Attention Gene Ching, I got a question on Tibet

[diego]

"Tibet is the rooftop of the world. Although this sounds romantic, in truth, that soaring altitude is an extremely harsh environment that can barely sustain life. Tibetan people have to be incredibly tenacious just to survive in this barren landscape. This is reflected in Tibetan Buddhism, replete with horrific symbolism, of flayed skins, terrifying demons, flaming swords and grinning skulls. While westerners embrace the compassionate teachings of His Holiness the Dalai Lama, the complicated (and unpopular) back story is that, under Lama rule, Tibet was incredibly backward, with extreme poverty for the majority while the elite monk class enjoyed relative wealth. The monks were slave owners and by many accounts brutal warriors." Gene's quote

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=661

You caught my attention with this paragraph, but left me wondering:) Would you so kindly share all you know about tibetan warrior monks?.
Peace

[diego]

upping ttt

[HOKPAIWES]

http://www.case.edu/affil/tibet/booksAndPapers/Study%20of%20Ldab%20Ldob.pdf


I extremely am interested in the replys to this topic, recently I stumbled across this site linked above. I found it pretty dry at first but it was good reading and informative once it got really rolling.;) Aside from the stuff involving young boys the system was set up pretty cool, a bit of Tibetan gladiatorism so to speak.

[diego]

http://www.case.edu/affil/tibet/booksAndPapers/Study%20of%20Ldab%20Ldob.pdf


I extremely am interested in the replys to this topic, recently I stumbled across this site linked above. I found it pretty dry at first but it was good reading and informative once it got really rolling.;) Aside from the stuff involving young boys the system was set up pretty cool, a bit of Tibetan gladiatorism so to speak.

Thanks for the link

Gene, the crickets are getting vewy sweepyyy...:rolleyes:

[unkokusai]

"Tibet is the rooftop of the world. Although this sounds romantic, in truth, that soaring altitude is an extremely harsh environment that can barely sustain life.



That's for sure. When I was there back in '95 nearly half the tourists (Han and waigouren alike) dropped from altitude sickness within 12 hours of arrival.

[GeneChing]

Goldstein's paper is the best source for this info. Chris Heintzman (student of David Chin) had passed that along to me when I was working on the article. The ****sexual aspect is fascinating - something I seriously toyed with for the intro of that article but then decided it wouldn't fit that well.

I'm afraid my other sources are rather colloquial. One of my close personal friends went to Tibet to work on a photography book - he lived there for a spell and got to know some monks quite well. I consulted him for the intro to that article. Also, I used to do volunteer work with a woman that did some security work with the personal guard monks of the Dalai Lama. I've lost contact with her, but she had some very interesting observations. I didn't use anything from her because I didn't know her that well and I could never cross validate what she said. My only research beyond that was personal - mostly into Yamataka and Mahakala cults.

Please note that I mean no disrespect to the Dalai Lama, but the Tibetan monastic system can be very harsh. Most Americans don't know the half of it. Most don't want to know.

[unkokusai]

In related news, the PRC is planning on building a road up the side of Mt. Everest.

[GeneChing]

China to build highway up Everest (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/06/19/china.highway.ap/index.html?eref=rss_latest)
POSTED: 9:32 a.m. EDT, June 19, 2007

BEIJING, China (AP) -- China will build a $20 million blacktop highway on Mount Everest as part of the route for the Olympic torch relay, state media reported Tuesday.

Xinhua News Agency said the construction would turn a rough, 67-mile road stretching from the foot of the mountain to a base camp at 17,060 feet, into a paved "highway fenced by undulating guardrails."

Mount Everest, the world's tallest mountain, is 29,035 feet tall.

It said construction would start next week and would take about four months, and the new highway would become a major route for tourists and mountaineers.

In April, organizers for the Beijing 2008 Summer Olympics announced ambitious plans for the longest torch relay in Olympic history -- an 85,000-mile, 130-day route that would cross five continents and scale Mount Everest.

Taking the Olympic torch to the top of the mountain, seen by some as a way for Beijing to underscore its claims to Tibet, is expected to be one of the relay's highlights.

China says it has ruled Tibet for centuries, although many Tibetans say their homeland was essentially an independent state for most of that time. Chinese communist troops occupied Tibet in 1951 and Beijing continues to rule the region with a heavy hand.

