ATTN jmd161 (Hak Fu Mun in Hung Gar)

[The Xia]

I remember you saying that Wong Fei Hung and Wong Kei Ying learned Hak Fu Mun from Soo Hak Fu. I also remember you saying that Ye Fu sets are present in some Hung Gar lineages. What techniques that Soo Hak Fu's Black Tiger is famous for found their way into Wong Fei Hung's Hung Gar. Also, what Hung Gar lines teach Ye Fu sets? "Village" styles? I don't recall hearing of any Wong Fei Hung line that does (though that doesn't mean there aren't any).

[jmd161]

Yeah, there are a few lineages of Hung Gar that have Ye Fu (Night Tiger) sets. John Leong is one that I've heard teaches a Night tiger set. In GGFFK many of the opening dbl handed short techniques are all Hak Fu Mun.




jeff:)

[TenTigers]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=18NWNop0I8k&mode=related&search=
JMD-do you recognize this set? It has a strong resemblance to CLF IMHO.
Do you have any sets on vid? I would enjoy seeing some,especially those that have similarities to Hung Kuen.

[jmd161]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=18NWNop0I8k&mode=related&search=
JMD-do you recognize this set? It has a strong resemblance to CLF IMHO.
Do you have any sets on vid? I would enjoy seeing some,especially those that have similarities to Hung Kuen.


Ten Tigers,


That is our Kam Kong Kune form, it's one of our longrange forms. It's being performed by a sisuk of mine on the roof tops in Hong kong around 1972. It was actually a walk through that was recorded. Yeah, we have a lot of Lama and CLF type techniques within Hak Fu Mun. Everyone expects Hak Fu Mun to look exactly like Hung Kune, but that's not the case. I can show you forms that you will see a Hung Kuen influence in right away, and I can show you forms that have no resemblance to Hung Kuen or anything else you've ever seen.


Soo Hak Fu had a very diverse knowledge of different TCMA styles. He incorperated that broad knowledge base into Hak Fu Mun. We have monkey sets as well as drunken sets all created by Soo Hak Fu himself. As well as exotic weapons sets like our Chopsticks and Bowl set and our Chinese Handcuff set as well. So, Hak Fu Mun is very different from what people expect. Other than our Night Tiger sets and a few other techniques here and there, we rarely use fu jow or tiger claws. While we do have longrange techniques and forms Hak Fu Mun is a very inclose fighting system. Think of it as a Choy Lay Fut type of blitzkreig attacking, with Hung Kuen's power and Hung Fut's flair.


If there is any style very close to us IMO it would be Hung Fut, because we share so much in common. We share some fist and weapons sets, but they're a bit different. I have more video, but my sifu has forbid me to post anymore on the internet.:(

There are two more vids on Youtube, but they are both weapons sets. A kwan Do and a Lee Gar staff set. I have a vid that i'm sure you would notice the resemblance to Hung Kune right away :D lol

PM me your email information, and i'll send it to you. You'll have to give me about a week.. as i'm in VA and my vid stash is still in New York.

jeff:)

[The Xia]

Yeah, there are a few lineages of Hung Gar that have Ye Fu (Night Tiger) sets. John Leong is one that I've heard teaches a Night tiger set. In GGFFK many of the opening dbl handed short techniques are all Hak Fu Mun.




jeff:)
Thanks. Do you know of any videos of the Ye Fu sets?

[jmd161]

Thanks. Do you know of any videos of the Ye Fu sets?



Not really... I have a very short clip of it (about 5 seconds) but it's done at full speed, so it makes it very hard to distinguish much in that clip. I'll see if I can maybe post it here, since it's only a brief clip.



jeff:)

[PM]

ye fu cheut lam 夜虎出林 ("night tiger emerges from the forest") is a set of "old Hung Kyun"/Siulam, and was introduced to Hung Kyun by Wong Lei 王利.

i have the whole set on the video, but i will not publish it without the permission of the person permorming the set - sifu (student of Wong Lei) of my senior and very good friend.

