I started BJJ!

[Ben Gash]

So I just had my first no gi BJJ lesson (1 on 1). Did drills, basic positions and escapes, was great fun :D

[Shaolin Wookie]

Good luck, man. Is it expensive where you train?

[Ben Gash]

A) I live in Britain and B) I'm having private tuition, so it ain't cheap ;)

[Shaolin Wookie]

I don't think it's cheap anywhere. Are you only doing no-gi, or do they do it half'n'half? I liked gi training better, in my whole 2 month stint with BJJ....hahaha.....

[Ben Gash]

Just no Gi. Gi is only good if you want to compete in BJJ tournaments, which is pretty unlikely for me.

[Knifefighter]

Just no Gi. Gi is only good if you want to compete in BJJ tournaments, which is pretty unlikely for me.

Actually, it is the opposite. No gi is only good if you want to compete in submission grappling, mma, or fight at the beach. If you plan to use your BJJ in most realistic, real life situations where people walk around in pants, shirts, and jackets rather than speedos, board shorts and rash guards, gi is more applicable.

[SevenStar]

yeah, that's true. The train of thought I usually hear is the gi is too thick, he may wear short sleeves, etc. so you want to grab muscles instead of his clothes, etc. But the simple fact of the matter is that your opponent will most likely be wearing clothes, so gi stuff is very applicable. The no gi chokes will be more beneficial than the gi chokes, but the other gi techniques very much apply.

[SenseiShellie]

I've been studying with the Gi and I like it. I have little hands, so it's good for me to have something to grab on to begin with. Making the transition from Gi to No-Gi should be interesting for me...

[Knifefighter]

yeah, that's true. The train of thought I usually hear is the gi is too thick, he may wear short sleeves, etc. so you want to grab muscles instead of his clothes, etc. But the simple fact of the matter is that your opponent will most likely be wearing clothes, so gi stuff is very applicable. The no gi chokes will be more beneficial than the gi chokes, but the other gi techniques very much apply.

Sleeve holds work just almost as well on short sleeves as they do on long sleeves. Some cross grips will cause the shirt to ride up over the opponent's head, which can be a big advantage for tangling the opponent up in his own clothing. Cross grips (with longer sleeves or jackets) are also great for controlling someone from a standing position.

Gi chokes work just as well on jackets and shirts with collars. Chokes with t-shirts just have to be modified in terms of how you bunch up the material to grip it. T-shirt chokes can be really nasty, leaving a ring that looks like you have been hanged by a noose.

Play around using shirts the same way you would with gis. You will end up with a lot of ripped up shirts, but I think you will find some interesting ways to use the clothing to your advantage.

[lkfmdc]

knifefighter,

do you think that some of the modern sport BJJ is too grip obsessed? I grab you this way, but he counters this way, so then I grab this way and he does this.... sort of like modern Judo.... ie to specific to a small set of circumstances

I agree that basic gripping goes a LONG WAY in the street (choked out a guy on the train with a standing x-choke in his colloar not that long ago). But in the street most guys are not counter gripping like in a sport BJJ match like the mundials

[Knifefighter]

knifefighter,

do you think that some of the modern sport BJJ is too grip obsessed? I grab you this way, but he counters this way, so then I grab this way and he does this.... sort of like modern Judo.... ie to specific to a small set of circumstances

I agree that basic gripping goes a LONG WAY in the street (choked out a guy on the train with a standing x-choke in his colloar not that long ago). But in the street most guys are not counter gripping like in a sport BJJ match like the mundials

The basics will give you the most bang for the buck.

Like most of the more advanced things you train in BJJ, after a while you are just training to be better at some very specific things against a relatively fewer and fewer number of skilled people... i.e. he puts on the triangle, I counter with an underhold grip, he counters with an umoplata and an outside control grip looking for a footlock, I counter with a grip that feeds his arm between my legs and sets up a rolling umoplata of my own, etc. The chances that you would meet someone who would know any or all of those counter sequences on the street is beyond miniscule.

However, I don't think it is too grip obsessed if you are interested in getting to the higher levels to be able to hang with those who are also at those higher levels because those things are vital when rolling at that level.

