Monk Fight

[YungChun]

Thought I'd post this clip... No idea if the folks here have seen this or not...

I've seen a clearer example of this clip.. If anyone has a link please post.. or similar clip please post..

What I think is unusual about this clip, is that the Monk is using classical movement and techniques in this fight... Now I know... It's not MMA...<loud awwwwww> still it is free fighting and with full contact, or so it seems...

IMO this Monk guy is not even going near 100&#37;



For the group...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxpFXcx6mG4

[Knifefighter]

Thought I'd post this clip... No idea if the folks here have seen this or not...
I've seen a clearer example of this clip.. If anyone has a link please post.. or similar clip please post..
What I think is unusual about this clip, is that the Monk is using classical movement and techniques in this fight... Now I know... It's not MMA...<loud awwwwww> still it is free fighting and with full contact, or so it seems...
IMO this Monk guy is not even going near 100%
For the group...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxpFXcx6mG4

That is not free fighting with full contact. That is a demo with each person playing defense, while the other person launches offensive attacks.

Free fighting with full contact will always multiple instances of both fighters launching offensive attacks at the same time.

This has non of that. It is fake.

[YungChun]

That is not free fighting with full contact. That is a demo with each person playing defense, while the other person launches offensive attacks.

Free fighting with full contact will always multiple instances of both fighters launching offensive attacks at the same time.

This has non of that. It is fake.

I was not there...

However, you are talking about fighting styles Dale.. I have seen many a MMA fight where either fighter would go defensive and give ground..then attack and the other would give ground... You don't always get two sluggers nor do you always get any particular mix of fighting styles even in NHB/UFC...

It was not a two man set....there was a ref.

There was intent on the part of the TKD guy...That's how they fight....

IMO that was not "fake" beyond the the rule-set of the match--and as I recall from the longer clip I saw, this was from some tournament.

[Liddel]

EDIT..... you are talking about fighting styles Dale.. I have seen many a MMA fight where either fighter would go defensive and give ground..then attack and the other would give ground... You don't always get two sluggers nor do you always get any particular mix of fighting styles even in NHB/UFC...


Got to agree on some level there Dale - did you see Koscheck VS Sanchez...?
That was Koscheck's game, defencive avoidance as i like to call it :)
It was F'N boring to watch.

Plus, maybe this monk is more about buddism than Kung Fu and didnt want to hurt the guy LOL.
:o

DREW

[Knifefighter]

LOL @ thinking that was anything but a work.

[Liddel]

LOL @ thinking that was anything but a work.

Who you kidding Dale ?
You dont have a sence of humour....:o

Here's Koscheck trainging before the fight with sanchez.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QreuuPm24UI&watch_response

[YungChun]

Personally, I think you guys are jaded... :p

The original video didn't have all the editing and was longer with more attacks..

From what I and others have seen of TKD sparring we didn't think it was a set up/demo...although it was no smash and bash.. The Monk and the TKD clearly have skills, although perhaps different from what some might see as mainstream NHB type fighting skills...

No biggie.. I have seen some of these Monks training to fly and I thought it would be interesting to see more from them...

[Liddel]

Yeah, as far as the Monk goes.... he has good range and i like the fact that hes not to sensitive, meaning he doesn't over react to what hes given.
Although IME range is easy to control when your playing a defencive game rather than looking or making openings and following up.

This is prob due to the fact that most TKD practitioners remain at the same range throughout confrontation due to thier style...im mean it is a kicking art.

I had front row seats to the New Zealand TKD champs a while back and the best of the best at the compitition let most of thier hand striking opportunities go in favour of kicking....which is a bit of the style using you, not you using the style IMO.

Thats the only vid ive ever seen where a monk is mixing it up on any level. usuallly its pure co operative demo with NO contact, so good for him....

Post more if you find them Dave. Cheers
DREW

[YungChun]

Yeah, as far as the Monk goes.... he has good range and i like the fact that hes not to sensitive, meaning he doesn't over react to what hes given.

I thought so as well and his guard looks a lot like a biu/goh bong sao I thought, some Snake influence perhaps..


Although IME range is easy to control when your playing a defencive game rather than looking or making openings and following up.

I think range is easy to control when both folks want the same range.. The Monk almost looked like he was just getting a workout, testing himself a little JMO...

