Upgrading of Fighting Techniques

[Mjmlnsl]

Why do so many martial artists of any style or system - Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thai, Brazilian etc resort to the SAME basic punch / kick or kickbox combinations when they fight - no matter their style ?

For so many years I have seen people train in various systems, learn countless forms & techniques - drill them over and over again in classes - and perform them flawlessly in controlled fighting drills and sparring -

BUT when it comes down to a real fighting match against a stranger - whether it be in or out of the ring - that 99% of people resort back to basic kickboxing ???

Why do their "techniques" and their "styles" go out the window ?

Notice in many videos of fights - be it UFC , YouTube, etc - most resort to non-technique based fighting ?

Most things in our lives improve and become updated as time passes - whether it be medicine, science, technology, etc - why do most people not look to update and improve their martial skill and bring it into the 21st century ?

Most people would laugh at someone using an old PC, driving an old car or wearing outdated clothes - but martial artists want to "keep the art pure" and teach techniques "the way they were taught" - why do a great deal of martial artists not update their fighting ? Why do they use the techniques they have learned the same way that is from "centuries ago"?

Look at western boxers from the 1900's and you will see a stand up style of fighting - versus a boxer of today that is more crouched and mobile.

I take the basics of my martial skills and adapt and enhance them to not only work in today's world but simultaneously to be as simple as possible.

One example - most of us are able to walk all day long - SIMPLY WALK - why not adapt your fighting stepping patterns to coincide and be as simple as walking ?

When you walk naturally you have your best balance, you are your most fluid, you have great agility and the most speed of movement - YET - when most people fight they retreat into their "stances" or their "footwork pattern" - WHY ?

Think about the statements I have made and the questions I have asked and if anyone wishes to converse about this topic I will gladly share my views, knowledge and experience with what I have done and currently do.


Mark Manganiello

[sunfist]

Walking is the balance of agility and speed of movement with long term economy of motion and conservation of energy. To optimise performance in the short term, as one would wish to do in a life-threatening situation, alters the nature of the movement. Then we add in alignment and power generation and thing get considerably heavier, this is countered by further changes to retain enough mobility blah blah blah.

Point being that while we all have some natural ability to swim, you aint gonna break any records with a doggie paddle. 'Naturalness' or ziran or whatever is an important aspect to the martial arts, but its trained in careful balance with many other equally important aspects.

As for 'upgrading' the arts, where martial arts differs from science and technology is we are stuck with the same tools our ancestors had. Has our use of them improved? id say not really. Its changed, sure, but thats because the methods of expressing it have changed. The venues, the rules, the cultural rituals surrounding fighting in our society. IMHO the only true 'upgrade' we can give the arts is a visit to the gun shop. Where the progression needs to be made is in our own use and understanding of them.

[SIFU RON]

It all to do with the type of training students receive. They get this from their Sifu.
Teachers that have experienced self-defense or have been in a situation where they have had to defend themselves in a life or death situation have a better outlook than those who have not.

Time changes, go back to the 60's and 70's.....students were trained differently....all Martail Arts centered around self-defense....we still train that way..and without all the "padding".

I have been in several of these situations, a person really doesn't have any idea of how they will respond to any given situation. Kung Fu saved me.

Sifu Ron

[SAAMAG]

I think it's because people tend to stick with what's been proven to work in a full contact atmosphere. Boxing is simple and effective and is based on human body mechanics (as opposed to a bird, or lion, or cheetah, etc).

I also used gung fu style punches and strikes in addition to my boxing. I use my body in accordance with whatever flow of energy I'm giving (or am giving).

I think kickboxing is natural to most basic martial artists, it works, and is learnt relatively quickly. That is why we see it most often.

Though I've posed an offshoot of this question in the wing chun forum about fighting in a particular style should resemble that styles techniques and concepts. (So I complelety see where you're coming from).

[sanjuro_ronin]

Why do so many martial artists of any style or system - Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thai, Brazilian etc resort to the SAME basic punch / kick or kickbox combinations when they fight - no matter their style ?

Because they work, consistently.


BUT when it comes down to a real fighting match against a stranger - whether it be in or out of the ring - that 99% of people resort back to basic kickboxing ???


That should tell you something.