it is a very long set with clear structure, most of it dyun kiu jaak ma 短橋窄馬 (short bridges, narrow stances), and resembles Southern Praying Mantis

any more info of Wong family learning Hak Fu Mun or contact with Sou Hakfu? i never heard this info, nor read in any of the Chinese biographies of Wong Feihung.

just a sienote - i have met in China a sifu whose lineage was form Sou Hatyi, "Beggar Sou"

[jmd161]

ye fu cheut lam 夜虎出林 ("night tiger emerges from the forest") is a set of "old Hung Kyun"/Siulam, and was introduced to Hung Kyun by Wong Lei 王利.

i have the whole set on the video, but i will not publish it without the permission of the person permorming the set - sifu (student of Wong Lei) of my senior and very good friend.

it is a very long set with clear structure, most of it dyun kiu jaak ma 短橋窄馬 (short bridges, narrow stances), and resembles Southern Praying Mantis

any more info of Wong family learning Hak Fu Mun or contact with Sou Hakfu? i never heard this info, nor read in any of the Chinese biographies of Wong Feihung.

just a sienote - i have met in China a sifu whose lineage was form Sou Hatyi, "Beggar Sou"


You never heard of Wong Kei Yin and Soo Hak Fu being friends? It is well known that these two were the closest of the Kwangtung Sup Fu. Also many attribute falsely much to Beggar Sou that actually came from Soo Hak Fu. Night Tiger sets are core sets within Hak Fu Mun.

Hung Kuen and Hak Fu Mun have always been close sister styles. You've never heard that either? Ask your sifu of the history Hak Fu Mun and Hung Kuen share. Look at GGFFK at the short bridge dbl hand techniques, and ask where does that come from?!?!?

If you know what is and what's not Hung kuen, and what is and is not Lama, then the Hak Fu Mun should jump right out at you.


jeff:)

[PM]

dear Jeff,

thank your for your post.

Gwongdung sap fu as a group or organisation is imho more legend then truth, and the contacts between them is dubious

yes, i never heard form any old reliable source that Wong Keiying and Sou Hakfu were friends. the contact between diffeent persons from Ten Tigers group is questionable, the only 100% sure thing is Lam Fuksing (student of Tit Kiu Saam) and Wong Keiying/Wong Feihung. people talk about Wong Yanlam and Wong Feihung, but i have never seen a reliable old source, although the influence of lama paai/baak hok/lama paai is evident (but when? time of Wong Keying? Wong Feihung? Lam Saiwing?)

sure thing i know about Hak fu mun/Hak fu paai/fu jaau paai and their relationsh to Hung Kyun, BUT the thing is, it is not certain what system had influence on the other system.

i do not think anything in gung ji fuk fu kyun comes from Hak fu mun, at least according our written history, gjffk comes from Southern Siulam in direct line of transmission. my sigung does not call it even Hung Kyun, but Siulam kyun. (tiger and crane for example is a different story, it is jaap ga, ie. sysnthesis of different "families" - Hung, Choi, Fat... ). and - according our history, our tiger comes from Hung Heigun.

please do not take me wrong, any info is really appreciated, so if you have any more info (plus the source - Chinese text would be great), please share!

[mok]

PM, JMD:

Wong Kiew Kit still teaches "Night Tiger emerges from forest", his Hung Kuen lineage is non-WFH from Malaysia, so this would support it being part of "old" hung kuen.

As for the short-bridges in GGFF being from Hak Fu Moon - I am doubtful. These represent some of the oldest elements in Hung - ie from whatever original art was transmitted from sil lum. I think it is more a case of Hak Fu Moon and Hung Ga sharing common southern sil lum ancestry, although as said many times Hung Ga, and especially WFH Hung Ga has diverged from its original roots.

[PM]

i think Wong Kiew Kit sifu does not teach ye fu cheut lam - i saw his complete curriculum some time ago and i do not remeber this set to be there, if you find it soomewhere, pelase let me know

just a side note - in the time of Wong Feihung, Lam Saiwing and even today, Hung Kyun is called simply Siulam. it has changed since it left monastery and Hung Heigun started to teach the art, as ANY other southern Siulam system. i would not say "especially WFH Hung Ga has diverged from its original roots". although Hung kyun is said to be closest to the original Siulam Kyun, i do not like the "closer to the root" announcements and "village" (?) Hung Kyun madness, it does not say really anything.

[mok]

PM,

I meant no disrespect to the Hung Ga style, or of our claim of being true to siu lum, etc - just being humble.

That said, we know that WFH Hung Ga specifically incorporates influences not from siu lam - i.e. the lama-pai techniques that are quite different from the the narrower stuff in other southern styles - "jaap ga" as you said.

Actually I feel we're very lucky in Hung to have such a good traceable historical record of our style and lineages, and even to a certain degree of its evolution. This is large part due to your si-gung, Lam Sai Wing and even before that to WFH. I even believe a lot of CMA in general owes a debt to our predecessors for providing such a clear example of transmission and tradition.

Hung Ga is and has always been the "gold standard" against which all other southern arts are measured. Just have to look at how many styles claim to be "better than Hung", etc. Even Choy Lee Fut has a punch that is said to be designed specifically to beat the Hung Ga "yut jee choy". :)


Respectfully,

mok

[banditshaw]

Would it be safe to say that the Siu Lam Techniques especially the Tiger shapes be accredited to Gee Sin then onto Hung Hei Goon and Luk Ah Choi? And doesn't most of Hung Kuen as we know it come from the Luk Ah Choi's teachings and so on down the line to Wong Tai,Wong Kei Ying then Wong Fei Hung?

[PM]

Mok: no problem at all, respect to you. btw. not all Southern Siulam is short range - take Choi Lei Fat for example (Choi Ga, Lei Ga and Fat Ga). for HK long bridges i would not say "different", but complementry to the rest of the SYSTEM as we know it today. Hung kyun is definitely not just bunch of techniques put together

Banditshaw: yes

[David Jamieson]

I think to attribute Hung Kuen to any one person is egregious at best.

Better to attribute it to shaolin (sil lum, siu lahm, siu lam, et al) and then down through the lines to the inheritors, modifiers and proponents.

I agree, there is no definitive information in regards to chicken v. egg when it comes to hak fu and hung kuen intercourse over time.

[jmd161]

dear Jeff,

thank your for your post.

Gwongdung sap fu as a group or organisation is imho more legend then truth, and the contacts between them is dubious

yes, i never heard form any old reliable source that Wong Keiying and Sou Hakfu were friends. the contact between diffeent persons from Ten Tigers group is questionable, the only 100% sure thing is Lam Fuksing (student of Tit Kiu Saam) and Wong Keiying/Wong Feihung. people talk about Wong Yanlam and Wong Feihung, but i have never seen a reliable old source, although the influence of lama paai/baak hok/lama paai is evident (but when? time of Wong Keying? Wong Feihung? Lam Saiwing?)

sure thing i know about Hak fu mun/Hak fu paai/fu jaau paai and their relationsh to Hung Kyun, BUT the thing is, it is not certain what system had influence on the other system.

i do not think anything in gung ji fuk fu kyun comes from Hak fu mun, at least according our written history, gjffk comes from Southern Siulam in direct line of transmission. my sigung does not call it even Hung Kyun, but Siulam kyun. (tiger and crane for example is a different story, it is jaap ga, ie. sysnthesis of different "families" - Hung, Choi, Fat... ). and - according our history, our tiger comes from Hung Heigun.

please do not take me wrong, any info is really appreciated, so if you have any more info (plus the source - Chinese text would be great), please share!


Well, Soo Hak Fu is easily traced to his school in Canton, so we know he existed. As far as Southern Sil Lum and Hung Kuen being called Sil Lum Kune etc... The same is said of Hak Fu Mun. Infact some indicate that Hak Fu Mun maybe the elder of the two. I agree it's not certain which style influenced which because both appear to come from the same Southern Sil Lum source, and both have the Lama influence as well. This is of course attribited to the Ten Tigers, whether that is true or not, who's to say. It's quite easy to say you don't see any Hak Fu Mun in GGFFK when you have a limited source of what Hak Fu Mun looks like.

As I mentioned before Hak Fu Mun has many faces and plays all of them well. That is what's so unique about Hak Fu Mun. It was created from 17 different styles, and has done what most could not, it maintained the shape of each of those original arts. So while Hak Fu Mun has it's own unique flavor, it maintains the flavor of the others as well. So if you see Lama in Hak Fu Mun, it looks like Lama, not like a Hak Fu Mun stylist playing Lama. This is something that is slowly fading away sadly though.:(

Hak Fu Mun has always been underground and sadly it remains that way today. Those that are teaching it are trying to preserve it, but they lack the true guidence to do so. It's become a Wu Shu version of itself, they know the movements although, not 100% correct, but lack the application knowledge and experience. I'm not trying to say my sifu is the only one that knows, because he's not. There are many Black Tiger elders in Hong Kong, the problem is none of them choose to teach. So we have a lot of knowledge going to the grave.


jeff:)

[jmd161]

PM, JMD:

Wong Kiew Kit still teaches "Night Tiger emerges from forest", his Hung Kuen lineage is non-WFH from Malaysia, so this would support it being part of "old" hung kuen.

As for the short-bridges in GGFF being from Hak Fu Moon - I am doubtful. These represent some of the oldest elements in Hung - ie from whatever original art was transmitted from sil lum. I think it is more a case of Hak Fu Moon and Hung Ga sharing common southern sil lum ancestry, although as said many times Hung Ga, and especially WFH Hung Ga has diverged from its original roots.


Mok,


This is why many say that Hak Fu Mun predates Hung Kune. Wong Kei Yin and Wong Fei Hung are more of a modern day crossing of the styles. Infact shaolin had various black tiger sets before Soo Hak Fu created his black tiger. It was from the black tiger sets he learned at the southern sil lum temple that he based his art. Yes the two share common ancestry, but there are with out a doubt black tiger techniques in Hung Kuen. The problem is many don't know what black tiger looks like, and few know when and how it got there.

This is something I along with a Hung Kuen sifu friend of mine have been looking into for yrs. If you know Hak Fu Mun and some of it's core techniques, you can't miss it in Hung Kuen. The problem is that many Hung Kuen players don't even question certain techniques within their style. They know it's not Lama or Hung Kuen so they either say it's old school Hung Kuen or just overlook it all together.


Would it be safe to say that the Siu Lam Techniques especially the Tiger shapes be accredited to Gee Sin then onto Hung Hei Goon and Luk Ah Choi? And doesn't most of Hung Kuen as we know it come from the Luk Ah Choi's teachings and so on down the line to Wong Tai,Wong Kei Ying then Wong Fei Hung?

Gee Sin is said to also have been one of Soo Hak Fu's teachers. All most know about Soo Hak Fu is that he was a master of Tiger Claw and Black Tiger. But he knew a lot more than just tiger.



jeff:)

[PM]

It's quite easy to say you don't see any Hak Fu Mun in GGFFK when you have a limited source of what Hak Fu Mun looks like.


i see Hung Kyun in lama, in WCH, in CLF, in Jau ga, in Hung Fat, sometimes move, sometimes whole section, but it does not mean it was always our system which has influenced the other - that is what i mean.

i believe there was mutual influence, but as for gjffk, the story is quite well documented, and the books written by Lam Saiwing's students always give credit to the different sources of the art of their master.

anyway, very interesting info from your side, i would love to see more Hak fu mun - any links (youtube)? something you think is good

[kung fu fighter]

Hey Guys,

I read somewhere that there is a style of hung gar that was similar to wing chun and used a narrow yee gee kim yeung ma stance with short bridges?

Can I get some more info about this style?

Thanks
KFF

[banditshaw]

Hey Guys,

I read somewhere that there is a style of hung gar that was similar to wing chun and used a narrow yee gee kim yeung ma stance with short bridges?

Can I get some more info about this style?

Thanks
KFF

It could be that your talking about the ''Five Pattern Hung Kuen'' that was documented in a Leung Ting publication. That style comes from Fong Sai Yuk supposedly.

[The Xia]

Not really... I have a very short clip of it (about 5 seconds) but it's done at full speed, so it makes it very hard to distinguish much in that clip. I'll see if I can maybe post it here, since it's only a brief clip.



jeff:)
Thanks. How would you describe Ye Fu?

