i hope kung fu doesnt go in this direction

[Shaolinlueb]

but it seems like it has with all the new wushu crap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M91D7643ItM

so awful. you can see my comment on the bottom.

[golden arhat]

lol the saddest thing was that he adjusted his gi in the middle then carried on :rolleyes:

[MasterKiller]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA4Id_Sax4w

[Shaolinlueb]

lol the saddest thing was that he adjusted his gi in the middle then carried on :rolleyes:

yeah it was!!!


omg MK great find!! about 36 seconds in she does this awesome kick. dude i love her kicking.

[street_fighter]

if someone ever yelled anything like that at me when i was competing i would destroy them, and everything they ever loved. then again i think the chances of me competing in XMA are about the same as them ever being able to defend themselves.

[Shaolinlueb]

fawking hot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9SeRfxb_Iw

[Vash]

. . .

and I thought Isshinryu's Kusanku form was kinda flashy.

Someone, please assist me in plucking out my eyes. My teeth won't reach that far.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Thank God we have so many venues keeping it real today!! :D

[MasterKiller]

fawking hot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9SeRfxb_Iw

After all that and she can't kip without using hands...?:rolleyes:

[Shaolinlueb]

After all that and she can't kip without using hands...?:rolleyes:

i know. even my fat ass can do that!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Mediocrity breeds faster than excellence.

[GeneChing]

If you venture into the open circuits, it's all about the trickers. I don't think it's a bad thing personally. Everyone likes a little flash and dazzle. We have some trickers coming into the studio tomorrow for a Tiger Claw modeling shoot.

What's ironic about it is that the trickers steal a lot from wushu. Now, some are entering into the wushu rings, which is driving the wushu people crazy. It's parallel to how the traditionalists get all riled up when wushu competitors cross into their rings. We've had several issues with it in our Tiger Claw Elite Championship (http://www.tigerclawelite.com/). Given the weird state of modern wushu now, with nandu and all, this has become a complex problem.

So, if the trickers are lifting their moves from wushu, can you say that kung fu has gone "in this direction"?

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Looks like that are doing some bizzar flavor of gymnastics, where the dance segment has been replaced by power rangers wannabes.

[sanjuro_ronin]

What does Wu Shu mean again?

[Becca]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA4Id_Sax4w
Is it me or do her "shouts" sound more like cats getting thier tails stomped on? And The placement totally random.:eek:

That being said, those slow spins with one foot up my her head were very cool; no way in he!! I could pull that off.:)

[Shaolinlueb]

If you venture into the open circuits, it's all about the trickers. I don't think it's a bad thing personally. Everyone likes a little flash and dazzle. We have some trickers coming into the studio tomorrow for a Tiger Claw modeling shoot.

What's ironic about it is that the trickers steal a lot from wushu. Now, some are entering into the wushu rings, which is driving the wushu people crazy. It's parallel to how the traditionalists get all riled up when wushu competitors cross into their rings. We've had several issues with it in our Tiger Claw Elite Championship (http://www.tigerclawelite.com/). Given the weird state of modern wushu now, with nandu and all, this has become a complex problem.

So, if the trickers are lifting their moves from wushu, can you say that kung fu has gone "in this direction"?

i'm saying its ridiculous when the guys do it. but when the women do it, its hot!

seriously, i wish some of the kung fu guys would put the energy into their forms like the karate guys do. even though its a totally different energy, i see so many kung fu people just walking through their forms.

[Pork Chop]

shes hot and she could almost kick my butt. i like. ;)

oh man, you're not living that one down...never... :p

[David Jamieson]

just a bit of a screamy mcgee...

[firepalm]

The kid shown in the beginning of this thread is really not that good, this kid Matt Emig on the other hand I think has some serious skills within their genre of sport martial arts' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJEsctdPAgQ

Like their Wushu counterparts these kids are performers and athletes. The two girls shown in the links on this thread (Chloe Bruce & Gemma Nguyen), as well as Matt Emig and the boy shown in beginning, they all train for 'Open Forms & Open Weapons' (aka Extreme Martial Arts / XMA / Tricks) competition pure & simple. Whether or not it meets the expectations of traditional martial artists really isn't relevant for them, much the same way as it goes for Wushu competitors. These aspects of martial arts competitions have evolved & developed their own standards and expected skills sets for winning.

Do I think they can fight? Probably not but it doesn't matter as most of them are likely not in it for that purpose. On the flipside I would say a very large percentage of Kung Fu folk can't fight & most of these kids XMA & Wushu kids have three times the speed, agility and athleticism of the average Kung Fu folk.

