Are there any frauds teaching in the West?

[diego]

Recently I've been interested in researching the Internal arts of the Ching empire for two reasons...They are cool:) and I heard the Royal gaurds trained in Pa Kua, Tai Chi, Hsing Yi and Lama Pai. I've been training the basics of Hop Gar for ten years or so and eventually will find a teacher in the Internal arts.
I remember looking at paulie zink to his monkey yoga thinking that looks cool when I was a teen, then I read he is fake...So, are there any frauds teaching in the west...uno claims of white guys doing the oiuja board summoning sun lu tang to teach, etc

I think I read something about a Dr. Painter has a big story behind his lineage orsomething like that...Read about it years ago, so my recall is fuzzed.

I just bought Park Bok Nam's two Pakua books, I've read Robert Smith's books...I also have an interesting book by John Bracy and his sifu Lu Shui Tien in which they introduce the esoteric side within the system...I don't want to start reading stuff by guys that play make beleive, so I'm hoping this thread will warn me if need be:D
peace

[diego]

COOL!!!...everything is subtle in Tai Chi land...I'll be sure to run over to my nearest rec center and work on my jade pillow...

[scholar]

You are asking people to slam other teachers. Usually, westerners line up to do that, and I'm a little surprised no one has offered to here.

If someone did, though, how do you know you could trust what some anonymous crank says on the internet is right or not?

Since you seem to have some criteria already, it's best if you find out about potential teachers for yourself.

[SPJ]

my favorite books for the said styles.

1. Ma Hong on Chen Tai Chi. Wang Pei Sheng on Wu Tai Chi (Chinese)

2. Jiang Rong Qiao on Xing Yi Ba Gua (Chinese) I think there is an english translation.

3. Xing Yi Quan Xue by Su Lu tang and some army manuals.

--

:D

[msg]

it would be pretty easy to catch a fraud just talk to the teachers he or she says they traind under

[Three Harmonies]

Frauds everywhere. Silly question.
As for peoples lineage....that does not mean ****.
JAB:cool:

[diego]

I meant comparable frauds like paulie zink...The world renown Monkey King called Zink out, and zink disapeared with a blink:)...I'm really looking for those crazy guys that watch TV looking like they did situps never in their life making claims of no contact kills etc...I remember reading about some frauds in the past, but I was focused on Hop Gar so I didn't really pay attention.

[Three Harmonies]

I can tell you first hand that Zinks skills are 10x better than the "king" Chans! Chan is a joke. Neither one of them know how to fight much from what I have seen/experienced.
Don't believe everything you read/hear junior;):)

[gwa sow]

ok three amigos why is sifu chan a joke. i cant even read your post with a straight face. "Zinks skills are 10x better than the "king" Chans! " "Neither one of them know how to fight much from what I have seen/experienced. " exactly what experience???

[Three Harmonies]

I have trained w/ Zink, visited Chan. Know several students of Chan.

[diego]

I have trained w/ Zink, visited Chan. Know several students of Chan.

so why didn't zink meet the public challenge?

[Three Harmonies]

Why are you asking me?
I would guess he did not want to play silly childhood games, but I can only guess.

[diego]

Why are you asking me?
I would guess he did not want to play silly childhood games, but I can only guess.

i'm asking you cuz you are making unpopular claims, that should be backed up....childish games?

someone says you know yoga and you got your monkey style from a book!?!...if i was zink i would show my superior skill...honestly tho, imo i could rock zink with just my western boxing jab and cross...maybe a gut shot hook....

Chan looks tougher than zink....

[gwa sow]

"Tai Shing Pekwar is a composite style, as mentioned in the previous post there are the Tai Shing forms & the Pekwar (Pi Gua) forms. The other forms if you look at a complete syllabus include Baji Quan, Black Tiger, My Jong, Yen Ching, Chen Taiji (depending on whom you learn from), etc...

Oddly many of Chan Sau Chung's top guys ie; Seen Lum Yuk, Chow Keung, Chen Kune Tai, etc... were not schooled in the entire system of forms nonetheless they went onto become top full contact fighters in the Southeast Asian circuit. And if I am not mistaken most had not learnt the Monkey routines at that time. Their success as full contact fighters many have said was not due learning the vast number of forms in the style but rather the progressive approach that Chan took at the time in training fighters (ie; conditioning, bag training, sparring & such)."

from this post
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39008&highlight=chan+sau+chung&page=2

[gwa sow]

From the list of Chan Sifu's students you mentioned above Sifu Chow Keung did learn most of the sets including the monkey sets. My kung fu brother and I trained with him and the guy knows a ton of stuff.

He did talk about Chan Sifu;s ways of training them for full contact back in the day and man was it tough. It is no wonder they all did so well when fighting.

more from that post

[gwa sow]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyKingUSA
I have three questions for those in the know in TSPK.
Does CSC's TSPK have a ring form like Paulie Zink demonstrates on his tape?
Are any of the sets that Paulie Zink performs in his tapes a part of CSC's TSPK?
Please no Zink bashing. These are honest questions.
Any idea when the TSPK website will be back up?

