What do you think of the author Robert Smith?

[diego]

Almost finished reading his book "Martial Musings" and it's really getting me thinking about Martial Arts and how it is all bullsh*t etc
some things running through my head:

no one can dance like their grandpa fought it seems...every generation since the gun has gotten weaker

if you claim martial art as a way of life in general you are prolly psycho or scared...i can't realistically hit my friend in the groin teaching him kung fu...so why in the hell does a ufc guy wanna bust his peers nose...on the other coin, why spend ten years learning to punch buddy in the nose, when you can purchase a gun and shoot him in an hour...in general dudes is scared or crazy

there are no real martial artists alive today in general unless they are scared or psycho...or a monk

you got all the secerecy and then you got all the gonzos making money off scams which keeps the secerecy a neccessity but then do to secerecy like freaking twenty people in the world know the method...and that's just wrong!

I don't know, but these are things I been pondering, so I ask you what you think of the author Smith...anything good or bad to say about him and his views?...dude was hating on wing chun and bruce, that should get some posts in here....:p

[Judge Pen]

I was thinking about starting a thread about him as well. I was re-reading his book on Hsing-Ie and his commentary on how, in essence, its too deadly to train as a sport and the skill comes with time by focusing on the form and not by training "live" etc. which is the same attitude that is often decried here on this forum. I don't have the text with me, but when I get home and have the time, I'll quote it directly with the citation. He is a prolific author in the Chinese Martial arts, but he is a proponent of certain concepts that have become fundamentally challenged.

[Eddie]

I take it this is not the same Robert Smith (Fat Bob) from the Cure? :cool:

can you maybe post the isbn numbers of that book? please.

[WinterPalm]

I feel that people need to get experience sparring with any system...with a lot of alive drills that help them develop their attributes. Sure there are deadly things you can do, but unless you have the control to deal with someone in a situational or competetive setting, and have trained against resisting opponents, doing so out of the blue against an aggressive assailant is very unlikely. Once you have the basics down, you can utilize the more painful applications of kung fu.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Hsing I uses some unique body mechanics that are only seen in a small number of styles. It takes some time to get them right. How ever, once you do, NOT sparring is going to hold you back. You still need to get in there and mix it up. Just makes sure you have a usable grasp of the body mechanics first.

Sparring before that would cause one to over muscle the techniques, and you really wouldn't be doing Hsing I, but some sort of externally cloned art.

The same goes for Taiji, and Bagua.

[CLFLPstudent]

I take it this is not the same Robert Smith (Fat Bob) from the Cure? :cool:


lol - I don't see him as the MA type for some reason.....:D

-David

[doug maverick]

generally its not good to spar with hsing yi because you can't half step and it can cause serious injury. but you can if you use oversized boxing gloves my sifu use to have us do it. also sparring doesn't teach how to fight not one bit. i have frien who have trophies up the ass for sparring and can't hold themselves in real fights. learning how to fight comes only from real fighting. sorry

[MasterKiller]

also sparring doesn't teach how to fight not one bit. i have frien who have trophies up the ass for sparring and can't hold themselves in real fights.

Depends on *how* you spar.

[diego]

Thanks for the replies you guys....I really wish peeps wouldn't move threads...this thread is about Smith's insights into Martial Arts...Wushu in particular as that is what I study...so I put it on the Kung Fu forum so it would get hits from every stylist...I never check this forum, so I would appreciatte if this thread could be moved back so I can get more hits.

I'm almost done the book so I can't relay my total thoughts on his insights yet...but I got some:)


I like what he was saying about the judoka were questioning Martial Art practise in reality, and all they could come up with is using martial art to practise zen etc...sun lu tang even said buy a gun...wushu is for health and spirit and community...

[diego]

I take it this is not the same Robert Smith (Fat Bob) from the Cure? :cool:

can you maybe post the isbn numbers of that book? please.

http://www.amazon.com/Martial-Musings-Portrayal-Arts-Century/dp/1893765008

wtf's isbn numbers? :)

[diego]

http://www.koryu.com/library/rsmith1.html


http://www.bestjudo.com/brmartialmusings.shtml

[Jimbo]

One thing interesting about Smith is that way back in the '80s he wrote a book called Western Boxing and World Wrestling under the pseudonym John F. Gilbey. It's a good book, and it very clearly emphasized the advantages that wrestlers and grapplers in general had over stand-up fighters in many of the "boxer versus wrestler" or wrestler versus karateman contests. Even though by that time such knowledge among many wasn't new, keep in mind this was several years before the American martial arts public in general became aware of the fact, and years before the first UFC.

As for what I think about Smith, I like him as a writer. I find few martial arts writers to be interesting to read; Smith is one who is; so is Marc "Animal" MacYoung and a couple others. Robert Smith certainly has his opinions, many of which I definitely disagree with. He tends to overly glorify the arts/systems he likes and dismisses offhand everything else. He seems to respect judo, boxing, wrestling (Greco-Roman, catch-as-catch-can, Indian, Shuai Chiao, etc.), taiji, xingyi, bagua, and that might be about it. He particularly seems to look down on southern Chinese systems, possibly excepting Fukien White Crane systems. Any other southern system he simply describes as, "a basic southern Shaolin system." He rates northern systems as higher than southern systems, mainly because that's what he was exposed to more in Taiwan.