Still, I thought he covered his gates with great economy, and showed a lot of speed and athletisism.. I wonder where his brothers are.. :cool::eek:

[t_niehoff]

I think it was a couple of years ago or something, but BB magazsine had an article about a low- to mid-level MMA fighter who went to China to train with the Shaolin monks. He wrote about how they could do all these amazing things with their bodies (athletic, even acrobatic), how they believed they possessed the most superior fighitng method (where have we heard this before?), but yet how they couldn't spar (fight) worth beans.

Certainly this isn't an example of genuine sparring/fighting -- only long-range kicks were thrown, and nothing else was even attempted: no punches, no clinching, no takedowns, etc. This could only occur by explicit or tacit agreement. And it was apparent that they were not really trying to hurt each other (no real power was displayed). This was just playfighting, and not particularly good playfighting. It really doesn't take much skill to stay out of range in this scenario. Put either of thse guys in against a decent thai boxer and you'd see how silly this was.

[jesper]

Terrence you are ofcourse aware that both styles prefer to fight from the long range, so how can you be suprised when they stay out in that range.
Its pretty presumptuis of you to gues how they would fight against a MT boxer since you havent actually seen them do so.
They might suck, but maybe they are able to adapt to the situation.

This is a classical excample of two long range fighters being allowed to stay on their prefered range, so naturally they will do so.

[t_niehoff]

Terrence you are ofcourse aware that both styles prefer to fight from the long range, so how can you be suprised when they stay out in that range.
Its pretty presumptuis of you to gues how they would fight against a MT boxer since you havent actually seen them do so.
They might suck, but maybe they are able to adapt to the situation.

This is a classical excample of two long range fighters being allowed to stay on their prefered range, so naturally they will do so.

I can see that neither "fighter" is generating any real power -- that's why they would be killed by a good thai boxer. Look at those guys then look at a *good* MT fighter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3R4xtjl5b4

No one is going to "win" a fight by just kicking (especially with little real power behind them). That was playfighting.

MT v. TKD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk7O8ELJDvU

[jesper]

How can you SEE they are not generating power, do you have a build in power measurer (have no idea what would be the name of such a device).
Have you ever been hit by one of those kicks especially the 360 kick from the monk, if not then try it and come back here and state there is no power behind that.
I would think it fairly obvious by any WC fighter that you cant see how much power there is behind a shot, since you need to be relaxed in order to generate the most power. this is not holliwood where you make silly faces and tense all up terrence. Obviously I dont have to tell you this with all your fighting experiences, so this is for the rest who has never fought.

Oh and about your comment that noone is winning a fight by kicking. Why make such a comment then show a video where ramon is obviously knocking the **** out of his opponents by kicks :confused:.

Again you dont want to see the point that both fighters are fighting in there prefered range, this is not thaiboxing vs wrestling. This is tkd vs shaolin, both reputed for there long range fighting, not there wrestling.

But im sure you could beat both of them, being the super fighter you are :rolleyes:

[monji112000]

I can see that neither "fighter" is generating any real power -- that's why they would be killed by a good thai boxer. Look at those guys then look at a *good* MT fighter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3R4xtjl5b4

No one is going to "win" a fight by just kicking (especially with little real power behind them). That was playfighting.

MT v. TKD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk7O8ELJDvU

yah ramon dekker is a tough fighter, but lol his MMA fight was pretty telling on how MT is in the same boat that CMA is. NO GROUND GAME

MT generates amazing power. Anyone who has trained with a good MT fighter will tell you that. its a no brainer

The mechanical differences from MT to CMA in many cases are minimal, and allot of MT fighters are just adopting a western boxing approach to punching. Really its more of a ring strategy and timing difference.

[t_niehoff]

How can you SEE they are not generating power, do you have a build in power measurer (have no idea what would be the name of such a device).


I can see that they are not using their bodies in a way that could generate much in the way of power. The ability to see this comes from training.



Have you ever been hit by one of those kicks especially the 360 kick from the monk, if not then try it and come back here and state there is no power behind that.


They have nothing but a lot of fancy moves. When you know what to look for, you can see what will generate real power and what won't.



I would think it fairly obvious by any WC fighter that you cant see how much power there is behind a shot, since you need to be relaxed in order to generate the most power. this is not holliwood where you make silly faces and tense all up terrence. Obviously I dont have to tell you this with all your fighting experiences, so this is for the rest who has never fought.


