[AmanuJRY]

Terence is correct. Fook, fuhk actullay means control, subdue in Cantonese.


Think of the geological term 'subduction'. Fitting example of the Fook action.:cool:

In geology, a subduction zone is an area on Earth where two tectonic plates meet and move towards one another, with one sliding underneath the other and moving down into the mantle, at rates typically measured in centimeters per year. An oceanic plate ordinarily slides underneath a continental plate; this often creates an orogenic zone with many volcanoes and earthquakes. In a sense, subduction zones are the opposite of divergent boundaries, areas where material rises up from the mantle and plates are moving apart.- Wikipedia

[t_niehoff]

Think of the geological term 'subduction'. Fitting example of the Fook action.:cool:

In geology, a subduction zone is an area on Earth where two tectonic plates meet and move towards one another, with one sliding underneath the other and moving down into the mantle, at rates typically measured in centimeters per year. An oceanic plate ordinarily slides underneath a continental plate; this often creates an orogenic zone with many volcanoes and earthquakes. In a sense, subduction zones are the opposite of divergent boundaries, areas where material rises up from the mantle and plates are moving apart.- Wikipedia

Fook means to control (it's a verb, an action). There are many specific ways to achieve that control. If there is no control, there is no fook sao regardless of what youa re doing.

[canglong]

http://home.vtmuseum.org/terminology/characters.php?dfn=c&Ssearchfield=Cantonese+Spellings&SsearchFor=sau&Ssortfield=English+Translations&Sway=ASC&Slimit=20
Definition of Fuk sau,

Fuk Sau expressed and applied to my knowledge is best defined by character number 3.

[t_niehoff]

http://home.vtmuseum.org/terminology/characters.php?dfn=c&Ssearchfield=Cantonese+Spellings&SsearchFor=sau&Ssortfield=English+Translations&Sway=ASC&Slimit=20
Definition of Fuk sau,

Fuk Sau expressed and applied to my knowledge is best defined by character number 3.

I am not surprised.

[martyg]

Terence is correct. Fook, fuhk actullay means control, subdue in Cantonese. Many Chinese characters are composed of two characters. Like the character for Wing in WC.
It has a radical attached that means recite, speak, praise, etc., before the character Chun (forever). Weng Chun doesn't have that radical.
The character for fuhk is a man standing over, controlling a dog. But then again some people think that tan sau means palm up hand. It doesnt
PR


Phil - Thanks for sharing that, enjoy your insight as always. That's my understanding as well (to subdue).

Regarding the other posts, IMHO its defined more by what it's meant to accomplish than a position above/below or it's look/posture. I realize a great many people define it as an exact posture/positioning that drives (wedges) the opponent's force off of you, usually followed with jum, jut, or huen. I don't look at it as tying up, or wedging/stopping (which I believe the use of "control" would allude to), but rather you make make the incoming force useless (smothered but not stopped, if you will) which then allows you to "control" it. I.E. subdue. The seizing and subduing of the energy happens at contact, no "wedging" needed. Anything that occurs after the initial contact is secondary (i.e. in intent, and motion). The man over a dog is telling, as you are asserting your domination over the animal as a whole (watch a dog trainer some time), rather than literally doing something to the dog.