Villari Stories

[sun dragon]

Villari Stories.
Anyone have any stories of Fred Villari( Good or bad) or Fred Bagley ,Art Singer, Charles Mattera.

[SenseiShellie]

Fred Villari is a nice guy.

[NJM]

Fred Villari is a nice guy.

That's what Rommel said about Hitler, until he had to take the cyanide.

[SenseiShellie]

Let me rephrase it, if he likes you, he's a nice guy...

[TenTigers]

not so much about villari, but about the orginazation in general. I brought my 12 yr old student (son of a friend-whom I've been teaching since he was 7,so he was more like family) to a Ninja Seminar. It seemed cool in the flyer, as it showed an obstacle course,rappelling,knife throwing,etc.
Well, the "obstacle course" was lame, walk over a log...the rappelling was down a six foot hill that you could have simply stepped off of, it turned out that each one was a station of this "course" they had set up, anyway,the knife throwing was hilarious. They had styrofoam sheets on plywood, and these stars, and throwing knives. This one kid throws a knife and it hits handle side first, and sticks. The Vilari BB runninig the station, thinking ever so quickly, says,"Yes, even the HANDLE can be a formidable weapon!"
ok, it gets better, um worse.
Then we are to learn this staff set, so seeing that real Ninjas use their enviornment, we were to go into the woods and find staves. Picture a group of thirty or so, probably more, all learning a lame staff set, holding sticks, branches, some all bent with branches coming off them..hilarious-but wait, there's more...
at one point there is a thrust and the "Sensei" thrusts and yells,"CHAII!"
of course, the whole group follows suit. Everyone thrusts and yells,"CHAII!"
Little friend, who after knowing me since a toddler, has a warped sense of humor, does a little thrust and in a funny weak voice, looks up at me an says,"chaaii..." We burst out laughing. We were the only ones laughing,, as everyone else took this bullsh1t very seriously.
They were, after all, training to be Ninjas!
Then in the main hall, "THE MAHSTUH" (said with a Bahstahn accent) taught a CHI-KUNG set. Ok, so he's up there in his Elvis suit,white gi, TEN gold stripes, on the belt, ten gold stripes on the sleeves, ten gold stripes on the lapels, Sunglasses,all he was missing were the muttonchop sideburns.. well, he's going through this totally made up "Ch'i-Kung form"..and everyone's following along, then he does three um, raking claw moves, or whatever, and makes a hissing sound,three to the right, "SSSS! - SSSSS-SSSS!" three to the left,"SSSS! SSSS-SSSS!" and everyone in the place is doing the same thing.
My little guy tugs my sleeve, looks up at me and says in a stage whisper,"There's grown men doing this!"
I look at him and nod-"That's it, we're outta hear."

It took a child to put things in perspective.

[cjurakpt]

at one point there is a thrust and the "Sensei" thrusts and yells,"CHAII!"
obviously training you how to order a sweetened tea drink at Starbucks...

[SenseiShellie]

OMG...LOL about the Starbucks comment. That is seriously a sad "Ninja Camp." I've thought of better things to do than that.

[sun dragon]

OMG...LOL about the Starbucks comment. That is seriously a sad "Ninja Camp." I've thought of better things to do than that.

LOL Same here Sensei Shellie.

[sun dragon]

Let me rephrase it, if he likes you, he's a nice guy...

Really? Have you seen him mad before? How many times have you met him?

[TenTigers]

Master Bagley was teaching, I dunno, some sh1t..anyway, it had to do with Tiger Claws, and I make your standard fu-jow, and Bagley makes a claw with the index and middle finger extended, ring and pinky curled in more-kinda like Dracula.
Ok, so he sez, "You can tell when someone doesn't really understand Tiger when he makes his claws like that(meaning me) the index finger and middle finger are much stronger.." And I'm thinking, 'hmmmm, then I guess all those Hung-Ga,CLF,Fu-Jow,etc etc guys must have it all wrong.."
Then he's teaching the "Half-Moon Stance" which they use instead of a bow stance. Bagley "Proves" the innefectiveness of the bow stance and superiority of the Half-Moon Stance by having me stand in a bow stance and then he pushes me sideways, and of course, I topple. Then he shows me how doing that in the Half-Moon Stance is better because."The feet form a tripod" ok,I was young and naive, but not totally stupid. Two feet, two points on a plane. There will always be a perpendicular force to topple you. The half-moon stance does not transfer force or forward energy or rooting, completely lacking in structure..
but...I kept my mouth shut.
Another time, I brought in a magazine showing Ark Y. Wong, still going strong at 90. And I am remarking at how these old Chinese Masters are still traiinng, and how amazed I was. Well, one guy, an instructor in the org. says,"You talk about alot of other masters" I say, "Well, yeah, these guys are inspiring"
and he goes, real angry and offended, "Fred Villari is the only MASTER I know of!"
I'm thinkin.."you should get out more.."

