Hung Men/Hung Mun Hung Kuen--any evidence?

[Erasmus Mingatt]

OK--

I feel pretty safe in making this post since I have never known nor seen anyone who claims to do the kf of Hung Mun(aka-Hung Men) society.

I am told and I have read repeatedly that they have done their own style of kung fu..yet I have never heard anything beyond this. Never a mention of any forms that they did..or how their patterns look. Never even so much of an article except that they "were an underground revolutionary association" that "had their own style of kf".

Well...what gives fellas? Is the society THAT SECRET that even after it stopped being secret(aka: the outside world was informed that it existed after the end of the Ming--beginning of the Ching)..that STILL in this day and age..noone knows anything beyond that "they had their own kf"?

It's really odd..don't ya think?

Does anyone know of any forms..or their names..or what their kf resembles?

Anything?


:rolleyes:

[hskwarrior]

I thought Ng Ga Kuen would be the closest thing to what members of the Hung Mun practiced. THe Ng Ga is in reference to the 5 ancestors.

however, CLF was also taught within the hung mun both chan and Hung Sing branches were heavily involved. However, what about Hung Ga?

[Erasmus Mingatt]

hskwarrior,

Thanks for your reply. When you say Ng Ga Kuen do you mean the late GM Ark YueyWongs' style? Does he/one of the masters under him list this on their website(the Hung Mun)?

I suppose I should rephrase my question...

I don't doubt that there were some styles which may have had founder or other developers who were MEMBERS of the Hung Mun..

What I mean more specifically is...what I have read seems to imply that they(HM) had their own UNIQUE style of kf that isn't a borrowing of CLF nor HG nor any of the southern or even any of the Northern styles.

It would seem that the HM had their own unique thing going on that didn't really borrow from other styles.

Regards,
EM

[hskwarrior]

"Because the character "hung" was used in the reign name of the emperor who overthrew the Mongol Yuan Dynasty to establish the Han Chinese Ming Dynasty, opponents of the Manchu Qing Dynasty made frequent use of the character in their imagery. (Ironically, Luk Ah-Choi was the son of a Manchu stationed in Guangdong.) Hung Hei-Gun is itself an assumed name intended to honor that first Ming Emperor. Anti-Qing rebels named the most far reaching of the secret societies they formed the "Hung Mun" which, like "Hung Gar," can be translated as "Hung family." The Hung Mun claimed to be founded by survivors of the destruction of the Shaolin Temple, and the martial arts its members practiced came to be called "Hung Gar" and "Hung Kuen."


this was taken from the martialartsgathering website.................

[hskwarrior]

maybe you can find it in this list.....

List of different Chinese Martial Arts styles

Baguazhang (八卦掌 Pa Kua Chang) - Eight-Trigrams Palm
Bafaquan (八法拳)
Bajiquan (八極拳) - Eight Extremes Fist
Bak Mei (白眉拳) - White Eyebrow
Black Tiger Kung Fu (黑虎拳)
Chaquan (查拳) - Cha Fist
Changquan (長拳) - Long fist
Chuo Jiao (戳腳) - Poking Feet
Choy Gar (蔡家)
Choy Lee Fut (蔡李佛) - (Mandarin: Cailifo)
Dachengquan (大成拳) Great Achievement boxing
Ditangquan (地躺拳) - Ground-Prone Fist, Ground Tumbling Boxing
Do Pi Kung Fu (道派)
Dragon Kung Fu (Lung Ying) (龍形拳)
Duan Quan (短拳) - Short Range Boxing
Duck Kung Fu (鴨子拳)
Eagle Claw (鷹爪翻子拳)
Emeiquan (峨嵋拳)
Fanziquan (翻子拳) - Overturning Fist, Tumbling Boxing
Five Ancestors (五祖拳) - Wuzuquan or Ngo Cho Kun.
Flower Fist (花拳) Huāquán
Fu Chiao quan (虎爪拳) Tiger Claw
Fut Gar (佛家) Buddhist family Style
Guoquan (狗拳) - Dog Fist
He Quan (鶴拳) Crane Boxing
Feihe Quan (飛鶴拳) Flying Crane Boxing
Guohe Quan (遊鶴拳) Playing Crane Boxing, Wandering Crane Boxing
Minghe Quan (鳴鶴拳) Crying Crane Boxing, Calling Crane boxing
Shihe Quan (食鶴拳) Eating Crane Boxing, Preying Crane boxing
Suhe Quan (宿鶴拳) Sleeping Crane Boxing
Zhenhe Quan (震鶴拳) Shaking Crane Boxing
Zonghe Quan (縱鶴拳) Jumping Crane Boxing
Houquan (猴拳) - Monkey Fist
Drunken Monkey (醉;猴)
Huaquan (華拳) - China Fist
Hung Fut (洪佛) - Hung and Buddha style kung fu
Hung Gar (洪家)
Hu Quan (虎拳) - Tiger Fist
Jeet Kune Do (截拳道) - style founded by Bruce Lee
Jing Wu Men (精武門) - Jing Wu, a famous school based in Shanghai that teaches several different styles.
Jing Quan Do (精拳道) - modern synthetic style
Jow-Ga Kung Fu (周家) - Jow family style
Kuen-Do (拳道)
Lanshou Men - Blocking-hand Boxing
Lau Gar (刘家) - Lau family style
Lai-Ga-Sau - a recent separate branch based in the United Kingdom
Leopard Kung Fu (豹拳)
Li (Lee) Family - (李家) - Li Family or Lee Family style
Liu Seong Kuntao (also Liu Seong Gung Fu, Liu Seong Chuan Fa) A modern style combining the martial arts of China and Indonesia and is now based in the United States.
Liuhe Bafa (六合八法 Liu He Pa Fa, Lok Hup Ba Fa) - Water Boxing
Long fist kung fu (Northern Shaolin Long Fist Kung Fu)
Luohan Quan - (;羅漢拳) Arhat Boxing
Mei Hua Quan (梅花拳 Plum Blossom Fist)
Mian Quan - Continous Boxing
Mok Gar - (莫家) Mok family style
My Jong Law Horn (迷蹤羅漢拳)
Nam Pai Chuan (南派拳)
Nan Quan (南拳)
Northern Praying Mantis (北派螳螂拳)
Pai lum - White Dragon, Pai Family Method
Paochui (炮捶) - Cannon Fist, Sanhaung Paochui
Phoenix (Wu Jia Quan Fa or Wu Jia Dragon-Phoenix style)
Piguaquan (劈掛拳) - Chop-Hitch Fist, Axe-hitch boxing
Praying Mantis: see either Northern or Southern Praying Mantis.
Rat Kung Fu (蔡家 Choy Gar)
Sanda (散打) or Sanshou (散手)
San Soo (散手)
Shaolin Nam Pai Chuan (少林南派拳)
Shaolin Quan (少林拳)
Shen Lung Kung Fu (神龍功夫) - Modern variations of Southern style chinese martial arts based in the United States.
Shuai Chiao (摔跤 Shuaijiao) - Chinese Wrestling
Shequan (蛇拳) - Snake Fist
Southern Praying Mantis (南派螳螂拳)
Tai Chi Chuan (太極拳 T'ai Chi Ch'uan, Taijiquan) - Ultimate Supreme Fist
Taizu Changquan (太祖長拳) - Emperor Taizu long fist
Tang Lang Hu Shi - Praying Mantis Kung Fu and Tiger Style Kung Fu
Tantui (彈腿/譚腿) - Spring Leg style
Tien Shan Pai (天山派)
Tongbeiquan (通背拳) - Through-the-Back Fist
Tueh Ming Sin'Kung - modern style combining Northern and Southern traditions based in the Netherlands
Turtle Kung Fu
White Crane (白鶴拳)
Wing Chun (詠春 Ving Tsun, WingTsun) - made famous by Bruce Lee
Wudangquan (武當拳)
Xingyiquan (形意拳 Hsing-i Ch'uan) - Shape-Intent Fist
Xinyiba (心意把)
Xinyiliuhequan (心意六合拳) - Heart Mind Six Harmonies Fist
Yau Kung Mun ( 软功門)
Yingzhaoquan (鷹爪拳) - Eagle Claw Fist
Yiquan (意拳 I Ch'uan)
Yuejiaquan (岳家拳) - Yue-family Boxing
Zhuan Shu Kuan - modern composite style containing elements of Tae Kwon Do, Muay Thai and Long fist kung fu. It is based in the United Kingdom
Ziramen - (自然门) - Natural boxing
Zui Quan (醉拳) - Drunken Fist

