For Pete's Sake....

[TenTigers]

ahh...ok, howz this? Getting back to that old footage, it was either black and white, or so danged old that it was barely colored. Y'know, how old 8mm transferred about a gazillion times gets, anyway, I'll try to describe what I remember, and perhaps you could indentify it? Some parts looke like they were filmed in a High School gymnasium. The part with William Chung was filmed outdoors, actually looked as if he pulled the car over, got out and filmed then and there. I will try to see if my Si-Hing can put it up on youtube or something.

[Steeeve]

Ten tiger

Thats could be appreciated to see it :)

Steeve

[Steeeve]

Pete

you talk about Sifu Gin foon mark of jook lum southern mantis in the BS thread ....

Hakka style very different of the others ....Som bo gin you know it ....the 18 hands of jook lum southern mantis ....some defensive some offensive some have the two ...

Do you know GM Lam sang ....so much contreversie in this style ...


Steeve

[bakxierboxer]

For MY sake?
Aw, geeee.... ya shouldn't.....
But, "what the hey"!?
(aka "gopherit" or sumthin' like that)


ahh...ok, howz this? Getting back to that old footage, it was either black and white, or so danged old that it was barely colored. Y'know, how old 8mm transferred about a gazillion times gets...

No, I guess I don't.
I have some 8mm of Wong Ark Yuey from the 60s that is in color....


anyway, I'll try to describe what I remember, and perhaps you could indentify it? Some parts looke like they were filmed in a High School gymnasium.

Have at it.
You might even have footage of of my "grading ceremony" which was held in a HS gym.... although that was in 75.


The part with William Chung was filmed outdoors, actually looked as if he pulled the car over, got out and filmed then and there. I will try to see if my Si-Hing can put it up on youtube or something.

SiFu did lots of stuff "just pulling over the car".... including some "acting out" of some "less than socially acceptable" "behavior".....

[Steeeve]

hAhAhahahaHaha:D

For me Sake mean sake japenese wine very good by the way mmmm

Steeve

[bakxierboxer]

you talk about Sifu Gin foon mark of jook lum southern mantis in the BS thread ....

I like to think that I do.
He is my last SiFu.


Hakka style very different of the others ....Som bo gin you know it ....the 18 hands of jook lum southern mantis ....some defensive some offensive some have the two ...

As stated in the "BS" thread (and elsewhere), I do not "know" or "claim" any SPM of any style or origin. I've certainly seen/observed it on many occasions.


Do you know GM Lam sang ....so much contreversie in this style.

Never physically met him, although he was "around" in the later 60s and again after his return from Taiwan. AFAIK, he only taught one non-Chinese a little bit for "personal reasons".... it's even possible that he never taught non-Hakka.... although I've never been curious enough about it to question anyone in that depth.
Basically, it was "none of my business".... that was pretty much made clear to me, and (in any case) I had "no problem" with it.

[Steeeve]

HaHaHa :cool:

Crazy devil Pete :D

[Steeeve]

Pete

since your are the first to open a kajukenbo school in new england (east cost)in 1965 november at westport YmCA

Whats your relationship with George Presare .....the sonny Gascon clan? Whos the pionner of kenpo in this area....

[bakxierboxer]

since your are the first to open a kajukenbo school in new england (east cost)in 1965 november at westport YmCA

I think it might have been a little bit later than that, since I'd only arrived there in November. There was a pic in the local paper and I still have a copy of it in storage.... maybe one of these days I'll finalize wherever it is I'm going to move to and get all that stuff out.

John Leoning "gave" me the entire East Coast for Kajukenbo.... but I was much more interested in learning more TCMA, and frankly, he liked it that way, too.
By 1973, I was "trading" sets with him.... which I thought was a rather unequal trade, but he was OK with it.


Whats your relationship with George Presare .....the sonny Gascon clan? Whos the pionner of kenpo in this area....

No/none/zero.
Only "met" him once at a tournament in Waterbury(maybe Meriden?), Ct in 1966, and we "had words" over who was representing what.... he didn't like that I was claiming Kajukenbo, but at that time, to me, he was claiming that Wm. Chow was his teacher.
I think I retorted that Chow had nothing to do with Kajukenbo, and he got quiet about it.
Neither one of us was willing to "back down" over whatever it was.... and I think the organizer eventually separated us by claiming he needed a couple more referees.

