wing chun centerline (centerplain)

[crane5]

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Hi ,since I understood I sould have posted this questions separately so I could get a satisfying answer, Im doing so now.
1. If we take into concideration that human body is not symetrical, center of the forhead ,center of the jaw,center of the chest and the belly button are not all completely in the line(they are all few milimeters(10 to 15 mm) off in comparison to one another),my question is where does the centerline lie?
If there is someone with the knowledge of acupuncture(TCM) that person would be most suited to answer this question, of course if this person is also a wing chun teacher(sifu)this would be very helpful.

I know I complicated this question. So I’ll put it simpler.
When you practice siu nim tau how do you Imagine that centreline ( centerplain ) along which you move your tan ,fook and other sao- es?

You would be very helpful if you will give some good and useful answers.

I thank you much sincerely.
Crane5

[Vajramusti]

For development purposes--- when doing the slt:

If you stand before a mirror- your image is your "shadow". The plane between
the middle of your body and that of your shadow-that's what you "control" with
tan, bong and fook.There are lots of details in developing the motions.

Development and application are related but are two different stages of training IMO.

The position of that plane will change in applications when you have a live person
in front of you.... but the concept of that plane will help you focus on protecting your center and attacking the other persons center in dynamics..

Hope that helps some...
Ask your sifu for further details- I dont want to confuse you.

joy chaudhuri

[Mr Punch]

Crane sir (madam?), I think you're overconceptualizing. I don't imagine a plane when I'm practising: I put my hands out from the centre of my body. In my lineage it really was as simple as that! Hands out crossed over - that gives you some idea of the centreline: which is as far as it goes.

Centreline is a good starting concept... 15 mills here and there in the air doesn't make any difference - it might do against someone, but that's why not of it really matters so much until you're practising with other people.

If you want a visualization, the one Joy just gave is useful, as is practising in front of a mirror at first.

[anerlich]

If there is someone with the knowledge of acupuncture(TCM) that person would be most suited to answer this question, of course if this person is also a wing chun teacher(sifu)this would be very helpful.

I qualify on both counts, and as I told you on the other thread there is no point worrying about the exact anatomy of the centreline for the purposes of WC.

To paraphrase, one definition of insanity is to ask the same questions over and over and expect different answers.

[crane5]

thanks Varjamusti and MR Punch.

[crane5]

I qualify on both counts, and as I told you on the other thread there is no point worrying about the exact anatomy of the centreline for the purposes of WC.

To paraphrase, one definition of insanity is to ask the same questions over and over and expect different answers.

I had put this questiopns once again , since I thought after reading your first answers it was too much to handle all at once for most of you who replied to my questions earlier.

But since you clame you have the knowledge about acupuncture points and meridians, what do you say about that central meridian on which is dantian located, is that a straight line as it is shown in many schematic drawings of acu points in books, or that straight line is just an aproximasation of the acu point locations. can you tell something about this from your expirience.

[Lee Chiang Po]

I am not sure exactly what it is that you are asking, but if it is what I think it is, Centerline has nothing to do with meridians. Centerline is simple. Your centerline is from your forehead down between your eyes, down the center of your chest and down through the center of your crotch. This is your center line. You make every effort to keep that center line aimed directly at an opponent. You violate his center line as often as possible. By keeping your center line aimed directly at this opponent you are able to better attack or defend your entire body. It is hard to defend against an attack from your side or back. If you are faced dead on you have a much better chance of defense and retaliation. By violating his center line you put him at disadvantage. That is all center line is. It is not a concept, and it does not have to do with anything else beyond that. What you are talking about is Dim Mak. I suspect that most Chunners do not believe in it. It is real, but it has nothing to do with centerline.

[chusauli]

Being an acupuncturist and WCK practitioner, I would say that really the centerline is the center of gravity. My background in acupuncture is probably deeper than most and I have studied TCM, Tung family style, Yi Lei, and classical acupuncture from the main ancient Chinese classics. The modern TCM "party line" is what most people study.

Your questions deals with many paradigms or models of understanding.

Anatomically, the centerline is the vertical axis that runs along the center of the body.

It also coinsides with the three main channels called Ren Mai, Chong Mai and Du Mai in acupuncture and Chinese medicine.

Ayurvedically, it is where our 7 major chakras are.

My Sifu, Hawkins Cheung, defined it as the fastest line of entry between you and your opponent.

As I've understood WCK in terms of functionality, I would say that really we mean the center of gravity, while striking various targets. You break the center of gravity when you hit the opponent so that he has no protection (i.e. strong anatomical structure) to prevent getting broken. By maintain a flat (main) body position, nature has already afforded us skeletal defense against most head on attacks. WCK exploits this. When we break the Center of gravity, people deviate from this skeletal "armor", and are most susceptible to injury.

In acupuncture, we needle various points so that we can access the flow of energy in one paradigm. In another paradigm's explanation, we are stimulating the nervous system to signal the brain to maintain homeostasis.

So your question is a good and deep one, and means a lot. I would consider all the things I speak here.

[YungChun]

I would say that really we mean the center of gravity, while striking various targets. You break the center of gravity when you hit the opponent

Give that man a cigar...

Thing is, that some folks are talking about a line of targets down the front of the body.. This is also called the centerline.. This is why I call the CG one "center space" now... It connects the vertical center of gravity between two combatants and we attempt to both control and issue force on this line/through this space...

Yes, we do try to FACE the opponent with our other centerline but when we are not facing him the CG centerline does not originate from the front but from the position that connects both combatants.. Thus in the Kuen Kuit there is a reference to when you are side facing your "shoulder is where the centerline is..." The centerline or center space or center axis MOVES and we try to REFACE that space, fill that space with structure/attack .and issue force into that space...