[hskwarrior]

Description
前　言Foreword


　　太祖拳又名洪拳或紅拳，在中國武術中流派很多。Known as Hong Quan style Chinese kung fu great-grandmother punches or red boxing, Chinese martial arts in many schools.

　　南少林有洪家拳和太祖拳。Shaolin Hung, a great-grandmother punches and punches. 洪家拳由福建洪熙官創傳，乃南拳「洪、劉、蔡、李、莫」五門名拳之一；太祖拳是南拳地方拳路的一種。Hon gjiadu punches from Fujian Hongxiguan Chong Chuan, is nanquan "Hung Liu, Tsai, Lee, MO," five from one of the punches; great-grandmother punches nanquan local boxing is a way.

　　峨嵋派有洪門拳和趙門拳兩種。Emei sent Zhao HONGMEN punches and punches two doors. 洪門在四川流傳最廣，分旱洪和水洪兩種，為「洪、化、字、慧」四小家之一；趙門也是蜀地拳，與「岳、杜、僧 」合稱四大家。HONGMEN in Sichuan among the most popular, dry-hong and two water Hung, "Hung, chemistry, character, Emily," one of the four small; Zhao Shu Gate is to boxing, "Yue, Kindu, Monk," with all four said.

　　長拳門中有太祖拳，也稱「三十二勢長拳」，山東多傳習。Changquan doors are great-grandmother punches, also called "32 potential changquan," Shandong more traditional exercise.

　　戳腳門中有太祖拳，傳說由明朝朱元璋創設，也稱「明太祖拳」和「明洪武拳」，與「董豹、老鷹、彌陀」並 稱四大名拳。Poke foot doors are great-grandmother punches and legends created by the Ming emperor, also known as the "tsu boxing" and "boxing Hongwu" "Dong leopard and the eagle, Amitabha," added the four were cuffed.

　　河南嵩山少林寺有洪拳，分大洪拳和小洪拳，是少林寺的代表拳法，流傳最廣。Songsha n Shaolin Temple in Henan are Hong Quan style Chinese kung fu, Hong Quan style Chinese kung fu-large and small Hong Quan style Chinese kung fu, the Shaolin Temple is the representative of relatively stable democratic, among the most popular.

　　陝西有紅拳，舊說「紅拳出關中」，路數最多，可納入長拳範疇。Shaanxi red fist, the old "red boxing customs", the largest ones that can be incorporated into the changquan areas.

　　湖北地方拳中有洪門拳，風格近於武當派。Hubei is the local boxing HONGMEN force, the Wudang style camp in the past.

　　江湖賣藝中有紅拳，演練花哨，架勢美觀，被統稱為「花紅」。Kung Fu demonstration were red punch, drill garish and beautiful posture, being referred to as the "bonuses."

