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CrazyDan
05-14-2001, 07:25 PM
Or is it more like just different concepts/techniques you add to your current martial art?

samurai
05-14-2001, 07:30 PM
It really depends on who teaches it. There are basically two different viewpoints on JKD. The first is that it is a complete system called Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do. The other school of thought is that it is a concepts based system designed to build upon other styles. Both arguements have strong points and weakpoints.
Thanks
Jeremy Bays

8stepsifu
05-14-2001, 07:56 PM
JKD is not even a system, let alone a complete one.

Its a philosophy called "mixed bag o tricks"

But if JUN Fan is a complete system I didn't know that. I didn't realize that they had advanced internal arts that met, crossed over and complimented the external arts, I didn't realize that they had medecine that tied into their fighitng theories. I thought they were free from all those "Trappings" just as a bum is free of mortgage. wow, Jun Fan with the 9 palaces and eight perfect methods and 6 harmonies, wow...I mean they use the yin-yang symbol in their logo, but from the way they fight it doesn't seem that they have the foggiest idea what it means.

But hey that must be "public fighitng" because they are a complete system after all. So everything is tied into one set of princibles and adapted around those theories.

I mean its not like Jun Fan is the slopyy joe of the MA, its not like it was fashioned after a movie star or an egomaniac with rudimentary kung fu that quoted the Tao Te CHing a if it were his own reflections. Because that would just be silly.

Obviously Jun Fan is from a lineage holding Master of a kung fu system that devised a NEW theory to base his techniques and princibles around.

Its not like a guy with 25 techniques devised a theory of "you don't need many techniques" based on the fact that he didn't have many. Then it would be a streetfighting form and not a system....wait a minute...didn't Bruce Say it was a streetfighitng art and not a system


Take the world lightly, and your spirit will not be burdened. Consider everything minor, and your mind will not be confused. Regard death and life as equal, and your heart will not be afraid.

apoweyn
05-14-2001, 09:12 PM
8step,

Is this what you mean by taking the world lightly?

I assume that's your quote, as it's not cited otherwise (the way one might cite the Tao te ching, for example).

You know, I really hate getting into discussions like this, but this "analysis" of JKD is so much less than I would have expected from someone with your background.

JKD isn't the greatest thing since the wheel. To say it was would be dishonest. But to dismiss it as so much rubbish is just as much so. How much actual experience do you have with it?


Stuart

Black Jack
05-14-2001, 09:42 PM
Just when you think somebody has got a head on their shoulders :rolleyes:

1. You don't need internal arts to have a complete anything. Most fighters don't even believe in any internal aspect of the martial arts or care about its existance if they believed there was such a thing.

2. What do you even know about Jun Fan/JKD Concepts? Have you EVER trained at a JKD gym for any length of time to come to these kinds of conclusions or is that the Grandmaster Sun way of getting more people to sign contracts and get their sifu rank within two years.

3. Who cares about the eight perfect harmonies or the nine palaces??? Blah-Blah-Blah.

4. Sloppy joes of the MA world are those that have bad things stated about them time and time again...ho-hum you know who I am talking about...you don't see JKD teachers sueing each other over copyright and name useage like your organization, you don't see JKD teachers having problems with their Grandmasters claim to fame as you do, you don't see people jumping all over Dan Inosanto and saying he is a fraud, lair and swindler like they do about Grandmaster Sun.

4. You don't need many techniques and in fact to many techniques are just going to screw you up in the real world. You want to know the reason you guys have so many forms, techniques, and traditional weapons, its because of the all-mighty dollar, keep them busy and let them think they are getting somewhere with stories of how your Grandmaster can jump over a three story building, move the clouds with his chi, be unmovable no matter how many people push him, take out 50 attackers with his bare hands, kill tigers with powerfull iron palm blows, give them low mantis, high mantis, mantis in the bathroom, mantis in the closet, mantis at fire island, but what do you do when your student of 5 years gets his head torn off by a boxer with one year in training.

When you are in a glass house you should not throw stones.

If it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, it must be a commerical *****. :D

Regards

4 Ranges
05-14-2001, 10:41 PM
In answer to the original question, no, it is not.

However, there is no such thing as a complete system. I'd be wary of anyone who tries to tell you that theirs is the best, let alone complete.

8stepsifu:

Every sifu (I mean REAL sifus), regardless of style or skill, have all had one trait that I've found admirable and worth emulating: RESPECT. Respect not just for other styles, but other individuals AND their styles.

Bruce Lee may have been CRITICAL of other styles, but by no means disrespectful.

You can have your opinions and your definitions of what a "complete" style may be, but to disrespect a combat-tested discipline based on your own bias and misinformation shows a lack of self-control and is, ultimately, tasteless. Coming from a "sifu", you should be ashamed.

I'm not sure how much of the actual tai chi teachings you've absorbed, but, based on your previous post, you are certainly not worthy of the title "sifu."

PEACE

Never confuse sparring with fighting. One is an exchange of skill; the other an exchange of blood.

RAYNYSC
05-15-2001, 05:45 AM
What's up with that Black Jack?. I take it you didn't like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. :D
By the way who's Grandmaster Sun? :confused:

RAYNYSC

remo
05-15-2001, 07:55 AM
I was always under the impression that JKD was Bruce Lee's own personal expression of himself that was with him in life and unfortunately left when he died. :(

JKD of today has seemed to taken on a life of its' own. I'd agree with the observation of Samurai with the two main directions of JKD.

