owwwww

[Oso]

so, my friend who mainly does Kempo (the one I was boxing with to help him get ready for a toughman but then he tore his achilles) came by saturday with a couple of students. My friend is still recovering from surgury but we did roll for about 30 minutes.

One of his students I've met and sparred before, he's tall and skinny and is training muay thai. The other one is 19, about 6' and 190...mostly muscle...and has just been training for a few months, also thai.

I've never been kicked in the head as hard as this kid kicked me...totally by reflex did I catch it and sweep his back leg and passed to a side mount, but my head is SORE!

He also wore the hell out of my right leg with thigh kicks and I also think I have at least cracked a bone in the foot trying to check his kicks...stupid me didn't put shin pads on. :o

i'm just going to have to stop going full on with young bucks half my age. it was fun and I look forward to being a part of this kids martial upbringing but I'm going to be laid up w/ no exercise for a week at least.

[Shaolinlueb]

yeah dude! calm down!!!

but nice i guess. :confsued:

[Oso]

lol, sorry, forgot to ...

it was a good day of sparring at the school. my students got to mix it up with some different folks and held there own well enough. I just need me a Redman suit :D

[Ben Gash]

http://www.budovideos.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=23475&cat=421&page=1 ;)

[Oso]

lol, thanks. i think I'm basically aware of how to guard vs. most attacks...no one stops every attack every time.

besides, every time he leg kicked me he left his head open because he dropped his hands. :)

[xcakid]

Ya know, thats another reason I don't spar full contact anymore. I sparred a few months back with a red belt at my current school. Here's the list of injuries after 4 rds of 2mins ea.

1) re injure my patellar tendonitis on both knees.
2) jammed my thumb
3) headache due to getting hit in the head
4) bruise on left thigh
5) biggest injury of all, MY EGO :(

So from now on, I am just gonna talk about my past accomplishments. I can't even do forms properly now cause of my knees.

Sux being old.

Oso, just put some Jow on it. There are days I take a bath in the stuff.

[Black Jack II]

Injuries suck but there to be expected within a certain framework.....anything past that framework should make you consider where you are training, your training partners or your own limits.

Not saying this about you at all Oso, everyone gets nailed in sparring no matter what rank or experiance, anyone that says different is full of sh!t.

[rogue]

I see yet another change in my training in the near future. Right now I'm trying to find the right balance of contact to keep my skills but not training it too much that I spend weeks healing. For now I'm going to start using more padding.

[WinterPalm]

You guys probably need to train more and smarter. Hard contact sparring will leave you banged up but it is necessary and to incur so many injuries seems like you aren't doing something right.

That said, the last time I sparred, in April, I tore all the lateral ligaments in my ankle...shrugged it off, and went six more rounds before calling it a day. The next day was awful! Lesson learned, if you do get something pretty banged up, call er for the day and nurse the injury instead of machoing through it...although I did prove something to myself, and my friends apparently, about getting hurt and pushing through it.

[xcakid]

You guys probably need to train more and smarter. Hard contact sparring will leave you banged up but it is necessary and to incur so many injuries seems like you aren't doing something right.


Yeah like taking 12+yrs off from martial arts then coming back @39yo and thinking I am still 25yo with all the flexibility and speed. :p My mind remembers the moves, my body just doesn't cooperate. And my body now heals at a pace of a snail going up hill.

[rogue]

Wait till you get to 48 and the real fun begins. :eek:

When people tell me that Grand Master X is over 75 and still able to do everything he did at 20 because of his training, I then ask about what happened to his classmates who received the same training. Then I have to duck because of the excuses of why those classmates are bent over old men who can barely shuffle across the floor.

[xcakid]

Dude I am giving the external style another 3yrs. After that I am doing Hsing I.

Hopefully Hitlery doesn't get into office and I can still use my Gun Go Pow techniques.

[Black Jack II]

Hopefully Hitlery doesn't get into office and I can still use my Gun Go Pow techniques.

Won't happen. To many gun owners for her "it takes a village to raise my retarded child" a$$ to really make reality.