If I give you honest answers, you'll say it's bashing

Zink knows NO Dai Sing Pek Gwa. All the monkey he does he made up. I know someone who knew him for YEARS. Knew him when his monkey sifu was supposed to be a secret (because he didn't know anything about Dai Sing back then). He knew him before Zink got a copy of Master Chan's book. In fact, my friend GAVE Zink the book and helped him translate it... after that, Zink suddenly remembered his teacher and lineage

I have done the three Pek Gwa forms that YC Wong learned from Gan Duk Hoi... what Zink does looks NOTHING like it...

[gwa sow]

As far as I know...

Master Chow keung knows all 5 Monkey sets... I have seen the pen form, the one I saw is definitely Pek Kwar... I will ask next time about the Broadsword set being monkeyish... :P

Yaosing,

I believe they taught Pek Kwar Dahn Do & Ying Yang Fist...

As far as Paulie Zink... I gave them a copy of a Zink video on Monkey... They were in tears laughing... They said there is not one similarity at all...

I hope the Tai Shing Pek Kwar under Chan Sau Chung grows... They have alot of great Kung Fu to offer...

sow choy

all from that post

[Three Harmonies]

Like I said I do not speak for anyone. I have not fought either one, so I cannot comment on their fighting abilities. I have touched hands with some of Chan's B.C. students and they left a lot to be desired, but perhaps they were new. Not important.
What I find amusing is that you so easily believe Chan making a statement, about Zink making a statement. What makes one or the other right, or better? And lets say Chan is right, what kind of person needs to come out, and not just "mention" Zink is a fraud at a dinner party, but take out full page ad's, develope whole websites dedicated to saying Zink is a fake!?!?! He had a webpage that said Zink was a fake, before he had a webpage for his classes and school! One has to wonder about priorities, and motives. I won't mention this was all coincidentally when Chan came over to Canada from Hong Kong.
Like I said I have no clue. And frankly no one does other than Zink. Perhaps he did make **** up. Perhaps he cannot fight his way out of a wet paper bag. I have no clue. But I have met the man, trained with him, and spent a few hours with him and my experiences with him were some of the most humble, and genuinley interested in his students and the martial arts. He moved smooth, and crisp. To be honest I have seen few who can move like him, not to mention the crazy flexibility.
So if he is a fake, then I tell you what, he is a freakin' genius! Few have his body awareness, and for him to create some so complex as to his curriculum!?!?!? Thats crazy genius.
So there you have it. I have no clue about any claims. I have no clue what Paulie is like now days, as we have fallen out of touch over the last few years.
My couple of incidents meeting Chan were not so favorable. Perhaps I caught him at the wrong time so no worries. Sure he is a nice teacher as well.
Cheers
Jake :cool:

[diego]

Like I said I do not speak for anyone. I have not fought either one, so I cannot comment on their fighting abilities. I have touched hands with some of Chan's B.C. students and they left a lot to be desired, but perhaps they were new. Not important.
What I find amusing is that you so easily believe Chan making a statement, about Zink making a statement. What makes one or the other right, or better? And lets say Chan is right, what kind of person needs to come out, and not just "mention" Zink is a fraud at a dinner party, but take out full page ad's, develope whole websites dedicated to saying Zink is a fake!?!?! He had a webpage that said Zink was a fake, before he had a webpage for his classes and school! One has to wonder about priorities, and motives. I won't mention this was all coincidentally when Chan came over to Canada from Hong Kong.
Like I said I have no clue. And frankly no one does other than Zink. Perhaps he did make **** up. Perhaps he cannot fight his way out of a wet paper bag. I have no clue. But I have met the man, trained with him, and spent a few hours with him and my experiences with him were some of the most humble, and genuinley interested in his students and the martial arts. He moved smooth, and crisp. To be honest I have seen few who can move like him, not to mention the crazy flexibility.
So if he is a fake, then I tell you what, he is a freakin' genius! Few have his body awareness, and for him to create some so complex as to his curriculum!?!?!? Thats crazy genius.
So there you have it. I have no clue about any claims. I have no clue what Paulie is like now days, as we have fallen out of touch over the last few years.
My couple of incidents meeting Chan were not so favorable. Perhaps I caught him at the wrong time so no worries. Sure he is a nice teacher as well.
Cheers
Jake :cool:

yeah see when i was 17 zink looked cool...but dude could just be born double jointed...then those stupid monkey shoves bannana in its bum facial poses he makes....very looneytune contemporary wushu for my tastes...i looked in your site and noticed you do mantis and such, so your claim had me curious...the public laughs at zink...but i have never met him or chan so..

[Three Harmonies]

The public laughs at a lot of people. Again, that does not mean ****. It has been my experience that the most "popular" are not always the best. And vice versa.
Indeed I do Mantis. A bit of Xing Yi and Taiji as well. Also train BJJ here in Seattle.
Cheers
Jake :cool: