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View Full Version : Savate as part of a JKD Matrix



Daedalus
06-07-2001, 05:57 PM
Since I first began studying JKD, I often heard many people make reference to some of the techniques that Bruce Lee adapted from savate. Techniques like the oblique kick.

I have never had any direct contact with anyone who trained in savate, so I don't know if there are other techniques that may be valuable to me.

Have any of you guys ever trained in savate?

rogue
06-07-2001, 06:55 PM
It's like TKD but with snails.

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

DragonzRage
06-07-2001, 09:16 PM
I did one savate class with Prof. Salem Assli just to get a taste of it and how it differs from Muay thai a little while back. Obviously, I'm no expert at it, but from what I gathered its strong suit seems to be very quick and agile footwork. It goes hand in hand with Jun Fan Gung fu legwork. One interesting aspect of it is that many techniques are meant to be used most effectively with shoes on.

nightair
06-08-2001, 02:00 AM
i've seen someone doing that before. i've also seen a tournament on tape.It looks like kickboxing to me. :)

Grappling-Insanity
06-10-2001, 01:15 AM
look below

Grappling-Insanity
06-10-2001, 01:18 AM
I dont have any direct relation with either arts however. I have been kicked by ppl with from both arts and the Savate ppl had way more power. They train with shoes on and have a adapted to kicking with there boot/shoe toe.

Savate is way more than u think. There is another art called Boxe Francis which has a relationship similiar to savate like that of many Philipino arts.

Boxe Francis is like French street fighting full out with joint locks and eye gouging. Savate is more the sport/kickboxing element to Boxe Francis.

What is really cool about this is that there are books from the 1400's which show Europeons doing joint locks, take downs, and ground grappling. It really shows that the West has its own fair share of MA's.

Sorry for any mistakes in this post I only have a very basic understanding for Boxe Francis/Savate.

rogue
06-10-2001, 03:49 AM
In the words of Al Bundy, It's wrong to be French.

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

4 Ranges
06-10-2001, 05:30 PM
Savate is a really cool art, and there is really much more to it than just kicking and punching.

Savate is really the over-all term for the fighting arts of france. Just like in Kali/Eskrima, where arts like panantukan, pananjakman, and dumog come under the kali/eskrima flag, boxe-francaise, la canne, and lutte parisienne come under the savate flag.

What we call savate is actually "boxe-francaise." It's the kickboxing aspect of the art, but nothing like kickboxing or TKD. I'll get more into that later. But, basically, it's the "sport" aspect of the art. Just like in bjj, where there is sport-jujitsu (no striking), and there is vale tudo (pretty much nhb).

Then there is lutte parisienne, which is the more free-fighting form of the art. Very street-oriented, with lots of throws, kicks from the ground, hair-pulling, eye-gouging, etc. REALLY nasty stuff, from what I've experienced.

Then there is la canne, which is the cane-fighting system of france. The movements are based primarily on sabre movements. I have very little experience with this art, and what I have experienced from it is mostly sport-oriented.

The mechanics of a savate kick is really different from tkd or kickboxing kicks. The mechanics are almost identical to muay thai's, but with this distinct difference: instead of kicking with the shin, they kick with the tip of their shoe.

So, imagine a thai kick with pin-point precision. That's a savate kick. Not flashing looking, and really not powerful looking. But when it hits you, you feel like throwing up an organ.

Best thing you can do is experience the art for yourself. Spar with a savateur. You'll get a better appreciation of the art that way.

As for how it fits into JKD...they work with the same concepts and principles. But I don't have time to really map that all out. :D

Good luck, and hope this helps.

Never confuse sparring with fighting. One is an exchange of skill; the other an exchange of blood.

4 Ranges
06-10-2001, 09:25 PM
don't judge the art by how it looks! Doing that with savate (or any art, for that matter) will only rob you of the opportunity of really learning from it.

I too looked at those fighters, watching their savate matches, and thought "uhh...what ****s..." I'll admit, those spandex outfits (called "tenues") are soooo 70's.

But when I sparred with my instructor, and another competitive savateur...OMG. the power is really amazing. what makes it worse is the movement. they're hitting you, and by the time they're done, they're 10 miles away, bouncing around like it's easter or something.

hope this helps, and good luck!

Never confuse sparring with fighting. One is an exchange of skill; the other an exchange of blood.

VingTsun81
06-11-2001, 07:10 PM
Everyone always seems to be trying to make Jeet Kune Do a lot more difficult than it really is. Bruce Lee took different "techniques" and moves from other arts put them together so that they would fit him. JKD is Bruce Lee's fighting system. he took whatever he thought was effective from other arts and formed it together.. I mean its almost impossible to know what arts he took from and which ones he didnt. If i had to find out though i think i would have to ask Mr. Danny Inosanto, who by the way is the only person ever certified by Bruce Lee to teach JKD.
Ryan

Daedalus
06-11-2001, 10:41 PM
Ted Wong recieved a certificate to teach as well.

Other than that I agree with you.

The concept that is now called Jeet Kune Do is nothing new. Lee just gave it a name. Lee's art was Jun Fan Gung Fu(literal translation: Bruce Lee's accumulated skill). Lee used the jkd concept(not to be confused with JKD Concepts)to form his personnal fighting style, he did not invent the concept.

This is just my opinion, but I feel that people who copy what Bruce Lee did and say that they are doing jkd are missing the point and are actually ****her from understanding what jkd is.

In my eyes for someone to be certified to teach jkd is a joke. It's like saying that you have to be certified to breathe. It's all about marketability and who reaps the benefits of Lee's legacy.

VingTsun81
06-14-2001, 04:06 AM
daedalus im not going to say that im 100% sure that Innosanto was the only one but i do know that i have a documentery on Bruce Lee and it has some really old and kinda rare footage on it.....but anyway on that video it says that Danny Innosanto is the only one certified by Lee to teach JKD. but there were two other men certified to teach Lee Jun Fan Gung Fu, by Bruce.....

I also wanted to tell you that i completely agree with you on the thing you said about if they copy bruce than they are just getting further away,,,etc.... I deffinatly agree with that. JKD is Bruce Lee's expression of fighting it is his "way" of fighting. and i use that term losely

-Ryan

rogue
06-14-2001, 04:08 PM
Daedalus, that's what I believe too, but what about the people who believe they're learning something called JKD? Over time JKD will continue to become a style all it's own, it mostly is anyway.

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

Daedalus
06-17-2001, 11:29 PM
Ryan,

You are right, my bad. Ted Wong is certified in Jun Fan Gung Fu; not JKD.

rogue,

Yes, the JKD business is in full swing. I have to hand it to the countless numbers of "martial artists" who have made money off of Lee's name and fame. They really know how to work it. I'm almost sorry that I didn't think of it first.

Ooops, that's right, I was only 3 when he died. There's no way I could have trained with him. Oh,..but wait a minute. I seem to remember,...yes its all coming back to me now! Bruce Lee came to my house and trained me in my crib. And as I grew into a toddler, Brandan and I played and trained together, and just mere days prior to his death, he issued me a certificate to teach JKD. (Hahaha) It might as well work for me,..its worked for many others claiming ti teach JKD.

I think you're right though, there are many people teaching what they call JKD and many people training under them. Its unfortunate that there are so many vultures out there.

Lee himself said that he wished he had not given it a name by which people could decieve others wishing to follow in his footsteps.

gorilla-sweat
06-23-2001, 03:50 AM
savate is basically like boxing with your feet. you should see the crap they pull off just like it is nothing. it is unbelieveable half the time