　　還有一種年代古老的洪拳門，分大洪門和小洪門，各自獨立，與「少林、華拳、潭腿、串拳」同列稱六大名門 。There's an old Hong Quan style Chinese kung fu doors, divided into major and minor HONGMEN HONGMEN and independent, and "Shaolin, the Chinese boxing, tan legs, Series punches, "said the same six were out the door.

　　其他還有回紅拳、苗紅、關西紅、關東紅、隴地高紅拳等各地不同傳承。There are other red punch back, Miao Hong, Kansai red, east of red, Gansu high red boxing different places such as inheritance.

　　本書介紹的太祖拳是中央國術館第一屆國術國考優等獲得者張世德師承，至今已三十七代，風格剛猛，注重實 戰，屬少林派正宗嫡傳。The book on the great-grandmother punches central Martial Arts Museum States for the first session of Excellence winners of this country under the tutelage of Zhang Germany, so far 37's, fierce style, pay attention to real combat, an authentic Shaolin camp chief.

　　筆者參考太祖老譜，結合自身經驗，系統成冊，披露當世，以饗後學。I reference old great-grandmother spectrum, in light of its own experience, the system into a book, when the disclosure of the world to savor after school. 其中皆為太祖門歷代真傳，希望志武者多加珍愛，必有大用。Which were really great-grandmother-door history, hoping Zhiwu give greater treasure, one must be big. 但限於水準，難免缺憾，懇請方家不吝賜教。Limited to the standard, it is inevitable shortcomings, I implore expert spared no substantive progress.

[hskwarrior]

Nanquan brief

作者：武术协会 文章来源：转载 点击数：327 更新时间：2006-11-26Author : Wushu Association article Source : reproduced Hits : 327 Update : 2006-11-26



