Effect of Kung Fu on Society

[Jeong]

All - My brother is writing a paper for a class on the cultures and religions of East Asia, and he wants do write about the role that Kung Fu has played in the culture and society historically. He called me up and asked if I had any references that would be useful. Nothing really came to mind, so I figured I'd ask all the people out there who really know what they're doing. Is there any books/articles that you have come across that address this topic? Of course even better if they sell them at martialartsmart.com. Thanks!

[bodhitree]

check the ezine at this site, or look for books at www.martialartsmart.com

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4OH-UomelQ&mode=related&search=

a start.

:)

[BruceSteveRoy]

i think if you are looking at "kung fu" in the modern sense you are limiting yourself from the greater scope of martial culture.

but one thing you could look into is the confucian influence on the development of kung fu. the concept of filial piety and its relevence to the structure of authority within a school and its lingering impact on the reverence kung fu students are expected to give their sifu.

i think more often than not you are going to find that kung fu didnt impact society and religion as much as religion, and society impacted kung fu.

one thing that you could look for (which would be easier to find) is the influence of martial culture and war on the the development of western civilization and its spread of religion and then do a comparative piece to the east. just a thought.

[David Jamieson]

you could also give context to it in a broader sense by referencing those aspects in other cultures that are similar to the Confucian / Buddhist / Taoist ideal of achieving kungfu.

ie: paladins, knights, chivalry in western medieval societies that laid the groundwork for the thinking behind what makes a human upright and more than a mere creature subject to instinct and feral response.

google and wiki are your friends here as well. Gene's articles aon Shaolin will be a good resource as well. They're in the ezine here. check it out.

[BruceSteveRoy]

i don't know if gene's articles will qualify as scholarly work or as acceptable use for references. i don't think any of my profs would have accepted kung fu magazine as a valid source of factual information not unless the articles in the magazine provide further citation to the facts. mostly you would want to find historical journals, and books that list credible sources for their information. again no offense intended to gene or his work and i am not questioning the validity of anything he has written but rather saying that a professor has to unless there are credible ciations.

now if you emailed gene and got his sources for the information he has written about that would be different. or if gene can be listed as a primary source that would also be acceptable (assuming there is a way to prove he is an expert in the field). again just some thoughts. i don't know how strictly your professor is going to mark this or how much depth needs to go in to it.

[bodhitree]

The Journal of Asain Martial Arts may be a good place to go....

Gene kicks scholars in the crotch

[David Jamieson]

JAMA has no more or any less credibility than any other magazine. It is printed on nice paper, is thick etc etc but it isn't any more or less valid than anything else out there.

as for Gene, a goodly chunk of his experience is direct, which in my opinion has more weight than book study.

he is also a disciple of shaolin and was the head instructor of north shaolin for one of the most reputable kungfu schools in North America and has been authoring articles on the subject of Chinese Martial Arts for longer than several members of this forum have been breathing air.

There, I gave the props, you do the rest. :-)

The only other advice I would give is that instead of writing about what is wanted, write about what you know. IE: if the subject is too foreign and you lack intrinsic and extrinsic knowledge, then it is definitely better to not write about it.

[BruceSteveRoy]

while i agree that his credentials are impressive and the quality of his work is excellent i am just putting it out there that most profs won't accept citations that aren't peer reveiwed. it has nothing to do with what we think of him but rather what a professor would require.

[David Jamieson]

The nature of kungfu instruction and practice will then cause problems as far as peer review goes.

However, are we not as readers and practitioners the peer review required to use G's articles on shaolin trips and others as a source and as a reliable source?

[WinterPalm]

No matter what you do, do not use Wikipedia as a reference. Use them for links to real sources but don't cite it. Professors, with the odd exception, will not take it as a legitimate source of information.

[Mas Judt]

Just contact Sin The'. He's the sun source of Chinese martial arts...

[Mr Punch]

Kung fu has had the great effect of putting social Darwinisim into action. It reached it's peak during the Boxer Rebellion but there are still a few invincible fuers out there now.

:D

Only kidding! A good place to start would be the influence shaolin had over buddhism as a whole... don't use wiki alone, go to the sources. KFM should sometimes be OK, but you should prob write and ask the writers about their sources, and quote both.

