Bagua fight footage

[Black Jack II]

Bagua fight footage from some Taiwan tourney.

http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=zm-BFs08ZeI

[The Willow Sword]

I guess Blow Job II is trying to make a point about bagua or something. Something he knows absolutely nothing about:rolleyes:

sigh, Anyway,,,TWS

[Shaolinlueb]

this has been posted before.

[Black Jack II]

I guess Blow Job II is trying to make a point about bagua or something. Something he knows absolutely nothing about

Listen you skinny little f@ggot *****, unless you have a real point to make instead of talking out of your c@nt of a mouth, then make it, otherwise shut up and try and learn something, even with Down Syndrome you can make some progress.

Little kid acting like he is all grown up.

btw, you don't need to know bagua to know that looked like junk. F@ckin kung fu poser.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Bagua fight footage from some Taiwan tourney.

http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=zm-BFs08ZeI

I have seen that clip called everythign from bagua, to taichi, to northern mantis to "bear wiping arse with rabbit".
:D

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Who was the opponent?

[cjurakpt]

it wasn't Bagua - it was Butler sparring - obviously a mistranslation - obviously, the little white gloves are a dead giveaway (and I think the tournament was the Cadbury Classic)

[The Willow Sword]

Listen you skinny little f@ggot *****, unless you have a real point to make instead of talking out of your c@nt of a mouth, then make it, otherwise shut up and try and learn something, even with Down Syndrome you can make some progress.

Little kid acting like he is all grown up.

btw, you don't need to know bagua to know that looked like junk. F@ckin kung fu poser.


and what,pretell, was YOUR whole POINT by posting this vid?(WHICH i might add has been posted here a hundred times or more)?

Ba-a-a-a-a-a-ah!! Ba-a-a-a-a-a!!! Got your goat didnt i?:D

May want to calm down a tad, posts like that above quoted can get you banned here.

Your Downs Kungfu poser,TWS:cool:

[IronWeasel]

Listen you skinny little f@ggot *****, unless you have a real point to make instead of talking out of your c@nt of a mouth, then make it, otherwise shut up and try and learn something, even with Down Syndrome you can make some progress.

Little kid acting like he is all grown up.

btw, you don't need to know bagua to know that looked like junk. F@ckin kung fu poser.


LOL!

This is how Internet Challenges are born!

You'd never hear people talking like this about M.A. in person...

[Knifefighter]

I have seen that clip called everythign from bagua, to taichi, to northern mantis to "bear wiping arse with rabbit".
:D

The guy in black was bagua... notice the circle walking in the beginning. It was also posted on You Tube by a bagua guy.

[Knifefighter]

and what,pretell, was YOUR whole POINT by posting this vid?(WHICH i might add has been posted here a hundred times or more)?

Never saw that clip before.

And, like any full contact fight (even though there were no head shots), there are things to be learned.

It was a good example of what happens when two guys use their stylized fighting methods against someone who is not playing the same game and trying to do damage back.

As you can see by the clip, it didn't take either one of them that long before they both figured out that the stylized hand waving and circle walking bullsh!t doesn't work. They both ended up switching to a more realistic boxing/kickboxing fighting method... the guy in the yellow quickly learned that he could do a lot more damage with crosses and uppercuts than he could with his bridging and trapping.

[SPJ]

It was Kuoshu invitational in Taipei.

The one in yellow is using Shuai Jiao. The rules favored Shuai Jiao. It think it was posted many times in Bulshido. I think I posted here and Bulshido, too.

John Wang had several friends attended that particular meet.

The garden gloves are to prevent scratching and pinching from nails. No head shots.

--

I posted them as Shuai Jiao any one?

I found them in one of univ, california edu. site.

--

:D

[street_fighter]

Never saw that clip before.

And, like any full contact fight (even though there were no head shots), there are things to be learned.

It was a good example of what happens when two guys use their stylized fighting methods against someone who is not playing the same game and trying to do damage back.

As you can see by the clip, it didn't take either one of them that long before they both figured out that the stylized hand waving and circle walking bullsh!t doesn't work. They both ended up switching to a more realistic boxing/kickboxing fighting method... the guy in the yellow quickly learned that he could do a lot more damage with crosses and uppercuts than he could with his bridging and trapping.

knifefighter, when did you get out of your midlife crisis?:eek: your posts have been so tempered lately. you might even be getting some of your messages across now. keep it up.

[Chosen-frozen]

Listen you skinny little f@ggot *****, unless you have a real point to make instead of talking out of your c@nt of a mouth, then make it, otherwise shut up and try and learn something, even with Down Syndrome you can make some progress.