南拳是明代以来流行于南方的一大类拳种的总称。Nanquan Ming been a popular south of the fifteen largest category of customers. 南拳据说最初是出于南少林，在明代逐渐形成独立拳系。Nanquan reportedly was initially based Southern Shaolin, the Ming Dynasty gradually formed independent punch line. 南拳总的特点是步稳、拳刚、势烈，少跳跃、多短拳、擅剽手，以声、气修力。Nanquan general characteristics is further steady, just boxing, the situation fierce, and less jumping, more short punches, he is nimble hands to sing, repair of gas.
南拳种类繁多，如福建的少林桥手、五祖拳、鹤拳、罗汉拳，广西的周家拳、屠龙拳、小策打，浙江的洪家拳。N anquan wide variety, such as Fujian Shaolin bridge hands Wuzu punches, Hok boxing, strength, Guangxi Zhou punches, Boxer said to small policy fight, Zhejiang Hongjiadu punches. 黑虎拳、金刚拳。Black Tiger punches and the Golden punches. 湖北的洪门拳、鱼门拳、孔门拳、湖南的巫家拳、洪家拳、薛家拳等。Hubei HONGMEN punches, fish door punches, punches Confucius, the Witch Hunan-style boxing, Hung-style boxing, boxing, etc. Xue.
南拳的代表是广东南拳，广东南拳的代表是“五大名家”，他们是： Nanquan representatives of the Guangdong nanquan, Guangdong nanquan representative is the "five great masters," they are :
一、洪拳。1, Hong Quan style Chinese kung fu. 洪拳源出少林寺、相传为洪熙官所创，洪熙官本为福建漳州茶商，创拳后传给南少林的洪门五祖，洪拳后来传入广 东，包括五行拳（金拳、夹木拳，水浪拳、火箭拳、土地拳）和十形拳（龙拳、蛇拳、虎拳、豹拳，鹤拳、狮拳、 象拳、马拳、猴拳、彪拳等十大象形拳），历代著名高手有洪文定、陆亚彩、觉固禅师。Hong Quan style Chinese kung fu originated from the Shaolin Temple, according to legend, created for Hong Yi Guan, Hong Yi Guan of the Zhangzhou in Fujian merchants Chong fist after the pass Shaolin HONGMEN Wuzu, Hong Quan style Chinese kung fu later came to Guangdong, including elements punches (the punches, punches folder wood, water waves punches, Rocket punches and land punches) and the 10-boxing (Lontrel, snakes punches, punches tiger, leopard punches, Hok punches, punches lion, like boxing, horse fights, makes monkey-style kungfu movements. Biao fist fights and other pictographic 10), Gems famous experts will be Hongwen, land-color, Cox Solid Zen master. 铁桥三、林福成、黄泰、黄飞鸿、林世荣等，是南拳中最大的一派。Tie-3, Lin Fucheng, the field of, the realist, Lam Sai Wing, nanquan is the largest faction.
二、刘拳。2, Liu punches. 据说为刘三眼所创，也有说是下四府刘生或刘青山所创的，流传于雷州半岛。Liu said by the three creators, but also said the government is under 4 or qing Liusheng created by circulating in the Leizhou Peninsula.
三、蔡拳。3, Cai punches. 由福建甫少林寺僧蔡伯达、蔡九仪所创，后来流传于广东中山等地，包括十字拳、大运天、小运天、天边雁、柳碎 梅、两仪四象拳等。By Fu Shaolin monks Fujian Episodes tat, Metallurgy NG created, and later spread in Zhongshan, Guangdong and other places, including the Crusaders punches, Dayun days, small Win Tin, recognized Yan, Liu Mei broken, unveiled four images such as boxing.
四、李拳。4, Li punches. 相传由福建南少林寺僧李色开所创，又由广东新会人李友山传授。Southern Fujian passed by the monks of Shaolin Temple opened color Lee created, from Guangdong who will teach Mr Lee Hill. 一说由广东惠州李应辉所创，李拳流行于广东中山、河源、高州、龙川、广州等地。One from Huizhou in Guangdong said Lee Ying-hui created, Li punches popular in Zhongshan, Guangdong, Heyuan, Gaozhou, Longchuan, Guangzhou and other places.
五、莫拳。5, Mo punches. 相传为福建南少林至善禅师所创；一说由莫达士所创，后传至莫清骄（一说莫清娇）。Fujian generation Shaolin perfect Zen master created; Said one created by Modashi, hopefully after Mo-arrogance (1 Mo-Jiao said). 流传于珠江三角洲一带。Spread in the Pearl River Delta area.
五大名拳多数从福建南少林传来。Five were from the Fujian majority punches Shaolin came. 和洪门天地会多少有些联系，不仅是武术门派，也是极为活跃的江湖派别。And the number of HONGMEN will have some contact is not only featuring martial arts, and is also extremely active quack factions.
除五大名拳外，广东南拳还有蔡李佛拳（由新会人陈享创立，他师从陈远护、李友山及少林寺和尚蔡福，综合了蔡 家拳、李家拳、佛家拳三派精华，故名蔡李佛拳）、虎鹤双形拳（南海人林世荣综合洪拳、佛拳所创，又称“洪头 佛尾”）、咏春拳（福建严咏春严三娘所创、一说至善禅师传入广州光孝寺）、侠拳（大侠李胡子从四川峨眉山传 入广州）、白眉拳（四川峨眉山白眉道人传入广州）、佛家拳（从佛门传入）、练<BR>步拳、练手拳、刁家教、岳家教、朱家教、昆仑拳、南枝拳、儒拳等。In addition to the five famous boxing, Guangdong nanquan there Salifu punches (from the new entitlements Chen founded, he was under the care Chen Yuan, Li Shan and CAI Fu Shaolin monks, a comprehensive Caijiaying punches, Lee punches, three punches to send Buddhist cream found in Califo punches), Fu Hok double-fist (South China Sea were integrated Lam Sai Wing Hong Quan style Chinese kung fu, boxing created Buddha, known as "Buddha head Hung Mei") arts (Fujian Yong-Chun Yan Yan Sanniang setting and a perfect Zen master said Guangxiaoshi into Guangzhou), Xia punches (Shanhaiguan Lee beard came from Sichuan Emeishan Guangzhou), Agkistrodon punches (Sichuan Emeishan Hoolock Road into Guangzhou), Buddhist punches (imported from Buddhism), further punches <BR> training, practice hands cuffed, Diao tutor, Yue tutor, Zhu tutor, Kunlun punches, Naqi punches, punches and so on Confucianism.
南拳在广东、福建沿海一带形成独有的南方特色，尤其是清代以来，以“反清复明”始，以“行侠仗义”终，在武 侠传奇小说和影视中占有重要的地位，比如福建南少林，传说中是一个反清的大本营，在那里集结了洪门子弟和三 山五岳的侠雄豪客。Nanquan in Guangdong and Fujian's coastal areas unique characteristics of the South, especially since the Qing Dynasty. "anti-Fu" began to "knight" finally, the legendary martial arts novels and television occupy an important position, For instance, Fujian Shaolin, the legend is a stronghold of the anti-, there massing Sanshanwuyue HONGMEN children and the Xia-spender. 清兵火烧南少林，洪熙官来到广州，隐居在大佛寺，与佛缘和尚共开武馆。Burning Shaolin stages, Hongxiguan Guangzhou, lived in Buddhist temples, monks and Buddhist margin of a total and then went. 又如方世玉，为广东“少林十虎”第二人（第一人为洪熙官），其母苗翠花是“少林五老”中的苗显之女，有“一 代女侠”之称。As world; for Guangdong "Shaolin 10 tiger" the second (the first artificial Hongxiguan) his mother Miaocuihua "Shaolin Oro," the Miao's remarkable women, "Woman generation," said. 方世玉成为《少林小英雄》、《万年青》、《方世玉三探武当山》、《乾隆游江<BR>南》等众多侠文化作品的主人公，晚清南拳又出现了“广东十虎”，其中的第三位铁桥三、第五位苏乞儿，也是许 多侠文化作品中的主人公。World; as "Shaolin Hero," "ait", "world; three exploration Wudang Mountain," "Qianlong <BR> South Jiang Yu," and many other works of Xia culture hero, the late Qing Dynasty nanquan which led to the "Guangdong 10 Tiger", The Tie-3 third, fifth Suqier, Xia also many cultural works of heroine.

[hskwarrior]

Hoping remained on the Kung Fu -- Hongjiadu punches

2002-10-21 20:36:00 大洋网2002-10-21 20:36:00 Post ANALYSIS



　　







