is there such thing as a chi?

[funnykungfu]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5A7J1fICCEA&mode=related&search=

The above thingy can't be real, can't it? :eek:

[NJM]

I'm going to be honest here, and say that this guy is at least partially for real.

[Erasmus Mingatt]

I don't know about the above video..but there was this dude named Ken Gullette(when I lived in the midwest) who claimed to be a sifu in internal arts(claimed he studied TC, HS-Y, BG) and yet claimed that Chi was a myth.

The guy even touted that he was a member of the "James Randi" society which conclusively "proved" that chi is not possible .

The guy..besides being wrong..even offered people a website: www.chimyth.com

What's funniest of all is the guy claimed to be an internal arts sifu and yet says chi is impossible.

It's like me being a Hung Ga sifu and yet saying "Shaolin temple was a myth".

I wonder what this idiots former instructors must think of his claim.

His website is something like www.qckungfu.com (he lived in the quad cities in Iowa).

Shame that fools like this exist. But then I guess he joins a long list of people with questionable backgrounds: Simon Olaf, Sin Kwang The, the found of Oom Young Do(can't remember his name), James Lacey and other misfits.

Someone outa call this guy out and give him a slap across the nose with a rolled up newspaper..Bad..Bad doggie!!!

[golden arhat]

first off DO SOME READING before u come on here asking dumb questions

now u would have got ur answer if u watched the video

its a little bit of both its a bit of mind control as well as real skill

in regards to chi tho
entire philosophies, many martial arts systems and partially even a religion are based around or strongly influenced by chi
so it must hold some water

my mma/valetudo believes in chi
he used to do hung gar and to be honest u experience stuff that science just can not explain
i have felt chi

so yes i would say that chi is real


make up you're own mind

[Shaolin Wookie]

Chi=life force, energy, breath, blood flow.

In other words: body mechanics, coordination, exhalation in striking (just like in weightlifting).

Anything else I chalk up to martial mythology.

[scholar]

Chi is real, but like some of the guys above say, it isn't the magical Star Wars force that people play it up to be.

It is breathing, breath. That simple. That's mostly what it means in everyday Chinese.

Of course, there are still some people who are really really good at "breathing"... :D

[Shaolin Wookie]

That's why I almost never refer to chi.

It's not a very accurate way to describe something. Chi is supposedly so diverse, but it's composed of very down-to-earth things like coordination, breath, etc. So why not say breath, coordination, etc?

It's the general interpretation of it that leads to chi demos and quackery. Like the candle blowout chi-projection. KIAI!!!!!!!

I surprised you. Did you just lose consciousness?

******!

If you have good coordination and speed, you can generate enough snap in your technique to cause of ripple of wind to fly towards the candle and blow out the flame. You can do the same thing with your breath with half the effort, though.

Either way, it wasn't chi, per say. It was either breath or speed. In either scenario, it was the motion of the air, directed by a body function.

[Fu-Pow]

Chi not real in the sense of some separate material entity. I think it is a heightened body awareness that comes from practicing in a semi-meditative state.

[Shaolinlueb]

this guy has some pretty good people on. where as dim mak chi. its all in what you believe. there is a life force that surrounds you i think. you have to experience chi i think to believe in it.

[Corwyn]

in regards to chi tho
entire philosophies, many martial arts systems and partially even a religion are based around or strongly influenced by chi
so it must hold some water


Oh, this is PRICELESS. I think it has got to be the best quote I read on the internet this year ..

can we start sacrificing vestal virgins and piercing our genitals too??
literally BILLIONS of people believed that these practices brought bountiful crops, good health and wealth so this must hold Olympics sized swimming pools full of water

On a more serious note - 1000s of people are at this VERY moment practicing to strap bombs to their bodies in order to kill US soldiers, women and children and themselves so they can go to heaven, based on the same imbecilic thinking you expressed - well other people did and beleive it so it must be right.

[Shaolin Wookie]

can we start sacrificing vestal virgins and piercing our genitals too??.

Didn't you get the memo?

We've already begun the revolution.

And what's this I hear about you having trouble with your TPS reports?

[golden arhat]

Oh, this is PRICELESS. I think it has got to be the best quote I read on the internet this year ..

can we start sacrificing vestal virgins and piercing our genitals too??
literally BILLIONS of people believed that these practices brought bountiful crops, good health and wealth so this must hold Olympics sized swimming pools full of water

On a more serious note - 1000s of people are at this VERY moment practicing to strap bombs to their bodies in order to kill US soldiers, women and children and themselves so they can go to heaven, based on the same imbecilic thinking you expressed - well other people did and beleive it so it must be right.

ignore list

[NJM]

Oh, this is PRICELESS. I think it has got to be the best quote I read on the internet this year ..

can we start sacrificing vestal virgins and piercing our genitals too??
literally BILLIONS of people believed that these practices brought bountiful crops, good health and wealth so this must hold Olympics sized swimming pools full of water

On a more serious note - 1000s of people are at this VERY moment practicing to strap bombs to their bodies in order to kill US soldiers, women and children and themselves so they can go to heaven, based on the same imbecilic thinking you expressed - well other people did and beleive it so it must be right.