Little kid acting like he is all grown up.

btw, you don't need to know bagua to know that looked like junk. F@ckin kung fu poser.

What happened? Drop your thesorous?

[SPJ]

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38489&highlight=video+shuai+jiao

:D

[Black Jack II]

May want to calm down a tad, posts like that above quoted can get you banned here.

So is the statement below you little cogenital defect.


I guess Blow Job II is trying to make a point about bagua or something. Something he knows absolutely nothing about

:rolleyes:


and what,pretell, was YOUR whole POINT by posting this vid?

I don't owe a 16 year old, American hating twerp like you any explanation. Your a tiny zit on my a$$. I still remeber your unhinged post about hoping your own country fails over in Iraq and how you think our own soliders get everything they deserve.

So again, I don't owe you nada.

If you can't see an object lesson in that vid than its not my deal.

[doug maverick]

well i'm speaking purley from someone who has been in many a fight. one thing people don't seem to get on this forum is that tournament fighting and real fighting are totally defferent your life is not onm the line the ring. now that being said. bagua circle walking actually does work in a fight(this is coming from someone who has utillized it remember) but you have to change things from practice to actual fighting the circle walking is not intended to make people dizzy thats some dumb s hit some bagua teacher probably made up make in the day. its to tach you how to manuever around your oponant how to get behind him effectively. the idea in a real fight is ofcourse to get rid of your opponent as fast of possible. so you could run like the wind before the cops get there or the gusy buddies can catch you.lol

i just hate when people say cma doesn't work cause it does. but i'll say this cma is useless in the ring cause its limited by rules(you can't use a tiger claw to rip someone pec muscle in a ring) i hope people on here are not determining ring fights for real fights.

Fact 90% of all fights do not end up on the floor, there is no evidance stating that, and from my own experience i maybe went to the ground once or twice. cause in nyc the last place you want to be is on the floor cause thats how you get timbaland uped(for thsoe who don't know what that means it mean getting your brains stomped out by your opponents buddies) the idea in a fight is to destroy the target in the quickest amount of time. if for example(i study xing yi) i would use xing yi's drill fist to punch you in the throat followed by its crushing fist to your gut your done thats it fight over, and i'm turning into a track star. well any just adding my two cent to the whole thing. oh and the guy in the clip is one of park bok nams main students and he can actually kick ass that footage is from the 70's.

[Christopher M]

btw, you don't need to know bagua to know that looked like junk.

That's true. But you do need to know something about bagua to know if it's bagua that's being represented. For example, Knifefighter has commented that "circle walking bullsh!t doesn't work." But this idea of walking around your opponent isn't what circle walking is. It's like if you saw a boxer skipping, imagined that boxing is when you try to fight someone by hopping up and down and wiggling your hands around, and so started posting online about what unrealistic bullsh!t boxing is. Would anyone take you seriously? Or would they think you're acting like a petulant child? Would anyone think you've got a down-to-earth, scientific mindset? Or would they think you're making yourself look foolish by going around posting diatribes on topics you don't have any experience with?

[BlueTravesty]

That's true. But you do need to know something about bagua to know if it's bagua that's being represented. For example, Knifefighter has commented that "circle walking bullsh!t doesn't work." But this idea of walking around your opponent isn't what circle walking is. It's like if you saw a boxer skipping, imagined that boxing is when you try to fight someone by hopping up and down and wiggling your hands around, and so started posting online about what unrealistic bullsh!t boxing is. Would anyone take you seriously? Or would they think you're acting like a petulant child? Would anyone think you've got a down-to-earth, scientific mindset? Or would they think you're making yourself look foolish by going around posting diatribes on topics you don't have any experience with?

good post. It's also like someone seeing a video of a BJJ tourney and armchairing about how anonymous man in Gi 1 could've kept his opponent from taking him down. I can hear it now
"I could've teeped to keep that takedown from happening"
"But you can't teep in BJJ tournaments"
"So what's your point?"

[Knifefighter]

oh and the guy in the clip is one of park bok nams main students and he can actually kick ass that footage is from the 70's.

Didn't look like he was able to kick that much ass there.


its to tach you how to manuever around your oponant how to get behind him effectively.

Yeah, we saw how effective that worked for him. Sure was able to get behind him effectively. What was the "rule" that prevented him from doing that?



but i'll say this cma is useless in the ring cause its limited by rules(you can't use a tiger claw to rip someone pec muscle in a ring)

LOL... talk about LARPer's. Nobody in the history of people fighting has ever had his pec muscle ripped by a tiger claw.




i would use xing yi's drill fist to punch you in the throat followed by its crushing fist to your gut your done thats it fight over,.

More pretend kung fu B.S. Anyone who fights, whether on the ring or the street, knows how hard it is to do this on an aggressive opponent.

Again, we saw how well those crushing fists to the gut worked for that "main student".

[Black Jack II]

That's true. But you do need to know something about bagua to know if it's bagua that's being represented.

I can agree with this statement. That is fair.

So is or is this not Bagua being represented?

The point I make in asking this is simply because in tcma you see one person saying something is good and then the next going the other route and saying its bunk.


Or would they think you're making yourself look foolish by going around posting diatribes on topics you don't have any experience with?

First off, my post was not a diatribe, it was only a single sentance that gave a brief description of the link, with ZERO alignment to anything. So if that was in reference to me, then you should look up what a diatribe is.

Second, a person does NOT have to have specific experience within a certain style to feel what is being viewed is askew with functional problems, that is an invaild outlook, be this bagua, tai chi, boxing, or martian telepathic wrestling.

[Knifefighter]

But this idea of walking around your opponent isn't what circle walking is.

Really? The poster above you seemed to think it was. Maybe you kung fu guys should make up your minds, since you supposedly know more about the style than I do.

What do you think it is for?

[Black Jack II]

Maybe you kung fu guys should make up your minds, since you supposedly know more about the style than I do

Sorry to steal your line Knife,

But this is what I kinda mean, one side says something is what its for, another side says something different. A good example is the Wing Chun forum.

[Knifefighter]

good post. It's also like someone seeing a video of a BJJ tourney and armchairing about how anonymous man in Gi 1 could've kept his opponent from taking him down. I can hear it now
"I could've teeped to keep that takedown from happening"
"But you can't teep in BJJ tournaments"
"So what's your point?"

Someone with grappling experience, but no BJJ experience, could easily have valid viewpoints on how " anonymous man in Gi 1 could've kept his opponent from taking him down." Just as someone with full contact fighting experience would have valid opinions about that clip.

[Christopher M]

So is or is this not Bagua being represented?

I don't know what that guy's training background is. I know that I've never met a legitimate bagua instructor that tells their students to try to walk around people like that. (Although it's an enduring myth from people who don't train bagua.)


First off, my post was not a diatribe, it was only a single sentance that gave a brief description of the link, with ZERO alignment to anything. So if that was in reference to me...

It wasn't a reference to you. It was a general comment on how these sorts of discussions often go.


Second, a person does NOT have to have specific experience within a certain style to feel what is being viewed is askew with functional problems...

This is more-or-less right. But you have to have some pertinent experience. An obvious example would be to take someone with no experience in grappling and ask them what they think of a BJJ match. And you also have to know what you're looking at. If you don't understand what skipping is, you're going to see all sorts of functional problems with skipping that are only the product of your own misunderstanding.

[Christopher M]

Really? The poster above you seemed to think it was.

That's not the impression I got from his remark. Maybe he can clarify. Hey doug: Is knifefighter right, are you saying that the purpose of circlewalking in bagua is to train people to walk in a circle around someone like we see, for example, at the beginning of that video?

[Knifefighter]

I'll ask you again then?

What do you think the purpose is?

[The Willow Sword]

I don't owe a 16 year old, American hating twerp like you any explanation. Your a tiny zit on my a$$. I still remeber your unhinged post about hoping your own country fails over in Iraq and how you think our own soliders get everything they deserve.

So again, I don't owe you nada.

If you can't see an object lesson in that vid than its not my deal.



It just goes to show you all that blow job II is a douche nozzle that spouts more hate and diatribe than i EVER will here. If i am such a tiny zit on your a$$ then why even respond to me? As for my "unhinged post about the war in iraq" Dont rightly remember that post, its no secret that i am against the illegal war going on in iraq and it is ALSO not a secret that i and many of us "america haters":rolleyes:
think the president you voted for is a complete Idiot, as YOU are when it comes to posting vids to try and passively bash a cma style:rolleyes: You are as transparent as ever blow job II.

Sorry guys, this guy is a major tool bag,TWS.

[wiz cool c]

I've been learning Bagua and Shuai Jiao and I will say from my own experience that circle walking works in fighting. You need to be sparring regularly of course. Also you don't take a cool Bagua pose and start walking in a circle before you mix it up. These circles work when you least expect them and catch people off guard. They usally come in short quick circles,swiching up angles and dirrection.