[sunfist]

IMHO, grappling is grappling. The Gi game is generally dissociating more and more with MMA, and so you get some stuff thats sport JJ specific in there, and not as great an emphasis on dealing with an opponent who strikes. No Gi, as mentioned, dropped a lot of tools that are still useful for the street, some would also say its not as technical.

But really, if you are worrying about those things early on, something is wrong. Fine tuning your ground game is unimportant until you actually have a ground game :p So just find some good people and train with them.


Knifefighter, while i agree on the basics giving you the most bang for your buck in a pure grappling sense, wouldnt you say no gi allows for a much quicker and more full integration of a striking skillset, making it ideal for someone who specialises in standup and wants to be functional in the range quickly? I am not arguing, so much as interested in your view of it.

[BM2]

Pablo Popovitch trains in the gi and finished #2 in 170lb twice at Abu Dubai. There are some advantages in sometimes rolling with a gi in training.

[Knifefighter]

Knifefighter, while i agree on the basics giving you the most bang for your buck in a pure grappling sense, wouldnt you say no gi allows for a much quicker and more full integration of a striking skillset, making it ideal for someone who specialises in standup and wants to be functional in the range quickly? I am not arguing, so much as interested in your view of it.

I think it really depends on your goals. No gi is best if you want to fight MMA. However, for the street, I think gi has the advantage.

That being said, I think one could make arguements for both sides and have valid points.

Personally I like both and have always trained both. I like all the control points and all the tricky nuances of the gi and all the sneaky things you can do by manipulating it (most of which can be transferred to regular clothing), but I equally like the speed and athleticism required for no gi.

[Ben Gash]

Hmm, interesting perspectives. Do things like Tshirts not tear if you try to do Gi work on them? This is what's always put me off gi based systems. Once I'm up to speed with the no gi, I'll have to check out some gi then. The endless training quest continues.... TBH though, no gi is more me anyway.

[John Takeshi]

Sure, of course the t-shirts rip. The entire point of shirtless, thong-wearing MMA is to get your opponent naked as quickly as possible, so you can bump and grind like a couple of thugs.

[Knifefighter]

Hmm, interesting perspectives. Do things like Tshirts not tear if you try to do Gi work on them? This is what's always put me off gi based systems. Once I'm up to speed with the no gi, I'll have to check out some gi then. The endless training quest continues.... TBH though, no gi is more me anyway.

T shirts tear quite often and you will go through a lot of them working this way. However, once you start working with them you will learn how to bunch them up and manipulate them in other ways to make them less likely to tear.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sure, of course the t-shirts rip. The entire point of shirtless, thong-wearing MMA is to get your opponent naked as quickly as possible, so you can bump and grind like a couple of thugs.

Well DUH !!

Gi MMA is not that popular, but it does exisit, the Daido Juku is an example and there are some versions of Sport JJ that do striking, I think combat Sambo is another example.

Both Gi and No-Gi are essential.

[MasterKiller]

I prefer no gi. It's a faster game.

[bodhitree]

i'd like to train no gi more, I usually only make it to the gi sessions. I do love all of the things you can do with a gi.

[Shaolin101]

I find Gi to be so much more intricate then no gi. (and it tears up my fingers sometimes!)

Did a lot of no gi at the start and as soon as i got a gi i learned a whole other bunch of tehniques - which can be applied to no gi too - you just grab somewhere else instead of the sleeve.

Obviously you wont be feeding clothing through to choke without a gi but even if you only want no gi training i would suggest learning with one too just for the learning experience and the difference in how you can move with one on or how you are controlled/can control your opponent with one.

Well done on starting - i found it highly addictive straight away as i only ever did stand up and soon realised a black belt in one style can mean nothing when you hit the floor and dont know what to do!

[brianK]

Pablo Popovitch trains in the gi and finished #2 in 170lb twice at Abu Dubai. There are some advantages in sometimes rolling with a gi in training.


Pablo Popovich also practices and teaches no gi at the BJJ center (I'm a white belt there).

Brian