Differance Of Hung Gar And Tiger Crane ??

[FANWOO]

is tiger-crane kung fu, and hung-gar kung fu the same system? if not what separates the two ?

[golden arhat]

one doesnt work

and the other one doesnt work even more






(only joking tentigers we all know u da man)

[Laukarbo]

Tiger and crane is a set/form in the hung gar curiliculum.
Its the most famous form..sometimes some use tiger and crane as the style name but really its hung gar..

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Some Hung Gar courses consist ONLY of Tiger Crane as well. Especially in school that teach multiple styles,

[Fire Dragon]

Wasn't Hung Gar originally just a Tiger style and then Wong Fei Hung added the crane later?

FD


BTW, wow a kung fu thread on the kung fu forum!!!!

[southernkf]

As stated, Tiger and Crane (Fu Hok) is a form within Hung Gar. Hung Gar is somewhat famous for this form and is often called the Tiger and Crane. arguably they are the most visible of the animals in the forms. Many styles have included this form into their own curriculum apparently.

It is hard to tell what exactly hung gar was. We know what it is now. Hung Gar is said to have derived from tiger roots through Gee Shim and the Crane was added later. But of course this is hard to verify if we are inclined to try. What crane exactly was added is also a bit difficult. It doesn't seem to me to be the Fuiken white crane that is more common. Atleast I see differences between them. Since then, Hung Gar, atleast through Wong Fei Hung and others, has incorporated many components including various weapons, northern forms, Lama/Lions Roar/Hop Gar, Tiet Sin Kuen, etc. Your lineage may vary.

[Southern Fist]

Tiger and Crane is one of the main sets of Hung Gar it can be called the heart of the style.

As mentioned before Tiger and Crane is Hung Gar in itself. Since all that the Style's main techniques are in this set.

Some schools of Hung Gar call themselves Fu Hok Pai or the Tiger Crane System.

The reason why other styles share this set is because of the appropriate blend of Hard and Soft and Long Range and Short Range techniques.

[Laukarbo]

I wouldnt say its the heart of Hung Fist..I like to say its the face,its what u show

but heart or better yet the spine of Hung Gar Kuen is Gung gee fook fu kuen ,imo.

:D

[banditshaw]

I'll have to go with with Laukarbo on this and second that.
GGFFK is the Roots for sure.

On another note. Lam Sai Wing was dubbed as ''Mr. Tiger and Crane'' and If I am correct I think his schools were the first to be called Fu Hok Pai or something to that effect.

Some others here may know exactly.

[Laukarbo]

you could say Tiger crane is the representitive for hung kuen...:D

most Hung sifus play fu hok on demos etc. ..

so I understand why some people think its the heart/spine but its ggffk, I think most hung practicioner would agree here..

[southernkf]

Based on my teachings, I'd agree on GGFF being the core.

GGFF is a old form that seems to be found in all Hung gar, atleast in some form. Fu Hok is only found in Wong Fei Hung Lines or from People who incorporated the set.

I haven't learned Fu Hok, but I don't believe it contains ALL the techniques

[AJM]

one doesnt work

and the other one doesnt work even more






(only joking tentigers we all know u da man)
I'm so happy I set my coffee down before I read this. LOL.

[Pork Chop]

...What crane exactly was added is also a bit difficult. It doesn't seem to me to be the Fuiken white crane that is more common. Atleast I see differences between them...

Think you may be surprised.

[ginosifu]

Hung Gar has it's own unique flavor. Kung Gee Fook Fu & Tiger Crane are forms that represent that Flavor. The forms contain techniques that encompass the system.
Some entire schools are dedicated only to practice Kung Gee Fook Fu. Others only Tiger / Crane. They take the moves from the forms and and used only those comprize their self defense.
People who only do KGFF look a bit different than those who only do T&C. Their style is the same but emphasize different moves and techniques.
Evan those they are supposedly doing the same system, over the years personal differences cause schools from the same line to look and act diefferently than others. These are just "Flavor", the core theory should be the same. If the theory changes, then are no longer practicing Hung gar.

Ginosifu :p

[SIFU RON]

is tiger-crane kung fu, and hung-gar kung fu the same system? if not what separates the two ?


Hard question to answer. The answer has to do with your own background and that of your Sifu's.

I learned 2 different styles of Tiger/Crane.

The Hung-Ga Tiger/Crane.

The Choy-Li-Fut Ga Tiger/ Crane.

My Sifu was the late Grandmaster Ark Y. Wong.

For sure, regardless , Tiger/Crane is just as all of you have presented it.

Regards, Sifu Ron

[martin watts]

Tiger Crane in Singapore is a southern style with close ties to the Fu Jian white crane from Yong Chun. The San Zhan, and at least one other form ( Shr San Tai Bau i.e. 13 treasures ) are almost identical in overview. It is likely that the Yong Chun Bai He Chuen influence in this style was from about 4 generations ago, may be 3.

The tiger element of this style is more difficult to discern as being a distinct influence.

The emphasis on breathing is a little different. The web Site www.namyang.co.uk is for a school teaching Tiger Crane from Singapore. The system is currently headed by Master Tan in singapore.

As such this is a southern style very much in the vein of hard white crane, and wu zhu chuen rather than southern cantonese styles. It may be even that Tai Zhu Chuen is mixed in here a little, but as they are all practiced in a similar area, there is some blending anyway. The White Crane element of the Hung Gar Tiger Crane form does not seem to me to have such a strong link with the Southern Cranes or this Tiger Crane Style so I do not know where it is from ( someone who knows more about Hung Gar Tiger Crane might be able to say.

[southernkf]

Hi Martin,
Thanks for your info. An earlier post made me second guess just for a second that southern White Crane may have been part of Hung Gar. But then I got over it. Like you implied, I don't see the similarities. It seems the little WHite Crane I have seen is very much different. But then, I am neither an expert in White Crane nor Hung Gar. Just going off what I have seen and have been taught.

Thanks

[mok]

If you look at the oral histories of Hung Gar, the crane parts of our art were added supposedly by Hung hei Gwoon, who combined the tiger he learned from abbott Gee Sim with the crane from his wife Fong Wing Chun. Supposedly that crane was sium lam in origin and according to the legend was taught to fong wing Chun by Ng Mui.

Now there's been some question surrounding this, as Shaolin Fukkien White Crane looks completely different than the sil lum crane that is included in Hung Gar. Whatever the story may be though, the crane parts in Hung Gar are consistent with some other siu lum cranes but do appear somewhat more northern.

For example take this crane set from the other thread on Leen Koon Hung - CLF:
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48067

This crane has alot of similarities with what's in Hung Gar's tiger crane. And no resemblence at all to fukkien crane. Interestingly enough according to that thread the LKH crane set is from Choy fook, a northern stylist. Similarly the crane beaks that are present in both CLF and HG are also present in tibetan white crane - Bak Hok Pai, which at some point had an influence on Hung Gar.

Now it may be that somehow tibetan crane, CLF, HG, crane are closer to the original "shaolin crane" and that fukkien crane was heavily influenced by Hakka arts (the cross-pollination is obvious). Or it may be that what's in Hung Ga is not from Ng Mui at all and has itself some northern influence. Who knows?

Either way, you have these two distinct general ideas of what crane is, which have enjoyed histories and transmission for at least a few generations and close to 300 years.

[TenTigers]

I suggest you play the opening sections of Tiger/Crane to see the Fukien/Hakka influence. In some versions, it is played in yee ji kim yeung ma. For fun,play both hands together. I did this in front of some Hakka Kuen people and they all thought it was Hakka Kuen,possibly Chow Ga. When I told them it was Hung Kuen, they were pleasanty surprised. I have seen other older, non-WFH Hung Kuen people, and their Gung-Fu looked alot more Hakka/Fukien in flavor. Some people differentiate between what they refer to as Hong Kong Style Hung-Ga, and mainland Hung Kuen. Just as we have seen thanks to the internet,exchanges such as this and the strong efforts by people such as Eric Ling, we have now seen many different forms of Wing Chun,Hakka Kuen and recently, Hung Kuen.
Remember when Yip Man Wing Chun was all we knew? Give it time, and we might just find that our Hung Kuen is not the only game in town.