I got some good sparring footage recently that had two bagua circle throws cought on tape. I will put it up in a day or two.

[The Willow Sword]

Id like to see those vids,so i anxiously await them.

I will comment on the vid and say that i pretty much feel as the others do here about how you do not start posing and doing the circle walking at the very beginning. You actually do not pose at all. This vid was and still is a bad example of bagua representation. The guy is a beginner it would seem,ALTHOUGH, he DID show some good rooting when the opponent tried to throw him(as sloppy as the attempt to throw him was).


I have always been taught that when you are using bagua,especially in conjunction with xingyi, that you engage and create a bridge between yourself and the opponent, it is not necessarily an evasion but it eventually turns into that.
The circle walking teaches how to get around the opponent when you are close in and have created the bridge,not when you are 3feet away. The rooting in bagua was always what i liked most about the system, being able to stay on your feet when grappled with or when a take down is attempted(doesnt always work,though)

Here is a vid to post what I FEEL is a good representation of Bagua in its FORM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr5vQm_i09I (ive posted this before in the internal section of the forums.

As for a vid to represent bagua in sparring? I havent seen a good one yet, Maybe wiz cool can provide that for us.

Peace,TWS

[doug maverick]

no thats not what i'm saying at akll. knife fighter is clearly a child who doesn't understnad anything and has probably never been in a real fight. i won't comment here on this thread because its loaded down with children sorry. go get your ass whupped a couple of times with what ever garbage u study and then come back to me. matter of fact come to my hood in the south bronx. with what ever garbage u study and watch your ass get beat. you know why i know my stuff npot bs cause i put mutha ****a's like u in the hospital with my bs.(talking about knifefighter) moron.

[Knifefighter]

you know why i know my stuff npot bs cause i put mutha ****a's like u in the hospital with my bs.(talking about knifefighter) moron.

Sure, doug, sure... I'll bet you do.

[Knifefighter]

Here is a vid to post what I FEEL is a good representation of Bagua in its FORM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr5vQm_i09I (ive posted this before in the internal section of the forums.

Complete B.S. as far as anything representative of fighting... do you guys really think people can do that crap that guy is doing in an actual fight?

[lkfmdc]

no thats not what i'm saying at akll. knife fighter is clearly a child who doesn't understnad anything and has probably never been in a real fight. i won't comment here on this thread because its loaded down with children sorry. go get your ass whupped a couple of times with what ever garbage u study and then come back to me. matter of fact come to my hood in the south bronx. with what ever garbage u study and watch your ass get beat. you know why i know my stuff npot bs cause i put mutha ****a's like u in the hospital with my bs.(talking about knifefighter) moron.

hysterical post, especially because he probably believes what he just wrote!

[The Willow Sword]

Knifefighter, if you bothered to read that what you quoted,you can READ and comprehend cant you? It says a representation of bagua in its FORM. I already stated that i havent yet seen a bagua vid that represents the fighting aspects.
Jesus christ another one:rolleyes: TWS

[Black Jack II]

It says a representation of bagua in its FORM.

You have no idea what you even mean. You captalize one part of your statement as if that elucidation actually stands for anything.

How does it represent bagua in its form???

[The Willow Sword]

oh blow job II excuse me i did not know that you dont have an understanding of what a "FORM" is. Let me explain it in another way so that you can grasp the idea.
"Its a Bagua KATA":rolleyes:


Peace,TWS

[SaintSage]

It just goes to show you all that blow job II is a douche nozzle that spouts more hate and diatribe than i EVER will here. .

Weren't you the one who posted, "Chirstianity, the Cult of Evil."? I would quote the hate and diatribe from it, but someone deleted the topic.

Look, I'm not taking sides. I'm just telling the pot that he's black too.

[The Willow Sword]

uhh i never started a thread titled "christianity, the cult of evil". i may have posted in a thread like that, but never started one like that. so your pot calling the kettle black doesnt work in this context.

just searched around and found a thread titled "christian martial arts union" where i posted my opinions on having religion pontifiacted here in the forums. but you know i dont want to get into some little debate over the semantics of who hates who here and why. Its OBVIOUS i dont like BJ II and it is obvious that he doesnt like me, for whatever reasons i cant think of why?;)

the point of this gabosh that i put on BJ's thread here is that it is useless to post in a kung fu forum if you dont like kungfu and you think it is BS(go to bullshido and rant over there and stroke each others internet c0cks and feel all superior)

Its really tiring to constantly read the same ole same ole here and i have been on this forum since 1995. its the same broken record over and over and OVER again.:rolleyes:

For once id like to see the forum reformat itself and gene dissolve most of these threads and we ALL clean the slate and start over and maybe THIS TIME some people will have something decent to say here other than flame(Yes and i flame as well,im not above anyone here). One thing that i am not going to allow is some neo-con nutjob who thinks he is all to the world passively try to trash a martial system that i and many others here feel is a good one and that i and others have practiced and studied for a good while now. Its no big suprise that blow job II has no respect for CMA or TCMA for that matter and any thread he starts is aimed at trashing and flaming TCMA. and YES there are TCMA players who flame and trash the MMA. I have always given out my opinion that the MMA events are a waste of ones time and energy mainly because i feel that you save that energy for when you really and truely need it. Sparring and training i certainly advocate and i respect the MMA players for their contribution to the realm of martial arts. But guys like blow job II and others here represent the negative and dumbfuk side of those MMA players who are not decent guys and who talk alot of cr@p, directly OR passively. There are some Decent MMA players out there and i respect what they do even if i dont agree with some of the events like UFC/pride.










Peace,TWS

[Black Jack II]

You bring up ****s and blowjobs a lot..........maybe you should move to fire island.

First off, I don't spread ANY hate, your just a worm who has some serious issues, you really need to see some help.

You are the one who stated he does not care if American soliders die over in Iraq and they deserve what they get. So in my book, your a complete and utter, nutter who not only says crap like that but believes in massive conspiracy garbage.

I am chalking it up to you being a latch-key kid.

But.......I will repeat the question again.


It says a representation of bagua in its FORM.

What does this mean???

[The Willow Sword]

You are the one who stated he does not care if American soliders die over in Iraq and they deserve what they get.

Please post the link of where i said these words verbatim on this forum site.

I dont think i have ever posted anything like this, in FACT, i have always been one who supported the troops but was against the illegal war they are having to wage for the Oil tycoons.

so please BJ II, Post the link of where i said these things.


Peace,TWS

[Knifefighter]

Knifefighter, if you bothered to read that what you quoted,you can READ and comprehend cant you? It says a representation of bagua in its FORM. I already stated that i havent yet seen a bagua vid that represents the fighting aspects.

OK... sorry, my bad. I thought you were insinuating that fighting would somehow look anything like that form. Guess I misunderstood your point.

What makes no sense to me is why practice and learn forms that have nothing to do with fighting. If you are going to do dance, why not sign up for a dance class? Dance classes also have the advantage of having more chicks to mack on.

[TenTigers]

the circle walking is a drill designed to train specific attributes, just as any other drill. The problem arises when,
one-you have a beginner trying to fight with his Bagua, and attempts to circle walk, and
two-when you have someone who is obviously outside the system, has no knowledge of their traiinng and fighting methods, and watches said beginner, and makes a judgement.
KF, you have been around the block a few times, and experienced multiple fighting systems, and acid-tested them. You, of all people should realize that the more you learn, the more you realize is out there that you do NOT know.
or are you simply flaming for sh1tz an giggles?-if that's the case, kudos! You're a pro. -which is far better than bein a profylactic!:D

[TenTigers]

look at the circle walk being a method similar to forward and reverse triangles,sidesteps, step-throughs,and circling right and left as a boxer would do. Then realize that it is a drill that creatively combines all these methods into one continuous drill.
THEN, add the striking methods, throws,and the skill of rooting while moving (actually a momentary pause, but seems to be moving) which enables the attacker to strike with power from what would appear to be awkward angles. These are simply a catalog of training drills, and principles rolled into a concise form. Nothing more, nothing less.
-well ,actually there is more. Many of the movements work to pump the lymphatic system and strengthen the immune system. How they managed to work that into the system boggles the mind.

[Knifefighter]

You, of all people should realize that the more you learn, the more you realize is out there that you do NOT know.

What I realize is that the more I learn, the more I realize that what works is pretty much the same. Also, the more I learn, the better I get at recognizing all the bullsh!t that is out there.

BTW, I know when "circle walking" works and when it doesn't. I've both done it and seen it done in full contact settings, which is far more than most of the "circle walking masters" have done... most of them are clueless about it.

[TenTigers]

bagua is a series of techniques and concepts-circle walking,eight mother palms and constant change, that Dong Hai-Chuan taught different people, all highly skilled in their own right. These people then combined their arts with these concepts to create the different families of Bagua. Theoretically, using this method, one should be able to create Hung-Ga Bagua, Wing Chun Bagua, Shuai-Jiao Bagua,Western Boxing Bagua,Arnis Bagua, etc.
Ever notice how Bruce Lee started a whole slew of people stripping away the extraneous and getting down to brass tacks withn their own systems? Many decided to call it a new name-Mu-Tau, Chu Fen Do, etc, while others imply refined their technique with this in mind. Nothing new. Just new to some people.