Either even thinging about having her criminal kester in the office with her douchebag husband makes me get the runs.

[Oso]

5) biggest injury of all, MY EGO :(

enh, i'm not saying i'm egoless but most days it's not an issue.

Oso, just put some Jow on it. There are days I take a bath in the stuff.


lol, i did...almost had to sleep on the couch.

[Oso]

Injuries suck but there to be expected within a certain framework.....anything past that framework should make you consider where you are training, your training partners or your own limits.

the big mistake was me not wearing shin guards or head gear. we were only supposed to be going 'medium' but he had no control over his round kick, it was either on or off. I could have called a stop to talk about it but it wasn't bothering me that much, he didn't hit me anywhere but the leg and the one shot to the head.

he hasn't sparred much as I understand it, so control and 'courtesy' (like when he realizes he's pounding some poor old guy's leg to pulp :p ) will come with time. He wasn't malicious at all...very nervous in fact...a good kid that will go as far as he wants to in this.

...limits...yea, that's mostly what this post was about...in another year this kid will definitely be more than good enough to take me in a competitive fight...but I can't let go yet :)



Not saying this about you at all Oso, everyone gets nailed in sparring no matter what rank or experiance, anyone that says different is full of sh!t.


no worries

and yea, you're going to get hit if you spar.

[Black Jack II]

Oso,

Bro, when it comes to injuries there is only one that really bothers me and its not the newb's, who as we all know carry there weight of problems in the gym intell they get the correct down.

It's those bizzare newbs or even medium year players who are born again retarded. I know it sounds mean but there is a certain class of student, a certain archtype, who for some odd reason is so off the rocker that the word control is something only related to not getting pregnant.

You know....the student who always cranks on the armbars like he is trying to break a virgin in...yet when you tell him/her to go easy, they say oh god, so sorry, but over and over and over again, the bizzare spastic keeps reaching for the moon.

Jerky, power spastic, always going way off the the marker for the move, does not seem to listen even though you see him or her looking at you, just really, really bizzare.

and lets not even talk about how certain cops can be in training, I have met a few who are so ignorant of others injuries that its borderline torture, or just so ignornat it floats back down to the bizzare newb at.

[Oso]

yep, been through a bunch of those.

kind of a mix between rambo and pee wee herman at time.

[Hau Tien]

LOL... the more I teach, the more I see guys like that (no concept of control despite a bit of experience). I've found that making your blocks into striking blocks makes them learn how to pull their techniques a bit, if only so they aren't injured themselves ;) Amazing how a bit of pain helps as a learning aid :)

[xcakid]

kind of a mix between rambo and pee wee herman at time.



HEYYYYYY!!! I resemble that remark. :D

[TenTigers]

when people don't have control-"Ohh, man, sorry, I don't know my own strength" -bullsh!t
a mother crocodile has jaws that can crush through a two by four, and yet she carries her young in her jaws-and has a brain the size of a fukin walnut.
so what are ya sayin...?
If you really had no control, when you ate, you would slam the fork though your throat. If you had an eyelash in yuor eye, you would thrust your finger knuckle deep trying to get it out. (and you can forget about slammin the ham..
This isn't a lack of physical control, it's a lack of mental/emotional control-ego.
There are no excuses.
As far as keeping up contact training when you get older-I'm approaching the hald century mark next week (7-11) and I still like to play hard, but I am learning not to play stupid...I think.
(then again, two weeks ago, I was going at it with a training bro-6'-4" 280 lbs, godan in Goju,and he caught me right in the forehead with an elbow. If it was an inch lower, he would have crushed my nose like a beer can. Still have the lump.
I think I may have dain bramage...)

[Black Jack II]

If you really had no control, when you ate, you would slam the fork though your throat.

ROFLMAO!!

I brought up cops because about three weeks ago I was at a function where a player was a police officer and 1st dan in Kempo, the guy had almost zero control, and had a hard time understanding why some of his training partners were getting injured.

He kept roughly grabbing the face of a player in a head control/clinching drill who had a inner cut lip from sparring and it kept opening up more and more......guy was so wrapped in his own head he didn't notice nor care, kept using one of two lines, oh its no big deal or sorry I lost a little control.