Smith's been in the martial arts for a long, long time, I think since the late 1930s or so. That doesn't mean everything he says anyone has to agree with, or that he's necessarily right. But IMO he certainly has the right to express his opinions. Some of his beliefs seem very down-to-earth and practical; others seem kind of odd for someone of his skeptical background.

[doug maverick]

unless your sparring to kill your sparring partner it can't really prepare you cause there are rules in sparring and there are no rules in the streets. but i see what your saying. me and my friend would do all types of defferent training to help mentally prepare us for actual confrontation. i went home many a day with bruise's and black eye. but it did help. as for smith i find his books extremely insightfull, i really liked his his book on chinese boxing i bought it when i was around ten and still have the copy to this day, i didn't like the original version of his xing yi book, and didn't really pay to much atention to it. but the re-realised copy that has wang shu chin showing his version of the five elements along with other masters and the written advice of masters long pass were extremely interesting.

as for weather there any martial artist in the world still. i think there are, growing where i grew up i found myself in constant use of the stuff i learned. in recent years however i try my best to avoid fighting, because if i have to fight that means i have to kill that person. cause as i learned the hard way people just can't take a good fashion a$$ whooping anymore like to bring guns into the mix and aftyer you whip that guys ass he will most likely come back with a gun to try and kill. so the way i look every confontation is that my lifes on the line. of course the law doesn't see it that way. so i say to people avoid fighting as much as possible and if you do fight and have to do what you have to do don't stick around thinking the cops are gonna pin a medal on you just run.

[diego]

As for what I think about Smith, I like him as a writer. I find few martial arts writers to be interesting to read; Smith is one who is; so is Marc "Animal" MacYoung and a couple others. Robert Smith certainly has his opinions, many of which I definitely disagree with. He tends to overly glorify the arts/systems he likes and dismisses offhand everything else. He seems to respect judo, boxing, wrestling (Greco-Roman, catch-as-catch-can, Indian, Shuai Chiao, etc.), taiji, xingyi, bagua, and that might be about it.

Yeah, I finished the book earlier this evening, and over all quite enjoyed it...if you look at the readers reviews in the amazon link where you can purchase a copy of the book, one of the customers in his review came off dense:)...he all blah, cry Smith talked about poetry and this and that when he shoulda just spit history of martial art in america, etc...I don't know the book made sence to me...It's a good overview of one martial art historian slash lover's writing style, and at the end of the book it lists his other 15 books and various articles available for purchase...guess the reviewer thought the author was new to the scene...

I wish Smith spoke more on his views on southern kung fu...dude had me thinking like sh*t is Hop Gar southern or northern...what does he think of tibetan arts, etc...kinda curious on alla that!!

I see why he likes the arts you listed tho...dude's from ww2 days, tired of aggression etc Plus he a doaist so I took it as he practised martial art like the japanese paint Zen. In his other writings does he speak more on the southern arts?.

[diego]

unless your sparring to kill your sparring partner it can't really prepare you cause there are rules in sparring and there are no rules in the streets. but i see what your saying. me and my friend would do all types of defferent training to help mentally prepare us for actual confrontation. i went home many a day with bruise's and black eye. but it did help. as for smith i find his books extremely insightfull, i really liked his his book on chinese boxing i bought it when i was around ten and still have the copy to this day, i didn't like the original version of his xing yi book, and didn't really pay to much atention to it. but the re-realised copy that has wang shu chin showing his version of the five elements along with other masters and the written advice of masters long pass were extremely interesting.

as for weather there any martial artist in the world still. i think there are, growing where i grew up i found myself in constant use of the stuff i learned. in recent years however i try my best to avoid fighting, because if i have to fight that means i have to kill that person. cause as i learned the hard way people just can't take a good fashion a$$ whooping anymore like to bring guns into the mix and aftyer you whip that guys ass he will most likely come back with a gun to try and kill. so the way i look every confontation is that my lifes on the line. of course the law doesn't see it that way. so i say to people avoid fighting as much as possible and if you do fight and have to do what you have to do don't stick around thinking the cops are gonna pin a medal on you just run.


yOne thing I've been thinking about about sparring tho...it's fun as hell...but you got long term martial art so you can hold your own when you retire, and you got training for a big fight...you don't want etc arthritis when your old training too hard or whatever right...so i'm kinda paying attention to why dudes train to fight and why they train for health, trying to work out the proper balance as the opening of these arts is a recent occurrence for the western masses...I'm thinking like, wouldn't that be ****ed to be muay thai champ at 20, then crippled with arthritis and joint injuries at 60, when you coulda just purchased a gun, and then retired later playing tennis chewing viagra like paris hilton do vitamins made from columbia...somthing like that anyway:cool:

hop gar punches do your muscles something lovely for the chicks at the beach in the sun tho i must say, so i'm just saying...

[sanjuro_ronin]

Robert's books are great for the stories and anecdotes, especially the ones about Blumming and Draeger.

Take most of it with a grain of salt, but very entertaining.