'Push' as technique

[bustr]

In the dynamic application of this technique do you round your back and tuck you buttocks or do you square up in a front stance the way it is taught in the form? I've always rounded my back. I recently started training in Yang TaiChiChuan and was taught to practice this technique in a front stance.

Thanks

Bustr

[Sam Wiley]

Bustr,
I'm not sure if I understand the phrase "square up in a front stance," but yes, you should be rounding your back a bit for power when doing the form. This is the same way it would be done for real. However, pushing someone in a fight is not recommended as it does not do a whole lot except make them mad. Your hands should strike more than push. As far as stance when actually using it, I would recommend the front sitting bow and arrow stance for power, so that even if you cannot yet fa-jing, you can still at least get good physiacl power.

*********
"I put forth my power and he was broken.
I withdrew my power and he was ground into fine dust."
-Aleister Crowley, The Vision and the Voice

[TheBigToad]

Butr,

Yes, rounding the back is ok but the majority of the action will come from the usage of the legs and directing it through the hands.

Yes, the push a valid technique just greatly depends on how you use it which is why it is best to get information from people who have experience in such things.

The push is just that, a push. In working in private security I've used this same method to put people into walls and follow up with something else or to send people down flights of stairs, send people into other incoming attackers and over a ledge.

A friend of mine who just came back from Russia and was working a high level executive security team and a wu style taiji player for 20 years has video of him using a roll back and press to send an individual into the path of an on coming car..
-Kevin

I am the big toad and this is my pond.

[Brad]

Do all the major taiji styles have prearanged paterns/partner drills for introducing students to push hands?

[Wingman]

I don't know about the other tai chi styles, but Wu style has prearanged paterns/partner drills for introducing students to push hands. First the single hand push hands. Then then the double hand push hands. Your wrist is in contact with your opponent's wrist, while your other hand is controlling the opponent's elbow. There is also push hands with stepping. After this, the push hands becomes more spontaneous (freestyle).

[Walter Joyce]

Classical Yang takes a similar approach. We also do dynamic push hands as a power building exercise.

[Water Dragon]

The push hands thread got me thinking about this one. I've never seen 'Push' used as a technique outside of a few Chinese arts. Personally, I like it. It's not a fight ender, but it can be used tactically inside a clinch. Almost like a teep, but I've used it one I felt I was about to get tossed. It also tends to surprise the other guy cause it's unexpected. Anyone else got thoughts on this? DOes it have value, is it a waste of time?

[lkfmdc]

The push hands thread got me thinking about this one. I've never seen 'Push' used as a technique outside of a few Chinese arts. Personally, I like it. It's not a fight ender, but it can be used tactically inside a clinch. Almost like a teep, but I've used it one I felt I was about to get tossed. It also tends to surprise the other guy cause it's unexpected. Anyone else got thoughts on this? DOes it have value, is it a waste of time?

You need to get out more, pushing is a tactic in a LOT of traditions

of course, they don't do prearranged ritualastic pre set structures like Taiji does, TCMA seems prone to trying to capture fluid and live motion into static drills, a major issue as far as functionality

[Water Dragon]

haha, I know I need to get out more. Do you use it in your school?

[Edmund]

I've never seen 'Push' used as a technique outside of a few Chinese arts.

Sumo.

I hear it's from Japan.

[TenTigers]

pushing is most certainly a fight ender.
You could push them off the subway platform, push them into traffic, push them down an elevator shaft, down a stairwell, off a building, into a vat of boiling tripe, into the gaping jaws of crocodile infested waters, over a cliff into the chasm of the feiry pits of h3ll, all sorts of nasty, nasty things. You simply have to lose that "sportfighting mindset":p

[5Animals1Path]

Sumo.

I hear it's from Japan.

Best answer possible. Thread over. :D

[Yum Cha]

Bloody Oath! Push is a major technique. Getting into the short range goodies.

[Black Jack II]

Dumog uses pushes, often using the shoulder or upper arm as the leverage/seam point.

[SevenStar]

muay thai pushes to make space. boxers shoulder, which can push.

[PangQuan]

pushes are a great way to p!ss people off too.

how many fights start because some guy got pushed?

[BruceSteveRoy]

you know when a push is really effective? when you have a friend thats willing to crouch down on his hands and knees behind someone. classic.

[Fuzzly]

you know when a push is really effective? when you have a friend thats willing to crouch down on his hands and knees behind someone. classic.

And hilarious!

I haven't specifically been trained to push, however I have used it. If I'm in a clinch or body-to-body situation and feel my opponent off balance, sometimes I'll push, or pull.

When doing "earth" training, we begin by just pushing/pulling each other in different directions. This lets us get comfortable with reacting to energy before adding techniques. Techniques, I feel, are just forming the energy I'd been training to give/receive from my opponent anyways.

Also-If it happens to be a part of the sport, why not? In the 11 year old fight vid that's on here, you can see both kids pushing each other off the ring. We had seen that when you try to throw your opponent off, the person being thrown would just hold on and take the other person with them. When they pushed, they could disconnect easily and not worry as much about going along for the ride.

[diego]

pushing is most certainly a fight ender.
You could push them off the subway platform, push them into traffic, push them down an elevator shaft, down a stairwell, off a building, into a vat of boiling tripe, into the gaping jaws of crocodile infested waters, over a cliff into the chasm of the feiry pits of h3ll, all sorts of nasty, nasty things. You simply have to lose that "sportfighting mindset":p

all i can think of is that wutang skit

hang you off a twenty storey building by your **** and ****:D

take a hot screwdriver stick it in your ass slowww like TSSSsssss.

[diego]

ohya i was taught a push in my first kajukenbo hop ga set...you get behind the guy in left leg weighted cat stance and check his back with your left and right backfist rolling to the back of his neck or head, then quickly right side kick to his support knee, drop in between his legs in right bow stance taking his center and do a double push hands verticle to his kidneys/lower back area...jump with him as he falls on his stomach and land right knee on lower back, right ball of foot stomps his groin from behind...do a skip...left foot goes to his left side around his rib-chest area, you lift the right knee, then do the same on the right, step your right foot to his right, but this time use your left foot to turn him over at his shoulder use a hooking motion of the foot with a flipping motion of the ankle...then left foot jumps back to left side and right side stomp kick his face as he turns, drop down to right kneel stance and right palm his face, left palm check his face, and right vertical punch his groin area and rip up his center to be a *****.

[GeneChing]

How to Push Without Pushing: Teaching Everyone a Way to Use Tai Chi's Elastic Potential Energy (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=1177) by Robert Dreeben

[Martin2]

"An" is not just "pushing" but has a complex background of strategic thinking.

Enjoy:

http://taichi-philosophy.blogspot.de/2014/08/article-hand-technique-an.html

Martin

[bawang]

push is longfist codeword for palm punch

[SPJ]

An is to use your palms to absorb or neutralize the opponent's power or energy away from your vital.

and change its direction forward and downward and toward the opponents center of gravity.

It could be the opponent's forearm, elbow, shoulder or together.

There are more things going on then just push forward and downward.

In general, all tai ji techniques involve hua jin first then counter. Even thou they may both happen at the same time.

We have to think about it all the time in Tai Ji.

:cool: