What do you sport fighters think about two man forms?

[diego]

When your young your better off sparring, but I'm thinking two man forms could be usefull when you get past the competing/hard sparring days. In Robert Smith's "Martial Musings" book he talks about old judo masters doing light groundwork to keep their fighting skills somewhat fit...I'm thinking blend light judo/bjj with maybe some light push hands and some non acrobatic two man gung fu sets, you'd be good to go...

I don't do two man sets, but I'm saying I think it could be usefull when you become older...What you think?

[Knifefighter]

When your young your better off sparring, but I'm thinking two man forms could be usefull when you get past the competing/hard sparring days. In Robert Smith's "Martial Musings" book he talks about old judo masters doing light groundwork to keep their fighting skills somewhat fit...I'm thinking blend light judo/bjj with maybe some light push hands and some non acrobatic two man gung fu sets, you'd be good to go...

I don't do two man sets, but I'm saying I think it could be usefull when you become older...What you think?

I'd rather work the bag, focus gloves, and thai pads and do lighter sparring with lots of movement. At least then you get a workout, as well as keeping up your fast twitch muscle fibers.

[Black Jack II]

There is a mix of sparring subsets, like knife said I would take light sparring over a fixed two man form.

But since no one is forcing a gun to anyone's head making them pick one or another you can always do both.

[John Takeshi]

But since no one is forcing a gun to anyone's head making them pick one or another you can always do both.

Actually, in Shao-lin Ninjitsu, we have a two man form where one holds a gun to his partner's head and forces him to choose between free-sparring and a two man form known as "Leopard chases his tail". In the past, it wasn't a loaded gun we used. Shurikens, knives, and occasionally Admiral Kwan's Green Dragon Naginata sufficed. But as Shao-lin Ninjitsu adapts to the times, we practice for everyday scenarios.

[TenTigers]

rather than pre-aranged sets, think of reaction drills, similar to one step sparring, but ad-libbed spontaneous reactions. Partner A attacks, B reacts-and takes it to completion. This way you hone your skills, timing, and technique, to be a reaction rather than the give and take of sparring. Fighting should never be an exchange anyway.
Then you can also add "Flow Fighting" which is continuous fighting, no stop, no retreating, and very controlled so you maintain the ability to keep forward pressure.
Basically everything except give and take sparring.
However, be careful-once you stop getting hit, thrown,banged,you become gun-shy, so you might want to do still have some heavier drills in moderation.
oh, and buy a gun.

[David Jamieson]

pre-arranged sets are for ingranation of the style you are learning.

they teach you shape. as such they are a method of learning and not so much of doing.

to actually fight, one must apply. period. there is no escaping that.

[Black Jack II]

rather than pre-aranged sets, think of reaction drills, similar to one step sparring, but ad-libbed spontaneous reactions

True, but in most Chinese pre-aranged sets do they not have a specific ending to the drill?

Where in a free-flow style drill like in fma hubud or in pushhands it is ever changing.

My point being in doing to much full spectrum pre-aranged training you tend to lock yourself out of the chaos and even depending on the actual techniques sometimes even reality. This statement only goes to those who use this type of training as a sole conditioning element of course.


pre-arranged sets are for ingranation of the style you are learning.

This makes sense to me.

[Pork Chop]

If the 2 man forms were a little better/more realistic I could maybe see doing it but a lot of the ones i've seen are soooo contrived that i can't see a whole lot of benefit.
I've seen a couple 2 man staff forms that didn't look too bad but open hand and the other weapons have pauses more often than not because it just doesn't flow. I admit I haven't seen everything, so maybe there's something great out there, dunno.

yeah sport fighters have 2 person drills. Don't know hubud too well, but I have a feeling it flows with how you'll execute. in boxing/kickboxing if you're going to do 2 person drills, you're going to glove up and not be overly cooperative- protect yourself at all times, don' just leave your arm out there and let yourself get play-hit in the face 25 times.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Two man forms are a little different that regular forms. They are for more intermediate students to make the bridge to free sparring.

Two man sets are collections of two man drills, as well as flow drills.

They all have holes in them that are generally launching points to help start building the ability to deal with unpredictable encounters.

What you do is have your students do the drill as it was taught. When they are good, and start spotting the holes you have them randomly take advantage of them. The defender must alter his pattern and counter the unexpected movement. The attacker must then counter the counter, and so on. It evolves into full free sparring quite naturally, and safely.

Once the students are good at it, they are ready to go full on and resisting with safety gear.

I see it as a good warmup for a day of hard sparring too.

[MasterKiller]

Where are those Muay Thai two-man forms that BJ2 posted? Those were sweet.

[Ben Gash]

they're in the "other related arts" forum. They're nothing special though.

[Black Jack II]

Here are some of the traditional muay thai major two man sets. Some think of them as basic but that is the sole reason I like them. There not supposed to be special, imho special is where the garbage is found.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxB-wKox5iQ