[TenTigers]

"BTW, I know when "circle walking" works and when it doesn't. I've both done it and seen it done in full contact settings, which is far more than most of the "circle walking masters" have done... most of them are clueless about it."
ah-HA! thought so! ya bastid! ok. I'm your newest fan! When do I get my t-shirt?:D
(TT does the "I told ya so dance...")

[Knifefighter]

look at the circle walk being a method similar to forward and reverse triangles,sidesteps, step-throughs,and circling right and left as a boxer would do. Then realize that it is a drill that creatively combines all these methods into one continuous drill.

Except that boxers, (as well as all other unarmed combat athletes) will not be cross stepping. Everyone in boxing, MMA, wrestling, judo, Sambo, and BJJ knows why you don't want to be doing your movements with cross over steps.



THEN, add the striking methods, throws,and the skill of rooting while moving (actually a momentary pause, but seems to be moving) which enables the attacker to strike with power from what would appear to be awkward angles.

Lack of power and base is exactly the problem with "circle walking" as the TMA people do it.


These are simply a catalog of training drills, and principles rolled into a concise form. Nothing more, nothing less.

In a very inefficient and ineffective manner.



-well ,actually there is more. Many of the movements work to pump the lymphatic system and strengthen the immune system. How they managed to work that into the system boggles the mind.

Any type of exercise/movement program does this... lymphatic fluid is pumped by muscular contractions.

[TenTigers]

in most cases (from my limited experience) the cross stepping is a sweep.

If you look at (most) Bagua forms, although I only learned the Chiang Jung-Chao "original form" the practitioner walks the circle between sections, so the strikes are actually pretty rooted. Many Bagua sequences can be taught in linear fashion, and more than one system of Bagua teaches this method before adding the circle walk.

In most cases, you can simply do the techniques as drills without memorizing forms. Forms for the most part were for lineage holders so the art could be passed down intact. Many teachers were illiterate, or simply the fact that books can be lost. Do you have notebooks you keep for remembering specific drills, such as FMA, or boxing, or BJJ? I do. I constantly refer to my notes. Even though I could simply create drills, I like to have a notebook. Forms work in the same way.
Look, we all know there are people who buy the dream of the student learning the secret form and lo and behold, he is transformed into a Kung-Fu fighter. That is tghe fault of movies and stupid teachers passing on that myth. But, most intelligent TCMAists don't really think that way.(I hope)
case in point- I know of a SPM practitioner who was never taught the coveted 108 form, yet knows the techniques taught within. He simply was taught that way. He has the skills, but doesn't know the form. No biggie. The Tiet Sien Kuen was a series of exercises, before Wong Fei-Hung put them in a form.
It's all the same sh1t.

as far as the lymphatic pumps are concerned-certain "squeezing" movements directly have this effect, apart from simply moving, and were taught specifically for this purpose. Sure, you could find it elsewhere, but they were intentially taught.

[Knifefighter]

in most cases (from my limited experience) the cross stepping is a sweep..

If that is a sweep, it has to be the most inefficient way I have ever seen of doing so.

.
If you look at (most) Bagua forms, although I only learned the Chiang Jung-Chao "original form" the practitioner walks the circle between sections, so the strikes are actually pretty rooted. Many Bagua sequences can be taught in linear fashion, and more than one system of Bagua teaches this method before adding the circle walk..

However it is taught, it is not useful for fighting against a skilled, resisting opponent... which is exactly why people who are trained in this are forced to "revert to kickboxing" upon discovering this harsh fact when faced with a live, resisting opponent.


In most cases, you can simply do the techniques as drills without memorizing forms.

Whether you do them as drills or forms, they don't work... which is exactly why you don't see them working in full contact settings.

[The Willow Sword]

now WHERE is Black Taoist when we need him most? i think he is fairly qualified to explain some of the more combat apps of bagua.

peace,TWS



oh and knifefighter,TCMA forms contain the fighting techniques within the set of movements. To Understand the form you must also understand WHY the form is done in the first place. there are some esoteric methods and philosophies that do not jive with western train of thought and it makes it confusing for those who are strictly into the sport fighting arena who all THEY do is train for the ring and the competition. More later....its late, i need to get to sleep.

