CLF in HK?

[Satori Science]

Does any one know anything about a CLF Master Ho Ngau, (I believe thats how you would write his name). My Sifu told me that he was the most senior member of the Hung Hsing CLF in Hong Kong in the 1970's, when he last lived there??

Anyone (Frank perhaps?) heard of this guy or no anything about him?

[Shaolinlueb]

frank, or clfnole and soychow might be able to help you with this.

[CLFNole]

Ho Ngau passed away a long time ago in believe in the 70s. He is hung sing through Chan Koon Pak's hung sing if I recall correctly and I think was a student of Ngan Yiu Ting. Ngan Yiu Ting was the CLF sifu that Tam Sam had the fight with before Lui Chan had to expel him.

[Eddie]

the chow gar sifu down here gave me a book by Ho Ngau that covers CLF wooden dummy. I missed placed the book now, but it was pretty old.

[Satori Science]

Thanks CLF Nole, that helps a lot.

I was really curious if there was any conection, or what exactly the connection was between Bak Hsing and Master Ho Ngau. Frank posted a link to a vid a day or two ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf_snOHmTCg

Frank thought this was Bak Hsing when he posted it, and to be honest the movements in this form are in same order as the first half of my Sup Tse with the last ten movements tacked on at the end. I showed it to my Sifu last night and he said the same, "It's Sup Tse Kuen" but then I got him to read the Master's name for me (as its written on youtube in Chinese) and he said it read Master Ho Ngau. He also said that it wasn't exactly the same form as it is played different and the hoi jong is different too.

In any case its a Hung Hsing master& form but in the exactly the same order as mine. If this is the same Ho Ngua that my Sifu met in 1971, then he also told me that Tam Fei Pang called him brother when they met.

Pretty neat, I was fairly surprised

[CLFNole]

Yes he is Hung Sing but really the Chan Family Hung Sing by way of Chan Koon Pak not Jeong Yim. Whether or not that video is Ho Ngau I am not sure as I thought he would have looked older from pictures I have seen of him.

[jdhowland]

Ho Ngau was my sigung. He was a student of Ngan Yiu-Ting and also learned from Chan Kun-Pak. After the communist takeover he began teaching in the New Territories and may still have students in Gwangdung. My sifu brought him to Honolulu a couple of years before he passed away. Even as an 80-year-old opium addict his moves were impressive. We inherited the wooden man and seven other sets from him. My sihing, Pat Ling may still be teaching in Honolulu. Ngan Cho Keung (Ngan Yiu-Ting's grandson) teaches what must be a closely related tradition in San Francisco. I have communicated to him through one of his students and he agrees that the Ngan branch is unique in North America but seems to remain close to what the Chan/Chen family is doing. Ho Ngau and Cheuk Tse were among those instrumental in creating the Chan Heung Memorial Association.

[CLFNole]

JD:

Who is your sifu? I didn't Ho Ngau had any students teaching in North America. I have always heard good things about Ho Sifu.

[jdhowland]

Jeh Cheuk-Tong, better known as Cheuk Tse, is my sifu. As far as I know, I am the only one teaching Ho Ngau's style in North America. I keep hoping I'm wrong about that.

btw I think the Bak Sing-Hung Sing relationship is closer than some think. My understanding is that the Bak Sing branch wasn't intended to be a different style but was simply an abbreviated name for Siu Bak Hung Sing. When I was trying to find other CLF practitioners to train with on "the mainland" in the mid-70's I met Stan Mak who was a student of Tam Fei-Pang. I was only able to train with Mr. Mak for a few months before he moved away, but I found no stylistic differences between his Bak Sing and the little Hung Sing I knew at that time.

CLF is one great family.

[CLFNole]

I agree with you on that.

[hskwarrior]

satori,

thats NOT ho ngau.

I forget his name, but its not even Ho. but he is a buk sing guy partly because he does a buk sing bow.

Now one thing ALL buk Sing and Hung SIng MUST remember......

the three CLF forms buk sing DOES have are Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut. But they have developed its look to become identifiable to Buk Sing CLF.

I've recently jus discovered for myself many many of the same techniques from my lineage that are in buk sing's clf........but they have their way of doing things and so do we. even in schools like Chui Kwong Yuen which is the closest thing-material wise-to the Yuen Hai lineage....have their way of doing the same things.

buk sing's Kau da hoi jong is much much like hung sing's except what we have are alot of palms in our hoi jong while buk sing uses tiger claws. but with that in mind and the ability to step back for a sec and think objectively.........anyone can see the similarities. Hell, I didn't until i've encountered the Chui Kwong Yuen school.

anyways, getting back to the topic, Nah, that wasn't Ho Ngau and yes Ho Ngau was a Top Student of Ngan Yiu Ting.