[sun dragon]

Master Bagley was teaching, I dunno, some sh1t..anyway, it had to do with Tiger Claws, and I make your standard fu-jow, and Bagley makes a claw with the index and middle finger extended, ring and pinky curled in more-kinda like Dracula.
Ok, so he sez, "You can tell when someone doesn't really understand Tiger when he makes his claws like that(meaning me) the index finger and middle finger are much stronger.." And I'm thinking, 'hmmmm, then I guess all those Hung-Ga,CLF,Fu-Jow,etc etc guys must have it all wrong.."
Then he's teaching the "Half-Moon Stance" which they use instead of a bow stance. Bagley "Proves" the innefectiveness of the bow stance and superiority of the Half-Moon Stance by having me stand in a bow stance and then he pushes me sideways, and of course, I topple. Then he shows me how doing that in the Half-Moon Stance is better because."The feet form a tripod" ok,I was young and naive, but not totally stupid. Two feet, two points on a plane. There will always be a perpendicular force to topple you. The half-moon stance does not transfer force or forward energy or rooting, completely lacking in structure..
but...I kept my mouth shut.
Another time, I brought in a magazine showing Ark Y. Wong, still going strong at 90. And I am remarking at how these old Chinese Masters are still traiinng, and how amazed I was. Well, one guy, an instructor in the org. says,"You talk about alot of other masters" I say, "Well, yeah, these guys are inspiring"
and he goes, real angry and offended, "Fred Villari is the only MASTER I know of!"
I'm thinkin.."you should get out more.."

Funny stuff!
Have you ever worked with Master Bagley before that?
Do you have more stories?

[TenTigers]

I have to say, Master Bagley was one of the good people there. His Martial Arts was good, and he didn't seem at all like a prik, while others were very cliquish and obnoxious.

[SenseiShellie]

Really? Have you seen him mad before? How many times have you met him?

I've met him a few times. I have only heard of him being mad once...wasn't pretty from what I understand.

[SenseiShellie]

Master Bagley was teaching, I dunno, some sh1t..anyway, it had to do with Tiger Claws, and I make your standard fu-jow, and Bagley makes a claw with the index and middle finger extended, ring and pinky curled in more-kinda like Dracula.
Ok, so he sez, "You can tell when someone doesn't really understand Tiger when he makes his claws like that(meaning me) the index finger and middle finger are much stronger.." And I'm thinking, 'hmmmm, then I guess all those Hung-Ga,CLF,Fu-Jow,etc etc guys must have it all wrong.."
Then he's teaching the "Half-Moon Stance" which they use instead of a bow stance. Bagley "Proves" the innefectiveness of the bow stance and superiority of the Half-Moon Stance by having me stand in a bow stance and then he pushes me sideways, and of course, I topple. Then he shows me how doing that in the Half-Moon Stance is better because."The feet form a tripod" ok,I was young and naive, but not totally stupid. Two feet, two points on a plane. There will always be a perpendicular force to topple you. The half-moon stance does not transfer force or forward energy or rooting, completely lacking in structure..
but...I kept my mouth shut.
Another time, I brought in a magazine showing Ark Y. Wong, still going strong at 90. And I am remarking at how these old Chinese Masters are still traiinng, and how amazed I was. Well, one guy, an instructor in the org. says,"You talk about alot of other masters" I say, "Well, yeah, these guys are inspiring"
and he goes, real angry and offended, "Fred Villari is the only MASTER I know of!"
I'm thinkin.."you should get out more.."

