Fat guy- What style to train?

[Ready2Learn]

I am not very fast, but can throw down a huge amount of power in a short time. What is the ideal style of kung fu for someone like me.

The southern styles appeal to me the most because they seem less artsy and flowery. I am looking for a style that can easily be used for self-defense.

Thank you!

Mike

[The Xia]

Look for good teachers, then see what style you feel fits you best. If you train hard, barring any health problems that would prevent you from dropping body fat, you should get into better shape. So I wouldn’t select a style based on your current physique.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I am not very fast, but can throw down a huge amount of power in a short time. What is the ideal style of kung fu for someone like me.

The southern styles appeal to me the most because they seem less artsy and flowery. I am looking for a style that can easily be used for self-defense.

Thank you!

Mike

Sumai.
The martial art of the Sumo.

[Pork Chop]

After a bunch of schools with teachers who were good teachers but still tried to train me like a little guy, I happen to disagree.

Stuff to stay away from if you ain't itty-bitty:
most northern longfist, including (but not limited to) mizhong, certain schools of eagle claw, certain schools of northern mantis (wah lum especially comes to mind), wushu of course, and any school with more than 40 or so forms (because then you know the priority of the school).

Stuff you may want to gravitate towards if you're larger frame:
Hung Gar, Lung Ying (any southern short actually), Hsing Yi, Tai chi, and certain schools of northern mantis (ironic huh? brendan lai's stuff comes to mind).

Grappling arts like shuai chiao can really hurt if you've got extra bodyweight, but once you learn to fall, it may not be a limiting factor- as most Judo and Shuai Chiao guys are injured 90% of the time anyway. :p heheh

[CLFNole]

Hung Gar, afterall Lam Sai Wing wasn't actually thin was he. That being said you will find all kinds of shapes and sizes throughout kung fu. The famous Yang style tai chi sifu was quite large.

Just find a style you like and go with it.

[David Jamieson]

whatever style you want to train in, but have some common sense.

IE: you ain't gonna be doing aerials for a while. :)

[Pork Chop]

whatever style you want to train in, but have some common sense.

IE: you ain't gonna be doing aerials for a while. :)

my point was that sometimes it goes beyond that.
a common thought process in a lot of the kung fu schools i've been in over the years has been: "if he's fat, he just needs to do more"; completely disregarding the fact that the added weight makes everything harder.
the worst, and the one i use as an example was having to do extra switch-stances from pak tui to pak tui by jumping and turning 180.
probably lucky i can still walk.
extra laps of duck walks, extra jumping jacks, and extra pushups, it was like being run out of the school.

you can't go wrong sticking with the styles I mentioned: styles that specialize techniques & training methods that big guys can excel at.

nothing sadder than seeing a big kid being forced to spend all his time doing wushu forms centered around being quick (instead of powerful) & jumping all over the place like a kangaroo.

[SaintSage]

Pork Chop, having spent most of my childhood overwieght (I'm no thin guy now, but I'm doing alright) you are my new hero. *hug*

[Pork Chop]

Well, I'm not saying to be lazy; but it's counter productive if you've gotta take epsom salt baths every evening just be able to move, or if you repeatedly fall down the stairs at work because your legs give out.

[SoCo KungFu]

After a bunch of schools with teachers who were good teachers but still tried to train me like a little guy, I happen to disagree.

Stuff to stay away from if you ain't itty-bitty:
most northern longfist, including (but not limited to) mizhong, certain schools of eagle claw, certain schools of northern mantis (wah lum especially comes to mind), wushu of course, and any school with more than 40 or so forms (because then you know the priority of the school).

Stuff you may want to gravitate towards if you're larger frame:
Hung Gar, Lung Ying (any southern short actually), Hsing Yi, Tai chi, and certain schools of northern mantis (ironic huh? brendan lai's stuff comes to mind).

Grappling arts like shuai chiao can really hurt if you've got extra bodyweight, but once you learn to fall, it may not be a limiting factor- as most Judo and Shuai Chiao guys are injured 90% of the time anyway. :p heheh


I'd say that's a pretty good list. Although I find it strange your listing of the northern mantis. Brendan Lai's mantis (well 7 star in general) is much faster paced than Wah Lum. Forget the crap aerial wushu wah lum stuff that everyone does nowadays. If you are looking from that point then anything > Wah Lum.

But mantis takes fast feet and fast hands. Wah Lum (if you can actually find someone that can teach you to fight with it) is slower paced. Tan Tui stance work is more rooted and akin to southern work. Which as would happen to be, Wah Lum material is about 35-40% southern anyways.

Not that I'm trying to bump Wah Lum. Brendan Lai was awesome and 7 star is probably my favorite of the mantis systems. He's at the top of my list of people I wish I had the opportunity to meet. Sadly that will never happen. There have been notable large size 7 star fighters in mantis history, though the original poster said he's not so much to the speed end. With that in mind 7 star isn't the easiest path to take. Though if he can get that part down the close fighting side of things he could really work his weight to his advantage. But I think something like Hung Gar or Hasayfu might be better suited to that end.

[B-Rad]

I think Baji can be good to. It's a northern style, but more grounded than the long fist systems generally are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRDdUFOC9RA&mode=related&search=

[Ready2Learn]

Thanks guys for all of the replies. Thanks pork chop for your list.

I have a really huge interest in hung gar, choy lay fut, wing chun;) and baguazhang (which no one teaches around here.)