[Steeeve]

pete

Does Jonh or you incorporated some TCMA do the Kajukenbo ???

I mean some forms and change the Trick for put more emphazize to the bo(chinese boxing) of kajukenbo... keeping the core but give a chinese flavor

I think Sijo Emperado asked to Leoning to create the kajukenbo chuan fa branch?

Steeve

[Fu-Pow]

If you see Fu-Pow's Kuen it may be the last one you ever see.....mwahahahahaha!

[bakxierboxer]

pete

Does Jonh or you incorporated some TCMA do the Kajukenbo ???

ME?
Lord no!
I suppose that I could have done so legitimately after 1975 when I had an appropriate ranking under him, but by that time I'd long been doing nothing other than TCMA.

When I visited, I wasn't paying much attention to the Kajukenbo classes and actually scheduled most of my time in the dojo/kwoon around the Kajukenbo classes. I was there to trade sets with John and learn from Share Lew.... as well as running down to Chinatown see SiFu Wong and across town to see Kam Yuen.... I managed to keep "busy" on my "busman's holidays"


I mean some forms and change the Trick for put more emphazize to the bo(chinese boxing) of kajukenbo... keeping the core but give a chinese flavor

I honor and value my beginnings in the original Kajukenbo, but I haven't really done any of it since the very early 80s when I was in Massachusetts.
There was a fellow who wanted to start a chain in competition with Villari and wanted me to teach his kid and a senior of his that would be doing most of the operations at first.... they were "gung ho" until they found out they couldn't make it through the first class.... they decided it'd "never sell".

There was also another fellow with his own Villari break-away dojo who WAS able to do/learn some from me.... once I'd corrected his stances/striding.
Before that, he was a mess.

I also said that watching Rick Kinji's classes made me feel really good.... kinda like "being at home" there. :)


I think Sijo Emperado asked to Leoning to create the kajukenbo chuan fa branch?

I never met SiJo.
I also don't recall ever discussing such a thing with SiFu Leoning.... of course, by that time, that was also another thing that was "none of my business".

[bakxierboxer]

If you see Fu-Pow's Kuen it may be the last one you ever see.....mwahahahahaha!

Are you referring to what was on that video?

[Fu-Pow]

Are you referring to what was on that video?

No I wasn't talking about any video...I was making a joke because you are talking about Fu-Pow Kuen and my screen handle is Fu-Pow. Do you get it?

[bakxierboxer]

No I wasn't talking about any video...I was making a joke because you are talking about Fu-Pow Kuen and my screen handle is Fu-Pow. Do you get it?

I think you posted that in the wrong thread....
I might "get it" if your screen-name was anywhere else on the page but in your posts or my response to your first one..... it isn't.

There's a lot of talk about Fu-Pow Kuen in the thread about Kong's kung fu, but not this one.

Maybe the "joke" is on both of us?

[Fu-Pow]

I think you posted that in the wrong thread....
I might "get it" if your screen-name was anywhere else on the page but in your posts or my response to your first one..... it isn't.

There's a lot of talk about Fu-Pow Kuen in the thread about Kong's kung fu, but not this one.

Maybe the "joke" is on both of us?


Oh $hit I did post in the wrong thread...my bad. :o

[Steeeve]

Pete

If I understood you doing a lot of cross training in this earlier day... Choy lay fut and Tao ahn pai with Sifu Share lew ....Ng ga kuen with GM Wong and Northern sil lum and Praying mantis (7 star and taiji mantis )with Kam yuen...

Do you complete one of this style ?

When you teached ...does you teached one style or a mixed TCMA ?

Here the link to GM Kinji website

http://www.creatriumonline.com/kajukenbo/

Steeve

[bakxierboxer]

If I understood you doing a lot of cross training in this earlier day... Choy lay fut and Tao ahn pai with Sifu Share lew ....Ng ga kuen with GM Wong and Northern sil lum and Praying mantis (7 star and taiji mantis )with Kam yuen...

What is it that makes you think there was any other way to (actually) "get" "anything" (let alone "everything") "back then"?
In any case, I am a "firm believer" in the vagaries/fortunes implied by Yuan Fen.