Let me not even bring up the bonafide retarded chick a long time ago in silat when we used real blades in practice whose sides were wrapped in tape, this nutter ended up giving one person a small tip rip and almost gutted myself.

It was like if the stab is supposed to be a number 5 lunge, it would never be a number 5, but some superman alternate world number 3..........only one of three times I ever had to talk to an instructor and say wtf!

[TenTigers]

what is amazing is how we have tolerance for these people, and at the stake of our own personal safety. (But thead voice:"uhh..we're stupid. uh-huh-huh")

[xcakid]

At my old kwoon, we use to match up begginers with advanced students. We would always tell them about control etc. We also tell them that we would hit as hard as they would. I can remember 2-3 beginner getting knock the f... out. Most would realize what hard contact was as a minute or two.

[Black Jack II]

This is prob going to get Becca knocking at my door with a shotgun and a can or gasoline but some of the worst cases of control that I have ever come across besides the macho action figure people were women.

I don't know if its been my bad luck but some of the worst injuries I have ever seen came from the much hotter and often times brighter sex pushing past there own limits to prove something or just being way to spastic.

This includes someone's gums getting raked...ouch...with long nails in a very simple drill....someone getting his ankle split open with a heavy stick in a two man drill...a guy getting a finger broken during a simple joint lock transition drill....list could go on.

I feel like an a$$ now.:rolleyes:

[Oso]

yea, control is a big issue with me. my students are getting pretty good at going at a set pace and starting to get better at going fast but not hard. the goal is to get to a point where we can go fast and hard but control shots to the head and joints.

i was having fun, and being a little stupid, and the guy was mostly just hitting me in the leg (except for the one head shot which was beautifully timed on his part and stupidly not recognized by moi :D ) so I let him go. I talked with him after and told him we usually didn't try to hit that hard most of the time and we'd be working on toning it down next time.


i've seen a few people who seemed to have a disconnect of sorts and didn't get that they were doing things to hard (and I agree, a greater portion were women and no woman takes my class for long unless she cuts her nails at least reasonably short - same rule for guys ) but mostly it's been attitude fueling the gung-h0-till-it-breaks attitude.

[David Jamieson]

the "im sorry" and lack of control gig is true.

many people let their egos take over and the whole "look at me" thing kicks in.

Many people want to have others come up to them and tell them they are the cats pyjamas, or they want others to fear them or whatever.

I don't have time for it. If someone doesn't have control in an agreed upon scenario and I take a shot that wasn't agreed upon then they shall suffer the same. I don't need an "Im sorry". I'll give you back what you sent over instead.

No point in talking sense to someone who doesn't have any. Better to smack em. lesson gets learned quicker and rarely needs repeating unlike the stream of words we keep putting out onto deaf ears.

seriously, do NOT spare the rod when it goes wrong. escalate until he wants to negotiate, then bring it back round to step one.

Many people unfortunately need that lesson. It's a sad commentary on what a pack of retards Ma-ists can be. lol

[Black Jack II]

I will take one free sorry as long as its nothing I deem to be intentional but anything after that begs the age old question of....wtf?

Then its time to go harder intell they get the drift.

[rogue]

In the dojo when working out with people with bad control I find those silly pain compliance techniques handy. It let's the guy know in a way that he's probably not used to that you're tired of his crap without escalating things into a fight. And it's fun watching their leg twitch when you hit a nerve juuuust right.

[Yum Cha]

I agree with David. It escalates to the level of your opponent. If you are the senior, you are the one giving the lesson, controlling the dynamic. If they want to exercise technique and control, accommodate. If they want to try their stuff to the limit, accommodate. You can't try to hurt someone without the fear of being hurt yourself.

Young guys come in guns blazing have to pay the toll. It only happens once.

For the older guys, you have to set the rules from the start. Once you get puffed, you lose the advantage.

Also, give credit where credit is due. I like it when one of the boys can get the better of me. Shows somebody learning their chops.