My two bits........ :cool:

[David Jamieson]

To be fair, everyone can fight, just some aren't motivated to do so sportively or otherwise without reason.

fwiw imo it is a genre unto it's own and it's not relevant to sportive combative, self defense or leo/military techs.

[Shaolinlueb]

that matt kid, for what it was, was good. im not saying anyhting else. cause he can do stuff there i can not do. the kid has skill.

xma says they are sport martial artist. which is good. everyone thinks they can fight. they dont claim to be fighters.

[lkfmdc]

I believe the last few earthquakes that effected Japan were a direct result of generations of Okinawans rolling over in their graves in horror at this crap :rolleyes:

Any way you want to tie a ribbon on this, it's dung, the stink is there

[Shaolinlueb]

I believe the last few earthquakes that effected Japan were a direct result of generations of Okinawans rolling over in their graves in horror at this crap :rolleyes:

Any way you want to tie a ribbon on this, it's dung, the stink is there


but chicks with flexibility is :cool:

[sanjuro_ronin]

I believe the last few earthquakes that effected Japan were a direct result of generations of Okinawans rolling over in their graves in horror at this crap :rolleyes:

Any way you want to tie a ribbon on this, it's dung, the stink is there

Here, here.
Though there are some in okinawa that are just as bad, they have all but eliminated fighting from their schools.
Sad state of affairs.

[RonH]

With all the excessive spinning these people are doing, I hope they're doing it with an empty stomach. Or did they just OD on motion sickness pills? I couldn't even watch the 2nd one after a few seconds.

The first one suffers from a sever lack of a very basic training principle: learn how to move your uniform without using your hands. How many people here, when doing endurance training, has come upon the problem of cloth slippage, while holding a particular stance, raise your hands. It's happened to me. In a street fight or solo competition, do you really want to be adjusting your clothes when you've got more important issues to worry about? Come on. Even in solo competition, when performing a routine that you yourself are to have created, make the adjustment move sans hands part of the routine. A shoulder shrug or step out and move into a low stance, while you throw your arms down to your sides hard and at an angle, at the very least. It might not look that great, but at least you won't be known as 'the guy that adjusted his gi with his hands in the middle of his set'. We all remember that skip from the video not too long ago that actually had the use of kicking sand.

At this point in writing this post, I've even forgotten what the 3rd video was. I think it's the refinement of exaggerations that that's where KF started the downfall. I blame it on sport wushu and those other groups that started making kung fu a performance piece for the oooooos and aaaahhss.

[Scott R. Brown]

That being said, those slow spins with one foot up my her head were very cool; no way in he!! I could pull that off.:)

This is going to so weird and unbelievable I know, and I CAN'T prove this to anyone because I have no photographic proof, but not only could I do that when I was 20 years old (28 years ago) but I could do it standing ONLY on tip of my big toe.

I am not lying or exaggerating. (Not the spins on one toe, the leg up high on one toe, holding for time) The spins are easy though once you can do the leg.

[yutyeesam]

but it seems like it has with all the new wushu crap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M91D7643ItM

so awful. you can see my comment on the bottom.

I think this XMA fad is pretty much done, in that being all the rage. Things that tend to be all style with very little substance come and go really fast.

Kung-Fu's problem is not how will it blend with the XMA world. Kung-Fu's problem is how will it blend with the MMA world.

-123

[Becca]

I am not lying or exaggerating. (Not the spins on one toe, the leg up high on one toe, holding for time) The spins are easy though once you can do the leg.

I beleive you. I can spin on one foot with the other up, but my knee has to be bent and no higher than my waist. But up my the ear? I just don't bend that way.:o

[GeneChing]

For Kung fu to thrive, it needs to be more open minded on all levels. Most so-called traditionalists pooh pooh performance martial arts, which is really ironic. It shows a fundamental ignorance of our tradition. TCMA has had a connection to performance-based forms for centuries. Look at the jianghu, who performed on the streets. They did stunts and tricks, albeit not as sophisticated as we do now. Look even further back to the sword dances that were performed for the emperors. Sword dances are some of our earliest documentations of martial demonstrations.

To be open minded, we need to be open minded on all levels. We need to embrace MMA. We need to embrace trickers. That doesn't mean that we all need to do MMA or tricking, but it does mean that we shouldn't be critical. These trickers are out there doing there thing. That's fine. It's great entertainment. MMA is great entertainment too. Personally, that's how I view both of them. I'm neither an MMA practitioner (at least not in the current definition of the term) nor a tricker. I'm not going to bash others who chose that path. Some one has to go out an entertain the masses.