LOL! Tripod? What was he smoking? I love how whenever you bring in something about another master, they always are say things like FV is the only Master. I remember once at the FV school I trained at, I said something about studying Taiji from a guy in the park, and my instructor made fun of me because I wanted to "go be with old people in the park and work really slow" I was like "huh? It's fun and relaxing." He then said he would teach me Taiji...I'm glad I didn't hold my breath. All I learned was Pinan 1 really slow.

[sun dragon]

I've met him a few times. I have only heard of him being mad once...wasn't pretty from what I understand.

Can you go into more detail ?

[TenTigers]

well, some people pout, others get that peach-pit chin thingy...was it like that?

[TenTigers]

..or perhaps it was something like this


http://youtube.com/watch?v=kBVmfIUR1DA

[tattooedmonk]

..or perhaps it was something like this


http://youtube.com/watch?v=kBVmfIUR1DAWHOA!!!That is crazy. I feel sorry for him...if it is real and not an act.

[SenseiShellie]

Can you go into more detail ?

No, I can't. All I can say is that it wasn't pretty.

[sun dragon]

No, I can't. All I can say is that it wasn't pretty.

Ok P.M. then if you don't mind.

[sun dragon]

Can you think of any other stories about villari masters?

[sk girl]

Can you think of any other stories about villari masters?

I only know ones about Mattera and his half a.s.s. ussd masters and their not good stories.

[sun dragon]

Heres a clip from Villaris 35th Anniversary clinic

http://karateevents.com/events/cc2003clinic/index2.php?flash=1&action=videopreview&PHPSESSID=7fbf4823076d64778a435f2c7e9121b1

[SenseiShellie]

I remember hearing the story about how Fred made up his hidden art of Sho Tung Quak. He was attacked on a beach in Tibet by 20 guys with swords. He sent 10 of them to the hospital...5 ran off and 5 no one knows what happened to. interesting story?

[TenTigers]

there's beaches in Tibet? cool. No wonder the Dalai Lama has such a nice tan.:)

[SenseiShellie]

LOL! I didn't think there were any beaches in Tibet.

[Shaolinlueb]

i know the villari school by us, the owners have a nice mini mansion they live in.

[SenseiShellie]

which school is it? there's a lot in mass

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Master Bagley was teaching, I dunno, some sh1t..anyway, it had to do with Tiger Claws, and I make your standard fu-jow, and Bagley makes a claw with the index and middle finger extended, ring and pinky curled in more-kinda like Dracula.
Ok, so he sez, "You can tell when someone doesn't really understand Tiger when he makes his claws like that(meaning me) the index finger and middle finger are much stronger.." And I'm thinking, 'hmmmm, then I guess all those Hung-Ga,CLF,Fu-Jow,etc etc guys must have it all wrong.."
Then he's teaching the "Half-Moon Stance" which they use instead of a bow stance. Bagley "Proves" the innefectiveness of the bow stance and superiority of the Half-Moon Stance by having me stand in a bow stance and then he pushes me sideways, and of course, I topple. Then he shows me how doing that in the Half-Moon Stance is better because."The feet form a tripod" ok,I was young and naive, but not totally stupid. Two feet, two points on a plane. There will always be a perpendicular force to topple you. The half-moon stance does not transfer force or forward energy or rooting, completely lacking in structure..
but...I kept my mouth shut.
Another time, I brought in a magazine showing Ark Y. Wong, still going strong at 90. And I am remarking at how these old Chinese Masters are still traiinng, and how amazed I was. Well, one guy, an instructor in the org. says,"You talk about alot of other masters" I say, "Well, yeah, these guys are inspiring"
and he goes, real angry and offended, "Fred Villari is the only MASTER I know of!"
I'm thinkin.."you should get out more.."

How long ago was this?

[Immortal_Dragon]

Who cares.....and why does any of this sh#% matter anyway??????

[SenseiShellie]

Who cares.....and why does any of this sh#% matter anyway??????

Because the stories can be funny to read. If you don't like it then sorry!

[YiLiQuan1]

I just met a guy that claims a 3rd degree black belt under Villari's system. I haven't seen him do anything, and he claims the last time he practiced actively was nearly 10 years ago.

He seems open minded, and welcomes discussion about all things martial...

What, other than Villari's marketing approach and apparent "mystical master" hype should I look forward to?

[sk girl]

Who cares.....and why does any of this sh#% matter anyway??????

The same could be said about shaolin-do's 500 pages pal.

