Drawings from an old text

[Leto]

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x145/Taiji_changes/quan1.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x145/Taiji_changes/quan2.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x145/Taiji_changes/quan3.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x145/Taiji_changes/quan4.jpg

These may not be the original drawings from this text, but it was something that was hand copied and passed down between teachers and students.
I wonder if the postures pictured are actually a sequence that comprises a form, or if they are just stand alone individual postures.
Does anyone recognize these postures together as a form, shaolin or otherwise? If it seems like these postures go together, where do they start and end? read right to left or left to right, up and down or down to up? Like it says at the beginning, they don't come with any explanation, so their purpose would only have been known to the teachers passing it down.

The order of the pages are the order in which they appear in the book, who knows whether this is the right order or not, or if there is an order.


This is from a translation of a book they call "Bubishi" in Okinawa, which was brought there from China by one or more karate men who studied there in the
19th century (and possibly early 20th).

On the off chance this is a form someone recognizes, what is it called and what style is it from?

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I think it is a form. I can make coherent transitions between the postures just by reading them. My guess is these are the postures, but the text is missing the motions in between them. If you have experience with Shaolin forms, you can probably rough this set out, and resurrect a functional form from them.

It seems to have a lot of back and forth changes as seen in the later part of Shaolin Xiao Hong Quan, so it might be related to the Shaolin Hong Quan system some how.

We have to wait a few days till Sal gets back from his Tour, he would probably know what this is on site.

[John Takeshi]

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x145/Taiji_changes/quan1.jpg

It's obvioiusly some kind of tai chi, if you didn't notice from the web address. I saw the fist pound from Chen, the ubiquitous playing the guitar, and a ward off and a push.

You may thank me later in a PM, child.

[John Takeshi]

Strangely, though, I don't recognize the "Ole!" posture in the bottom right hand corner of the 3rd document. This may be Chinese salsa, or ballet, rather than tai chi.

[Pk_StyLeZ]

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x145/Taiji_changes/quan1.jpg

this one look somewhat like shaolin shao hong quan

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x145/Taiji_changes/quan2.jpg

this one look somewhat like shaolin tong bei quan

[Firehawk4]

These postures come from Patrick McCarthy s Bubishi book the Bible of Karate i am looking at the same postures in the book right know .

[Leto]

Yes, I said it is from the Bubishi. I wondered if anyone could identify the "unidentified gong fu quan" that it is depicting.

[John Takeshi]

Those are good drawings, though. You should consider doing art for publishers, Leto. I've been working on doing step by step manuals for the Kata Dante and the Big 6-Fist. I'll give you $0.50 per figure, if you mock them up for me.

[David Jamieson]

Those drawings are juvenile at best. that's the art critic in me.

as an aside, they are not tai chi and probably copied from the wall paintings at shaolin, which were pretty faded until redone and added to recently along with the statues of various postures etc etc.

[Leto]

These are drawings made by martial artists, not professional painters, hand copied from someplace else. I couldn't do any better myself, if I tried to draw something like that. Of course it's not tai chi (that's just the name on my photobucket account). The notes say it is from "monk fist", which could mean any shaolin style. The question is whether this is depicting an actual form, in sequence, and if so is it a form anyone recognizes.
So there is one vote for "not a form", one vote for "maybe a couple forms", and one vote for "probably a form".
I know there are some folks who have done a lot of research into all the various versions of old shaolin styles and thought if anyone would know, it would be one of them.

[Royal Dragon]

Sal can probably tell you exactly what they are, and which era they come from. Wait till he gets back from his tour.

[Sal Canzonieri]

I think it is a form. I can make coherent transitions between the postures just by reading them. My guess is these are the postures, but the text is missing the motions in between them. If you have experience with Shaolin forms, you can probably rough this set out, and resurrect a functional form from them.

It seems to have a lot of back and forth changes as seen in the later part of Shaolin Xiao Hong Quan, so it might be related to the Shaolin Hong Quan system some how.

We have to wait a few days till Sal gets back from his Tour, he would probably know what this is on site.

There are hundreds of copies of this available all over any chinatown book store.
It's some southern shaolin type five animals stuff, no big deal.

[Leto]

There are hundreds of copies of this available all over any chinatown book store.
It's some southern shaolin type five animals stuff, no big deal.

No idea what southern shaolin style it might be from, or what it was called?
Think someone in the southern forum would have an idea?
If it's all over every chinatown bookstore, someone must know what it's called, right?

[Chosen-frozen]

Most Japanese stylists who`ve done indepth research on the Bubishi say that the Chinese influences it presents come from Fukien White Crane. Fukien is the closest Chinese province to Okinawa where the Bubishi comes from. There was a long history of trade and intermarriage between the two places. It was also common foryoung Okinawan men to go there to be educated.

I think Patrick Macarthy has done the most in depth research on this, including visits to Fukien where hefound locals who practiced forms with the same names and similar postures to the ones in the Bubishi.

But like Sal said, it`s pretty straight forward Southern Shaolin, nothing very rare or unusual.

[mickey]

Greetings,

I would not call that a form. It is just a grouping of postures. I have that book, by the way.

What Sal is referring to is a set of five animal forms that was available on posters in the '70s (can still be found) and in Chinese language martial art books. While the postures are similar in flavor to that in the Bubishi, they are not identical.

mickey

[TenTigers]

the first page is definately the dance moves from "Thriller."