Peace,TWS

[Knifefighter]

oh and knifefighter,TCMA forms contain the fighting techniques within the set of movements. To Understand the form you must also understand WHY the form is done in the first place. there are some esoteric methods and philosophies that do not jive with western train of thought and it makes it confusing for those who are strictly into the sport fighting arena who all THEY do is train for the ring and the competition.

LOL @ being so clueless that you think training for sport means that it doesn't work on the street. Tell that to the guy in Orange County who was choked to death by the MMA fighter and stuffed into his trunk... or the guy who tried to rob the old judo guy in South America and died before he could be taken to the hospital... or the two guys with guns who broke into the wrestler's house in Inglewood and were shot and killed with their own guns.

The fact is that sports techniques have the most probablity of working on the street, while your stylized dying bug dances have the most probability of getting you sent to the hospital.

Who do you think is the most likely to land killing blows, the person who uses these blows regularly at full force against resisiting opponents or the guy who pretends to use his "lethal" techniques, either pulling his strikes or dancing around doing them in the air?

Also, LOL @ thinking people who train for sports competitions only train for sports. I could show you a whole host of sports guys who have taken the same sports approach and use the same stuff with knives (keep an eye out for guys with messed up ears who have a clip-on on their pocket).

[David Jamieson]

I honestly dont know which thread to look into to discuss kungfu anymore, there's too many jockstraps crowding the plate in this fiorum.

I mean geez, we even give em an mma forum so they gtfo and still they insist on hanging about.

we can only surmise, that internet keyboard warriors that hate traditional martial arts are suffering from autisim and are probably dealing with abandonment issues.

other than that, that clip is old, and clip posting the minutia of what is in teh world doesn't represent everything there is.

besides, I would say that 90% of all televised mma fights are boring sweat struggles on teh canvas populated with sloppy hitting, not much kicking ability and the style of fighting is that wihch any farmer can pull off with a few hours training.

discuss...yes, the neanderthal misanthropic dullard in the front row, you have a comment? :p

[Black Jack II]

Clueless is an understatement for Willowsword.

Your still not going to answer my question are you???

As for digging through your mess of threads, as I told you once before I am not going to bother, your a zit and zits don't get that much attention.


besides, I would say that 90% of all televised mma fights are boring sweat struggles on teh canvas populated with sloppy hitting, not much kicking ability and the style of fighting is that wihch any farmer can pull off with a few hours training.

Maybe you and Willowsword should date. You could make a whole host of zany, conspiracy loving, drolling, retarded children. LOL....I wonder who would be the b!tch. You guy's could complain about big corporations and illegal wars over the dinner table and than go into the back yard to practice a southern black tiger form accompained by a good bottle of merlot.

[The Willow Sword]

Clueless is an understatement for Willowsword.

Your still not going to answer my question are you???

As for digging through your mess of threads, as I told you once before I am not going to bother, your a zit and zits don't get that much attention.



i answered your question blowjob II you just lack the real intelligence to comprehend it. you know blow job II i dug through all the threads to see where i said those things about the troops that you are accusing me of, so that you can justify your lame brained neo con superiority over me. yet i did not find anything that remotely resembles me saying those things. to which i KNOW i did not.

You are a real peice of work blow job II, an A-class numero uno douche nozzle and i cant, for the life of me understand why someone like yourself is even here on these forum boards. I wonder what Mommy and daddy really think about their boy these days? are you the pride of your little town or community? are you such a great morally riteous citizen where you reside? or are you just another peice of uneducated robotic brainwashed white trash that has no buisness breeding much less doing anything else. ill bet daddy beat the living cr@p out of you and momma tricked herself something great for all the boys at the truck stop and YOU just became the spitoon for all their abuse and low life behavior. the rotten apples dont fall far from the tree do they blow job II?
Oh would all this that i am writing be further from the truth about your worthless existence? oh well just like your accusations of me being an america hater,which would get your ass put in the hospital where you to stand in front of me and say that to my face, and trust me blow job II. My Love for my country goes way beyond your neo con BS.
But you know blow job II i digress, you are probably a real decent guy who loves his wife and kids and really gives back to your community and really helps,and if that be true then all your ranting and horsesh!t on these forums is some schitzoid mentally incompetent dribble that YOU need to get help with and possibly get on the xanax. Because quite frankly i am confused as to what to believe about you. :D
sorry guys again for my rant with BJ II, he is about as useless as the t!ts on a boar hog, TWS

[Black Jack II]

i answered your question blowjob II you just lack the real intelligence to comprehend it

No you did not. You did not answer anything because you really know you don't know anything.


