strengthen and tighten tendons

[TenTigers]

dislocated two fingers last night. Reset,massaged,plastered and splinted, but the tendons on the underside of fingers-that keep them from hyperextending and dislocating are "stretched."
anyone have any good formulas for returning them to normal-tightening, strengthening? I have a tiet sao jow that strengthens bone and tendon, but wondering if anyone has had experience with this.

[Black Jack II]

I feel jealous.

Yesterday morning I broke my number 5 metacarpal doing my morning jog. Going in for my weight bearing cast on Monday. I wish there was a good formula to speed this ***** of a blunder up.;)

[herb ox]

If you're already using a strengthen bone/tendon formula externally, you may wish to add an internal formula such as Jin Suo Guo Jing Wan (Great Mender) to promote healing from within. However, the tightening of the tendons will come with time and gentle rehabilitative exercise, so be patient and take it slow - things should snug up in a few weeks...

take care

herb ox

[NJM]

dislocated two fingers last night. Reset,massaged,plastered and splinted, but the tendons on the underside of fingers-that keep them from hyperextending and dislocating are "stretched."
anyone have any good formulas for returning them to normal-tightening, strengthening? I have a tiet sao jow that strengthens bone and tendon, but wondering if anyone has had experience with this.

I'd hate to get all new-agey on you, but you could try applying hydrothereputic treatments. Extremely hot to extremely cold water, multiple exchanges.

[TenTigers]

from what I've been taught in TCM trauma healing, cold, ice, etc causes stasis and calcification in the joint. May reduce swelling and pain, but that is short term, and problems will arise later. I am looking for healing, rather than simply pain management.

[NJM]

If you're already using a strengthen bone/tendon formula externally, you may wish to add an internal formula such as Jin Suo Guo Jing Wan (Great Mender) to promote healing from within. However, the tightening of the tendons will come with time and gentle rehabilitative exercise, so be patient and take it slow - things should snug up in a few weeks...

take care

herb ox


Epollyphaga sinensis = wingless co-ckroach

in Great Mender

want/do not want?

[PlumDragon]

Epollyphaga sinensis = wingless co-ckroach
in Great Mender
want/do not want?
Thats the strongest ingredient in the recipe for connecting tendon, bone, mending fractures.

TenTigers, if you decide to go with Great Mender, I have it on sale right now for $8.75.

[Black Jack II]

Plum,

I just broke my left foot, 5th metatarsal. I am going in for a weight bearing cast on Monday, which means I have had to cancel a number of business trips.

I would not mind looking into the jow, can you give me a scientific background on why it would help mend the fracture, even though by Monday all of this may be null and void if he puts me in that cast.

[PlumDragon]

Black Jack,

Sorry to hear about your injury, hopefully it will not harangue you any longer than necessary!

While there are very few studies published on "dit da jow", there are countless herbal clinical studies, research, and lab tests performed on the ingredients used in solution, powder, etc, and many recognized chemicals in the herbs that have effects anywhere from barely noticeable to quite powerful and each acts in its own way on the body--All are important in the right situation.

While the scientific details herbs to mend fractures, etc have to do mostly with activating osteoblasts/clasts, increasing blood supply to the area, providing a useable source of calcium, calcium carbonate/phosphate, amino acids, etc etc for bone absorption, and other well-known phenomena, there are a great many processes at work which create an overall effect that is certainly effective.

Theres more but thats a good start. The studies are out there in mass quantities on most herbs and its very inexpensive to try out, especialy considering the potential training tool you could start using.

You are welcome to contact me at pd@plumdragon.org and Id be happy to type a list up of studies for you that relate to a number of items that have been shown in studies to help with the healing and strengthening of tendon and bone.

[Black Jack II]

Yeah,

This injury really sucks, I would rather take a broken hand over a broken foot anyday of the week.

But again, when I go in that weight bearing cast tommorrow I doubt I will be able to use the jow anyway, unless it is a removable cast.

I shall see what he has to say tommorrow and then get back.

[NJM]

Black Jack,

Sorry to hear about your injury, hopefully it will not harangue you any longer than necessary!

While there are very few studies published on "dit da jow", there are countless herbal clinical studies, research, and lab tests performed on the ingredients used in solution, powder, etc, and many recognized chemicals in the herbs that have effects anywhere from barely noticeable to quite powerful and each acts in its own way on the body--All are important in the right situation.

While the scientific details herbs to mend fractures, etc have to do mostly with activating osteoblasts/clasts, increasing blood supply to the area, providing a useable source of calcium, calcium carbonate/phosphate, amino acids, etc etc for bone absorption, and other well-known phenomena, there are a great many processes at work which create an overall effect that is certainly effective.

Theres more but thats a good start. The studies are out there in mass quantities on most herbs and its very inexpensive to try out, especialy considering the potential training tool you could start using.

You are welcome to contact me at pd@plumdragon.org and Id be happy to type a list up of studies for you that relate to a number of items that have been shown in studies to help with the healing and strengthening of tendon and bone.

In that case, I will be ordering some of the Great Mender for a realative. I assume that you want me to order from the Plum Dragon site? :P

BTW, what part of the co-ckroach is used?

[PlumDragon]

In that case, I will be ordering some of the Great Mender for a realative. I assume that you want me to order from the Plum Dragon site? :PYea, you can order directly off the website, the discount will show up in the product description.


BTW, what part of the co-ckroach is used?The entire creature.

[RonH]

I'd also suggest keeping the fingers curled up for extended periods of time, but not loosely. There needs to be tension in the muscles. When doing weight training improperly (not stretching, amongst other things) the tendons will tighen up and you'll get the 'can't wipe my own butt' syndrome. It's the same with the fingers. Keep them curled for long lengths of time and they'll tighten up.