Besides, my root was/is(?) Kajukenbo.... which "gave me license" to "mix'n'match".
Some might say that I still am Kajukenbo, but my other personal foibles prevent me from claiming ANY "lineage" (especially in the "inheritance sense").... although I am most happy to acknowledge each and every one of my teachers.


Do you complete one of this style ?

Not sure what you mean by "complete".
The "grading ceremony" I mentioned was what my SiFu called a "graduation ceremony".
Some folks will think that implies "completion".
(I think that it is all still "a work in progress")


When you teached ...does you teached one style or a mixed TCMA ?


I have a "funny habit" of thinking that what I learned is responsible for what I became, and insofar as that is a "good thing", I endeavor to teach what I learned in as pure a form as possible.... all of it. (with the exception of "some" "redundant" material)(while not slighting any aspect of the individual arts and their Master's teachings)

[Steeeve]

Yes you are a kajukenbo players ....mixed M A

What is it that makes you think there was any other way to (actually) "get" "anything" (let alone "everything") "back then"?

Agree thats the only way

Not sure what you mean by "complete".
The "grading ceremony" I mentioned was what my SiFu called a "graduation ceremony".
Some folks will think that implies "completion".
(I think that it is all still "a work in progress")


By complete I mean stay in one style .....its not the quantity but the quality ..,
Im very eclectic and learned a lot of style like you but each style have their own concept and principles.....just learning a lot of forms is empty ....




I have a "funny habit" of thinking that what I learned is responsible for what I became, and insofar as that is a "good thing", I endeavor to teach what I learned in as pure a form as possible.... all of it. (with the exception of "some" "redundant" material)(while not slighting any aspect of the individual arts and their Master's teachings)

Again I agree .....and I will kept that in my mind for my own evolution in MA

Thank you

Steeve

[bakxierboxer]

Yes you are a kajukenbo players ....mixed M A

Although I think it is now also possible that you may find some Kajukenbo players who will decry the mixing of *their* art with any other....



What is it that makes you think there was any other way to (actually) "get" "anything" (let alone "everything") "back then"?

Agree thats the only way

It is not the only way.... it's "the breaks", whatever way is open to you, personally.



Not sure what you mean by "complete".

By complete I mean stay in one style .....its not the quantity but the quality ..,
Im very eclectic and learned a lot of style like you but each style have their own concept and principles.....just learning a lot of forms is empty ....

Definitely quality over quantity... it took me a long time to realize that.... although that is now not so long compared to the rest of my path.
An "eclectic" "system" is "not for everybody".... primarily because it is extremely hard to synthesize a cohesive whole out of sometimes divergent concepts and principles. Some folks have been able to do it, others have not.



I have a "funny habit"....

Again I agree .....and I will kept that in my mind for my own evolution in MA
Thank you

Sure thing....
It's always easy to agree with someone who's also agreeable.... :D

[Steeeve]

Sure thing....
It's always easy to agree with someone who's also agreeable....


:D:D:D ur not too bad

Now could you let me know ....What do you learned under GM Wong ? from ur experience with GM Wong

Thank Bakxierboxer ;)

[bakxierboxer]

Sure thing....
It's always easy to agree with someone who's also agreeable....

:D:D:D ur not too bad

I'm only just a little bad?


Now could you let me know ....What do you learned under GM Wong ? from ur experience with GM Wong

That's an "odd" question....

I think that I learned pretty much what anyone else did who "got it".

In some respects, Ng Gar (5-Family) is "pretty much" like 3-Family (CLF), minus the apparent emphasis on most of their stylistically preferred hand-formations....

Ng Gar also tends to have less "whip" and is a little bit "shorter" range.

Is that what you meant?

[Steeeve]

Ok

Im back :D

Nahhhhhhh ur the best

I mean Do you know the salute ?

