Temple Kung Fu

[KungFuGuy!]

I'd like to clear up a few misconceptions about temple kung fu. A lot of slanderous and off-base things were said about it earlier, and I would like to correct them. I was surprised to see such insults, they were very unbecoming of any kung fu student.
First of all, it is kung fu. Not karate, not kenpo, it is kung fu. I've taken tdk, karate, and brazilian jiu jitsu, and none of those styles is anything like what I learn at temple kung fu. I've done a lot of research on kung fu, so I have a good understanding of the techniques and philosophy.
Admittedly, there is a large amount of dedication to grandmaster simon, but that's not a big deal. He is a great man, who did in fact train with the monks in China. He's a high ranking army veteran, and is an exceptional martial artist. In his prime he was one of the best in the world.
We don't enter tournements because the competition and showiness is not the way of the shaolin monks.
It is extremely expensive, true, but all the learning you do is 1 on 1. To hire all the instructors for the vast amount of students takes a ton of money, which explains the huge cost. Joining temple kung fu is like getting your own personal kung fu trainer. You pay the initial cost as fast as you want, and after you do then you're set for your entire time there right up to expert level.
The techniques are very powerful, effective, and practical. We learn everything from weapon defense, ground fighting, grapping defense, and a lot of stand up fighting. Someone mentioned that there is no ground fighting, well that is wrong. We do train it, just not as extensively as stand up fighting.
Someone also said the only weapon we learn is the staff, which is also innacurate. After you've trained for a certain period of time (roughly 3 years) and are deamed ready, you enter special "expert" classes where you learn the broadsword, various spear and polearm weapons, maces, and others.
The instructors are all excellent, and the masters are even better. I have yet to meet an instructor that I didn't like and admire, and I have yet to meet a student who was nothing but friendly. The atmosphere is very friendly, motivating, and serious. It is by far the best school I've been to out of about 10 years of martial arts training at various schools.

[Johnny Hot Shot]

Obviously your are demented and perhaps brain washed. Temple Kung Fu is nothing more than a Money grab dreamed up by a Phony master. Try fighting a Real Kung Fu player and you will soon learn that you suck and your school suck as well as all your instructors and especially your master. Go back to sleep Jr. Kung fu is not sold In francise Kwoons.

"Life's a great adventure, mate."
Jacko Jackson

[sultanpro]

Go ask any of your Temple Rats (Teachers) where Grand Master Simon trained in China, and see what
They tell you?

NOTHING!!! BECAUSE HE NEVER DID!!!!

Stop reading your "Law of the fist" book and see the light.

Skard

Its not what goes in a man that defile's him, its what comes out.

[KungFuGuy!]

Johny, your immaturity robs you of any credibility you may have.
Would you mind proving that he didn't train in China?

[Silumkid]

Try reading one of the other threads on here (can't recall the title unfortunately) where court documents were posted where the "Dalai Shi Sing" or whatever he calls himself testifies under oath that he never went to China.

Kind of speaks for itself.

We are trained in wushu; we must protect the Temple!

[Johnny Hot Shot]

Ok tough guy Read This. (http://forum.kungfuonline.com/1/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=126197291&f=340190991&m=2301954791) Then talk to me.

"Life's a great adventure, mate."
Jacko Jackson

[KungFuGuy!]

Those are just words on a message board.
Anyway, temple kung fu is the only place within 40 minutes of where I live that isn't a tae bo rip off. It's the best place available to me, and it isn't as bad as you are all making it out to be. It's expensive, yes, but I can afford it so it isn't a big deal to me.

[sultanpro]

Like i said before, ask your teachers.

The proof is in the pudding!!

Skard

Its not what goes in a man that defile's him, its what comes out.

[Johnny Hot Shot]

You may be able to afford it but in the long run you'll be sorry you wasted your time.

"Life's a great adventure, mate."
Jacko Jackson

[Silumkid]

That's the thread! Good work, Johnny Hot Shot! :cool:

So there you have it, KungFuGuy.

We are trained in wushu; we must protect the Temple!

[KungFuGuy!]

I enjoy it, and that's all that matters. I'm going to keep enjoying it, because my only other choices are to learn from videos or join "united family martial arts". I don't recall ever hearing that he went to china, it was just something I assumed. If I was wrong, it doesn't matter. He still learned kung fu, and he still has accomplishments in martial arts that everyone here could only dream about.

[Johnny Hot Shot]

Whatever. L :rolleyes:

"Life's a great adventure, mate."
Jacko Jackson

[Kung Lek]

Kungfuguy, you aren't Simon are you? or one of his people? :D

Your profile is mighty thion there buddy, and also, there was nothing slanderous posted on the board.

There were court documents from a public knowledge suit. these documents are available through the records at court of queens bench.

the rest of the people who were not happy had personal experience with the "school".

It's great that you are happy with what you are doing. I'm trying to reinvent the hotair baloon myself :D so far I have discovered that bricks and linen can't be sewn together.

bye.

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[KungFuGuy!]

Heh, well good luck with that :)

If that trial was real and not just made up, then I am disapointed to say the least. However, does everyone here have teachers that have trained with the monks in china? I would be surprised if any of you said yes. Just because he didn't train in china, it doesn't mean he isn't credible. Another question, have any of your teachers won world martial art championships? I believe that I'm the only one here who can say yes :)
Temple Kung Fu can't be a big scam, they've been around too long and are too popular for that.
No, I am not grandmaster simon (lol), I am a student of his Hamilton school.

[JWTAYLOR]

No, the idea that he said he trained in China and didn't makes him not credible.

JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

[KungFuGuy!]

I was never told that he trained in china. Even at the first session of the meditation seminar where he talked for 45 minutes, he never mentioned that he trained in china.

[Silumkid]

Wait a minute....didn't you post this?

>Admittedly, there is a large amount of dedication to grandmaster simon, but that's not a big deal. He is a great man, who did in fact train with the monks in China. He's a high ranking army veteran, and is an exceptional martial artist. In his prime he was one of the best in the world. We don't enter tournements because the competition and showiness is not the way of the shaolin monks.

So, which is it? You can't have it both ways. If he isn't a monk, then why compare yourselves thus? And besides, you sure are making a lot of arrogant claims while knowing next to nothing about us or our teachers. Perhaps I am reading it wrong but to say this: "Have your teachers won any world martial arts tournaments? I believe I am the only one here who can say yes." sounds very arrogant, ignorant, and is also "not the way of the shaolin monks". Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Choose one and go with it

We are trained in wushu; we must protect the Temple!

[Johnny Hot Shot]

C'mon guy's leave the kid alone he's happy. Misguided, blind, foolish but at least he's happy following a fraud.

"Life's a great adventure, mate."
Jacko Jackson

[KungFuGuy!]

As I said before, I just assumed that he trained in china from hearing other students talk. I think him training in china is a rumour that he made no attempt to stop.
As for being arrogant, I was just mirroring the tone that is being used on me. I'm not going to be insulting and continue to be nice.
Would you mind explaining how he is fraud, johnny?

[KungFuGuy!]

I'm very openminded johnny, so if you were to prove to me that I am misguided, I would probably quit tomorrow and learn on my own with video tapes. I'm not stubborn at all, I just haven't seen anything worthy of changing my opinion for.

[firepalm]

Simon is the BIGGEST fraud in the Canadian martial arts community BAR NONE... he started out with a school in Vancouver in the early seventies; Simons' School of Karate & Guitar. He is a Kenpo person, that jumped on the Kung Fu bandwagon of the 70s. He could not have trained in China prior to the his starting a school in the 70s as China was closed. Shaolin temple, the one in Fukien/Fujian (probably Tookien Shiulin that he refers to in his ads), was not in existence during that period and Fukien would have been inaccessible to foriegners. Shaolin temple, the main one in Songshan, Honan would have also been inaccessible although there were a few monks around at that time. And even so if he were to have trained at that time he would have had to have spoken Mandarin, Simon can not! Simon is a lot like the EFC schools, dumb down your clients so that they don't know what's real out there. And it seems to have worked with you KF Guy!

[Johnny Hot Shot]

Go to an open Tournament in your area or better yet check out some other schools, take advantage if they let you try a class or two. You'll see, we're not just saying these things to pick on you.

"Life's a great adventure, mate."
Jacko Jackson

[KungFuGuy!]

I live in a Canadian town called stoney creek. The only places within 40 minutes of me are karate, taekwondo, and kickboxing, and temple kung fu in hamilton. Where I lived before I took brazilian jiu jitsu and was told how much of a joke tkd and karate is, so I went with the only place that wasn't tkd/karate, and I don't regret my decision! I sure hope I don't regret my decision, I dumped thousands of dollars into it :)

[Johnny Hot Shot]

$1000's Wasted. Sorry about your luck.

"Life's a great adventure, mate."
Jacko Jackson

[KungFuGuy!]

Well no, I am learning good techniques from teachers 1 on 1, which is exactly what I want. I'm guessing you guys pay monthly, right? Well total up all that you've spent over the course of 3-4 years, and I bet it's not too much different than what I've spent.

[Johnny Hot Shot]

Your right man, we're all mistaken. I'm Quiting all the Dojo's I train at and sighning up At a Temple KungFu MCDojo right away! How could I have been so silly not to follow the teachings of the dinky sham scam. Oh my! I hope he will forgive me :rolleyes: Please.

"Life's a great adventure, mate."
Jacko Jackson

[JWTAYLOR]

KungFuGuy, how do you know tht your techniques are any good?

For that matter, how do you know that your instruction is any good?

Does your school do any full contact sparring?

JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

[KungFuGuy!]

Johnny, I'm not saying that your schools suck, I'm saying that mine is just as good as any of yours. You're the one criticizing my school.
We don't do any full contact sparring that I know of, but I'm not expert level yet.
I know my instructors are good because I've been at other schools. Haven't you been listening? The techniques are good because they are better than those I've learned at other schools, and they seem very effective and practical.

[KungFuGuy!]

So what do you want me to do anyway? You say you're not picking on me, but all I see are insults towards me and my school. I don't see any advice at all. Who thought a bunch of kung fu students could be such vindictive *****s :)

[This message was edited by KungFuGuy! on 10-25-01 at 03:36 PM.]

[Shaolin36]

KFGUY,
You stated that you havent sparred and coupled it with that you were not an expert.
Just to give you a barometer, I was asked to spar my 3rd week in kung fu. By 3 months I was asked to defend the school. I dont know about your master's dids and donts but sparring is a sure fire way to test your techniques. It is a integral part of application and if your not sparring yet, you may want to suggest it to your instructor.

Shaolin36

[KungFuGuy!]

I said we don't do full contact sparing. We spar all the time, just with light contact.

[Paul Skrypichayko]

Too bad there aren't better places in your area. You should look harder or be willing to travel ****her for real kung fu, but then again, some people are happy settling for cheap quality.

Have you seen Olaf Simon's mansion in the Kootenay mountains of BC ? He built it with the millions of dollars he swindled from kung-fools. I've met Richard Shergold, the man who brought up that lawsuit against Olaf Simon, and I've met, or know almost everyone mentioned in that trial. He started his first school in my hometown, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. SIMON KARATE. The Chinese sifu's mentioned in the trail disproved all that crap Simon tried to tell about his "mysterious" past. War Veteran??? Polish Army? German (Nazi) Army? or maybe the Qing Imperial Army? hahaha. Did you hear the one about how he used to call himself "Dr" Simon. Another good fairy tale.

You may think it is quality martial arts, just because a lot of schools are even lower level than Simon's. Go check out more schools. See some kung fu documentaries / demonstrations / books, etc. If real kung fu masters in their 80's and 90's can still perform splits, one finger hand stand, qing gong, etc. how come Simon sucks so bad? (especially since he's a "silver sash"

[sultanpro]

Kungfuguy- I know how you feel, as an ex-temple member i understand but bro, come on, Simon is as fake as it gets, jr. black belts, 20 yr old teachers, 200$ seminars, the teachers skill level is horrible, mabye you haven't seen a real kung fu player, to know the diffrence, anyways, its better you find out now instead of later.

Also, you say that your not at expert level yet, well, i know guys who trained for over 7 years at the Temple and still left due to the bull****.

What does that tell you????

So i suggest you look for a new school,the same way i did, and if you go tell your Temple RATS that the school is being punked off on some fourm,do you think they care?

NO!!! for them it is not about skill its about money, i hope you got lots......you'll need it.

BTW- Call the Toronto school tell Mr. Murry i said hi!!

:D

Its not what goes in a man that defile's him, its what comes out.

[denali]

Yes.. It can be hard to know where to look when you first start out. But you owe it to yourself to look for a better school.
Think about the options..

Option 1. Bad instruction, high price.
Option 2. Better instruction, lower price.

Look harder and be patient. Good martial arts aren't found only in schools. Maybe you can find a person who will teach you outside of a school.

It's better to spend 5 years looking for a good teacher than to spend 5 years with a bad one.. or so they say.

[danny from miami]

now watch he leaves the school and goes to shaolin-do

[KungFuGuy!]

Hey danny, shut up.

Anyways, I'm not leaving the school for a couple reasons. 1) Lack of choice. 2) Believe it or not, the instruction is pretty good.

[danny from miami]

aw cmon it was funny

[Grappling-Insanity]

So you took temple kung-fu over kickboxing??? your not the brightest. Go over to that kickboxing school and ask to spar. Also look into boxing.

[Grappling-Insanity]

p.s. where do you live??

[KungFuGuy!]

Another insult? Grow up, jerk.
I took kickboxing before and didn't like it. And don't forget, when I joined temple kung fu I thought it was authentic kung fu, and apparently I was wrong.
If you actualy read some of my posts in this thread then you'd know that I live in stoney creek in Canada, near Hamilton.

[tigerking]

:(

I had a discussion once with their chief instructor, Mr.Murray. He told me Grandma---- Simon was a Doctor in FOUR different fields.

Even the best of them....the blind leading the blind.

to the Victor goes the Spoils

[tigerking]

KungFuGuy...you said you spar all the time?

let me ask you, how much did you PAY in addition to your initial membership + kung fu "club",
just for the priviledge to spar in their special sparring "club"

to the Victor goes the Spoils

[davies]

I think as all of us are Kung fu Practitioners and players, that we need to stop bickering and listern to each others Styles, hey I have no problems with Temple Kung Fu, infact wheni'm 21 i'm going to Japan to stay at a Temple, they dont teach Kung fu in Japan, but its the only temple i know that i can afford to stay at for the time my Visa is floating about.
Anyway no martial artist should boast about his/her style, you should all go hang your heads in shame.
Well i train with a Sifu called Daren Norris, he does not come from China, in fact hes English!.
My style is a modern freestyle Kung fu, i also will be starting Namyang Shaolin soon hopefully, if travel permits.
But i have encountered street fighting and its never pretty, no matter how good you think you are. Most training does not prepare you for a street thug, although on average they will be slower, unfitter and not break slabs with their hands. Icant remember your name, but ok, sod fighting another player, go fight some street skin head, see how well you fare!.

All kung fu guy is doing is making do with what is best, who cares if his teacher, may not be authentic, but if he teaches KungfuGuy how to throw a bullet of a punch, the basic move ALL styles learn and he can put his opponant down, WHO CARES.
It shows he has learnt something good

-Kane

[CD Lee]

Look, the guys SAYS he trained in China, and charges alot of money. Only in court he SAYS he did not train in China. The problem is, you can't trust the other stuff he says. Some true yes, other stuff not true I'm sure.

He has shown you that he is willing to lie and fabricate stories to make him appear more credible. I personally would not know what to believe from him. I sure would not pay extra money because it was just from him.

Hey man, you do whatever you want. Just make sure the money you are paying is strictly for what you are learning, and don't pay for other crap. Those prices are frankly, utterly ridiculous. I think it is at least possible, you are paying for brand name there my friend.

Best of luck. This is a tough crowd, but be willing to have an open mind to others experience. Most of these guys seem very sincere.

[joedoe]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> However, does everyone here have teachers that have trained with the monks in china? [/quote]
Yes.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Just because he didn't train in china, it doesn't mean he isn't credible.
[/quote]

True

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Another question, have any of your teachers won world martial art championships? I believe that I'm the only one here who can say yes
[/quote]

I have a training brother who can claim to be a World Martial Arts champion. Big deal. Everyone who holds a tournament seems to call it a world championship.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Temple Kung Fu can't be a big scam, they've been around too long and are too popular for that.
[/quote]

Doesn't mean a thing, just means that they may have been fooling people for longer than anyone else.

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

[KungFuGuy!]

He won THE martial arts tournement. You know, the same one that chuck norris and the like competed in.

You're saying that everyone here has teachers that spent time training in china with monks? EVERYONE? I don't think so.

[joedoe]

1) Which tournament is this? Name the tournament, give the year etc. so people can verify it.

2) Not everyone claimed to have a teacher that trained in China. I did, because my teacher did train in China - that is where he was born and that is where he trained until he had to flee the Japanese.

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

[KungFuGuy!]

I'm not sure, I'll ask an instructor on monday. I've seen pictures of it though, and chuck norris is in one of them. I think bruce lee won the same tourney a while ago.

[joedoe]

Sorry if I came across agressive. I do not really know much about Temple kung fu other than what is on their website. But generally the guys on this forum are pretty genuine guys and mostly their judgement is pretty good. So if they say that Temple kung fu is dodgy I am inclined to believe them. If they are in fact wrong, then I apologise for anything I have said.

It would be nice to verify your teacher's world championship status though :)

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

[KungFuGuy!]

I'll tell you the year he won on monday or tuesday.
By the way, can anyone tell me if hapkido is any good? It's the only place in my area that isn't karate or taekwondo, other than temple kung fu.

[Johnny Hot Shot]

I think Bruce Lee Won it yesterday. :rolleyes:

"Life's a great adventure, mate."
Jacko Jackson

[KungFuGuy!]

That post was even more pointless than this one.

[KungFuGuy!]

What is your problem john? You've been nothing but an ass since your first reply to this thread.

[Johnny Hot Shot]

Doh!

"Life's a great adventure, mate."
Jacko Jackson

[Johnny Hot Shot]

I might ask my shrink that same question. I guess I'm a little bitter about the whole USSD thing. you see Temple Kung Fu and USSD have alot in common. They might as well be the same. The Style is basically kenpo watered down with some additional material taken from other arts. What's his head, Dill Shama Scamer? Whatever.

I may be an A$$ online but if you met me ... I'd kick your A$$.

"Life's a great adventure, mate."
Jacko Jackson

[KungFuGuy!]

Correction: you'd try.
Now you're making threats on me? Are you 13 years old?

[Johnny Hot Shot]

Easy cowboy, Just playing with you. I wish I was friken 13 that way I'd have a chance with some of the 15 year olds I have in my class. :D

"Who's your Daddy?"
Rowdy McNasty

[KungFuGuy!]

hah :)
Anyways, is hapkido worth checking out?

[Johnny Hot Shot]

:p

"Who's your Daddy?"
Rowdy McNasty

[HuangKaiVun]

kungfuguy, don't bother with hapkido or any other art.

What you're learning is more than enough for you, and so forget training anything else just because Johnny Hot Shot or anybody else who doesn't really train thinks your style sucks.

In kung fu, ALL are welcome regardless of style or lineage. This is because an effective technique is an effective technique REGARDLESS of who's teaching it. What you do works for you, and woe to he who would "touch hands" in a confrontation.

With the ugly goes the good. Your sifu, despite everybody's criticism, is a heck of a lot richer than probably everybody else's sifus put together. So he's doing SOMETHING right and reaps the benefit - and negatives - of it. I myself aspire toward such richness, though I'll do it in a different (my own way).

Regardless of the claims you make in your original story (or those that people make against your sifu), your sifu should be proud to have a respectful and loyal disciple such as yourself.

[Rolling Elbow]

The issue is not whether or not the skillslearned at Temple Kungfu wills ave your ass...because knowing how to throw a punch or kick "can" save your ass. The fact that simon has billed himself a "master" is what is funny.

You don't have to have travelled to china to be good or have been taught by a china man..but if you expect to be treated as a "master", one might hope that you will have received this title from peers in your field..other masters for example. With simon, There is no indication of this. The guy looks like a joke. Letting 20 year olds teach and giving them the attitude that they are above those they teach rather than being individuals who both teach and LEARN from their students, is despicable. We all look great in robes, but a master knows how to fight his way out of em.

Michael Panzerotti
Taijutsu Nobody from the Great White North..

[danny from miami]

kungfuguy!, everyones treating u like crap, but listen.really, stay away from that cult place with bad kung fu kempo whatever. learn about real CMA systems and compare it to the crap ur learning now. why not just work on ur horse stance and other basics till u find a good CMA school. of course u have to learn how to do a good horse stance 1st

[Kung Lek]

rolling- your words are true :)

A true -master- would never call her/himself "master"

you can call yourself sifu if you teach kung fu
and sensei if you teach karate, guru for sikkaran and so on. these terms basically equate to "instructor" so, if you are teaching then by all means call a spade a spade. (provided of course that you are indeed qualified to instruct if not keep practicing)

The term Master is definitely the nod of the head from your peers.

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[JWTAYLOR]

KungFuGuy, I can only assume THE tournament you are talking about is the old International Karate Championships in Long Beach, California. It is what launched people like Chuck Norris, Bruce Lee, Mike Stone, into fame.

Hey, I've gotten first place in my forms competition in it before and I got disqualified for unnecessary contact fighting the winner of the under Black Belt division (too bad too, since I was up on him 2 nothin). I've also got a few first and second place trophies from a couple of "international competitions". So I guess that means I'm an international master too. I haven't trained in China, but I have trained in Nicaragua, which is a hell of allot more authentic, IMHO. So, I'll make you a deal, you pay me a paltry $500 and you automatically get to the highest level of training. Sparring full contact with the master himself.

JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

[Johnny Hot Shot]

Do you know me?

your not even worth it. This whole thread is a joke.

"Who's your Daddy?"
Rowdy McNasty

[HuangKaiVun]

You don't even train kung fu, Johnny Hot Shot.

Find the right forum FIRST.

[Johnny Hot Shot]

So :rolleyes: Just because I don't train CMA does'nt mean I can't obtain Kung Fu.

"Who's your Daddy?"
Rowdy McNasty

[CD Lee]

No Kung Fu? No problem.

Go to the temple and buy some. :D :D :D

[Johnny Hot Shot]

:D :D :D

"Who's your Daddy?"
Rowdy McNasty

[KungFuGuy!]

Hmm, and I suppose that your school is so "loyal" to kung fu that it doesn't even charge for lessons? Ya, right.
I'd like to thank the few people who weren't jerks in this thread, and I stress the word "few".
Hey danny, I learned the horse stance in karate when I was 8, it's not rocket science.

[Johnny Hot Shot]

My Pleasure ;)

"Who's your Daddy?"
Rowdy McNasty

[davies]

Hey jhonney, why dont you go on some other forum, such as a forum for losers, or go and play on yahoo.
This Forum is for constructive critescisms, advice and for help seeking, i can give you advice, don't boast about your 'so called art' and never boast about how good you are!, theres always someone better.
and for the help, i think glenbourne can help you out :)

-Kane

[Jeff Liboiron]

TAKE HAPKIDO!!!!!!!!!!!
I saw a demo once and it blew my mind :)

The object is not to hurt someone else, but to stop them from hurting you

[Johnny Hot Shot]

Not boasting, Did I boast ever at how good I am? even if I am good?

I love Martial Arts and Martial Artist. I train every day with all my heart because I love to.

I like this forum because sometimes you can get some really good advice and you can always get a good laugh.


This post has turned in to a silly flame.

Kung Fu Guy I'm sorry I ragged on you. I'm not usually that ****y Just bad timing with the Whole Temple Kung Fu thing is all.

"Who's your Daddy?"
Rowdy McNasty

[Ozihn]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Hey jhonney, why dont you go on some other forum, such as a forum for losers, or go and play on yahoo. [/quote]

That quote is oh so mature, and the insults were totaly amazing :rolleyes: . Johnny is a cool guy :D

[Rolling Elbow]

Hapkido? Why bother..might as well take jujutsu..that way, you won't interrupt sound techniques with spinning flying back kicks!

ok ok..it is soo easy to troll sometimes..there is good hapkido and bad hapkido, good ninjutsu and bad ninjutsu....one thing stays constant though..- fraudulence. Watch out for the Temple cult!!!!!!

(Simon looks pretty good in em robes though)

Michael Panzerotti
Taijutsu Nobody from the Great White North..

[ElPietro]

Well is it really kungfu? I don't know. Is Grandmaster Simon all that he is made up to be? Probably not. Are the techniques taught at the school valuable? I'd have to say 100% yes to this because a punch is a punch and a kick is a kick. You can easily tell if what you are learning would work. The basics are all going to be similar between CMAs. Stances aren't rocket science, most basic techniques aren't rocket science. Sure maybe they won't train you in iron palm or some weapons, but depending on your goal there are still many benefits to training there. Enough that you can still say that it's worthwhile going. How much difference do you think it will make in a fight if his kungfu is less effective then others? It's not like you are using all the advanced techniques you've learned in a fight. You are going to use basics that you've drilled into memory over thousands of repetitions.

My advice would be to at least keep training until you get your money's worth out of it. You are still getting a good workout through whatever routine you are working on, and that's a benefit in itself. Also if the environment is a good one then you should be happy because not all schools have a positive atmosphere with encouraging instructors.

Just my thoughts as I've read through this entire thread and found too many unnecessary flame posts in here. We should help those that seek knowledge, one day you will have a question and I'm sure you'd rather have constructive answers versus a bunch of insults.

[Paul Skrypichayko]

A punch is a punch and a kick is a kick? I disagree. That's like saying a car is a car - wrong, because if you compare a flaming pinto, and a ferrari, I'm sure you'll find a lot of difference between the two.

Some people who are out there teaching have absolutely lousy basics and would probably break their own bones if they ever landed a solid punch. Then there are others who are amazing, and can spend a year teaching you one stance and one punch.

[KungFuGuy!]

It's not like they're teaching us improper techniques, if that were true then they would have been out of business many years ago. In fact, out of about 10 years of martial arts, I was taught the best basic punch technique at tkf. It's the only place that has actualy instructed me to not lock joints when throwing strikes as I could easily break my own bones, as the above poster mentioned.

[Johnny Hot Shot]

As long as your happy. Thats all that really matters right?

Happy, Happy
:)

"Life's a great Adventure, Mate"
Jacko Jackson

[joedoe]

You've been training for 10 years? What styles?

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

[firepalm]

First off Kung Fu guy there is no way Simon trained in China; if you read what I had posted in my earlier post which reads; "He could not have trained in China prior to the his starting a school in the 70s as China was closed. Shaolin temple, the one in Fukien/Fujian (probably Tookien Shiulin that he refers to in his ads), was not in existence during that period and Fukien would have been inaccessible to foriegners. Shaolin temple, the main one in Songshan, Honan would have also been inaccessible although there were a few monks around at that time. And even so if he were to have trained at that time he would have had to have spoken Mandarin, Simon can not!" Simon was nothing more then a mediocre Kenpo guy that jumped on the KF bandwagon of the 70s.

A Edmonton / Vancouver certified instructor level student of Simon's (with several years of training) attended a beginner / intermediate class of a friend of mine's (teaching legitimate KF), the Simon guy barely made it through the first hour of the class of an hour & half class. My friend commented that the guy was a joke & had no foundation to speak of.

The point here; if you want to acquire real skill don't bother with Simon he is not what he claims & you might as well throw your money down the toilet.

[Johnny Hot Shot]

They do have Cool Commercials though :p

And a Neet-o
Dali Shama Scamma (http://www.templekungfu.com/)

"Life's a great Adventure, Mate"
Jacko Jackson

[Johnny Hot Shot]

Does the Dali Shama Scammer have Astral spies? :rolleyes:

"Life's a great Adventure, Mate"
Jacko Jackson

[KungFuGuy!]

You may be right about simon not being what is thought of him, but he is definately not a mediocre martial artist. I've seen him move, he's extremely quick and has excellent technique, even though he is in his 70's. This pattern we do takes a good instructor about 6 seconds to do, he was clocked as doing it in 3 seconds.
Just because that guy from temple kung fu isn't a good martial artists, it doesn't mean everyone from the school is like that. You said he barely made it through the class, so I assume he was out of shape. That's no tfk's fault, we do tons of exercise in every class. If you mean he couldn't learn the forms well, then that again is his own problem.
I don't need to "wake up and smell the coffee", I realize that it isn't authentic kung fu now. However, that doesn't mean it isn't good. Besides, what choices do I have? There's nothing else near me, and I've already paid my entire membership there.
To the person asking about what styles I studied, I started when I was 8 with karate, I then moved on to kick boxing, then I went to a taekwondo/bjj school until about 5 months ago when I moved and joined up with temple kung fu.

[firepalm]

If you feel Simon is the best you can find in the area, then your area must be pretty sad. If money is not a problem then might I suggest you take the time to go some place like Toronto or another larger area from time to time to seek short term better instruction. I've seen a lot in my area (Vancouver) and overseas in Asia (as well as Simon in Canada) and Simon would not even rank in the top one thousand. The guy just plain sucks & is a joke. Anyone in Vancouver whether from hard core fight oriented schools or very traditional Chinese style schools, laughs at Simon's.

As to the student that took part in my friends club, just a little elaboration; he was active at Simons at that time & joined my friend's class out of an introduction (mutual friends in the class). My friend said the guy (who was ranked as an instructor @ Simons) although a young man could barely stretch, had no coordination when it came to trying very basic combinations (this was actually a beginner / intermediate class). In the class persons with only few months training were putting him to shame. It was not a matter of cardio vascular condition, the guy just had no real foundation.

As to forms that take six seconds for good instructors and Simon I can only hazardous a guess that these are ultra short routines, in which case I know a few nine year old girls that could probably shave a second or two off of Simon's record. Move on the guys a JOKE...

[Kristoffer]

I have to say that http://www.templekungfu.com/ is very amusing site :D the fact that people take this seriously is just another reason to why I think that humans are SHEEP! :D

~K~
"maybe not in combat..... but think of the chicks man, the chicks!"

[Johnny Hot Shot]

Shinga Scama Shama is the Baaadest ;)

"Life's a great Adventure, Mate"
Jacko Jackson

[TaoBoxer]

Are these the same guys that were selling "action suits" on their website??

I remember when I was 7 years old I had a GI Joe that had an action suit....he had the Kung Fu Grip, too........ Was he a DaliSeng Shi as well?

[couch]

I don't know if you still come here, but I've read all your posts. I went to Temple for 7 years. If you want to chat, just PM me here.

I want you to know, that no matter what anyone says...about the money, and about the problems everyone else has had with Temple is irrelevant.

I've had my troubles. But the style is good, and effective, and I can personally vouch for that.

Take care, and keep training hard! Because I KNOW that the work-outs are hard! ;)

Couch

[Skarbromantis]

I've had my troubles. But the style is good, and effective, and I can personally vouch for that.

But is it real kung-fu?.........or you dont care?

7 wasted years....it's shame.

Skard1

[PHILBERT]

Skarbromantis, he made a more detailed reply over in the Bad Budo section of E-budo.com. I wrote up on the board a long story about Temple Kung Fu and he replied talking about how his parents wasted thousands on it. What I don't get is this, he says it is good and it is bad at the same time. So he constantly contradicts himself. Schitzo?

[Skarbromantis]

he says it is good and it is bad at the same time. So he constantly contradicts himself.

Yeah ...its BAD to feel GOOD about training with TKF :D

Skard1

[JasBourne]

"His Holiness the Dalai Seng Shih, formerly Grand Master Simon"

bleh.

If you want "His Holiness" to "train your chi", you can travel at your own expense up to his "Neo Ch'an Buddhist Temple" in Grand Forks, Canada, and pony up $195 per "sitting".

Wot a crock of sh*t. Step right up, buy your enlightment today.

[jun_erh]

"There's nothing else near me, and I've already paid my entire membership there."



good luck dude.
:) :( :o :confused:

[KungFuGuy!]

Why did you ressurrect this thread? I made it in like august.
Anyways, I cut my loses and quit that place.

[couch]

"Trying to win an argument on the internet is like winning the Special Olympics...

You've won, but you're still retarded."

Late,
Couch

[jon]

couch

Let me get this strait...
You are trying to DEFEND the actions which have been discribed in this thread?
You are right about not winning this war, its already been won.

Here is another pearl of wisdom for you...

The bad thing about being in a rat race is, even if you win...
Your still a rat!

Not to mention the whole fact of the "special olympics" display exactly the things which our arts SHOULD develop...
Charactor, heart, commitment, determination.
That is insulting in the best light.
Im not trying to be P.C with you but that really is pushing the limits of both moral and taste.


Go back to the temple pay your fee's and buy another belt to hang on your wall.

[KungFuGuy!]

But couch, I don't see how it could be effective. Sure, the workouts can be hard but they're dulled down for the out of shape people in the class, and if your studio is anything like mine then that's about half the class. Also, most skill classes spend about 30 minutes doing defense against punches. The problem is, it's always the same punch delivered at the same speed and the same location, and if you face someone on the street, and one of those variables have changed, you won't know what to do. Often times these punch defenses are reliant on your attacker not moving after he threw the punch, and on the street he'll try to get out of your grip, or even throw another punch.
Also, sparring is a vital part of any combat heavy martial art, and temple kung fu instructors have been known to call this brand of kung fu "combat kung fu". How could "combat kung fu" spar once per week, and charge you $800 per year for it?
Even if it is effective, I can't stand being deceived like that. They tell me that he trained with monks in china, but he's saying in court that he was never in china, and the extent of his martial arts training came from his uncle in germany who taught him kempo karate when he was a kid. I can't train under instructors who I don't respect, and I don't respect the various 19-21 year olds who spend 5 minutes of my private lesson trying to pressure sell various books and gear to me. I can't respect them because they know what they teach is fraudulant, but they do it anyway.
I'm moving on to jeet kune do this week, and I'm thinking of cross training in taiji aswell. I won't give temple kung fu another thought.

[Majic Sam]

KFG,here's how I see it.You are more important than the style.Train where and with whom you like.Check out other styles and find what works best in ALL ranges.Be careful of giving people money who have been proven dishonest in a court of law.This doesn't bode well for you,and liars have some karma to deal with eventually.If Simon impresses you as a martial artist at 70 years old,then check out Dan Inosanto or Helios Gracie.They are not liars,and would tear Reverend Simon a new azzhole,not that he needs another one(present company now withstanding,of course).All the best,Grasshopper!

"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."-Oz The Omnipotent

[couch]

The reason I brought this thread up again, KungFuGuy is because just in case you couldn't find any other schools around you, as you stated before. It was just ment as encouragement to keep training at something you like no matter what.

Anyways, we'll leave it alone.

As far as me being a schizo, far from it. There are good points and bad points about everything in life. The bad points to out-weigh the good in Temple Kung-Fu's example, but I believe that training is training.

For the longest time, I have heard lots of opinions about Temple myself.

I want proof. I'm not calling anyone a liar, or saying that he didn't train with his uncle, but I personally am willing to search out the truth to ?rest? my soul.

Everything is hearsay, unfortunately. And the internet has got to be the best/worst place for it.


I have heard about his students taking him to court, but I personally would like names of these people. Also, to know if these court documents are available to the public, etc.

Any input would be grand.

Cheers,
Couch

[KungFuGuy!]

I didn't know it was you who ressurected the thread, I thought it was jon or jun_erth beating a dead horse. My appologies to all of you!
If you want proof, take a look at the fine print of one of your instructors certificates, and if it's anything like Mr. Sparrow's, it will be authorized by the national kempo association. Now, take a look at your belt certificates. It should say "Signed and Sealed under the code of the Association on the...". "the association? Ask an instructor which association they mean and watch him stammer as he tries to come up with a fake answer. Want to know what mine said? "Uh, it's the association of kung fu". Right...
Also, although I don't have a link, there is a court log somewhere of simon's testimony in a lawsuit filed against him. Someone on the forum refered me to it, maybe they'll link it again.
Training is training? Come on, you don't believe that. It's never too late to switch schools. I took taekwondo for 9 years and quit because I wanted something more. Unfortunately I found something less :D But once again, I decided the best course of action was to move on.

[anton]

Very interesting info about tkf.IMO this is demeaning and disrespectful to both kung fu and kempo. I wonder if anyone has tried to contact the kempo association and tell them about 'His Holiness' fraudulent activities, maybe they would revoke their certification.

On nother note this McShaolin Do crap makes me think that an organised international Kung Fu body is a good idea. Perhaps they could figure out a way of only allowing people with an established lineage to advertise their style as "Kung Fu", sorty of like you cant call alcoholic beverages Champagne or Cognac unless they were produced in the relevant regions.

[Skarbromantis]

I have heard about his students taking him to court, but I personally would like names of these people. Also, to know if these court documents are available to the public, etc.

Richard Shergold (sp?)

I have the Transcripts saved on my P.C from the court case you can find them in the public records it happened in Calgary around 87 (year? not sure) but i can post them if you want??

Skard1

[couch]

WILLIAM KWAI SUN CHOW...
One of Mitose’s students, who was promoted to Black Belt by Thomas Young was William Kwai Sun Chow. William Chow, would later revamp Kosho-ryu, adding elements of his fathers system of Gung fu, creating his own system of Kempo, called Chinese Kara-ho Kempo Karate. Born on July 3rd, 1914, William Chow was also known as "Thunderbolt" because of his incredible speed and power. He spent most of his life practicing and perfecting his martial arts. He became quite famous for his martial prowess and excellent memory of techniques.
Originally, Chow’s system of Kempo was called Goshin-jitsu. This system is still being taught today by William Chun Jr, the son of William Chun Sr. who trained with Professor Chow. After some refinement, Chow changed the name of his style to "Chinese Kempo of Kara-ho Karate". This would later be simply called Chinese Kara-ho Kempo Karate. Today, Kara-ho Kempo is being led by Grandmaster Sam Kuoha, who runs the Kwai Sun Company, an organization that he and Chow created to legitimize those claiming to teach Kara-ho Kempo. William Chow died in Honolulu on September 21, 1987.

Over the years, William K.S. Chow had many students, including: Nick Cerio (who formed Nick Cerio’s Kenpo), Adrian Emperado (who was one of the founders of Kajukenbo), Ralph Castro, (who founded Shaolin Kenpo), Sam Kuoha (Kara-ho Kempo), William Chun Sr. & Jr. (Goshin-jitsu), and a man named Edmund K. Parker.

EDMUND KEALOHA PARKER...
Ed Parker was born in Hawaii on March 19, 1931, and raised a devout Morman. He began his martial arts studies with Judo, becoming a Black Belt at the age of fifteen. Ed Parker began his Kempo training under Frank Chow, William Chow’s brother. When Frank Chow had nothing left to teach him, Frank Chow introduced Ed Parker to his brother William Chow, and it was then that Ed Parker knew that Kenpo would become his life’s work. Parker continued to study with William Chow off and on, while he was attending Brigham University in Provo, Utah (going back to Hawaii periodically) and serving in the Coast Guard, stationing in Hawaii. He received his Black Belt from William Chow on June 5, 1953.

Parker opened his first school in Provo in 1954. Parker then moved to Pasadena, California, in 1956. He remained in Pasadena teaching the "original" Kenpo he had learned from Chow until 1960. In 1961, with the help from Gung-Fu master James (Jimmy) Wing Woo, Ed Parker developed "Traditional Chinese" Kenpo. Woo would develop most of the forms and sets which Parker's system now uses, with help from Ed Parker's first Black Belt, James Ibrao, and Parker himself. Parker also removed most of the Jiu-jitsu techniques including the falls and rolls. Parker then removed most of the self-defense techniques, from 600 for Fifth Degree Black Belt (over 400 were required for 1st Degree Black Belt) down to 178 techniques in total for the entire new system, which became known as Ed Parker’s American Kenpo Karate."

Ed Parker was an incredible martial artist and innovator, creating new forms, sets, self-defense techniques, concepts, theories and principles, making Kempo more scientific than ever before. Ed Parker was a definite pioneer of martial arts in North America. Ed Parker died in Honolulu on December 15, 1990. The "Magician of Motion" will always be remembered and missed. Upon Parker’s death, his organization the International Kenpo Karate Federation, splintered into hundreds of new organizations. Ed Parker’s son, Ed Parker Jr., is a Black Belt in American Kenpo, and runs the Ed Parker Institute along with Ron Chapel, an original Parker student, in the hopes of continuing his fathers legacy.

One of Ed Parkers students while he was in Provo, Utah was a man named Olaf Simon. Olaf Simon taught what he called "Chinese Kempo" in Calgary, Alberta Canada. Two of Olaf Simon’s students were Lyndon and Edward Bateson. The Bateson’s taught Chinese Kempo to a man named Larry Kwan, who is the brother of Glenn Kwan, founder of Genkido Kempo.

GLENN ELLIS KWAN (founder Genkido Kempo)...
Soke Glenn Kwan - Hanshi, started training in the martial arts in Chinese Kempo Karate, in Regina, Saskatchewan, in 1966, under Lyndon and Edward Bateson, two instructors from Grandmaster Olaf Simon’s headquarters in Calgary, Alberta. While training in Regina, Soke Kwan also trained with his brother, Larry Kwan, in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, and moving to Penticton, British Columbia, he achieved his brown belt ranking in Kyokushikai Karate, under Master Ben Bertram. Soke Kwan returned to Moose Jaw in 1972, and once again began training with his brother Larry, who founded the Kempo Sho-kai system of martial arts. In June of 1974, Hanshi Kwan achieved his 1st degree Black Belt in Chinese Kempo Karate. In 1974, Soke Kwan moved to Barrie, Ontario, and began teaching what has evolved into Genki-do Kempo Karate, incorporating Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and North American Freestyle Karate. Undoubtedly the evolution of Genkido Kempo was influenced by many of the teachers Soke Kwan trained with, including: Grandmaster Ed Parker (American Kenpo Karate), Soke Steve Reynolds (Jiu-jitsu-kai), Grandmaster Chuck Platten (Hapkido), Sensei Monty Guest (Chito-ryu), Soke Israel Segarra (Goju-kai), Prof. Wally Jay (Small Circle Jiu-jitsu), O’Sensei Harold Howard (Jiu-jitsu), Grandmaster Olaf Simon (Kempo), Grandmaster Denis R. Decker (Chi Ling Pai Kempo).

In 1995 Soke Kwan was awarded the rank of 7th Dan in Chinese Kempo Karate by the Canadian Martial Arts Association (then run by his brother), and was recognized by the International Eastern USA Martial Arts Association, as well as the Kai-Shin Karate Association, Police Martial Arts Association, and Goshin Jutsu International. Soke Kwan is on the board of directors of the following associations: Eastern USA Martial Arts Association, Goshin-jutsu International Martial Arts Association, as a technical advisor in Chinese Kempo, Chito-ryu, and Jiu-jitsu. As well, Soke Kwan is also currently the President of the Canadian Martial Arts Association, and Kempo Karate International. In 1995, Grandmaster Denis R. Decker, of Edgewater, Florida, granted Hanshi Kwan, his 7th degree Black Belt in Chinese Kempo Karate, and Sifu 1st level, in Chi Lin Pai Kung Fu, and welcomed him into the Chi Lin Pai family. In 1997, he was appointed a director of Futurebound, an organization to help students stay in School. In August, 1997, Martial Arts Masters, Legends, and Pioneers Hall of Fame introduced Hanshi Kwan as Grandmaster Kwan.

NOTE: We wish to thank Sensei Jason Ward for all his help in providing us with a "concise" Kempo history for these pages.


This was done in a search with google, and it's a chached page:http://google.com/search?q=cache:JiDfi21GlyMC:www.oma-academy.com/kempo3.html+simon+karate+olaf&hl=en

Later, Couch

[burnsypoo]

Hey KungfuGUY!,
weren't you saying that you were only training there because it was the only thing in your area at the time?

http://www.vingtsuncentre.com/

seems to be in Stoney Creek. Maybe they could help you there?

-BP-