Kungfu and karate no match for jetsu?

[funnykungfu]

Ok guys, I've never study martial arts before, so don't bash me. But yesterday, I went on youtube and just type in Jackie chan for no reason and one kung fu video lead to another, and one style video lead to another, and all of a sudden I'm addicted, but eventually I reached the videos of MMA where different styles were fighting against jetsu, and all of the videos the jitsu guys won. The kungu and karate styles cannot maintain a standing fight and all got taken to the ground, which all the punches and kicks that they learned are completely useless.

So I'm just curios, is martial arts really effective in a real street fight especially against jitsu or is it just for the movies?

[Davio]

Its best to be a rounded fighter, chinese fighters used to do "mma" ie, they studied loads of different styles, some which included shuai chai, wrestling. In real life, going to the ground can work, but people do tend to have angry mates, which kick your head in :-p.

[Mr Punch]

All noobs aboard the short yellow bus thread! Take a trip down memory lane as you hurtle back to 1993!

[xcakid]

I've said this before and I will keep saying it: NO ONE STYLE IS GOOD FOR STREET FIGHTS.

Street fight are unpredictible. How do you defend against a guy shaking your hand while his buddy comes up behind you and shoots you in the back of the head and take off with your car and wallet? How do you defend against 10 people jumping you? How do you defend from a guy bumping into you and stabbing you without provocation or warning? How do you defend against a sniper shooting at you like in VA? All of these has happened/happens in the street. It is a fight. A fight for your life. As much as MMA guys think it is the end all be all in the world of Martial Arts, they are stuck in their own world. Cause they still can't block bullets or predict what will happen at the turn of the corner, or take on a mob like recently in Austin TX where a guy got beat to death ( Read Story here (http://www.news8austin.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=186574) ). Yeah I'd like to see them submit/choke 3-20 guys at once. I would pay big dollars to see that on pay per view.

All Martial Arts will do is prepare you. What you do from there is up to you whether or not you want to survive and not give up. Also take your ego out of it and know when to run. Know to recognize a bad situation.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Ok guys, I've never study martial arts before, so don't bash me. But yesterday, I went on youtube and just type in Jackie chan for no reason and one kung fu video lead to another, and one style video lead to another, and all of a sudden I'm addicted, but eventually I reached the videos of MMA where different styles were fighting against jetsu, and all of the videos the jitsu guys won. The kungu and karate styles cannot maintain a standing fight and all got taken to the ground, which all the punches and kicks that they learned are completely useless.

So I'm just curios, is martial arts really effective in a real street fight especially against jitsu or is it just for the movies?

Didn't you know? that wasn't the REAL karate and Kung fu you saw.

[PangQuan]

I've said this before and I will keep saying it: NO ONE STYLE IS GOOD FOR STREET FIGHTS.

Street fight are unpredictible. How do you defend against a guy shaking your hand while his buddy comes up behind you and shoots you in the back of the head and take off with your car and wallet? How do you defend against 10 people jumping you? How do you defend from a guy bumping into you and stabbing you without provocation or warning? How do you defend against a sniper shooting at you like in VA? All of these has happened/happens in the street. It is a fight. A fight for your life. As much as MMA guys think it is the end all be all in the world of Martial Arts, they are stuck in their own world. Cause they still can't block bullets or predict what will happen at the turn of the corner, or take on a mob like recently in Austin TX where a guy got beat to death ( Read Story here (http://www.news8austin.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=186574) ). Yeah I'd like to see them submit/choke 3-20 guys at once. I would pay big dollars to see that on pay per view.

All Martial Arts will do is prepare you. What you do from there is up to you whether or not you want to survive and not give up. Also take your ego out of it and know when to run. Know to recognize a bad situation.


me like post!!!