[Oso]

Also, give credit where credit is due. I like it when one of the boys can get the better of me. Shows somebody learning their chops.

yep, it's especially fun as a teacher to have something you taught come back at ya.

[Meat Shake]

Not saying this about you at all Oso, everyone gets nailed in sparring no matter what rank or experiance, anyone that says different is full of sh!t.

I never get hit because when I took shaolin-do I learned to focus my chi to one point on my body and make a small explosion that stopped the blow, then run away on my massive pectorals.

[Oso]

ok, so it's like 3 weeks later and this **** foot still hurts.

here are some pics of it the night of the damage.

it's my right foot that got hurt

i'm not sure if a bone got cracked or just some serious soft tissue tearing.

had to move the weekend after and changed jobs and had a seminar to go to so I have of course not taken any time off of it...i know, stupid ....

[bakxierboxer]

ok, so it's like 3 weeks later and this **** foot still hurts.

here are some pics of it the night of the damage.

it's my right foot that got hurt

i'm not sure if a bone got cracked or just some serious soft tissue tearing.

had to move the weekend after and changed jobs and had a seminar to go to so I have of course not taken any time off of it...i know, stupid ....

It looks pretty "deep" and "set up".
What kind of Jow are you using?
Do you have access to Dit Dah Wan?
If so, the "drill" now is to take a few of the Wan use the Jow and RE-injure it.
You should be getting "color" up to the surface as the injury dissolves/dissipates.
Continue the Wan and deep-massage the Jow until healed.

This routine can actually get rid of bone-spurs in knee joints....

[Oso]

well, there is probably two injuries to see...about 6 months ago I went to side kick and the guy brought his shin up and blocked it...since then I've had a knot on the side of my pinkie metatarsal...I can't really see it in the pics but you can feel it on the side of my foot.



I jowed the above but didn't rest it.

I have a bruise jow purchased from Shifu Mike Biggie of Akron
I've several decantings and drew off some from the main jug to use on this that has been fermenting for 23 months.

after the recent incident:



I jowed it and then at the insistance of my girl, soaked it in some ice water (the pics are right after about 10 minutes of cold water) I didn't really want to do that but she made me

I jowed it 2-3 times a day till the color came and went over about 5 days.

I'm sure I should have taken at least 3-5 days off of it but couldn't.

[bakxierboxer]

well, there is probably two injuries to see...about 6 months ago I went to side kick and the guy brought his shin up and blocked it...since then I've had a knot on the side of my pinkie metatarsal...I can't really see it in the pics but you can feel it on the side of my foot.

I jowed the above but didn't rest it.

I have a bruise jow purchased from Shifu Mike Biggie of Akron
I've several decantings and drew off some from the main jug to use on this that has been fermenting for 23 months.

after the recent incident:

I jowed it and then at the insistance of my girl, soaked it in some ice water (the pics are right after about 10 minutes of cold water) I didn't really want to do that but she made me

I jowed it 2-3 times a day till the color came and went over about 5 days.

I'm sure I should have taken at least 3-5 days off of it but couldn't.

If that swelling is "soft-ish" the bruise jow will work ok eventually.
If it's "harder", check with Mike or Dale Dugas to see if they have any "bone jow".

Your GF was right at the time to stop additional swelling,although the Jow alone would have done "about as well".
Now you can start warming the jow before putting it on and *major* injuries can be treated (if you have enough jow & proper pans) by WARMING the jow and immersing the injured limb in it. Re immersion, good jow, when heated, BURNS!
(sensation)(not-so-strangely only at the injury site).
DON'T heat it over about 110 or whatever you can stand with relative ease.

The Dit Dah Wan are pills/capsules so that you're treating the injury from inside and outside simultaneously.

If no one has individual pills/caps, you can get the 5-Photo gigonda-pill in the metal tin, chop it up and dissolve it in your favorite booze.
Take a couple teaspoons of the solution maybe 20-30 minutes before each treatment with Jow.
If you can get the pills/caps, take them 45 minutes or so before treatment with Jow.