Ever since building the great wall, China has loved tackling absurd structures.

[lkfmdc]

Tibetan history and culture is fascinating but sadly clouded by a desire to paint the people in nothing but positive light. Yes, they are currently oppressed and homeless, the Chinese do a lot of terrible things, but no one is served by white washing aspects of their traditional history and culture

[lkfmdc]

Ever since building the great wall, China has loved tackling absurd structures.

"tackling absurd structures"? sounds almost like trying to moderate this forum :D

[PangQuan]

"tackling absurd structures"? sounds almost like trying to moderate this forum :D

LOL!

Anywho, I saw this special on the train that goes from China(not sure what part) to Tibet.

Really crazy thought, highest altitude train on the planet...250,000 workers to do it, 4 years, and deaths...

[diego]

Goldstein's paper is the best source for this info. Chris Heintzman (student of David Chin) had passed that along to me when I was working on the article. The ****sexual aspect is fascinating - something I seriously toyed with for the intro of that article but then decided it wouldn't fit that well.

I'm afraid my other sources are rather colloquial. One of my close personal friends went to Tibet to work on a photography book - he lived there for a spell and got to know some monks quite well. I consulted him for the intro to that article. Also, I used to do volunteer work with a woman that did some security work with the personal guard monks of the Dalai Lama. I've lost contact with her, but she had some very interesting observations. I didn't use anything from her because I didn't know her that well and I could never cross validate what she said. My only research beyond that was personal - mostly into Yamataka and Mahakala cults.

Please note that I mean no disrespect to the Dalai Lama, but the Tibetan monastic system can be very harsh. Most Americans don't know the half of it. Most don't want to know.

I've heard mutters about the darkside of tibet...read an article breaking down myths, talking about ghandi was rascist to blacks, mother theresa was a spiritual pimp fundraising hustler, and dali llama was mean or something...

another thing I read was from the mystic stuart wilde...he is by no means an authentic link as a source but he said something that caught my eye...he said watch out for the tibetans...there is a darkness behind them...all the death imagery etc

little whispers like this i keep hearing and your comment about the mons being slavemasters really caught my eye...what's that about?

Thanks for the replies you guys!.
James

[Shaolinlueb]

"tackling absurd structures"? sounds almost like trying to moderate this forum :D


thats why gene "ching" does it so well ;)

now thats cheap heat.

[HOKPAIWES]

I've heard mutters about the darkside of tibet..James

Yes, I have heard some hints to this as well. One was that at one point in their history the standard operation for encountering a (Chinese) trespasser was castration. And that the life and practicies of fighting monks and the spiritual monks are 2 very different worlds. But like you say, just mutters.


On the subject of the road, they were saying on a TV documentry the vibrations from all the large eqipment such as dump trucks making their way to the job site is shaking apart a near by monastery that had managed to survive otherwise. I remember thinking what a waste as the place is very important to the art world for unlocking some of the mysteries to the creation of the Buddhist wall paintings.


Is it possible to read any more of these writings from Gene Ching, or a book or more articles for those who need more? It seems impossible to find anything about the subject of the warrior monks. I would like to learn more, but the material just isn't out there. I have been pouring over this site,

http://www.case.edu/affil/tibet/currentStaff/goldstein.htm

[diego]

I read a book on the tibetan 5 rites way back in the 90's at the local library, and just found this link showing the rites...yall seen this?

http://www.night-thunder.com/fivesecret.html#detox

this link has the original photo's in the book

http://www.berrybesthealth.com/tibetans.html

[yeshe]

In 1986 I was first introduced to tibetan bhudism when I visired a dharma center
in upstate NY.I became quite involved whith this center and eventauly took
residecnce there.
In 1988 I went to India with our Lama and a bunch of others.While there I stayed
at maybe 10 different tibeten monastaries in north india.We stayed there three
months.
After coming back I stayed at the center for another year.I was involved with
more than few a former tibeten nationals bolth monastics and lay people alike.
I have visted a couple off chinese budhist monasteries.
Having sead all that I will tell you that I have never ever, ever heard or seen any
tibetan, monk or other wise, practice or refer to martial arts.I have seen monks
wrestle a little and compete in matcho games like college kids do but nothing
that resembles any structured martial art.Alot of them do like kungfu movies
though.
The very first chinese budhist monastary I ever went to there was you a big
martial arts demeo.
There was a very famous Dharma Master in NY Chinatown that that had a daily
habit of practicing MAs.I think he died in his 80s.
I have seen in the past 20+ years more than a couple real ordained chinese monks(they were all over 50 yrs old) who new a little or more than a little MAs.

[GeneChing]

There's plenty of my writings (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/TOC/index.php) all over the place (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/TOCindex.php), but if you're looking for more specific to Tibet, that's all I've written at this time and I don't foresee doing more research in this area in the immediate future.

[Vajramusti]

I've heard mutters about the darkside of tibet...read an article breaking down myths, talking about ghandi was rascist to blacks, mother theresa was a spiritual pimp fundraising hustler, and dali llama was mean or something...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Merely because an article somewhere says something doesnt make it true.
Its "Gandhi" not "ghandi" btw. There wasnt a racist bone in his body. During the Boer War he volunteered for ambulance work- involving wounded black africans- neither the Boers or the Brits would deal with the wounded blacks directly. When asked about segregation in the US he said that civil rights for blacks would best be led by an American black and leadership is bound to emerge because segregation was evil.
Martin Luther King was deeply influenced by Gandhi and his approach to non violent resistance. MLK also at one time travelled to India to meet with people who knew Gandhi well. Gandhi's methods also influenced Cesar Chavez's non violent protests. Gandhi was human but racism was not one of his vices.

I do not belong to Mother Teresa's religion and am no advocate of missionary work and do not agree with her views on birth control.But her relief work is/was extraordinary and genuine. She did service work that many others were not doing. I have visited her center at Sealdah station and her relief work in Kalighat. BTW I ran into Muhammad Ali when he was also visiting Mother Theresa. Its insulting to call her work pimping. She has helped many children and women in desperate circumstances.

Best to read more completely about both figures.

Extraordinary human beings.Neither Gandhi nor Theresa were myths.

joy chaudhuri

[diego]

I've heard mutters about the darkside of tibet...read an article breaking down myths, talking about ghandi was rascist to blacks, mother theresa was a spiritual pimp fundraising hustler, and dali llama was mean or something...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Merely because an article somewhere says something doesnt make it true.
Its "Gandhi" not "ghandi" btw. There wasnt a racist bone in his body. During the Boer War he volunteered for ambulance work- involving wounded black africans- neither the Boers or the Brits would deal with the wounded blacks directly. When asked about segregation in the US he said that civil rights for blacks would best be led by an American black and leadership is bound to emerge because segregation was evil.
Martin Luther King was deeply influenced by Gandhi and his approach to non violent resistance. MLK also at one time travelled to India to meet with people who knew Gandhi well. Gandhi's methods also influenced Cesar Chavez's non violent protests. Gandhi was human but racism was not one of his vices.

I do not belong to Mother Teresa's religion and am no advocate of missionary work and do not agree with her views on birth control.But her relief work is/was extraordinary and genuine. She did service work that many others were not doing. I have visited her center at Sealdah station and her relief work in Kalighat. BTW I ran into Muhammad Ali when he was also visiting Mother Theresa. Its insulting to call her work pimping. She has helped many children and women in desperate circumstances.

Best to read more completely about both figures.

Extraordinary human beings.Neither Gandhi nor Theresa were myths.

joy chaudhuri
Well I seen it on TV so it musta been true....:)

it was one of those shows that debunks popular myths...and I've read differant articles speaking on these things before viewing the television program.

[HOKPAIWES]

I read a book on the tibetan 5 rites way back in the 90's at the local library, and just found this link showing the rites...yall seen this?

http://www.night-thunder.com/fivesecret.html#detox

this link has the original photo's in the book

http://www.berrybesthealth.com/tibetans.html


Right, I learned this set a few years back from my southeren blue dragon teacher. He had picked it up somewhere (prolly that same book for all I know) and held on to it as he really enjoys his chi workouts. It is a good little set but just doesn't hold a candle to the energy work we do with Pak Hok Pai. I haven't done this set in a couple years but it was required training in the s.b.d. class and was fun and easy to learn/teach.

[GeneChing]

This evokes that unspoken part of the CR and the banning of MA. It's true that many MAtists suffered hardships during the CR, but what about the Maoists ones?

Himalmedia staff, editors beaten up (http://www.thehimalayantimes.com/fullstory.asp?filename=aFanata0sa3qzpla5a9a9qa.axa mal&folder=aHaoamW&Name=Home&dtSiteDate=20081222)

Himalayan News Service
Himal magazine’s special correspondent Dambar Krishna Shrestha showing the wounds inflicted by the group headed by president of the All Nepal Hotel and Restaurant Workers’ Union Ramesh Panta in Lalitpur office of Himal on Sunday.
Himal magazine’s special correspondent Dambar Krishna Shrestha showing the wounds inflicted by the group headed by president of the All Nepal Hotel and Restaurant Workers’ Union Ramesh Panta in Lalitpur office of Himal on Sunday.
Kathmandu, December 21:

• Presidents of Maoist-affiliated trade unions led the attack
• Martial arts experts involved: Dixit

Continuing their attacks on the media, Maoists today attacked Himalmedia injuring at least 12 senior journalists and other senior-level employees.
A group of some 50 persons led by president of the Maoist-affiliated All Nepal Hotel and Restaurant Workers’ Union (ANHRWU) Ramesh Panta stormed into the meeting hall of Himalmedia’s Hattiban office at noon.
The group attacked Chief Executive Officer of Himalmedia Ashutosh Tiwari as soon as the Lalitpur chief of Maoist-affiliated All Nepal Communications, Printing and Publication Workers’ Union (ANCPPWU) Ramesh KC identified him.
They also attacked the editor of Nepali Times weekly, Kunda Dixit, executive editor of Him-al Khabarpatrika — a vernacular fortnightly — Kiran Nepal, its senior reporter Dambar Krishna Shrestha, Shambhu Guragain, finance manager Bindira Shakya, Surendra Sharma, Subhash Kumar Das, Karma Lama and Bir Bahadur Tamang. They also vandalised the office and left the scene after 15 minutes of vandalism.
The unions had threatened Himalmedia for writing against the workers in its latest issue. Earlier, they had torched the copies of the news magazine and vandalised its distribution office.
“These people appeared to be martial arts experts. They had military training. One of them could kick a tall person like me in the head,” said Kunda Dixit. Dambar Krishna Shrestha suffered the most while trying to protect Kunda.
“They asked me who I was. When I replied I was a journalist, they said, ‘Oh you’re not a worker but a journalist,’ and beat me up,” Shrestha said.
Bindira Shrestha, the finance manager was hit in the chest. CEO Ashutosh Tiwari’s glasses were broken and was injured in the eye. Surendra Sharma of the administration was also beaten up.
“All of these people are Maoists, and we should stop calling them by any other name,” Kunda said. “They are fully controlled by the party.” None of the people had worked in Himal Khabarpatrika before. Meanwhile, Maoist spokesperson Dinanath Sharma said his party had no policy to attack the media and such incidents should be independently probed and the guilty should be booked. “Such incidents should not be politicised,” he said, maintaining that the incident was the result of internal conflict between the workers and the owners.
Following the attack, a delegation of the members of Parliament visited the Himal office, including Nabindra Raj Joshi, KP Oli, Amrit Bohara and Ishwar Pokhrel. Former CPN-UML general secretary Madhav Kumar Nepal too visited the Himalmedia office following the attack. They said it was not just an attack against Himal, but the whole media and democracy.
“The attacks are simply due to impunity,” Kunda Dixit said. “We are waiting to see if the government had the guts to take action against these criminals. We know the names of at least two of them. They just stormed inside our office, and began to thrash people. They must be punished for that.”
A number of organisations, including political parties, have condemned the Maoist attack on free press and demanded an end to impunity. The Federation of Nepali Journalists, Human Rights Activists, Reporters Club Nepal and The Himalayan Times Chapter of FNJ have condemned the attack.
Chief of the Metropolitan Police Range Lalitpur Kedar Man Singh Bhandari said he visited the spot and the police were searching the two people involved in the attack. He said window-panes were smashed and the partition walls of the board room were vandalised.
President of the Democratic Lawyers Association Upendra Neupane has also condemned the attack on Himalmedia.

[SimonM]

Well clearly any martial art that communicates mao-thought is a blessing to the people.

And what other martial art teaches you to use a tiny red book as a deadly weapon?