But you do need to move your body is certain ways to generate much in the way of pwer. That monk is swinging his legs around, but that's about it. No real body connection. If you look deeply at how the MT fighter kicks (even the type of kicks used) - particularly in how he is using his body - and compare that with the monk, you'll see the difference.



Oh and about your comment that noone is winning a fight by kicking. Why make such a comment then show a video where ramon is obviously knocking the **** out of his opponents by kicks :confused:.


I said no one is really going to win any fight by just kicking. The MT guy came close (someone threw in the towel) because he was facing someone who had no real power. If they had let the MT guy punch, elbow, knee, clinch, etc. the fight would have been over very quickly.



Again you dont want to see the point that both fighters are fighting in there prefered range, this is not thaiboxing vs wrestling. This is tkd vs shaolin, both reputed for there long range fighting, not there wrestling.


They may be in their "preferred" range, but they are in it with very little in the way of functional skills or functional power. They are just playing, and this is what they train to do (play sparring). Contrast that with MT, where they train to really fight. Put that monk in with a good MT fighter and it would be over in seconds.



But im sure you could beat both of them, being the super fighter you are :rolleyes:

I've never made a claim. :)

Why don't *you* take this clip over to the UG (mma.tv) and go to the kickboxing forum and ask some people that really kickbox, that have fought, what they think of those guys? Or even better, begin by telling them how good and powerful the monk is. Give them a good laugh.

[t_niehoff]

yah ramon dekker is a tough fighter, but lol his MMA fight was pretty telling on how MT is in the same boat that CMA is. NO GROUND GAME


Yes, neither has a ground game but that's about as far as they go for "being in the same boat." MT is a functional fighting method whereas most CMA is not.



MT generates amazing power. Anyone who has trained with a good MT fighter will tell you that. its a no brainer


Agreed. And anyone that looks at that monk-TKD exhibition can see they lack power.



The mechanical differences from MT to CMA in many cases are minimal, and allot of MT fighters are just adopting a western boxing approach to punching. Really its more of a ring strategy and timing difference.

I think many in the CMA would like to believe the mechanical differences with MT are minimal, but the results tell us something different.

[Knifefighter]

Once again, Terrence is correct.

[anerlich]

That's an exhbition/demo, not a fight.

LOL at the "conclusions" being drawn here.

[Knifefighter]

That's an exhbition/demo, not a fight.

Exactly... it is immediately clear to those who have fought before.

[YungChun]

Exactly... it is immediately clear to those who have fought before.
That's a load... There's all kinds of sparring that goes on in MA competitions..

You don't like it that's fine..

No, it wasn't a smash and bash fight--but I though it showed some interesting things... Instead of labeling everything posted around here for what it isn't, you know it is possible to look at what might be interesting about it, but I know it is hard for some to go outside their box.. This, as Liddel said, it's unusual to see a Monk doing this kind of thing and some of the moves were interesting.. And as I said from the longer clip, I saw, it did appear to be some kind of a tournament…. I know a meaningless waste of their time if so… :rolleyes:

Not your cup of tea? Fine.. It's not mine either but that doesn't stop me from learning and absorbing what might be the smallest lesson contained therein...

Some comments also show me that some of the heavy hitters that hang around here making speeches don't have any familiarity with other kinds of sparring and fighting that goes on in other <less effective no doubt> MA circles..

No power? LMAO..

Any time you have an entire body mass spinning rapidly in the air there is quite a bit of power available in the extended kicking leg... Just need to get your head in the way of that foot to feel the power... WAJ..

[t_niehoff]

That's a load... There's all kinds of sparring that goes on in MA competitions..


You are absolutely correct -- there are all kinds of sparring that goes on (even in MA competitions). And that's exactly the problem: most of it does not resemble fighting (i.e., is not realistic), so you get people believing what they are doing -- because, after all they are "sparring" -- is developing good fighting skills. But it is not. Like this crap. It is doing just the opposite; it's developing poor fighting skills. And that's because people who do these things are reinforcing poor fighting habits, poor mechanics, poor tactics, poor timing, etc. Put these guys in against a real fighter and it becomes immediately clear.