[B-Rad]

i hope kung fu doesnt go in this direction
but it seems like it has with all the new wushu crap.

If kungfu guys don't like forms competition, then don't compete. Whether you're doing gymnastics or not, either way you're getting a subjective score based on performance rather than fighting. Forms competition and performing is fun, but it's not the goal for most anyone in kungfu for the long term. Even a lot of wushu guys go back to traditional when they're older.

Judges also need to have good eyes and not reward things like back flips or acrobatics in traditional divisions. I don't think there's anything wrong with throwing in a back flip or something if the rest of the form is good technique, but I don't think there should be extra points offsetting bad technique. If it's something like musical extreme martial arts katas, who cares? It's purely entertainment.

Kungfu guys have been doing tricks for years... look at Wah Lum and the LKH CLF schools. Or that mantis chain whip video with the aerial and butt hopping. Or even old pictures I've seen of kungfu guys doing spear against throat "qigong" tricks, sword swallowing, or lion dancing ;) I don't really think it's hurt anything. I have a much easier time finding good kungfu now days than I did 10 years ago, despite the popularity of XMA and the nandu changes emphasis in today's modern wushu competition.

[lkfmdc]

We need to embrace MMA.



Unfortunately Gene, out of your whole post, that was the only statement I actually agreed with...

Has TCMA always been associated with perfromance? YES, of course it has. It has also always been associated with cheap magic tricks, deception, fraud and cons. IE just because something is part of the tradition doesn't mean we should automatically embrace it as positive

Speaking as a disciple of someone who DID make a living performing on the street (ie CTS), I can tell you pretty much all the things they did were "tricks" (ie no functional martial application) and they lived off the ignorance of their audience , who despite being CHinese knew as much about TCMA as the average American does today

It's like catch wrestling, which has a legit, real, applicable side, it also has it's association with pro wrestling, gimmicks, fake matches and fake techiques. To keep the real art alive, they have to DISassociate

[Pork Chop]

Has TCMA always been associated with perfromance? YES, of course it has. It has also always been associated with cheap magic tricks, deception, fraud and cons. IE just because something is part of the tradition doesn't mean we should automatically embrace it as positive
...


nice post.

[Lucas]

IMO complaining about XMA or modern wushu guys not being traditional and doing fighting app training is the same thing as complaining that pro NFL players arent actually locked in melee warfare with swords, axes, and the like.

NFL is a simulation of a warfield, played by athletes who are pretending to be on a battlefield in a high stress, extreme athletic invironment.

same as wushu guys. its all fake, but at the same time requires specific skill sets that take many, MANY years to aquire and master.

you dont have to like football, i dont, but im not going to diss them for what they do.

[Shaolinlueb]

american football is for pussies you should play rugby instead.

someone posted earlier these guys move with more speed, agility, and power then most traditional KF guys. which i totally agree with. too many people cling onto kung fu and its mystical powers. there is nothing mystical about it, its all training. kung fu has a lot of performance in it.
i guess i found it funny that he stopped to adjust his uniform and walk over to the corner to do a flip. doesnt make much sense and the form didnt flow well in my opinion.

plus lucas, how many traditional guys do you know can use applications in a fight? most of them freeze and try to think of soemthing or it doesnt work. everyone seems to rely on the kick boxing mma stuff. which isnt bad, it works.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Most baton majorettes (or whatever you call them) can put on a far greater show than any TMA that is skilled, combat-wise, with sticks or a bo/jo.

MA is one thing, performance arts are another, last time I checked the "wu" in wu shu didn't mean performance.

[Shaolinlueb]

Most baton majorettes (or whatever you call them) can put on a far greater show than any TMA that is skilled, combat-wise, with sticks or a bo/jo.

MA is one thing, performance arts are another, last time I checked the "wu" in wu shu didn't mean performance.


god i ant to reply with soemthing whitty and annoying right now but i cant think of anything.

[sanjuro_ronin]

god i ant to reply with soemthing whitty and annoying right now but i cant think of anything.

maybe something like, "a baton isn't the only thing a majorette can handle"...

[Shaolinlueb]

maybe something like, "a baton isn't the only thing a majorette can handle"...


a staff isnt the only thing a shaolin monk can handle!!!

[sanjuro_ronin]

a staff isnt the only thing a shaolin monk can handle!!!

ZING ! with a rimshot !

[Pork Chop]

someone posted earlier these guys move with more speed, agility, and power then most traditional KF guys. ..

agree with everything except the power.
I don't think i'd consider anything they do powerful except for the jumping.

[firepalm]

Looks like traditional is already going this direction....

Wah Lum, sure don't look traditional to me?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtTjzkKCYVY

Jimmy Wong's Chin Woo kids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJSENl05-j8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxRcnQpXVYg

Personally I see nothing wrong with it, however as long as people aren't sold on this making them better fighters.


Kung-Fu's problem is not how will it blend with the XMA world. Kung-Fu's problem is how will it blend with the MMA world.


Personally I would say it's more a case of how Kung Fu will keep itself relevant in today's world & not necessarily attempting to fit a mold determined by other martial arts.

Others may not concur but I think one of the greatest things about Chinese Martial Arts is the diversity & that's where things like the Wushu & such remain relevant.

My two bits...

[GeneChing]

...the bottom line is not everyone is a fighter, at least not in the narrow definition you put forth. Sure, there's charlatanism in our tradition. There's charlatanism in both of our lineages. Your indignity at something your own master did is notable. That's really not the point (or perhaps a separate point). There's a lot of people who bandy about the notion of 'real' martial arts as just being fighting, just being what's going on in MMA. There are many people on this forum that state that they are only fighters. That's fine. But don't discourage others from their personal practices. When I used to teach, I taught children, elderly and physically-challenged students. I taught cancer patients and at least one AIDS patient. Did I teach them to street fight? Not really. I just gave them exercise, which is all they really needed. If we limit our definition of martial arts to hardcore fighters alone, we'd probably eject 90% of the practitioners in America, maybe more. As it stands, the martial arts economy is so weak that it can barely afford to support what few resources we have. Plain and simple, we need more practitioners. We can't always have the very best fighters. We'll take the beginners, the mediocre, the novices. Everyone has to start somewhere. To raise the apex of our pyramid, we need a bigger base. The people that are always putting down other arts, those are who would kill our tradition. It's some sort of weird self loathing. To survive, it's all about diversity.

But from my perspective, I have no fear of tradition dying off. TCMA is as strong as ever. You just got to know where to look.

[lkfmdc]

:rolleyes:




...the bottom line is not everyone is a fighter,



I have well over 200 students right now (closer to 300). About 12 of them actually "fight". So do the math

But all of them at least do martial arts and not cirucs stunts or gymnasitcs under the guise of martial arts




at least not in the narrow definition you put forth.



MY definition isn't the least narrow, it's just precise. There's nothing wrong with raquet ball, but it isn't martial arts. Whatever those people are doing, it isn't martial arts. To try and portray it as such is dishonest

sort of like dressing up wushu palyers in robes and calling them shaolin monks :rolleyes:




But don't discourage others from their personal practices.



So, if someone wants to do "chi healng" and is passing themselves off as a real medical professional, we shouldn't discourage their "personal practices"?

If you want to teach gymnastics with some kicks and screams thrown in, call it gymnastics, don't call it "martial arts" because it has NONE of the qualities of martial arts

At least new age Tai Chi presents itself as a health practice and not a fighting art.





If we limit our definition of martial arts to hardcore fighters alone, we'd probably eject 90% of the practitioners in America, maybe more.



straw man, meet Gene. Gene, meet straw man. We aren't limiting the practice of martial arts to an elite 10%, we're just expecting so called "martial arts teachers" to, GASP!, actually teach martial arts :rolleyes:




As it stands, the martial arts economy is so weak that it can barely afford to support what few resources we have.



preposterous (spelling?)! Economically combat sports are raking in the cash, and many martial arts schools are doing really well. My school made $10,000 in 10 days in September.... but that's just off an elite 10% who wants to fight professional MMA (insert sarcasm here)




But from my perspective, I have no fear of tradition dying off. TCMA is as strong as ever. You just got to know where to look.



What do we expect the editor of a CMA based magazine to say on a public forum :confused:

Oh well, time to post "shaolin taco" (tm) pics on my space, see you later

[GeneChing]

Actually, circus skills have a longstanding relationship with martial arts too. :p

But I hear you. We all hear you. Lord knows, you've said it over and over. You don't like anything but fighters. That's cool. The trickers are defining themselves as martial artists and the general public is defining them as martial artists. Perhaps you should rethink that precision. I don't think the trickers are being dishonest. They may have a different world view than you, but so do a lot of people. Dishonesty is the real straw man here. Or perhaps it's just a matter of perspective. In terms of passing someone off as a 'true master', the real issue is how that is defined. You had the advantage of training under a remarkable master. Not everyone had that opportunity. It raised your standards of a true master to a level that many can't achieve. I have no issue with that at all. What I do have issue with is you berated others for not having that opportunity. It's like saying "I trained under Agassi. That's real tennis. The rest of you are fake because you're not at my level" (I would have made this a racquetball analogy, but I don't know any famous racquetball players). Anyway, a lot of people just like to play tennis. They may practice at some small court somewhere, taking lessons from a nameless pro. It's grassroots. It may be mediocre, but it's still a practice. The same goes for martial arts. So someone is a tricker. There's more skill there than in most people's practice. And no tricker stays a tricker for too long. They eventually quit or make the shift into coaching.

