Raymond Wong's Tournament in DC

[BruceSteveRoy]

Any of you going to his tournament this weekend? I think they changed the name of it this year and i know they moved it to georgetown. www.wongpeople.com

[xcakid]

SCHEDULE of EVENTS

8:30 AM Doors Open Competitor Registration=$70 Spectators=$15 Only Cash Accepted

10 AM Sparring Competition, Tai Chi/ Internal styles Commence

12 noon National Anthem, guest speakers, introduce all schools(schools are urged to bring their banner /flag)

1 PM Continuation of competition Forms, Tai Chi, Wing Chun, Weapons, Two person set, Special Olympian Forms & Weapons competition.

5 PM FINISH

HAH....5PM finish. Now that is hilarious. I'd be willing to put money down it ends around 7-8PM


>No crying, pouting, or complaining if the judges do not score in your favor. This is not a carnival or a sports bar; this is a not a sports event this is a competition of art and self expression. The Kung Fu persons actions/reactions indicates how they were taught by their instuctors and raised by their parents. So please behave and do not publicly embarrass your school and family at this high profile event.

Oh boy. I am sure this rule was put in play cause it happened in the past. I only hope it is during kids sparring.

I would love to go, but I am short on cash right now. My contract assignment just ended. So my silly ass is unemployed.

[SaintSage]

Do you have to practice Kung Fu to participate in sparring?

[BruceSteveRoy]

you would have to contact them about that but if i were to venture a guess i would say yes. i believe it is strictly tcma at this tournament.

[TenTigers]

one of the biggest issues in TCMA is the fact that many school don't fight with their Kung-Fu. The only thing that looks like Kung-Fu is their t-shirts.
So..if you want to go as a bad example....;)

[Oso]

RULES FOR SPARRING COMPETITION


>Safety Gear Must Be Worn- Head Gear, Hand Gear(No FingerNails exposed), Foot Gear, Mouth Piece, Groin Cup(usually for males)

>Legal striking areas are front and sides or the body(abdomen) and the padded areas of the Headgear; NO Knockouts

>NO CONTACT to front of face, spine, back of head, knees, groin, neck or throat

No jabs???????


>Grappling/ grabbing, is allowed for 10 second intervals only. NO BODY SLAMS!

>When opponent is standing on one leg, that leg is NOT allowed to be kicked of swept

?????? that's the best time to sweep the leg

>Contact is continuous and delievered with LIGHT to MEDIUM force.

>Each round will be timed one minute ; the best 2 out of three rounds will determine the winner

>Any of the judges or ring managers will call "BREAK" when competitors go out of the ring, when an interval of 8 continuous strikes have been exchanged between the 2 competitors or for any reason that requires this action.

>Rules are subject to change at anytime, so be ready for everything.


ok, with all due respect to Sifu Wong....WTF? rules subject to change? that's the number one thing I've hated about about the tournaments I've gone to around here is the rules aren't played the way they are written...sometimes to a great degree.


>No crying, pouting, or complaining if the judges do not score in your favor. This is not a carnival or a sports bar; this is a not a sports event this is a competition of art and self expression. The Kung Fu persons actions/reactions indicates how they were taught by their instuctors and raised by their parents. So please behave and do not publicly embarrass your school and family at this high profile event.

[lkfmdc]

Raymond Wong and his people are a good lot, known them for years

but with all due respect, I've seen these "point sparring" things, and they are always a lot more contact than advertised, yet still not San Shou/San Da.... it then becomes a matter often of who the judge is in the ring and who you are/who you know/ and who you are affiliatd with

people should just do full contact fighting, point sparring is like ..... well, you figure it out

[Oso]

part of my beef is that very thing: they (not necessarily Wong) let the contact go harder than described in the rules and then make seemingly arbitrary decisions about what then becomes too hard.

the last event we went to down here one of my guys was having a good fight with this guy and they kept calling him on supposed 'kidney' shots that weren't...just looping shots to the body that were a little past the midline but...and the dude quit because he was frustrated by the judging.:mad:

[TenTigers]

yeah, you can jab-but focus your shots to the forehead on the headgear. It's not great, but it's an adjustment you will need to make.
Contact definately has a tendancy to escalate, but there is a huge difference between that and malicious contact-when the person shows an obvious disregard for the opponent's safety and the agreed rules. You can spot intent a mile away. If you cannnot, then you have no business judging, or teaching, or even training in Martial Arts for that matter.
I know it's not full contact, but within the confines of the game, it is definately possible to play, play hard, and play safe.

It is not a streetfight, it is not a championship full contact match. It's a game.
-albiet a rough game, but a game nonetheless, and everybody knows this. You know this going in, so deal with it as such. It's simple, isn't it?

[Oso]

yeah, you can jab-but focus your shots to the forehead on the headgear. It's not great, but it's an adjustment you will need to make.

sorry, don't agree. put on heavier gloves. put on a cage.