Look at western boxers from the 1900's and you will see a stand up style of fighting - versus a boxer of today that is more crouched and mobile.

Two birds of a different species.


One example - most of us are able to walk all day long - SIMPLY WALK - why not adapt your fighting stepping patterns to coincide and be as simple as walking ?



maximum speed and power with least amount of effort in strikes ( for example) does not come from "walking naturally" and besides that, not everyone walks "correctly" to begin with.

[SIFU RON]

I think it's because people tend to stick with what's been proven to work in a full contact atmosphere. Boxing is simple and effective and is based on human body mechanics (as opposed to a bird, or lion, or cheetah, etc).

I also used gung fu style punches and strikes in addition to my boxing. I use my body in accordance with whatever flow of energy I'm giving (or am giving).

I think kickboxing is natural to most basic martial artists, it works, and is learnt relatively quickly. That is why we see it most often.

Though I've posed an offshoot of this question in the wing chun forum about fighting in a particular style should resemble that styles techniques and concepts. (So I complelety see where you're coming from).

well taken point. Let me clarify another point. In refering to Kung Fu, I am refering to the closed first styles, as found in Chinese and all boxing.

American boxing is excellant , as is kick boxing.

Street fighters are also a dangerous breed.

Thanks, Sifu Ron

[boshea]

...

BUT when it comes down to a real fighting match against a stranger - whether it be in or out of the ring - that 99% of people resort back to basic kickboxing ???

Why do their "techniques" and their "styles" go out the window ?

Notice in many videos of fights - be it UFC , YouTube, etc - most resort to non-technique based fighting ?

...


What makes you think that kickboxing has no technique? That's probably not what you meant, but your post seems to imply it.

Granted, kickboxing is a simple martial art when compared to some other traditional styles, but it definitely has technique. Perhaps it's just that the techniques that it focuses on are the ones that you say all "real" fights ultimately resort to. In that sense, I call it pragmatic, not lacking in technique.

[hafoc]

Fighting is chaos. There can be technique in it, but it's often hard to spot. There is technique in this. See if you can see it: http://youtube.com/watch?v=6iDlzL7zrNU

Also, you'all might want to ask why sanda/sanshou has incorporated western boxing hands. They do it because it works. Moreover, I personally think that boxing hands technique is implicit in wushu anyway.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Fighting is chaos. There can be technique in it, but it's often hard to spot. There is technique in this. See if you can see it: http://youtube.com/watch?v=6iDlzL7zrNU

Also, you'all might want to ask why sanda/sanshou has incorporated western boxing hands. They do it because it works. Moreover, I personally think that boxing hands technique is implicit in wushu anyway.

"Boxing hands" work best with gloves.

[hafoc]

"Boxing hands" work best with gloves.


Apparently you did not watch the video.:)

[ShaolinWood]

Hi, I hear what you say, and that is in fact a very common occurance.

The reason for this (I believe) is that many styles of martial arts actually teaches you to react in a different manner than what is natural for your body. Your natural instinct in a confrontation would be to throw punches and kicks and try to injure your opponent with a rush of adrenaline to support your actions.

MA teaches you to try and stay calm, and instead, react with a system of calculated movements and reactions. Staying calm in the first place is not natural, and can only be mastered after lot's of training and experience, the same with the style of combat that you learn.

My point is that there isn't many people that actually masters the art.
But the ones that do don't fight like most clips you see on youtube. I've seen some excellent techniques being used in very effective ways. If trained combat doesn't "work" why is it still taught to members of special forces and police?

What I'm trying to say is you can't judge a style that has been working for many years for many people by practitioners that can't master it/or haven't yet. In the end it all depends on the practitioner...

[sanjuro_ronin]

Apparently you did not watch the video.:)

LOL !

Yes I did and the point was that, the reason boxing is "adapted" to gloved sport combat systems is because it was designed for gloved hands.

[GiggityZZ]

actually the gloves are so the boxer does not hurt his hand as much and doesnt deliver as hard of a hit.

bareknuckle fighting is much more brutal than boxing Queensbury rules.
square punches with bare knuckles is more deadly than punching someone in the nose with boxing gloves.

why do u think muay thai boxers usually spar with boxing gloves? its for safety measures