[The Great Sage of HU]

Yeah, there are a few lineages of Hung Gar that have Ye Fu (Night Tiger) sets. John Leong is one that I've heard teaches a Night tiger set. In GGFFK many of the opening dbl handed short techniques are all Hak Fu Mun.


ye fu cheut lam is actually Saam Chien style, which Wong Lei learned in China before he came to Hong Kong and started Hung Kuen.
It's one long form (according to Wong Lei's student Mak Kam Sing).
Some years ago John Leong wrote an article about the set in New Martial Hero - only he wrote it were two seperate sets (ye fu and cheut lam). When showing the article to Mak sifu he said it was actually one set.

[jmd161]

Night Tiger like all other Hak Fu Mun sets is a long set. If you look at the Kam Kong Kune form there has been a lot edited out to make it a shorter clip.





jeff:)

[jmd161]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=18NWNop0I8k&mode=related&search=
Do you have any sets on vid? I would enjoy seeing some,especially those that have similarities to Hung Kuen.


I guess I can post these vids since they were previously on the internet. I'll still have to post Night Tiger at a later date. These are walk throughs, so you won't notice any power or intent. It is from a Hak Fu Mun brother in OZ, he recently moved from Hong Kong. The first is our front dummy form, the first form taught within hak fu mun. The second is sam sing bo i'm sure hung kuen stylist will notice something right away in it.


http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1b6r9qhN1Y


http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wE1fj3JOwQ



jeff:)

[The Xia]

I guess I can post these vids since they were previously on the internet. I'll still have to post Night Tiger at a later date. These are walk throughs, so you won't notice any power or intent. It is from a Hak Fu Mun brother in OZ, he recently moved from Hong Kong. The first is our front dummy form, the first form taught within hak fu mun. The second is sam sing bo i'm sure hung kuen stylist will notice something right away in it.


http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1b6r9qhN1Y


http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wE1fj3JOwQ



jeff:)
The latter one reminds me of a section in Gung Ji Fook Fu Kuen. Some of the same techniques are there.
Do you guys have an "open" school somewhere these days? That stuff doesn't look to me like it was filmed in a "basement" kwoon.

[jmd161]

The latter one reminds me of a section in Gung Ji Fook Fu Kuen. Some of the same techniques are there.
Do you guys have an "open" school somewhere these days? That stuff doesn't look to me like it was filmed in a "basement" kwoon.


That was filmed in Hong Kong, but he is no longer there, so the kwoon is closed now. He's in Oz now, he has some students of his teaching, but it's done in a park now to my knowledge.

Yeah, that's what I was talking about in reference to Hung Kuen stylist being able to point it out right away. He is a few generations from my sifu, and we can see the difference in the Hak Fu Mun he learned and what my sifu learned. Grandmaster Wong Cheung was known to teach different people different things, and that's the case here. The sets my sifu were taught are much longer and the techniques are completely different in some sections.


He's the only person teaching Hak Fu Mun publicly though, other than a few students of his and another student he has in the UK. The ones from my sifu generation are not teaching at all for some reason.


jeff:)

[The Xia]

Thanks jmd161.

[TenTigers]

got the first one to load, the second isnt coming up

[The Xia]

got the first one to load, the second isnt coming up
This link work?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wE1fj3JOwQ

[TenTigers]

ahhh, tanx!

[The Xia]

You're welcome. :)

[mok]

Hey Jeff - thanks for putting these up.

Front dummy: nice basics, some more intricate hand stuff than Hung Gar, but some commonalities for sure. Also couldn't help but notice that you have a "lama/baak hok/hop ga" style penetrating punch in there (haha another can of worms). :D

Sam sing bo: this is so close to gung gi fuk fu, if someone had told me this was Hung Ga from another lineage I wouldn't have blinked at all.

Good stuff. the second clip especially show how closely related the two arts are.

Cheers,

mok

[jmd161]

Hey Jeff - thanks for putting these up.

Front dummy: nice basics, some more intricate hand stuff than Hung Gar, but some commonalities for sure. Also couldn't help but notice that you have a "lama/baak hok/hop ga" style penetrating punch in there (haha another can of worms). :D

Sam sing bo: this is so close to gung gi fuk fu, if someone had told me this was Hung Ga from another lineage I wouldn't have blinked at all.

Good stuff. the second clip especially show how closely related the two arts are.

Cheers,

mok


Yeah, I thought you'd Hung guys would get a kick out of that. The form is much longer... I wish I could put up better quality stuff, but my sifu is not having that. Yeah there is a large lama/baak hok/hop ga influence in Hak Fu Mun, we use a lot of crane techniques also. I think crane is the most widely used animal within Hak Fu Mun based on my current experience, we definately use it more than any other animal.




jeff:)

[TenTigers]

I agree with Mok-if you said it was Hung-Ga from another lineage, I wouldn't have blinked an eye. I would like to know more about the history. Evidently, the Ten Tigers (catchy name) was a kind of melting pot, and the development of various styles might be more linked to that than we realise.

[jmd161]

I agree with Mok-if you said it was Hung-Ga from another lineage, I wouldn't have blinked an eye. I would like to know more about the history. Evidently, the Ten Tigers (catchy name) was a kind of melting pot, and the development of various styles might be more linked to that than we realise.


I agree that I think a lot more interaction went on than people think. I know that they were at different times, but I think that some did some exchanging of techniques. I've always heard that Soo Hak Fu and wong Kei Yin were very close, the closest of the ten tigers.

With the lama influence in Hung and Hak Fu Mun, I would think there had to be some interaction there as well. We also have an Iron Wire set in Hak Fu Mun I think that's more than just a coincidence.


jeff:)

[TenTigers]

so far we have this connection with Soo Hak Fu,Wong Kei-Ying,Tiet Kiu-Sahm,and Wong Yun-Lum. I may be mistaken, but I believe Tam Jai-Guan was responsible for the adding of the Mo Ying Gerk. Does Hak FuMun have this as well?(I'm betting on yes) A while back, there was an article on the Ten Tigers and the different techniques or styles they were supposedly known for. It would be interesting to see this as well.

[The Xia]

so far we have this connection with Soo Hak Fu,Wong Kei-Ying,Tiet Kiu-Sahm,and Wong Yun-Lum. I may be mistaken, but I believe Tam Jai-Guan was responsible for the adding of the Mo Ying Gerk. Does Hak FuMun have this as well?(I'm betting on yes) A while back, there was an article on the Ten Tigers and the different techniques or styles they were supposedly known for. It would be interesting to see this as well.
I thought that Song Tai Fong is credited with giving Wong Fei Hung the Mo Ying Gerk, in exchange for the Tid Seen Kuen. That, and Song Tai Fong learned the Mo Ying Gerk from his wife.

[The Xia]

The topic of the Ten Tigers sparked my interest. I'm going to start a thread about them. :)

[The Xia]

Yeah there is a large lama/baak hok/hop ga influence in Hak Fu Mun, we use a lot of crane techniques also. I think crane is the most widely used animal within Hak Fu Mun based on my current experience, we definately use it more than any other animal.
That's interesting. I figured (due to the name), that black tiger would be the most commonly used animal... What categorizes the black tiger? From what I gather through your posts, it's very sneaky and uses lots of double handed techniques (I'm guessing lots of "jamming" maneuvers)? What hand weapons are commonly used (you've stated that the tiger claw is actually not so prominent)? Palms and ridge hands?

[jmd161]

That's interesting. I figured (due to the name), that black tiger would be the most commonly used animal... What categorizes the black tiger? From what I gather through your posts, it's very sneaky and uses lots of double handed techniques (I'm guessing lots of "jamming" maneuvers)? What hand weapons are commonly used (you've stated that the tiger claw is actually not so prominent)? Palms and ridge hands?


Well, the black tiger is also the concept since it's smaller than let's say a bengal tiger, it relies on speed, but is still very powerful. Plus being black it relies on stealth also. Black Tiger is very sneaky and relies on it's speed and power mixture to overwhelm the opponent. I like to say it's like CLF's blitzkreig attacking with Hung Gar's power. Yeah, jamming is a very useful skill set we use alot. You really need speed in Hak Fu Mun, it's more like a boxer who's a counter puncher.