Contact definately has a tendancy to escalate, but there is a huge difference between that and malicious contact-when the person shows an obvious disregard for the opponent's safety and the agreed rules.

not my point. if the rules state a certain contact, and give an example of that such as 'don't hit the head hard enough to move it more than an inch or hit the body hard enough to move the opponent back more than 3 inches' (which Wong's doesn't but I've seen other's do) then the first time someone hit's someone harder than that they are warned until they are DQ'd.

what I'm *****ing about is when there is a specified ruleset that isn't followed, or followed in one ring one way and another ring another way.

You can spot intent a mile away. If you cannnot, then you have no business judging, or teaching, or even training in Martial Arts for that matter.

imo, if you haven't gone through some actual training to be certified as a judge then you shouldn't be judging. the real problem at cma events is all the teachers who are judging. even if you are a good teacher you may not be a good judge; just like so many other things we talk about here.

I know it's not full contact, but within the confines of the game, it is definately possible to play, play hard, and play safe.

It is not a streetfight, it is not a championship full contact match. It's a game.
-albiet a rough game, but a game nonetheless, and everybody knows this. You know this going in, so deal with it as such. It's simple, isn't it?

ok, but you are still missing my point...if it's a game then all the more reason for the rules not to be variable, right?

ftr, i'm not raggin on Wong's event in particular.

[TenTigers]

yeah, I don't really understand that part either.
I think it may be Wong-Sifu's sense of humor.
Sometimes, he has a very dry wit.
(which I find funny-even when it's directed at me)

[Oso]

that may be, I've not been around him enough to get too much of a glimpse into his personality.


rules for sparring in a tournament should be simple and firm so that those training for them can train for them and not get 'surprised'. I've heard that excuse before when a ref didn't follow the rules: "well, if you're a real fighter then you should be ready for anything" that's just ****ing horse****. as you say it's a 'game' unless it's full contact w/ knockout. and that's fine. but as you say, 'everyone' knows it's a game but everyone has to play by the same rules; most especially the judges and ref's.

[TenTigers]

I've heard that excuse before when a ref didn't follow the rules: "well, if you're a real fighter then you should be ready for anything" that's just ****ing horse****. as you say it's a 'game' unless it's full contact w/ knockout. and that's fine. but as you say, 'everyone' knows it's a game but everyone has to play by the same rules; most especially the judges and ref's.[/QUOTE]

I hear ya. Man, you must've been in alot of NY tournaments. I know several "judges" who pull that crap alla time. Too many "Sifus" live vicariously through their students. Frankly, I wonder if they actually care about their own students. My guys play hard, but I don't want them going out and getting hurt, or hurting others just to prove to everyone that they're (I'm) tough. People want to get up on Monday morning and go to work, or school. It's not worth it for a two-dollar medal.
Tournaments are supposed to be fun. You get to go out there, show your stuff, meet friends, see other schools, other styles, and have a good experience. It should help boost school morale and pride. But sometimes we have spoiled children, sour grapes, soccer moms, and egos. But that is not the average.
I love tournaments. I have made alot of friends, and seen some great competitors.
I always have a great time at Wong's. For us, getting out, going to DC, seeing the sites, having a fun road trip is all part of the fun. We also enjoy the Wong Fei-Hung tournament run by Yee's Hung-Ga. Next year, I hope to check out the Five Tigers and the Kuoshu tournament,which I hear is run very well.

[BruceSteveRoy]

TT you have the right attitude toward the whole thing.

[Oso]

I hear ya. Man, you must've been in alot of NY tournaments. I know several "judges" who pull that crap alla time.

no, just the ones in NC. i'm sorta glad to see it's not just these guys down here but at the same time sad to see that silliness is pervasive.

Too many "Sifus" live vicariously through their students. Frankly, I wonder if they actually care about their own students.

agreed.

My guys play hard, but I don't want them going out and getting hurt, or hurting others just to prove to everyone that they're (I'm) tough. People want to get up on Monday morning and go to work, or school. It's not worth it for a two-dollar medal.

agreed. however, I've seen more injuries during light contact than full contact.

Tournaments are supposed to be fun. You get to go out there, show your stuff, meet friends, see other schools, other styles, and have a good experience. It should help boost school morale and pride. But sometimes we have spoiled children, sour grapes, soccer moms, and egos. But that is not the average.

I love tournaments. I have made alot of friends, and seen some great competitors.
I always have a great time at Wong's. For us, getting out, going to DC, seeing the sites, having a fun road trip is all part of the fun. We also enjoy the Wong Fei-Hung tournament run by Yee's Hung-Ga. Next year, I hope to check out the Five Tigers and the Kuoshu tournament,which I hear is run very well.

I love tournaments, and competing, as well. I just can't stand the inconsistent judging and rules management that I have yet to see an exception to.

[monji112000]

I competed last year and This year (yesterday).

I can honestly say the judges were trying to be as fare and "safe" as possible. Lets be realistic here, things are going to be different from ring to ring.. its just how these things are. The sparring is basically don't draw blood and don't get caught hitting to the face too many times. Because most of the attacks aren't connecting allot and Basically no head shots( although people were throwing hooks and jabs). I like it for two reasons, its faster pace and two you get more odd angles when people attack (becouse of so many TMCA fighters).

They are so fast becouse most of the contact isn't really doing damage. Thats also a major negative factor. You get people who drop their hands. what happens is punches are flying and people aren't able to pull all punches. SO people get hurt if they aren't fighting smart.

honesty the outcome of these fights differ greatly if you have the same fighters in a full contact (sanda or MT ) match. That isn't saying its not worth doing, its just got its kinks.

I would honestly rather do a full contact match with face guard then do another light sparring match.. but thats what I always say.


I got second (chi sao) and first (WC first form. I lost my last Chi sao match to my older kung fu brother so I was happy with the loss.

I honestly think the judges did a good job from what I experienced. The problem normally isn't the judges its the competitors.

[jo]

one of the biggest issues in TCMA is the fact that many school don't fight with their Kung-Fu. The only thing that looks like Kung-Fu is their t-shirts.
So..if you want to go as a bad example....;)


Like the guys who wear Jook Lum Southern Mantis shirts when they do Hung Ga forms and attempt to fight with kickboxing at every tournament? :p:rolleyes::cool:

-jo

[TenTigers]

we just got back from Wong's and had a great time. I must say, for a small bunch of dedicated people, they put together one he11 of a great tournament. I only brought three students and we came back with mucho gold. The fighting was a challenge, as some judges were not acustomed to "NY STyle"* sparring LOL, so we got DQ'd, just a bit.
There were some really great competitors representing TCMA, as usual. But there were also the WTF? styles represented as well. I have been competing and judging probably longer than most of you have been alive, and I still have trouble judging interpetive dance posing as TCMA.
Congrats to Green Cloud Kung-Fu, and Yee's Hung-Ga. Represent'in NY (ok and Joisey) I have some footage of Sifu Pedro Cepero's guy and mine going at it, as well as Sifu Gus Kapros' student (and my former training bro) Mike Beatto dishing out some Green Cloud knuckle samiches. Will throw it up on youtube...when I figure out how.

*"NY Style" is if the fighters are ok with it, let'em go. Still friends at the end.

[monji112000]

TenTigers,

I noticed someone wearing your school shirt. What did you guys compete in? How did you do? Are you Jow Ga or Hung Ga?

[TenTigers]

we are Hung-Ga. We did good in fighting, my guys winning their first bouts and getting dq'd in the second-oh well, but they had a good time, and weren't (too) bitter about it LOL. Took some firsts in weapons,forms,two-man sets, and I think one second in broadsword, and a third in fighting. All in all, we had a great time. Everyone had fun-which is the only reason to do it in the first place.
So these guys came back stoked. Now they want me to teach them spear, three sectional staff, and horse cutter, so they can enter more divisions. They want to compete in everything-fighting,forms, weapons, long weapons, two-man, two-man weapons, chi-sao, tui-sao, karaoke, synchronized swimming...
I think I'm gonna be real busy...and tired.

[TenTigers]

ttt (to the top)

-ten character minimum...

[Oso]

why were they dq'd?

[TenTigers]

a wee tad excessive contact perhaps. Not treally, though. They were getting hit as well, but when you warn both competitors, the next one to foul gets the dq. Their opponenets were totally cool with the contact level. One guy, from Yee's Hung-Ga under Pedro Cepero,was a good fighter and they both went at it pretty good. In the end, there were no hard feelings, just good clean fun. They were just playin hard, that's all. Nothing excessive, certainly no maliciaous intent on either part.
You can spot right away when you have someone who just goes in there with a complete disregard for the rules and their opponents, and those guys you get rid of asap. Center judges have the disgression to over rule the corner judges if they feel the guy is a risk. Like I said, this was not the case. No sour grapes however. That's just the way the game is played, and they understand this. They had a good time, and made some friends in the process.
We are looking forward to the Yee's Hung-Ga Wong Fei-Hung tournament. Chan-Fai's White Crane school will probably be there, and they have some good fighters-who fight with their Gung-Fu. We are looking forward to competing with them. Should make for some great matches.
I have a new crop of guys and I'm hoping thatthis will whet their appetite for competition. Perhaps leading to sanda, or lei-tai fights. Time will tell.

[Shaolinlueb]

in 2004, i did some light sparring with a guy. he ended up giving me a hard cross into the face and moving my nose and i think he broke it. so then it was all hard contact. i lost because i drew blood first. saw the same thing in the next year. and in i didnt go this year. last year i ducted out cause i was sick.

[Pork Chop]

remember my first "semi contact" experience.
Guy came in with boxing gloves on, trying to do san shou.
small guy, so he went in with the assumption of having to go hard
caught me with a nice spinning backfist.

then my first "semi contact" experience on the east coast
guy ran at me full boar, put up a side kick, but way outweighed the guy so when i just sat on it a bit to keep distance his momentum got reversed and he fell back.
after that it was rock 'em sock 'em robots... he won somehow.

if you're going to make the contact reduced, the score the skill otherwise, just make it full contact. hate that crud.

[Oso]

TT: ok, thanks for the info.