You don't like it that's fine..

No, it wasn't a smash and bash fight--but I though it showed some interesting things... Instead of labeling everything posted around here for what it isn't, you know it is possible to look at what might be interesting about it, but I know it is hard for some to go outside their box.. This, as Liddel said, it's unusual to see a Monk doing this kind of thing and some of the moves were interesting.. And as I said from the longer clip, I saw, it did appear to be some kind of a tournament…. I know a meaningless waste of their time if so… :rolleyes:

Not your cup of tea? Fine.. It's not mine either but that doesn't stop me from learning and absorbing what might be the smallest lesson contained therein...


What are the lessons to be learned from watching two guys with little in the way of real fightiing skills playing around? Well, it might help you if you too wanted to play around, but you can't derive anything useful about genuine fighting from nofighting.



Some comments also show me that some of the heavy hitters that hang around here making speeches don't have any familiarity with other kinds of sparring and fighting that goes on in other <less effective no doubt> MA circles..

No power? LMAO..

Any time you have an entire body mass spinning rapidly in the air there is quite a bit of power available in the extended kicking leg... Just need to get your head in the way of that foot to feel the power... WAJ..

Punching with arm power alone will develop some power too. But it is night and day from the power you generate with good body mechanics.

This sort of demo is designed to "impress" those who don't know better.

[sanjuro_ronin]

It was a nice display of kicking skill,fancy kicking skill.
Not a fight by any stretch of the imagination, perhaps the ref was there to make sure it didn't turn into a fight.
Maybe it was a comparative view of TKD and WuShu kicking styles or maybe they were seeing who was gonna pick up the tab at the local brothel, whatever.

As for the Dekkers clip, :D
Ramon is one uber-cool guy, like all most dutch fighters, they will fight at the drop of a hat and just love to train and will train with you and teach you anytime.
Super nice guys.

[jesper]

Your right, im wrong terrence

They have sloppy kicks just like the ones in this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvjvugJ2rFM
Which obviously have no power behind them at all :rolleyes:

The truth is terrence you have never fought a tdk fighter or you wouldnt make these stupid remarks

[sanjuro_ronin]

LOL !

I don't know of anyone who TRULY thinks that Top Level TKD guys don't kick as well as Top Level MT fighters, that's just silly.

[Knifefighter]

Your right, im wrong terrence

They have sloppy kicks just like the ones in this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvjvugJ2rFM
Which obviously have no power behind them at all :rolleyes:

The truth is terrence you have never fought a tdk fighter or you wouldnt make these stupid remarks

I think he was remarking about the TKD fighter in the first clip, not all TKD fighters. There is a world of difference between the "monk clip" and the TKD KO video you linked above. The first clip is a work, while your clip showed full contact, full power, and full intent.

[t_niehoff]

I think he was remarking about the TKD fighter in the first clip, not all TKD fighters. There is a world of difference between the "monk clip" and the TKD KO video you linked above. The first clip is a work, while your clip showed full contact, full power, and full intent.

Exactly.

And it boils down not to their "style" - that MT is "better" than TKD - but how a person trains. If your training revolves around "full contact, full power, and full intent" that comes across in everything you do.

[John Takeshi]

The monk's name is Shi Di Yueng. He is the master of the eagle fist system, but was sparring using his viper techniques.

You can find the full video (or at least you used to be able to) at:

www.shaolinmonkery.com

[Wayfaring]

The monk / TKD guy looked like they were doing a public demo type of sparring that was more centered on showing off their athleticism in kicking range than it was any kind of real altercation.

It was a back and forth chase and run exchange, whether there was a ref or not.

A lot of those monks are starting to get out more and do demos I think to raise publicity on their temples and training. I don't think any of them are training for MMA fights.

I don't know if I'd extrapolate from that video whether or not either of those guys could really mix it up or not. Some people that athletic can't put it together in real fighting rythym. Others can give people problems just due to their attributes - speed, athleticism.

On a similar note, here's a video of more traditional type of kicking similar to TKD in an MMA situation - Cung Le vs. Fryklund in his MMA debut. That's kind of a similar thing in more of a fighting based environment.

http://www.livevideo.com/video/6837E763DC534C17A9AB363A7BC849E2/cung-le-vs-fryklund-4th-mma.aspx

What do you think of that?