Steeve

[Jim Anestasi]

Hi guys, I thought I'd jump in here , After the basics , the first thing I learned was a salute. In fact every form there was a slightly different salute some were short and others were almost as long as the set [ form] !. The White Tiger was GM Wong favorite form. The salute was very long, Sifu Ark Wong Told me that the salute was very important, first was a way to warm up your body & to show the spectator's mostly chinese back then what style you were doing. GM Wong liked long hung ga sets, he liked the long stances & long arm movements. When you watch films of him you can see Hung Ga in almost everything he did. He taught me a lot of Hung Ga , He said that I was a big strong guy so I should incorporate a lot of Hung Ga in my style.
I remember doing a demonstration in front of the Hop Sing Tong in new china town, there was about 500 people crowed into this building,I had a lot of pressure on me since not being chinese. I did several forms, they were taking pictures of my performance , one camera man from one of the local chinese press almost got his leg cut off, as he got right behind me and I did not see him as I did a cross horse and cut to the rear this guy got right behind me, that was very dangerous. That night I received many praise's on how strong my horse stances were!!. Sifu Wong Told the crowd that I was His first Non Chinese student To much applause. He received a large trophy, I have a picture of him holding it.
Regards Sifu Jim .:D

[bakxierboxer]

Ok

Im back :D

Nahhhhhhh ur the best

I mean Do you know the salute ?

Slightly different terminology here.... we called the opening the salute.... obviously, to us,"saluting" the/any audience and expressing the type of demo being done.
The salute never varied, other than noted.

We called the second section the introduction. and those had a good deal of variance, since they were usually emphasizing the material about to be done in the main portion of the set.
That said, the introductions usually followed a general pattern working directly to the front and then to each side, returning to directly to the front and closing, only to begin the set itself.

[Steeeve]

Pete

You know the salute;)

Whats about the small cross ,butterfly,combinaition ,black bird and the palm

Steeve

[Steeeve]

Sifu Jim

interesting what you said ....

every animals have their own salute .....but the first set to learnes his the salute ...like describ my Pete

You said hung gar .....Does you learned Hung gar forms from the hung gar style like the tiger crane form or you learned form who look like the hung gar or with the same caracteristic of hung gar ....?

Steeve

[Jim Anestasi]

Hello
Steeve; Just checked in. About Hung Gar All I know is what GM Wong told me and taught me. Since he taught Choy, Li, Mok, Fut, Hung Gar's all of those systems were incorporated in his system. You can see a lot of Hung Gar in most sets that he taught
as well as others.
I agree all salutes & forms start & stop where you started.
The Tiger & the Crane combination set you can see Hung Gar also Fut Gar. etc.
Does this answer your question?.

Regards Sifu Jim.
BTW, Agree with pete.

[bakxierboxer]

[QUOTE=Steeeve;776364]Pete

You know the salute;)

Whats about the small cross ,butterfly,combinaition ,black bird and the palm
/QUOTE]

I don't remember ever learning anything called "the combination".
Small Cross, Long Cross, Butterfly, Tiger, Bird Fall From Tree, Buddhist Palm,
and 5 Animals.... etc.

[bakxierboxer]

You said hung gar .....Does you learned Hung gar forms from the hung gar style like the tiger crane form or you learned form who look like the hung gar or with the same caracteristic of hung gar ....?

Not sure if you meant me or Jim...
I learned H'ung Kuen and another similar branch/style via a referral from SiFu.
The H'ung Gar of the 5-Families seems to me to be from a period "earlier" than Wong Fei Hung and does not have a couple of the signature formations of "mainstream" H'ung Gar after him.

Having said that, SiFu "knew" both of the systems that I'd been thinking were radically different.
"just checking", I asked him if he'd look at a couple of the forms I'd learned back east, and he agreed.
He SMILED all the way through the first set.... and on into the second set..... and then he started to look really ticked off.
I finished, and he exclaimed "WHY you do same set TWICE!?!?"
(apparently "wasting his time"... so I apologized)
(although I DID learn something from the session)

[bakxierboxer]

The Tiger & the Crane combination set you can see Hung Gar also Fut Gar. etc.


Jim and Steeeve

Is that Tiger & Crane combination set what Steeeve has been calling the "combination set"?

[Jim Anestasi]

Hi Pete;

The Tiger & Crane set has nothing to do with the set that Steeve calls The combination Set. It is a completely different set. The one he is talking about is more like the cross fist set. Lets see what he has to say.
Did you see The tribute to GM wong & myself?? ,What did you think.

Bye for now, JIM:)

[Steeeve]

Hi JIm and Pete

Ok now I understood what you mean by hung gar .....like you said the 5 family ...we have the hung...

I agree with you Pete about the
The H'ung Gar of the 5-Families seems to me to be from a period "earlier" than Wong Fei Hung and does not have a couple of the signature formations of "mainstream" H'ung Gar after him.