[Chosen-frozen]

This is prob going to get Becca knocking at my door with a shotgun and a can or gasoline but some of the worst cases of control that I have ever come across besides the macho action figure people were women.

I don't know if its been my bad luck but some of the worst injuries I have ever seen came from the much hotter and often times brighter sex pushing past there own limits to prove something or just being way to spastic.

This includes someone's gums getting raked...ouch...with long nails in a very simple drill....someone getting his ankle split open with a heavy stick in a two man drill...a guy getting a finger broken during a simple joint lock transition drill....list could go on.

I feel like an a$$ now.:rolleyes:

Don`t! I`ve had the same kinds of experiences in lots of classes. It reached the point where I could hardly get assistants to come to a womens`self defnse class we had at the university. I don`t have any proof, but my own theory is that they don`t have alot of confidence in themselves ("Oh little old me? I could never hurt someone so much bigger, I`m just not strong enough") or else they lack familiarity with the technique. So they crank on it "just to see if it REALLY works".

Most guys in martial arts classes have done some other kinds of sports aswell and come in knowing thier own strength. So they have some confidence in thier ability if they canjust learn it correctly. They`ll take your word for it when you say "Be careful this hurts like a muther" or mention that the risk for injury is high.

[Oso]

If that swelling is "soft-ish" the bruise jow will work ok eventually.
If it's "harder", check with Mike or Dale Dugas to see if they have any "bone jow".

It was softish and has stayed that way. The older injury got hard almost immediately though I massaged it with the jow.

Your GF was right at the time to stop additional swelling,although the Jow alone would have done "about as well".

yea, I've reduced swelling with massage and jow before. mostly, I'm just a wuss when it comes to ice cold water. :D

Now you can start warming the jow before putting it on and *major* injuries can be treated (if you have enough jow & proper pans) by WARMING the jow and immersing the injured limb in it. Re immersion, good jow, when heated, BURNS!
(sensation)(not-so-strangely only at the injury site).
DON'T heat it over about 110 or whatever you can stand with relative ease.

The Dit Dah Wan are pills/capsules so that you're treating the injury from inside and outside simultaneously.

If no one has individual pills/caps, you can get the 5-Photo gigonda-pill in the metal tin, chop it up and dissolve it in your favorite booze.
Take a couple teaspoons of the solution maybe 20-30 minutes before each treatment with Jow.
If you can get the pills/caps, take them 45 minutes or so before treatment with Jow.

thanks. i think the psuedo asian grocery next door has those pills. don't they have arnica in them?

[xcakid]

Looks like that's not gonna buff right out. :p

Have you gone to the Dr.?

[Oso]

Doctor??? We don't need no steenkin doctor!!!!

[David Jamieson]

keep in mind, most of the bones in your body are tiny, and they are within your hands and feet. Tissue damage in those areas takes time and patience to heal and quite often will never return to exactly how it was especially if there is any fracturing.

Because when fractures occur, the result is calcification to the healing area and that occurs in the shape of the wound unless it is thoroughly set, in which case the bone will take the shape of the set wound and still have some deformation in the bone.

so, when it's tiny ones in your feet, it takes a while.

also, if you continue to put hard contact on the foot and spend a lot of time on yoru feet, it exacerbates the problem and draws out the healing timeline further even with medicines.

you get an x-ray?

[Oso]

yea, I know. I also just remembered today that it's the same leg I broke 9 years ago...a double spiral fracture of the fibula that went all the way in to the ankle joint...so It's been messed up for a while.

ftr, I would have gone to the doctor if I had insurance. I just changed jobs and insurance won't start for another month.

[bakxierboxer]

thanks. i think the psuedo asian grocery next door has those pills. don't they have arnica in them?

I actually don't know.
It's "possible", but I've used it with good results as has another long-time user of this Forum.
Another helpful Chinese nostrum is/was "Emei Bone-Strengthening Patches", but I haven't even seen them around for something like ten years now.
Part of the "problem" is that the "deeper" injuries are what I call "bone bruises" and the injury/swelling is within/under the periosteum which is less-permeable than "normal flesh".