Wish I could find this in atlanta:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL108-I-vlA

[The Xia]

http://www.yinghunggwoon.com/PHP-Nuke/

[Pork Chop]

Well fan yuk tong back in the history of seven star mantis was a big dude.
My opinion on lai and seven star comes from that old video the wah lum folks produced showing wah lum and seven star side by side, with apps from brendan lai.
He wasn't a tiny little dude. He had fast hands but his strategy was like "close distance, take their space, yank 'em off balance, and/or blow threw 'em". I mean, it didn't look like small guy strategy, he threw his weight around real well, and I could see big guys usin it. In practice though, I gotta admit, I haven't seen a lot of folks move in person anything like he did in that video.

[Ready2Learn]

Well fan yuk tong back in the history of seven star mantis was a big dude.
My opinion on lai and seven star comes from that old video the wah lum folks produced showing wah lum and seven star side by side, with apps from brendan lai.
He wasn't a tiny little dude. He had fast hands but his strategy was like "close distance, take their space, yank 'em off balance, and/or blow threw 'em". I mean, it didn't look like small guy strategy, he threw his weight around real well, and I could see big guys usin it. In practice though, I gotta admit, I haven't seen a lot of folks move in person anything like he did in that video.

Where can I find that video. Getting to the inside and blowing through people sounds right up my alley.

[Eddie]

Choy Lay FAT is a good style for bigger people ;):cool:



ok I know its a lame ass joke :D

[Pork Chop]

Where can I find that video. Getting to the inside and blowing through people sounds right up my alley.

Well part of it is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8nmSZxIxd0

Here are some a bit more broken down:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M7M7rLxcYg

Been a long time since i've seen the clip tho, so watching it now, my impression's not quite as shock and awe, but still not bad.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Well part of it is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8nmSZxIxd0

Here are some a bit more broken down:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M7M7rLxcYg

Been a long time since i've seen the clip tho, so watching it now, my impression's not quite as shock and awe, but still not bad.

lai knew his stuff, not much doubt there.

[Ben Gash]

any school with more than 40 or so forms (because then you know the priority of the school).


Hey, I have over 40 forms, and the priority in my school is fighting. Now if it was lots of forms in a short space of time, THAT would be a problem.

[5Animals1Path]

This might sound harsh. It should.




Take it from a guy who used to be over 400 lbs. Lose the f*cking weight.




If you don't have the discipline to take some kind of care of your body, you'll never have the discipline to learn how to be able to fight anyone who's in any kind of shape with a modicum of skill.

[Ready2Learn]

I understand what you are saying "5 Animals...", but in my defense I titled this thread the way I did to receive a specific response. I'm not a couch potato by any stretch. As a chubby kid, I grew up playing football (linebacker), basketball(small forward), and even soccer where I was a slow striker that used skill and jockeying to destroy opponents. I have never been fast and never will be, my first step is great, but I won't be out running anyone past 15 yards. In sports I have always used skill and tenacity to hang and sometimes outclass more talented players.

I will excel at any style that allows me to bust into action like a linebacker crashing through a lineman.

I appreciate your message:)

Brenden Lai's style looks very strong, direct and brutal:cool: Does he have any followers that have continued his teachings.

[Pork Chop]

Tony Chuy's one of Brendan Lai's students.
At the very least he might be able to help you find someone your way.
http://www.northernmantis.com/sifubio.html

EDIT: Try here too: http://www.geocities.com/mantiscave/qixing.htm

hung gar's also a good one for bashing through people like a linebacker.
you can either deal with the bridge (block, defense, etc) or you can just smash it down- think of marciano blasting people's guard so hard he busted blood vessels in their arms.
muay thai has a bit of that too- if a guy blocks but you knock him out of his structure & make him stumble, you'll get points under thai rules.

in response to 5 animal, you can be big and not be real fat.
Not like I got rolls or anything, may not have abs anytime soon, but I workout.
I scarcely see how dropping down to a 145lb tooth pick could be all that beneficial to our self defense capabilities, so why should it be a prerequisite for training?

[chasincharpchui]

learn fei tong long - a.k.a fat mantis

haha

jk


learn kickboxing and wrestling dude!

u'd destroy anyone with all that weight behind u

ground n pound!

[BruceSteveRoy]

i know you are looking for kung fu but you might also consider judo. explosive strength and short burst of energy work well there. plus in my experience there are few things as gratifying as throwing another person. just a thought.

[Golden Arms]

Seriously, check out Xingyi or Xingyi. Arts that use your entire body weight to hit with and are very explosive. If not then pick a Southern art or Mantis. Just my .02 YMMV.

[jmd161]

After finding a good sifu, you just have to remember you're a big guy and train and fight accordingly. I know that sounds easy, but it wasn't in my case. I've always been one of those freaks of nature the big guy who could run and move with the small guys. I played nose tackle and defensive tackle when I played football, but I ran with the running backs and receivers when running sprints.

I always wanted to out speed the little guys, so I trained and practiced that way my whole life. Recently i've had to learn to fight like a big guy not trying to out speed anyone anymore, i'm 41 now, i'm nowhere near as fast as I once was. My speed made up for my lack of technique. Now it's all about technique and using my size to an advantage.

I was told I was too big to do Hak Fu Mun, yet 6 yrs later here I am still training in Hak Fu Mun and surprizing many who doubted me.


jeff:)