About the combination ...no its not the tiger crane set..

Steeve

[bakxierboxer]

The Tiger & Crane set has nothing to do with the set that Steeve calls The combination Set.

Does SiFu's Tiger & Crane follow "the usual" Salute + Introduction format?
OR is it more like the H'ung Kuen FuHok Kuen format?


It is a completely different set. The one he is talking about is more like the cross fist set. Lets see what he has to say.

I've seen it now.... I'd seen it (recently) before.


Did you see The tribute to GM wong & myself?? ,What did you think.

I liked it... much better video quality than most of the stuff that's still around.

Pete

[Jim Anestasi]

Pete,
The salute open in the usual manor, then goes into crane movements then tiger moves. The hands change back & forth while moving into tiger then crane.
Then you start the set. I have this set on 8mm tape I need to get transfered on to a c.d.

Hope this answer's your question.

Jim.:D

[Steeeve]

Jim

I want to see it :) maybe its the hung gar fuk hok ???

In fact ..we dont have a tiger crane form in my lineage under Sifu Seming ...We have a dragon &tiger set ,Leopard &tiger like combo form of animals ....


Steeve

[Jim Anestasi]

Hi Steeve, I'm surprised That you don't have it. Do you have Tiger comes down from mountain?, or White Tiger, Monkey Plays, Lung Shir Chuan. Sifu Would show only one or two people special forms & and didn't teach every one the same thing.
You must remember this was in the early day and we only had a few students. Sifu would come up and say o.k. Today I will teach you this form or that . In about 1 hour he would say you look hungry lets go eat some dim sum. He left me alone until a couple of days passed and say show me the set, he would make changes as necessary.

Regards Jim:D

[bakxierboxer]

Pete,
The salute open in the usual manor, then goes into crane movements then tiger moves. The hands change back & forth while moving into tiger then crane.
Then you start the set. I have this set on 8mm tape I need to get transfered on to a c.d.

Hope this answer's your question.

I'm not familiar with it.... which isn't all that surprising.
Pretty much answers any questions though.
If you ever get around to it, I'm sure it would be most interesting.

Pete

[bakxierboxer]

I want to see it :) maybe its the hung gar fuk hok ???

In fact ..we dont have a tiger crane form in my lineage under Sifu Seming ...We have a dragon &tiger set ,Leopard &tiger like combo form of animals ....

H'ung Gar/Kuen FuHok has their salute, opens the intro to the front, then each side,and again to the front.... closes and does additional intro moves to each front diagonal... closes again to begin the set proper.

Pete

[Steeeve]

Sifu Jim


Do you have Tiger comes down from mountain?, or White Tiger, Monkey Plays, Lung Shir Chuan.

We have the five animals and some others like the Elephant ,monkey ,horse,Lion
also some supplemental forms eagle ,Golden dragon ,side tiger ,bull....maybe they are the forms you talk about ?

Steeve

[Jim Anestasi]

Hi Steeve,

I not sure what I have on film as I need to convert it all to dvd's. I can remember some of them,I know there is sparing, lot of weapon set's, animal forms etc. I will try to find them all & get them transfered . So how is that video coming of you?.

Regards Sifu Jim.:D

[Steeeve]

Uncle Jim

I send you one but I could put it in U tube ....No problemo I do it

[Jim Anestasi]

steeve,
Put it on YT. or send it to me, I would like to see you in action.:D

Jim.

[The Xia]

side tiger
What's that?

[Steeeve]

Xia

Side tiger is the english name of a form like the tiger coming down the mountain

Xia just a name but a lot of tiger .....

Steeve

[The Xia]

Thanks Steeeve. :)
How do you get "Side tiger" from "tiger coming down the mountain?" :confused:

[Steeeve]

The Xia

Side tiger is a form from what my Sifu said

It is a tiger form mainly use our side or triangle stance to attcack, defense or counter; in another word, to avoid "frontal confrontation", use or redirect your opponent's force from the 'flank".

[The Xia]

The Xia

Side tiger is a form from what my Sifu said

It is a tiger form mainly use our side or triangle stance to attcack, defense or counter; in another word, to avoid "frontal confrontation", use or redirect your opponent's force from the 'flank".
Thanks. Now it makes sense.

[The Xia]

ttt..............