[golden arhat]

chinese martial arts probably worked alot better in the past when it was alot less formalised less about forms etc

the techniques in cma should work in heory but without proper training in there use u can only dance with them

i practise mma/valetudo cos "right now" that what works
in 400 years it will probably look alot like cma

u can see for yourself where cma techniques would fit in a fight
i mean it is a martial art it wouldnt exist if it never ever worked cos it would have just died out

the important thing is to have an open mind and take it all with a pinch of salt and u should come to the right conclusion

[scholar]

Also, Chinese martial arts worked a lot better in the past when practitioners were expected (they didn't choose, most of 'em) to be professional soldiers or bodyguards and trained all day every day from the age they were big enough to hold a spear or sword, and if they messed up, even slightly, they got the crap kicked out of them. A lot. It was a full time job on top of a full time job for year after year until they got it down, exactly as they were being shown.

The training was incredibly harsh. If students messed up, they got smacked around, If they didn't mess up they got smacked around. People were killed training. The only way out was to run away. If you were a family member though, they would hunt you down.

Nobody trains the way they did 100, 200, 300, etc. years ago. A sifu would go to jail for teaching the old school way.

[Shaolin Wookie]

chinese martial arts probably worked alot better in the past when it was alot less formalised less about forms etc

the techniques in cma should work in heory but without proper training in there use u can only dance with them

i practise mma/valetudo cos "right now" that what works
in 400 years it will probably look alot like cma


I don't know. I definately don't agree with that last sentence. As long as there's a venue where MA practitioners can compete regularly, the mythologized version of MA will not propagate itself, or even survive. So long as there's full contact tournaments where martial artists actually have to apply their art martially :eek:, there won't be room for the "Let me now show you how to rip a man's head off using only your pinkie finger" kind of mentality.

The reason we're seeing this kind of "revolution" in martial thinking, is because in the past it was either illegal or taboo to fight full contact in professional venues. I don't think it'll ever be a purely gladatorial venue--hopefully, anyways--so as long as it isn't declared illegal, or lose publicity and funding, it will survive.

My problem with your first sentence is this: The reason all those stand-up martial artists lose to BJJ is because they lack a progressive mentality. Theirs is purely reactive.

BJJ=progressive: attack, take to ground, attack some more

CMA=wait for opening, attack, attack some more, wait for more openings

MMA=attack without over-stressing openings you create, just force the opponent to defend, take to ground, attack, if he gets up, attack.

In CMA, you don't train to take someone out. You train not to get taken out. But in a fight where someone is trying to hurt you badly, if you do not have the same dedication (meaning, if you don't want to seriously hurt him badly, more so than he wants to destroy you), you're going to lose.

I've seen all those videos. Never, in any of them, did the stand-up fighters throw more than four strikes, if any at all, before being grounded and taken out. They did not have the same dedication or mindset.

1. They're defending their martial tradition, not attacking another.
2. They're defending their position, not attacking another's.
3. They're defending themselves, not attacking another.

And in traditional martial arts, if you aren't willing to strike first, don't be surprised if you get hit. Plus, the BJJ guys don't throw strikes to start the matches, so the strikers are immediately out of their element. They only train against other strikers.

Striking can work against groundfighters. Look at Lidell, Silva, Crocop.

But they're all mean-muggin' mofos, who'll KFO you if you get within ten feet of them in the ring.

It's the mentality of their fighting spirit, if you will. They've got that fighter's heart.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Nobody trains the way they did 100, 200, 300, etc. years ago. A sifu would go to jail for teaching the old school way.

Then they had crappy methods (we're excepting weapons training---that's a whole 'nother ballgame).

You can be a bad ass mofo nowadays, and you don't have to risk going to jail or getting maimed. You just have to train more efficiently and smarter. It's why MMA is at the top of the game right now. They took the best methods of training and fighting.

Frank Shamrock does friggin' gymnastics (looks like a drunken kung fu form) to maintain a level of fitness that gives him better body control.

It helps bolster his fighting ability.

Forms do the same. They help bolster your fighting ability. BUt you actually have to train to fight as your primary purpose. Karate and Kung fu just don't really do that.