Erm, I think you need some chill pills, pronto.

[mantis108]

Qi is an integral part of the pugilistic anatomy from the TCMA perspecitve. We may consider Qi as the expression or the state of the mind-body continuum; thus, Qi would be perceived as the mindfulness of action. It's also an expression of ordered order, which could be interpreted as a form of intelligent design (but let's not jump too far ahead for now ;) ). It has discipline democracy meaning everyone has it and any martial discipline can develop it if it chooses to. Whether you want to acknowledge it or how you perceive it, it's a entirely different matter. IMHO as long as you are doing martial arts with your mind-body continuum with regards of all known physics disciplines thus far available rather than seperating the mind and body (ie going through with motion, acting theatrics or imagining moves in your head) you have the expression of Qi. So the no touch knock out is a hoax rather than a proof of the existence of Qi with regard of the realm of real martial arts.

In short, sound mind-body continuum, sound Qi.

Mantis108

[cjurakpt]

ok - one more time for the folks in the balcony:

it's very simple guys: "qi" is a metaphor; it is a qualitative, and in a way highly subjective (and historically succesful) descriptor for the total set of functional interelationships that occur in the body and in the environment within which the body functions (basically, the universe); it looks at the net effect of many different processes that at one time could not be observed independently, but as a functional whole could be observed and qualified (notice I don't say quantified: TCM in its original form was not looking at lab values or EKG's - it looks at tongue color/texture, pulse qualities - these are all qualitative descriptors as well);

the reason that it persisted for so long as a useful concept is that, as a technology it has very good predictive value: this is because over a long period of time, using a relatively internally consistent system (e.g. Chinese medicine), people observing how the human organism functioned under various situations gathered a great deal of empirical data and passed it on in the form of semi-linear pattern recognition; in other words, using "qi" as a concept tells you a lot about the "how" on a macro level; it doesn't, however, tell you that much about the "what" or the "how" on a cellular level, because the technology didn't exist to tell you all that; knowing the macro-"how", you can certainly be effective in many ways, but knowing the "what" and micro"how" is ultimately more effective;

so, in the last 110 years, we have learned more about the "what" and micro"how" than all of human history combined; we have imaged and observed things down to a level that is unprecedented; so why haven't we "found" "qi"? simple; it's because "qi" is NOT an independent "entity"; it is NOT a discreet "force" that exists independent from other things; it is not something that one can emmanate from their finger tips - even if there were such a thing, that would not be "qi" per se: it would be something like telekinetic energy (which, to date, has not been observed by any reliable means anywhere); "qi" is not electrical current, heat, kinetic energy, magnetic fields: these are all measurable things, and they all occur naturally in the human body; they all participate in physiological function, and are therefore encompassed by the descriptor of "qi"

the whole phenommenon of throwing someone across the room or "KOing" them can be described quite easily: stimulation of the autonomic nervous system (controls BP, HR, RR, digestion, emesis, sweating, temperature control, certain types of muscle function, and, of course the adrenaline fight/flight response) will generate all the strange effects observed; as the ANS can be impacted through things like hypnosis, entrainment, mob psychology you can subconsciously program yourself or be programmed to have autonomic effects with the right trigger - if you observe others and then pattern their responses to what your teacher is doing for years on end, no shocks that he can KO you with little effort (and in all liklihood, you are predisposed to it any way, since the people searching out and studying with teachers like that are the ones who want that sort of thing to be real anyway); self-fulfilling prophecy, nothing more nothing less - so, in a way, what you see is real, but it is a reality that is very context dependent...

and BTW, as far as the whole notion of what "qi" is - if it was going to be anything it would be breath - although it's more than just the air that you take in and breathe out: it's also the function of the respiratory mechanism (lungs, diaphragm); and because breath is a basic aspect of all physiological function, it is a good place to start when looking at how the human body works, especially when you don't have x-rays and lab tests: breath effects everything from blood oxygenation to proper digestion to muscle function; so "qi" is a pretty pragmatic concept to begin with, not some mumbo jumbo mystical BS; actually, the etymology of the character for "qi" is a depiction of vapor rising off of rice: basically describing the process of fermentation...pretty "earthy" origins...

so cut the cr@p guys: free yourselves from seeking the extraordinary - enjoy the profoundly ordinary, such as it is...