　　洪家拳Hongjiadu punches

　　南拳拳种之一。Nanquan one of the fifteen. 俗称洪拳，相传已有300多年的发展历史，在广东流行甚广，是广东“洪、刘、蔡、李、莫”五大拳之首。Co mmonly known as the Hong Quan style Chinese kung fu, is said to have been 300 years of development history, very popular in Guangdong, Canton, Guangdong, "Hung Liu, Tsai, Lee, Mo "is the first five games. 其流传区域亦广，如四川、湖北、湖南、广西、陕西等地，在香港、澳门、澳洲、美国、加拿大及东南亚一些国家 和地区也颇有影响。Regional also spread widely, such as Sichuan, Hubei, Hunan, Guangxi, Shaanxi, in Hong Kong, Macau, Australia, the United States, Canada and some Southeast Asian countries and regions were also affected. 据说系清代民间秘密结社洪门假托少林所传习的一种拳术。Qing Dynasty is said to be a secret association of civil HONGMEN pretensions Shaolin Chuan as a martial arts exercise. 洪门相传创于清康熙十三年(1674)。HONGMEN legend of Kangxi of the Qing Dynasty founded in 13 years (1674). 另传起于清顺治十八年(1661)明将郑成功在台湾创立的“金台山”，该组织以明太祖朱元漳年号“洪武”的 “洪”字立门，故称洪门。Another mass at 18 years of Qing Dynasty (1661) and tomorrow will be Zheng Chenggong in Taiwan to start the "Golden Taishan" The organization decorated the founder of the Ming Zhu Yuanzhang "Hongwu" "Hung" up doors, it HONGMEN said. 推行与从事洪拳练习，以练习武艺为名，发展组织，宣传反清复明思想。Hong Quan style Chinese kung fu and engage in the implementation of practice to practice Wushu the name of development organizations, and promote anti-Fuming thinking. 此说尚未得到可靠证实。That has not yet been proven reliable. 湖北洪拳，假托宋太祖所创，根据民传闻“赵匡胤三十二手定天下”之说，其拳名义溯“手”字命名，如：总手、 封手、金刚手等，此拳由于受武当影响，还出现了九官手、老君堂等套路。Hubei Hong Quan style Chinese kung fu, Song Taizu pretensions created, according to the rumors "Zhao Kuangyin hand set 32 world," said TYSON its name back "in hand" name, such as : total hands, hands closed and the Golden hands, because this Wudang boxing, also a nine official hand Laojuntang and other routines.

　　洪拳是以龙、虎、狮、豹、蛇、鹤、象、马、猴、虎的象形与特性结合武术技法创编而成。Ho ng Quan style Chinese kung fu is the dragon, tiger, lion, leopard, the snake, Hok, like, horse, monkey, Tiger Pictography characteristics combined with martial arts techniques from Creation. 有单形拳术，如龙拳、虎拳等；亦有混合形拳术，如虎鹤双形拳、五形拳、十形拳等。A single-martial arts, such as Lontrel, tiger fist; Also mixed-martial arts, like a tiger-shaped crane double punch, five-punch, punch, etc.-10. 其风格特点是：手法丰富，腿法较少，步稳势烈，硬桥硬马，刚劲有力，以气催力，以声助威。It s style is characterized by : means rich, legs law less stable situation further strong, tough hard Ma Bridge, vigorous and effective, a reminder of gas, sound of cheering. 湖北洪门拳劲刚势猛，故有“洪门一头牛，打死不回头”之说。Hubei potential HONGMEN Quan Jin Meng Gang, therefore, "HONGMEN a cow, killing Do not look back," said. 四川洪门拳还有南北两派之分。Sichuan HONGMEN punches factions still divided into north and south. 南派要求形、意、气、力、声的高度统一，主张以力服人，以威取胜，硬打直上，劲透过身，刚劲有力；北派拳势 舒展，招式清晰，四平大马，扁侧进击，闪展灵活，发劲含蓄，拳势威猛，刚劲有力。Southe rn request form, Italy, gas, power, the sound of a high degree of unity and advocates of persuasive, Granville to win, hitting straight, strong through the body, vigorous and effective; North sent Quanshi stretch, strokes clear, Siping Malaysia, side-attack, flash development flexibility, the King implicit Quanshi powerful, bold powerful.

　

[hskwarrior]

5 HONGMEN

　　洪门在四川流行甚广，分布于成都、重庆、乐山、万县、达县、涪陵等地。HONGMEN very popular in Guangdong, Sichuan, located in Chengdu, Chongqing, Leshan, Wanxian and Daxian, Fuling and other places. 有南北派之分。Send a distinction between North and South. 南派注重精、气、神一体。Southern emphasis on precision, energy and spirit of integration. 内外兼修，以威取胜，以声催力，凶猛异常。Out to win Granville to sound reminders, fierce anomaly. 北派招式四平大马，清晰舒展，旋腕翻臂，善守善攻。North allocation formulas Siping Malaysia, clear stretch, tilt-arm wrist over, a good guard good attack. 两者均注重眼神逼人，正面迎敌；动作大开大合，手脚并重。Both focus on the eyes of pressing, positive intercept; Moves very open and generous with, both hands and feet. 防御多用小臂格挡，即为“袖内藏珠”之法：“来得高往上挑，来得矮往下斩，不高不矮用手排。” Arm more with defense Gedang, namely "sleeves of Tibetan beads," France : "pick up even more, more dwarf chopped down, not high dwarf hand row. "

　　洪门拳种的套路除大小洪拳外，有近70个功架，如缠手、五虎捶、二路红、燕青红、大八仙等，器械有青龙 剑、峨眉短棍、五秀刀、蹯龙枪、春秋刀、棍、凳等。HONGMEN fifteen addition to the size of Hong Quan style Chinese kung fu routines, nearly 70 Mouements, Chanshou, hung hammer, two-way red, Yan Qing - hong, the Eight Immortals, equipment Tsing Lung sword, Emei Batons, and 5 show a knife, District Longqiang and Autumn Annals knives, sticks, chairs and tables, and so on.

六 化门Six of the door

　　化门亦称蚕闭门，“蚕”即行拳时如吞之吐丝，连绵不断。Of closed doors, also known as Silkworm, "Silkworm" is OK if he punches swallowed's silking, down. 闭即应敌时紧封敌手，避实就虚。Shall be closed when the enemy tight closure opponents, and Piloting. 也有人认为化门名称以源，在于手法多变，颇有花梢之意，但又不同于花拳，故名化门。It was also suggested that the name of the door to the source, is varying and spent quite shoot agreement, but unlike Huaquan found in the door of.