[Dragonzbane76]

that's a tough one. I wrote a paper in college on the impact of TCMA on religion in asia and finding sources was like pulling fingernails from rocks. There are books and such but getting good ones is a hard thing to do. I had to do inter library loans that took almost a month to get. Good thing the paper was due at the end of the semester or i would have been screwed. internet sources are frowned upon and personal interview types even more. For some reason they want hard sources (the written word) in some fashion or another besides virtual or other. Going to be a tough paper to get the info for is all I can say. I'll look and see some of the material I used but i have to dig through a boat load of stuff to find it.

As someone stated above you might tell him not to limit his scope so much so he can keep his avenues open for other opportuinites and more material enlightened sources. the only thing that saved me a bunch of headache was the fact that most prof. have no clue into the MA world and take things as given. Although there are some that would dig to find out.

peace

[MightyB]

Personally, I think your topic is too broad. I did a similar paper for a similar class when I was an undergrad, but my topic "Effects of DaMo on Martial Arts" was far easier than what you're proposing--- It's way easier to find source material and references. Also, it's easier to prove that he had an effect (you know, the whole Chan / Zen influence on martial arts- plus it's historically recent and well documented). Spoiler- TCMA existed before Shaolin:eek: - so how did the temple and DaMo become so entwined with martial culture?

See how easy it is.


Just my two cents-

Kurt

[Shaolinlueb]

you can say kung fu gives you discipline in the mind. not just for pain, but for work, money, and control over other things people would have a hard time with ;) :P

[unkokusai]

The nature of kungfu instruction and practice will then cause problems as far as peer review goes.

However, are we not as readers and practitioners the peer review required to use G's articles on shaolin trips and others as a source and as a reliable source?



Quite the scholar there, ain't ya? :rolleyes:

[David Jamieson]

Quite the scholar there, ain't ya? :rolleyes:

I'm sorry? what's that little troll? you have something to say or you just here to live up to your name? lol.

[BruceSteveRoy]

what does unkokusai mean?

[unkokusai]

I'm sorry? what's that little troll? you have something to say?



Yes, I thought it was clear what I had to say. You are an idiot and if the kid listens to your blockheaded advice he'll fail his course for sure.


"Der, Wikipedia is a legitimate source for a research paper!"

"Der, as long as its printed on paper, its all equally legitimate!"

"Der, 'peer review' means asking the guys on the KFM forum what they think!"

Wow :rolleyes:

[David Jamieson]

Yes, I thought it was clear what I had to say. You are an idiot and if the kid listens to your blockheaded advice he'll fail his course for sure.


"Der, Wikipedia is a legitimate source for a research paper!"

"Der, as long as its printed on paper, its all equally legitimate!"

"Der, 'peer review' means asking the guys on the KFM forum what they think!"

Wow :rolleyes:

uh, im not sure we're reading the same thread, but thanks for clearing up a couple of things for us all there einstein. lol

please return to shouting at your warcraft account ya rube. lol :rolleyes:

[bawang]

All - My brother is writing a paper for a class on the cultures and religions of East Asia, and he wants do write about the role that Kung Fu has played in the culture and society historically. He called me up and asked if I had any references that would be useful. Nothing really came to mind, so I figured I'd ask all the people out there who really know what they're doing. Is there any books/articles that you have come across that address this topic? Of course even better if they sell them at martialartsmart.com. Thanks!
hi
kung fu, the wu culture has had some positive, some negative effects. same with the "wen", scholar culture. wen leads to decadence and weakness, and wu leads to ultra violence.

THE book to read is the yuan/ming dynasty water margin, you should be able to find a english translation at a public library.

what is the effect of kung fu on society? stories like wusong disembowling the adulteress and sacrificing her head and five organs to his deceased brother, lu da kills a man with three punches were very popular for hundreds of years. what do you think its effects are?

another important source is the BOXER REBELLION, Yi He Tuan.
there is a reason the Manchus banned civillian martial arts. it's virulent and can spread across the entire country.

and if anyone had noticed, if you train correctly kung fu you get more "ornery". imagine millions of peasants transformed into that mindset.

[Mr Punch]

what does unkokusai mean?Stinks of ****.

[unkokusai]

uh, im not sure we're reading the same thread, :



I don't blame you for being embarrassed.