[sk girl]

I just met a guy that claims a 3rd degree black belt under Villari's system. I haven't seen him do anything, and he claims the last time he practiced actively was nearly 10 years ago.

He seems open minded, and welcomes discussion about all things martial...

What, other than Villari's marketing approach and apparent "mystical master" hype should I look forward to?

It seems you found an ex shaolin kempo guy whos not brainwashed. Train with unless he go's crazy on you.

[SenseiShellie]

I just met a guy that claims a 3rd degree black belt under Villari's system. I haven't seen him do anything, and he claims the last time he practiced actively was nearly 10 years ago.

He seems open minded, and welcomes discussion about all things martial...

What, other than Villari's marketing approach and apparent "mystical master" hype should I look forward to?

Honestly, if he hasn't practiced in 10 years, then he's not brainwashed anymore. He might actually be open to talking about actual martial arts that isn't Fred Villari.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Who cares.....and why does any of this sh#% matter anyway??????

Didn't ask you.

[sun dragon]

It seems you found an ex shaolin kempo guy whos not brainwashed. Train with unless he go's crazy on you.

Have to agree with sk girl. Once you leave ussd and see what else is out there you become more openminded and wished you left those bozo's long ago.

[sun dragon]

Didn't ask you.

You tell him Nebuchadnezzar!

[TenTigers]

just remembered a story M Bagley once told-it seems some guy came in to challenge him, and M Bagley took his little finger, shoved it up the guy's nose-which he says is very painfull, and walked him out the door. I don't know how true it is, and I found it weird nonetheless. I mean, of all things to do...:confused:

[Sal Canzonieri]

just remembered a story M Bagley once told-it seems some guy came in to challenge him, and M Bagley took his little finger, shoved it up the guy's nose-which he says is very painfull, and walked him out the door. I don't know how true it is, and I found it weird nonetheless. I mean, of all things to do...:confused:

man, that story has been said about so many teachers!
Some old chinese guy must have done this and not everyone somehow has done this.

Like a guy who challenged you is going to stand there adn do nothing and watch you stick your finger up his nose, which would make some blood I reckon too.

[TenTigers]

it's kinda icky, isn't it?

[SenseiShellie]

I just remember a story about Fred. He was running a school and some guy came in his office and challenged him. Fred proceeded to beat the guy senseless with the phone. The guy saw how tough Fred was and decided to take lessons.

[sun dragon]

Any more stories?

[Rogue Heretic]

LOL...some of these stories are quite funny.

[sun dragon]

LOL...some of these stories are quite funny.

Yes they are. Just like ussd spin version of their history!

[sk girl]

Yes they are. Just like ussd spin version of their history!


Ha they lie about everything!:D

[sk girl]

Have to agree with sk girl. Once you leave ussd and see what else is out there you become more openminded and wished you left those bozo's long ago.


I do wished I left steal your money and your life ussd a long time ago.

[sun dragon]

I do wished I left steal your money and your life ussd a long time ago.


:cool: I hear you.

[ittokaos]

Anybody know anything about Mattera's Shaolin Secrets book? Anyone out there buy it? Is it worth the money? What does it actually have contained in it?

[SenseiShellie]

Anybody know anything about Mattera's Shaolin Secrets book? Anyone out there buy it? Is it worth the money? What does it actually have contained in it?

I bought it...so not worth the money. I could see spending $50 on it.

[ittokaos]

What's in it? Anything of value? Would you consider it secret?

[sun dragon]

What's in it? Anything of value? Would you consider it secret?


Hey would someone burn it along with their USSD Gi and put it on youtube.
Say this what I think of your made up shaolin kempo.
I think I saw a video of shaolin monks peeing on their statue at the temple anyone else see that?

[sk girl]

Anybody know anything about Mattera's Shaolin Secrets book? Anyone out there buy it? Is it worth the money? What does it actually have contained in it?


I bought it and if you want to throwaway good money away for nothing do it.

[SenseiShellie]

What's in it? Anything of value? Would you consider it secret?

It's honestly not that secret. It's a nice book, but not worth the money they are charging. I would pay $50 max for it.

[sun dragon]

It's honestly not that secret. It's a nice book, but not worth the money they are charging. I would pay $50 max for it.


Just take your money and flush it down the toilet, you will get the same results.