　　化门的风格和洪门相反，没有大开大合的动作，却以柔化、小巧为主，多用手腕“制化敌劲，引进落空”，其 牵缘手法有化开对方进攻之意。The style of the door and HONGMEN the contrary, there is no large-scale movements of a large, but to soften, mainly compact, Multi-use wrist "system of the enemy's efforts, the introduction of deceptive", led by its geopolitical way in the other side of the opening attack was intended. 此拳种重视单手练习，主要手法是：巴、探、挂、拿等，要点是“掌不离腮，肘不离怀”，发拳时每一手，挠头钩 挂，讲究手脚轻快。This fifteen to one-hand exercises, the main approach is : Palestine, and second, linked with other, the gist of which is "Exercising pretty gills, elbow pretty Huai," Boxer made when each hand, scratch one's head hook linked stress deft hands.

　　化门中的典型套路是三十六闭手，三十六闭手又称四川南拳，也叫“天罡手”（俗称天罡星三十六），其内容 丰富，方法多变，攻防严密，刚柔并济，具有远踢近收，远手近肘的特点。Gate of the typical routines of 36 closed hand, also known as the 36 closed hand Sichuan nanquan, also called "Tian-gang hand" (commonly known as Tiangangxing 36), rich in content, methods varied, offensive tight, and the coil and the economy, have received nearly kicked far, far hands near elbow characteristics. 此外尚有二十四贴身靠、大连拳、八化拳、白虎鞭、抱月双刀、七星拜月、披棍等几十种拳协功法。Additi onally, there are close on 24, Dalian punches, eight of boxing, white tiger *****, with double-hold on, the star worship, such disclosure stick dozens of punches to assist law. 目前分布流传于成都、重庆、南充、内江、万县、涪陵等地。Distribution of the current spread in Chengdu, Chongqing, Nanchong, Neijiang, Wanxian, Fuling and other places.

[hskwarrior]

Erasmus,

I think based on whats above that EMEI is probably the system you are thinking of.


hsk

[hskwarrior]

okay,

i could be right on this....i hope........

this is what i've found....its the english (garbage) translation..........

Emei camp

　　峨眉派之得名，是以佛教四大名山之峨眉山而起的，它与洪门天地会之“峨眉山”不同，洪门的“峨眉山”是 山堂而出于虚构，峨眉派的“峨眉”是地名，是实指。Emei camp's name is based on the four famous Buddhist Emeishan's stead, It will have HONGMEN "Emeishan" different, HONGMEN "Emeishan" mountains out of court and fictitious, Emei camp "Emei" is the name is actually refers.

　　从宗教渊源上看，峨眉亦僧亦道，而以道姑为主。From a religious roots, Monk has also Emei Road, but mainly Nuns. 在武侠小说中，金庸《倚天屠龙记》说是郭靖幼女郭襄，因为心中爱慕杨过，而又尊敬杨过与小龙女的爱情，所以 云游天下，借此畅解胸中块垒。In kung fu, a professor in "Heavenly Sword and Dragon Saber" said Guo Jing Guo Xiang young girls, because the hearts of love heroic Yang Guo, When the hero Yang Guo and respect and love instance, the Wandering the world to know what ideas Cheong solution. 后得机会听觉远念涌《九阳真经》，创立峨眉派，后来传至灭绝师太，其弟子纪晓芙、周芷若等，皆为道姑，此外 ，峨眉派的许多招式，也都具有女性的色彩。After hearing a chance Nien Chung Yuan "Jiuyangzhenjing", the creation of Emei camp, and later inspired extinction Actors, Jixiaofu his disciples, Zhouzhire, Nuns were, in addition, many of Emei send formulas are also all female cast.

　　峨眉派功法介于少林阳刚与武当阴柔之间，亦柔亦刚，内外相重，长短并用。Emei send Shaolin gong between masculinity and gentleness between Wudang, Sophie has just outside and the equivalent weight, and length of use.

[hskwarrior]

wow, you got my interest up......

so this is also something i found

http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://www.jysdj.com/show.aspx%3Fid%3D112%26cid%3D47&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25E6%25B4%25AA%25E9%2596%2580%25E6%2 58B%25B3%26start%3D10%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DRNWE,RNWE: 2005-39,RNWE:en%26sa%3DN

[Erasmus Mingatt]

hskwarrior,

WOW!!! Thank you for your research and through posting. I'm not sure if it is a problem with my browser..or perhaps I need a "region 3 decoder"(to translate chinese)..but there are all these question marks on the threads you list. Plus the way it's phrased...part of it looks more like a list of random words that don't have a real sentence structure. As such..it makes it challenging to decipher.

I'm not saying that to be smug or anything..I'm not sure if you notice the same think on your computer.

Incidentally, are you the sifu on the website on your profile or one of his students?

I have heard that there is the HS CLF as well as the Buk Sing. One of them I recall has lots of forms..perhaps 200 or so.

Someone was telling me recently that one of the other lineages has considerably less..I believe less than 30..is this Hung Sing or Buk Sing?

Are you affiliated with GM Doc Fai Wong at all?

Thanks again for your enlightening posts!

Regards,
EM

[bakxierboxer]

Well...what gives fellas? Is the society THAT SECRET that even after it stopped being secret(aka: the outside world was informed that it existed after the end of the Ming--beginning of the Ching)..that STILL in this day and age..noone knows anything beyond that "they had their own kf"?

It's really odd..don't ya think?

Well.... they're "secret enough" that they've been relatively successful at "hiding in plain sight" for something over a hundred years.