By the by, hello Samurai, good to see you here. :)

nick

"We forge our bodies in
the fire of our will." Han
from 'Enter the Dragon'

8stepsifu
05-15-2001, 06:14 PM
4ranges: Most Sifus think the same, just wont say it publicly. I never said that JKD didn't have merit, but it's no a complete system and as an art and science is no where near a complete martial art.

as for being a "real" sifu, believe what you want, your just a plebian begginer anyways. You couldn't understand what I was talking about if I spelled it out for you.

The cluelessness on this board really revolts me. I got on this board because since I began my training I wanted to know that someone else was out there, training hard and learning a lot. I learned that there are probably 2 or 3....the rest are just clowns.

I didn't believe my instructor when he said, "were special" but now after seeing what idiots people are, I have to agree


Take the world lightly, and your spirit will not be burdened. Consider everything minor, and your mind will not be confused. Regard death and life as equal, and your heart will not be afraid.

Grappling-Insanity
05-15-2001, 08:39 PM
If the cluelessnes of this board upsets you go back to internal arts forum where everyone will agree with you. I dont go into the internal arts forums dissing tai chi or whatever. I know what the response would be. But what your doing is going to a JKD forum and saying how bad it is. And you excpect people to agree with you lol. Seriously you are mentally reatarded if you think tai chi is more street effective than JKD. I've barely ever seen a crappy JKD instructor. On the other hand I've seen many not so good tai chi ppl. Give some1 8 months in tai chi and give some1 8 months in JKD, get a fight between the two. My moneys on the JKD guy, at least he knows what its like to be hit hard and many times. So in other words keep your opinions to yourself. :mad:

Grappling-Insanity
05-15-2001, 08:43 PM
And you dont need 100 techniqes for the street. How many times have you seen a tai chi ..um slow motion throw? The only things I've seen on the street are jabs,crosses, eye gouges, groin strikes, and boot stompings.

apoweyn
05-15-2001, 09:06 PM
8step,

If you're going to insult the intelligence of everyone on this board, please bear in mind that it's:

"We're special."

It's a contraction. It's short for "We are special."

And yes you are.


Stuart

4 Ranges
05-15-2001, 10:20 PM
Of course I wouldn't be able to understand if you spelled it out: because you can't spell to begin with.

"Begginers" is spelled "beginners."

"Plebian" is spelled "plebeian."

You can call me whatever you wish, you can call yourself whatever you wish, but know this:

you're only a keyboard-warrior, and I take you lightly.

VERY lightly.

Never confuse sparring with fighting. One is an exchange of skill; the other an exchange of blood.

Daedalus
05-15-2001, 11:11 PM
Actually, "Jun Fan" was simply Bruce's name. Lee Jun Fan (sirname first).

And I must agree with those who say that JKD in either form is not a completed "style". It is however a complete system (my terminology may be different from everyone's). Jun Fan Gung Fu(Jun Fan JKD) was Bruce's own personal expression of kung fu. It died with him.

Jeet Kune Do, however, is open to individual interpretation. If your ideal martial arts system which compliments your natural attributes best and meets your current martial needs is complete without internal skills or grappling skills, then so be it. It is complete in whatever stage the individual practicioner decides it is complete.

Keep in mind, however, that the philosophy of JKD says that combat is a living, breathing entity and is in a constant state of change. Therefore, how can any martial arts system ever be complete.

Did I just contradict what I said earlier?

Oh well,..point taken :D

CrazyDan
05-18-2001, 03:27 AM
hmmm, i posted this in the main forum ,i never posted this thread on this forum, what is it doing here? maybe someone moved the thread or something..

Watchman
05-18-2001, 05:03 AM
Kung Lek copied it over.

You guys are ranting at 8step and he doesn't even frequent this forum.

apoweyn
05-22-2001, 10:26 PM
Probably just as well. This had degenerated anyway (largely thanks to me).


Stuart

Watchman
05-22-2001, 11:38 PM
Yeah, but we still love ya.

DarkKnight
06-03-2001, 08:15 PM
Jeet Kune Do is a concept, pure and simple. Bruce Lee had a martial philosophy based on his Taoist beliefs. He was quite the philosopher and uniquely intelligent. From a wing chun stand point he was a novice. From a martial artist's stand point, his physical skills were undeniable.
Let's not bring up Dan Inosanto, because he is more JKD than Bruce ever was. One does not have to follow the Inosanto/Lee curiculm to be a student of JKD. No way no how is JKD (or Jun Fan Gung Fu) a complete system.
JKD=philosophy
Jun Fan=Kickboxing/Wing Chun
JMHO
DarkKnight-

apoweyn
06-03-2001, 09:09 PM
Cheers Watchman.

Stuart

shaolinboxer
06-03-2001, 10:34 PM
There is an important point that I think we are missing.

One vital component of JKD, besides the freedom of incorporation and the road to selfdiscovery, is interception itself.

What do we mean by intercept? Well, I do not think it is simply to hit the other guy first. Rather, it is to develop a sensitivity to the emotional intent of the opponent. This way, the JKD player "reads the mind" of the opponent, and can use whatever technique he/she wishes to defeat that emotional intent (which will lead to the opponents attack and the destruction thereof).

This is an important concept in all high level martial arts. Lee was just able to articulate it so well, and combine it with his own sense of idealism, so it seemed unique.