My Love for my country goes way beyond your neo con BS.

I highly doubt it.

As for the blowjob part, like I told you once kid, your not getting one here so you might as well take your closet issues and head over to San Fran where your luck might be a bit better.

You would feel right at home there, *****ing about Uncle Tom Condi and how bad America is.......:rolleyes:

[John Takeshi]

You are the one who stated he does not care if American soliders die over in Iraq and they deserve what they get.

Please post the link of where i said these words verbatim on this forum site.

I dont think i have ever posted anything like this, in FACT, i have always been one who supported the troops but was against the illegal war they are having to wage for the Oil tycoons.

so please BJ II, Post the link of where i said these things.


Peace,TWS

I had one of the mods, who are my very good friends, dig up the old thread for me and PM me the quotation. Here it goes, direct quotaton:




I really, and I mean, really, do not give a flying hullabaloo if any American soldiers die in this ridiculous war we're fighting, which is only lining President Bush's pockets with more money as we speak. As far as I'm concerned, I think they all ought to die horrible, painful deaths, and be excommunicated from the Holy Church of God Almighty, as well as kicked out of the country. They're spitting on the American flag, and that means we have to wash it clean. I recommend using the blood of the soldiers in Iraq, such as that's about all they're good for. That's all I have to say about the money-grubbing, bullett-mongering Oil tycoon pawns, AKA US Military. I think this just about sums up what a jaded American I am.

Peace, TWS

I'm not taking sides, but that does seem a little harsh, doesn't it?

PS, I edited out the parts about blowjobs and *****es, such as they were in poor taste, and a little pornographic.

[Black Jack II]

John you sauve son of a gun. You just made a new friend on this forum.:D

I was going to let him just sit in the thought of bringing that post out but now he can see himself for what he is.

[SevenStar]

LOL @ being so clueless that you think training for sport means that it doesn't work on the street. Tell that to the guy in Orange County who was choked to death by the MMA fighter and stuffed into his trunk... or the guy who tried to rob the old judo guy in South America and died before he could be taken to the hospital... or the two guys with guns who broke into the wrestler's house in Inglewood and were shot and killed with their own guns.

or the MT guy who chased multiple armed attackers from his home, sending two to the hospital.


The fact is that sports techniques have the most probablity of working on the street, while your stylized dying bug dances have the most probability of getting you sent to the hospital.


I won't take sides on that one, but coincidentally, where I work, the wrestlers are great at tying people up and getting them out of the club. The two bouncers we had that got their arses handed to them and ended up quitting were a tkd guy and a taiji/kenpo guy... At another club I work, ALL of the bouncers train MT and bjj, except two, one who trains nothing and another who does capoeira.

[David Jamieson]

I worked door at a couple of places and a few of the crew were into martial arts. Everyone banged and we were all into traditional martial arts.

so, again, this only makes knifes uterrances ignorant and insecure remarks because of his own lacking. I honestl don't have any idea why him and his ilk hang around on a kungfu board instead of joining the ranks of the armchair hooters crowd over somewhere else on the net.

seriously, you guys got nothing for us and everything against us kungfu guys. why not just get lost and go somewhere else where you might be welcome, unless you're those kinky weirdo fetish dudes who like to be verbally abused in teh written form on the internet in which case, I feel dirty because you're yanking it right now! :p

freaks.

[1bad65]

Except that boxers, (as well as all other unarmed combat athletes) will not be cross stepping. Everyone in boxing, MMA, wrestling, judo, Sambo, and BJJ knows why you don't want to be doing your movements with cross over steps.

I've never studied any CMA, I admit that, but he is right here. The FIRST thing I learned about footwork was to NEVER cross your feet. If you are even just shoved you will likely fall, as you have no balance with your feet crossed. If the other guy shoots or comes in punching, you are in BIG trouble if your feet are crossed.

I'll see if I can get him to upload it to Youtube, but a guy at my gym executed a PERFECT Judo hip throw at a BJJ tourny on a guy who had a habit of crossing his feet.

[Rockwood]

Hi all,

I know at least two guys who have full contact experience and have a lot of great ideas on how circle walking is put to use in sparring. By the way, I've never seen either of them cross their feet in fighting practice. As a matter of fact they are adamant that this is a very bad thing to do in a fight. So don't do it.

Tim Cartmell:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuP6cApKAD8

His teacher Luo De Xiu:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWvya9MVhjs

If you really want to get an idea of how circle walking can be quite useful for martial arts training, I suggest you go talk to these guys about it.

-Jess O