[bakxierboxer]

"Because the character "hung" was used in the reign name of the emperor who overthrew the Mongol Yuan Dynasty to establish the Han Chinese Ming Dynasty, opponents of the Manchu Qing Dynasty made frequent use of the character in their imagery. (Ironically, Luk Ah-Choi was the son of a Manchu stationed in Guangdong.) Hung Hei-Gun is itself an assumed name intended to honor that first Ming Emperor. Anti-Qing rebels named the most far reaching of the secret societies they formed the "Hung Mun" which, like "Hung Gar," can be translated as "Hung family." The Hung Mun claimed to be founded by survivors of the destruction of the Shaolin Temple, and the martial arts its members practiced came to be called "Hung Gar" and "Hung Kuen."

this was taken from the martialartsgathering website.................

I like it.
In addition, "Mun"/"Muen" is often taken as meaning "gate" which is more similar to "Pai" or "sect" than it is to "family".... varying "levels" of restrictiveness and/or "secrecy".

[hskwarrior]

double "B" cool. thanks for your input.

I've been fortunate to read the Hung Mun book thats out of print now.......but there is some real interesting things from back.

From that book, and amongst other sources.......man of the southern Chinese men changed their first names to include HUNG in it to show their support.

but im not sure what origins Hung Mun Kuen has. emei? hubei? not sure. but they said there's a hung mun hard qigong shaolin form out there.

[bakxierboxer]

double "B" cool. thanks for your input.

Sure... it wasn't that much.


I've been fortunate to read the Hung Mun book thats out of print now.......but there is some real interesting things from back.

I wasn't aware that there WAS "a book".


From that book, and amongst other sources.......man of the southern Chinese men changed their first names to include HUNG in it to show their support.

Interesting.... OTOH, there were names and "there were names"....
Having multiple names was not particularly uncommon in "certain circles".


but im not sure what origins Hung Mun Kuen has. emei? hubei? not sure. but they said there's a hung mun hard qigong shaolin form out there.

I'm not in a position that I can say with any certainty that there was NOT a specific "Hung Men Kuen". OTOH, "lately", they haven't been particularly picky about what was being taught in their hall.... or even their "youth affiliate".
That said, they're pretty much sure to be southern fist of one style or another, since I've yet to hear of any northern style being taught there.

[hskwarrior]

yeah there was a book written by someone who infiltrated the Hung Mun, and pretty much documented everything he could from rituals to names and dates.

my sifu has a copy of this book. very cool reading.

[Erasmus Mingatt]

Speaking of door/gate,etc.

I can't remember just how I came across this school..but it is called "Hung Mei"(The Eyebrow or Face of Hung). They have schools in NY and Colorado. Anyway..They have some forms I have not heard of yet. I called them once and Sifu Solo was pretty down to earth. He gave me the translation of some of the names..about 5-6 forms..I can't find where I wrote it but I will post it soon. Some had interesting names such as "Rock Lion form" and "4 door 8 directional fist"(I believe).The "Juen" according to him is the phonetical pronunciation of Chuan. Anyway..check this out. I wonder if this school has relations to Hung Mun also. Anyway--does anyone know the translation to these?

"From Tai Zŭ (Southern): 太祖 (南拳)

Shù Quán 術拳
Yīng Zhuă 鷹爪
Tai Xíng Quán 太行拳

From Fú Jian (Southern): 褔建 (南拳)

Yī Mén 一門 Sì Mén 四門
Èr Mén 二門 Liù Mén 六門
Sān Mén 三門 Bā Mén 八門

From Yŏng Quán (Southern): 永泉 (南拳)

Shí Zì Quán 十字拳 Qī Shí Èr Dì Shā 七十二地煞
Jīn Mén Quán 金門拳 Wŭ Lĭ Quán 五嶺拳
Sān Shí Liù Tiān Gōng 三十六天宮

Tai Jí (Southern): 太極 (南拳)

Tai Jí Quán 太極拳
Xiăo Fāng Jiā 小方家
Lóng Hŭ Quán 龍虎拳

From Shān Dōng (Northern): 山東 (北拳)

Tán Tuĭ 彈腿 Bā Gua Quán 八卦拳
Fú Hŭ Quán 伏虎拳 Dì Lóng Quán 地龍拳
Hēi Hŭ Quán 黑虎拳 Da Hung Quán 大洪拳
Bā Duan Toan Quán 八段拳 Xiăo Hung Quán 小洪拳


The first Set the student learns is Tai Zŭ Yīng Zhuă (太祖鷹爪) (Eagle Claw form). The Set not only teaches applications of the Eagle Claw technique, but is also an excellent way to introduce the pupil to stance shifts, dynamic tension exercises and releases from wrist grabs. Subsequently, the student learns the series, "Tán Tuĭ" (彈腿), from the province of Shān Dōng (山東). Tán Tuĭ (彈腿) is practiced by many styles of Northern Kung Fu. There are 12 sequences in the series taught in Hung Méi. Some other styles have combined several of the sequences and now teach ten. Tán Tuĭ (彈腿) introduces the students to many different hand techniques, kicks, stances sweeps, shifts, etcetera, and forms the foundation for future applications.

[bakxierboxer]

yeah there was a book written by someone who infiltrated the Hung Mun, and pretty much documented everything he could from rituals to names and dates.

:eek:
Is he still around? :D

[bakxierboxer]

I can't remember just how I came across this school..but it is called "Hung Mei"(The Eyebrow or Face of Hung)....

Usually taken to mean "Red Brow".
I usually write the family name as "H'ung"
Trying to distinguish it from the near-soundex equivalents of "Hung"/"Hong" which are usually "Red"/"Flood" respectively.