Like stated before we use a lot of crane and snake, palms and fist techniques are used a lot also. We use the Fu Jow (tiger claw) just not as much as most think we would. Most people expect to see a lot of tiger claw useage, but there are tiger strikes that don't use the Fu Jow hand position. (like the pic in my avatar)


jeff:)

[The Xia]

Well, the black tiger is also the concept since it's smaller than let's say a bengal tiger, it relies on speed, but is still very powerful. Plus being black it relies on stealth also. Black Tiger is very sneaky and relies on it's speed and power mixture to overwhelm the opponent. I like to say it's like CLF's blitzkreig attacking with Hung Gar's power. Yeah, jamming is a very useful skill set we use alot. You really need speed in Hak Fu Mun, it's more like a boxer who's a counter puncher.

Like stated before we use a lot of crane and snake, palms and fist techniques are used a lot also. We use the Fu Jow (tiger claw) just not as much as most think we would. Most people expect to see a lot of tiger claw useage, but there are tiger strikes that don't use the Fu Jow hand position. (like the pic in my avatar)


jeff:)
Thanks. How would you compare the usage of the fu jow in Hak Fu Mun to its usage in Hung Gar?

[jmd161]

Thanks. How would you compare the usage of the fu jow in Hak Fu Mun to its usage in Hung Gar?



Basicly, from what I've seen and know of Hung Gar, it's used the same in most cases. A lot of the Tiger techniques are the same or similiar to techniques within Hak Fu Mun. The only difference is the actual spot on the body that's attacked from my experience.



jeff:)

[The Xia]

Are you familier with any of the techniques in Hung Gar that have black tiger in the name? Like the famous "Black Tiger Steals Heart." It uses fu jow.
Here's a picture.
http://www.hkhunggar.com/chiuwai1.jpg
Does this come from Hak Fu Mun? If not, I'm thinking it's a Hung Gar Black Tiger thing.

[jmd161]

Are you familier with any of the techniques in Hung Gar that have black tiger in the name? Like the famous "Black Tiger Steals Heart." It uses fu jow.
Here's a picture.
http://www.hkhunggar.com/chiuwai1.jpg
Does this come from Hak Fu Mun? If not, I'm thinking it's a Hung Gar Black Tiger thing.


I think that's a southern style technique I know Hung Gar uses it, but so does a few other southern styles, we do have it within Hak Fu Mun, but I think it's just a name thing, not a Hak Fu Mun thing.



jeff:)

[PM]

discussion and article about "night tiger emerges from the forrest" (ye fu cheut lam)

http://www.hungkyun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=170

[Fu-Pau]

Well, the black tiger is also the concept since it's smaller than let's say a bengal tiger, it relies on speed, but is still very powerful. Plus being black it relies on stealth also. Black Tiger is very sneaky and relies on it's speed and power mixture to overwhelm the opponent.

Ummm Jeff (off topic, granted ;) )... the black tiger is not a different species of tiger, it is just a tiger with a pigmentation mutation (even Bengal tigers can be black). Just in the same way that a black panther is merely an ordinary leopard carrying the black pigmentation gene. They are not separate species.
It is a bit like how a Labrador can have either black or yellow pups (or a mix of both), depending on genetics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_tiger_(animal)

... ok normal service is resumed... :D

[jmd161]

Ummm Jeff (off topic, granted ;) )... the black tiger is not a different species of tiger, it is just a tiger with a pigmentation mutation (even Bengal tigers can be black). Just in the same way that a black panther is merely an ordinary leopard carrying the black pigmentation gene. They are not separate species.
It is a bit like how a Labrador can have either black or yellow pups (or a mix of both), depending on genetics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_tiger_(animal)

... ok normal service is resumed... :D


This is true!

Black Tigers are refered to as Melanistic Tigers. I'm going by what I was told that Black Tigers are typically smaller than the bengal tigers, so maybe there is a breed of tiger that carries the gene more than others?

jeff:)

[David Jamieson]

I think actual tigers have little to do with the meat and potatoes of kungfu practice of the same name. :)