[southernkf]

Hi TenTigers,

That indeed is interesting. My next thought would be is the opening of Fu Hok attributed to the crane, the tiger, or some other aspect? Imyself havn't linked the opening section to White Crane, but what do I know. Heck I don't really know the form (though I am familiar with it). However, I find it interesting that that the opening section would look Hakka/White Crane-ish but the actual crane section don't? Am I just looking at it incorrectly? The classic crane techniques seem very different.

[Pork Chop]

Yeah, I think you're looking for the crane in the wrong places.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4dfraMhTHA
I've seen a lot of those moves in the hung gar I've seen around.
Some of that stuff appears in most of the versions of gung gee you see on the net.
Yes, stance is different, but the bridge is what's important.

[southernkf]

Hi PorkChop,

Good vid. That crane seems different from most of the other stuff I have seen. Though my understanding is that White Crane has fragmented and there are several distinct variations. What was shown indeed looks like Hung Gar to some degree. But what strikes me is it doesn't look like the Crane portion of Hung Gar, but rather Hung Gar in general. So my question is if the part we attribute with crane today may be a reinterpetation of the crane? Maybe the crane Fong WIng CHun introduced was different, perhaps closer to what you showed and the crane we have in Fu Hok is something else?

For a comparison, this is what I think of when I think of crane in hung gar, which is not like the white crane in the link. And why do most people talk about this type of crane?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGNxzY_X-CY

[Pork Chop]

Four types of Fukien crane right?
Ancestral Crane (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7iBK9T0qW8)
Whooping Crane (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izkS8K0kc_A)
Feeding Crane (http://www.youtube.com/user/yincheng26)
Flying Crane (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtIlO0wMBeQ)

The crane beak came from Tibetan Lama

You do gotta admit the white crane has a different power than the tiger- much more umm snappy? lot less "blow through them".

[TenTigers]

SouthernKF-the opening sections contain pretty much all the same moves you learned in Wing Chun and SPM. It is very crane. Separate the crane beak,open wing stuff from the short winged stuff and you will see what I am referring to.
When you open you press the palm down,chum. Then mei yun jiew gang-beauty looks in the mirror-tan-sao. Then huen, hook to the side, pak,and palm strike,etc-all crane movements.(Your version may have slight differences, but basically the same.

[southernkf]

Hi TenTigers,

Just so I don't give the wrong impression, I don't do SPM, though I would love to. THat is one of the few styles I really enjoy what I see. I also like alot of the white crane as well as a few others.

Also, I have not learned Fu Hok though I am familar with it. So much of this may actually be lost on me, and I probably ought not even be commenting on it. LOL.

I see what your saying. Though I never thought of that section as crane. Actually I suppose I could suggest that beauty looks at mirror is more of an outward block, but it still could be very cranish. I don't use my tan quite like that so I am not so sure about that connection. Interesting. Now you know why I choose the signature I have. LOL.

***********added later***********
Ohh, I forgot to add another thought. Fu Hok is "newer" isn't it? If the white crane were part of hung gar, then it should be found in GGFF? That form I do know. Would you say the same applies to the opening of Gung Gee once your start moving, or even just before?

[Satori Science]

Awsome Tiger Crane!

check it out,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKdqAwiBKCs

[TenTigers]

GJFFK is more rooted in the Fut Ga LoHan Kuen of Siu Lum Kuen. It is the Gung Faht of Hung-Ga-the development of the Gung-Fu Body. Focus is on building the structure, the stance, the connection between horse and waist and back (yieu-ma) and opens up into the Kuen-Faht-or technique development in Fook Fu Kuen, or in Lam Sai-Wing lines, the second half of the set. Not as much emphasis on the short bridging of the crane in this set.

[Andy]

I am a practitioner of Fu Hok Yao Kong Fut Pai (Tiger Crane, Soft Hard, Buddhist Sect) and it bears little or no resemblance to Hung Gar. For more information please check out the following web site.

www.fuhok.org

[Ben Gash]

Don't forget that Hung Gar probably looked very different 200 years ago as well.

[Andy]

The theory, design and strategy of the Fu Hok Yao Kong Fut Pai are also quite different than that of Hung Gar. Please also keep in mind that the Hung Gar contains other animal influences while the Fu Hok Yao Kong does not.