[cjurakpt]

I'd also suggest keeping the fingers curled up for etc. etc. etc.
I'd suggest sticking to your area of relative "expertise"; although I'm sure that you've had someone do this and that it worked for them, right?

Rick - if you really think that you've dislocated something and are having instability at the joint(s), go get some films taken to make sure you didn't tear any ligaments, since these are what really keep the joint from hyperextending, not really the tendons - they are non-contractile and only sightly elastic (so they don't really stretch) and so really are not the main thing involved in joint protection per se; and preferably get it looked at by an ortho specializing in hands; or, find an OT or PT who is a certified hand therapist (CHT), they should be able to get you back on track if it doesn't resolve on its own in about 3 to 7 days (depends on the severity of the trauma); or why not go see Dr. Bisio? nothing like having your teacher treat you directly - it's like getting a "free" lesson at the same time!

[cjurakpt]

While the scientific details herbs to mend fractures, etc have to do mostly with activating osteoblasts/clasts, increasing blood supply to the area, providing a useable source of calcium, calcium carbonate/phosphate, amino acids, etc etc for bone absorption, and other well-known phenomena, there are a great many processes at work which create an overall effect that is certainly effective.
sounds interresting - reminds me of some studies I've seen showing 1) TCM herbal use directly on open fractures to increase healing rate and 2) use of flexible splints for early mobilization of fracture sites also to reduce healing time

where might some of the studies you mention be found? any of them available via Medline?

[lhommedieu]

dislocated two fingers last night. Reset,massaged,plastered and splinted, but the tendons on the underside of fingers-that keep them from hyperextending and dislocating are "stretched."
anyone have any good formulas for returning them to normal-tightening, strengthening? I have a tiet sao jow that strengthens bone and tendon, but wondering if anyone has had experience with this.

Rick,

Drop me a line at 261-1627. You will probably want to deal with the swelling first before moving on to tightening the tendons. The logic here is that if the joints are slightly out of allignment tightening the tendons prematurely will complicate things. Treatment for dislocations is generally done in stages; a rough outline is presented below:

First Stage:

1. (As soon as possible) Die Da Wan (I have some hit-pills you may find useful as they have some guiding herbs for the fingers)
2. A few days later: Qi Li San (Resinol K from Health Concerns is especially good for breaks and dislocations to the fingers and toes, and is a good substitute for Qi Li San)
3. An herbal soak for reducing inflamation and swelling.
4. Acupuncture and Tui Na.

Second Stage (usually in about a week or so, depending on the level of inflamation and swelling):

1. An herbal soak to keep addressing the swelling and pain - but it also starts to strengthen the tendons. At this point you can re-allign the joints, if necessary.
2. (Once the joints are alligned correctly) "Bone-Sinew" Gao from Kamwo Herbs (Zheng Gu product line.)
3. Bone-Knitting pills (early stage).
4. Acupuncture and Tui Na.

Third Stage (generally in about three weeks and continuing for about three-four weeks).

1. Bone-Knitting pills (late stage).
2. Herbal soak (if necessary).
3. Moxabustion (sometimes with UI oil or tendon lotion).
4. Qi Gong for fingers
5. Acupuncture and Tui Na.

Fourth Stage:

1. Internal Herbs to strengthen Liver and/or Kidney, if necessary.

Hope this helps.

Best,

Steve

[cjurakpt]

nice, comprehensive protocol Steve - is this of your own devising or from somewhere else?

BTW, we are practically neighbors - I live in Brightwaters; do you practice locally?

[RonH]

[QUOTE=cjurakpt;786452]I'd suggest sticking to your area of relative "expertise"; although I'm sure that you've had someone do this and that it worked for them, right?[QUOTE]

My expertise is quite far reaching. Have you ever noticed that the reason why many feel the need to crack their knuckles can be gotten rid of if they relax their hands? One of the causes of the desire to crack knuckles is excessive tension tightening up the soft tissue, which makes the bones less easy to move, amongst other things. Cracking any knuckle/joint grinds down a little on the bones' surface a tiny bit at a time, like grinding teeth.

[lhommedieu]

nice, comprehensive protocol Steve - is this of your own devising or from somewhere else?

Not mine - I'm a long term student of Tom Bisio's and, more recently, of Frank Butler's. Any small advance that I've made in the area of Chinese medicine is due to their pointing the way.


BTW, we are practically neighbors - I live in Brightwaters; do you practice locally?

Yes, I have an office in East Northport.

Best,

Steve

[mickey]

TenTigers,

Have you ever tried beef(cow) tendon? They have it at the Wonton Garden on Mott. It may help facillitate the process of healing.

WARNING: It takes some getting used to: it is slimey stuff and not at all tasty.


mickey

[TenTigers]

Ngau-Gun! I love it. Just had some yesterday with my Sifu and his family!
This goes by the law of similars-to nourish the tendons, eat tendon.

(-although I've been eating calve's brains for years, and I'm still stupid.):p

maybe I'll start eating honor student's brains-served with fava beans and a nice Chianti.

[lhommedieu]

TenTigers,

Have you ever tried beef(cow) tendon? They have it at the Wonton Garden on Mott. It may help facillitate the process of healing.

WARNING: It takes some getting used to: it is slimey stuff and not at all tasty.


mickey

That's correct - I'd fogotten about beef tendon. If you're a fan of Vietnamese Pho (soup) the Tai Gan Pho gives you a lot of beef tendon and I've always thought it was delicioius. It's been a while since I've been in the city but I think that there are still some Pho restaurants on near Center street.

If you're eating Chinese food then sea cucumber is also supposed to facilitate tendon healing.

There are also some dietary prohibitions related to tendon healing, chief among which are shell fish and very cold drinks. I'd also cut down on sour foods while you injury is still in the acute phase.

Best,

Steve