They have schools in NY and Colorado. Anyway..They have some forms I have not heard of yet. I called them once and Sifu Solo was pretty down to earth. He gave me the translation of some of the names..about 5-6 forms..I can't find where I wrote it but I will post it soon. Some had interesting names such as "Rock Lion form" and "4 door 8 directional fist"(I believe).The "Juen" according to him is the phonetical pronunciation of Chuan. Anyway..check this out. I wonder if this school has relations to Hung Mun also. Anyway--does anyone know the translation to these?

IME, "XXX"-Mei are usually southern and/or Hakka.
Those form names could easily be from a southern/Hakka/Mantis style.....


The first Set the student learns is Tai Zŭ Yīng Zhuă (太祖鷹爪) (Eagle Claw form). The Set not only teaches applications of the Eagle Claw technique, but is also an excellent way to introduce the pupil to stance shifts, dynamic tension exercises and releases from wrist grabs. Subsequently, the student learns the series, "Tán Tuĭ" (彈腿), from the province of Shān Dōng (山東). Tán Tuĭ (彈腿) is practiced by many styles of Northern Kung Fu. There are 12 sequences in the series taught in Hung Méi. Some other styles have combined several of the sequences and now teach ten. Tán Tuĭ (彈腿) introduces the students to many different hand techniques, kicks, stances sweeps, shifts, etcetera, and forms the foundation for future applications.

Tai Zu, Eagle Claw, Tan Tui are mostly northern.
Tan Tui is also Muslim origin, and has come to mean/refer-to "Spring Leg" and doesn't have a whole lot of high-level hand-work. The 12 sequences are often referred to as "12 roads".
Different lineages have different numbers of "roads", but they are all pretty much basic/beginner/foundation sets.... pretty much as you said.

[Erasmus Mingatt]

I'm going to post this question again as a separate post by itself to give it some more visability but while I still have your attention guys..I was hoping to get some feedback on this..

I have heard of some styles of Hung Kuen that are considered "Hung" styles..yet not necessarily Hung Ga..yet at the same time..not the same as Hong Quan(the Northern long fist system-with the forms Da Hong Quan, Siu Hong Quan).

From what I gather..it would seem that the "Hung" name in martial arts in terms of surnames,etc...is more like the surname Smith?

Insofar as I could be "Erasmus Smith" and Sifu Frank could be "Frank Smith"(just as an illustration) yet neither of us could be related at all..not a single blood relative. Only common thread is the last name...

So carrying over that analogy to Hung styles..does it then follow for example that you could have 2 "Hung Kuens"..but the only thing they have in common is the first word "Hung"?

I know my explanation is not the best..but I am curious to know what any of you may think. Thank you.

EM

[hskwarrior]

im not sure if it's still going, but i thought there was a battle over two different types of Hung Ga?

[Asmo]

yeah there was a book written by someone who infiltrated the Hung Mun, and pretty much documented everything he could from rituals to names and dates.

my sifu has a copy of this book. very cool reading.

This book you mean?
http://www.amazon.com/Hung-Society-Heaven-Earth/dp/0766153827/ref=sr_1_1/104-1568665-7885553?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182669515&sr=8-1

I have it as well, its *thick* havent found the time yet to read through it.

Seems there is another book as well (reprint most liekly of above book, looking at the subtitle)
http://www.amazon.com/Triads-Society-Heaven-Earth-Library/dp/0710312040/ref=sr_1_4/104-1568665-7885553?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182669515&sr=8-4

[Erasmus Mingatt]

War? Now that I've never heard of. If you go to www.HungKuen.net there is a joint statement made by both GM Frank Yee and GM Lum Jo(Tang Fun and Lam Sai Wing lineages respectively). If anything it seems to be a honoring of eachothers respective lineages.

I'm enjoying this thread..

I absolutely must have a copy of that book!!

All of this talk almost makes me want to go back to studying Hung Ga. I've heard Master John Leong's school to be very well established.

We'll see...

It's just that I don't like to cross fertilize study time so to speak. I've been studying and gaining alot from 8 step mantis..it's alot of things that Hung is not..but I can also say the same vice versa..

So many styles..so little time...

[jdhowland]

My sifu, Tse Cheuk-Tong is a general in the Hung Mun. He was never secretive about it, even advertised that he was honored to be a member. At the same time, nothing was ever spoken about training in the Hung League. One of his sons mentioned that if another group of lion dancers were in the presence of our lion, the other school's lion would have to bow to ours. I always assumed this was because of the Hung association. Tse sifu practiced Tibetan White Crane, Hop Ga and Choy Lee Fut, among other things, and taught some of these arts to members of various tongs.

[Firehawk4]

In Leung Tings books Five Patteren Hung Kuen in the Tiger section it says
Tactics of this form are twofold , namely the Hung Mun (Red Sect ) tactic in wich open attacks are adopted and the Hak Mun (Black Sect ) tactic in wich surprise attacks are adopted . Techniques of this form are classified under the two terms White Tiger and Black Tiger .
then it list poetic names for techniques from these sects .

[jdhowland]

[QUOTE=Erasmus Mingatt;772430]
Does anyone know of any forms..or their names..or what their kf resembles?QUOTE]


Hi. Resurrecting an old thread because of some new (to me) info from a friend who is an enforcer in the Hung Mun.

Don't know of any universally accepted or unique Hung Mun style. BUT...my contact teaches a form of Bak Mei (White Eyebrow) within the Mun that he will not teach outsiders. He implied that this branch of Bak Mei was passed on only within the Hung League.

2 questions I didn't think to ask at the time:
1) Is this relationship between the Hung and Bak Mei in honor of a particular master who once served the Hung Mun?
2) Is this a widespread association or peculiar to certain branches in Southeast Asia and the western U.S.?

Be well.

John