[hskwarrior]

jd,

Chiu Siu Kai i believe was a student of Ho Ngau, and Chiu Siu Kai teaches here in the sf bay area.

[CLFNole]

Frank:

Chui Siu Kei was a student of To Hon Cheung.

Remember Choy Kwong Yuen is a mix of hung sing and buk sing as his pops Choy Cheung also followed Tam Sam.

Peace.

[hskwarrior]

CLFNOLE<

I've spoken to Chiu Siu Kai who was also helpful in getting the wooden dummy book completed. However, Troy Dunwood knows Chiu Siu Kay more than I do, however i believe chiu siu kay told me he studied under ho ngau at some point.

Chui Cheung was both hung sing and Buk Sing, but Chui Cheung was one of those opposed to tam sam changing the name to buk sing.

However, Chui Kwong Yuens hung sing lineage mainly starts at Chan Ngau Sing. But Yuen Hai was Chan Ngau Sing's senior by more than 20 years. after watching chui Kwong Yuen's disciples performing some of their sets, their openings are 95&#37; the same as mines. the closing to their sets are the same as ours too.

but i can see where the buk sing flavor is in their lineage as well. but its nice to finally have someone to relate to.

[CLFNole]

You might be right about Chui Siu Kei, but I know he is typically credited as being a student of To Hon Cheung but he could have followed Ho Ngau as well.

[jdhowland]

jd,

Chiu Siu Kai i believe was a student of Ho Ngau, and Chiu Siu Kai teaches here in the sf bay area.

Thanks for the info. Any idea how I might be able to contact Chiu Siu Kai?

JD

[Buck Sing Gwoon]

satori,

thats NOT ho ngau.

I forget his name, but its not even Ho. but he is a buk sing guy partly because he does a buk sing bow.

Now one thing ALL buk Sing and Hung SIng MUST remember......

the three CLF forms buk sing DOES have are Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut. But they have developed its look to become identifiable to Buk Sing CLF.

I've recently jus discovered for myself many many of the same techniques from my lineage that are in buk sing's clf........but they have their way of doing things and so do we. even in schools like Chui Kwong Yuen which is the closest thing-material wise-to the Yuen Hai lineage....have their way of doing the same things.

buk sing's Kau da hoi jong is much much like hung sing's except what we have are alot of palms in our hoi jong while buk sing uses tiger claws. but with that in mind and the ability to step back for a sec and think objectively.........anyone can see the similarities. Hell, I didn't until i've encountered the Chui Kwong Yuen school.

anyways, getting back to the topic, Nah, that wasn't Ho Ngau and yes Ho Ngau was a Top Student of Ngan Yiu Ting.


Hey Frank,

Looking at this person he is kinda doing the Buck Sing bow. At the beginning his form resembles the beginning of our Buck Sing Ping Kuen....

On stage or when performing people often do a shortened version of their form so its kinda hard to tell exactly..... but in this instance it does look Buck Sing to me anyway.

I'm not sure who the master is tho or where the function/event is at...

Nick
Buck Sing Gwoon

[Satori Science]

Thanks everyone for the info, I was very curious about that after I spoke to Sifu last night.

Nick,
I would agree, like I said when Frank posted the form, it looked like my Sup Tse with a section missing between the middle and the end. Thats the reason I showed it to my Sifu in the first place. I was fairly surpirsed when he said the characters read Ho Ngua, a Hung Hsing master.

That's the reason I asked the question, I actually had the same wooden dummy book at some point and the guy on the cover seemed shorter than the guy in the video.

Frank,
Out of curiosity, do you happen to know who this is?

Cheers,

[hskwarrior]

ill find out

[Mano Mano]

I believe Ho Ngau did have some students in Hong Kong, one I know Chan Yiu used to teach in the New Territories. one of his students called Kevin Steele used to teach CLF in the UK. I’ve seen old video footage sifu Ho Ngau doing CLF and most of the forms that I saw Sup-ji, Moi-fa, Dit- ji- kuen, whisch were being done by the UK branch were practically the same as our forms their forms, That was 20 years ago. Last, I heard the UK sifu Kevin Steele went back to Hong Kong to practice law then moved on to Australia.
I would say the forms were the closest our schools forms I’ve seen outside of Fong Yuk Shu’s lineage.

[gwa sow]

ahh to many names, my head hurts. lets go train.

[hskwarrior]

ok the person in that video is Lee Ngau? not complete on his name, but he was a student of Chui Cheung.