MMA makes money for MMA alone. It makes money for the promoters and a few of the top fighters. But it doesn't generate money for the overall economy of martial arts. I'm glad your school is doing well. But I'd venture to say (and you might even agree) that your school is exceptional.

Do you really think all TCMA is dead? I doubt that. If you did, you'd have failed to have honored your master, and you seem like one of the last people to do that. Anyone who thinks that TCMA is dying need only say "TCMA lives on through me". Then there's no one to blame.

Ahh, it's good to have a little debate with you, lkfmdc. I've always appreciated your sense of humor. ;)

[lkfmdc]

But I hear you. We all hear you. Lord knows, you've said it over and over. You don't like anything but fighters.



Then you haven't really been listening. I have plenty of normal people, even grandmothers in class....




You had the advantage of training under a remarkable master. Not everyone had that opportunity. It raised your standards of a true master to a level that many can't achieve.



I don't hold anyone to my teacher's standards, and in fact, if you every read anything about him, I'm more than a little critical about a lot of aspects of him. In fact, I hold him up as an example of the "mixed bag" of CMA





Anyway, a lot of people just like to play tennis. They may practice at some small court somewhere, taking lessons from a nameless pro. It's grassroots. It may be mediocre, but it's still a practice.



Ah, but that is exactly the point. Tennis at any level is fine, but if I show up with a baseball bat and a football and have you wear a ballet too-too and call it tennis? :mad:





Do you really think all TCMA is dead? I doubt that.


I believe that increasingly what is being practiced in the name of CMA has lost connection with what it was originally, and not that evolution is bad, lords knows I am all for evolution, but I think it's ceased to be CMA, it's more C-LARP




Ahh, it's good to have a little debate with you, lkfmdc. I've always appreciated your sense of humor. ;)



well, have to wait until I get on the other computer to do photoshop but I'll be sure to cook something up :D

[Shaolinlueb]

i like jimmy wong and his students are good kids.
personally i have always like the performing part of kung fu. i have just recently gotten back into the fighting part. i mean seriously, when are you ever going to use the fighting?

[MasterKiller]

. i mean seriously, when are you ever going to use the fighting?

If you step into the cage, you'll have plenty of opportunity.

[Becca]

I have to say, I think what one chooses to teach inside their own school is their own business. And it is also their own business what they choose to call it, how they came up with it, ect... That's not to say they aren't open to criticism if they take their stuff out into public. But think of it this way: If they are getting John Q. Public to pay attention, it might be more beneficial to be there to catch those disillusioned by the charlatans that to spend all energy bashing the charlatans. Those who had bad experiences will be more likely to walk in your door if they are not getting a deluge of negative energy from you.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I have to say, I think what one chooses to teach inside their own school is their own business. And it is also their own business what they choose to call it, how they came up with it, ect... That's not to say they aren't open to criticism if they take their stuff out into public. But think of it this way: If they are getting John Q. Public to pay attention, it might be more beneficial to be there to catch those disillusioned by the charlatans that to spend all energy bashing the charlatans. Those who had bad experiences will be more likely to walk in your door if they are not getting a deluge of negative energy from you.

Buyer beware eh?

[Shaolinlueb]

If you step into the cage, you'll have plenty of opportunity.


the only cage i enter is the kumita, but those are hidden tournaments only the best fighters know about. so you have to trust me when i tell you i win.

[Becca]

Buyer beware eh?It's called capitalism. It ain't perfect, but it tends to work a bit better than strict regulation when the industry is artistic based and harder to set uniform standards for. A wise honest school or gym owner would capitalize on less savory schools’ drop-outs. They’ve already seen the bad and will know what they are getting. But after however long of bad teaching/bad atmosphere, the last thing they are going to do is be receptive to a negatively talking owner/instructor of a school they are considering…

[GeneChing]

Tradition should always be venerated because it's been there and done that, but it's a term that most martial artists bandy about ignorantly. It's used to bash others, either as being inauthentic or obsolete. The truth is that the value of traditional lies within its archived experience. People get all worked up about Cosplay and LARPers, which is a bit of red herring here since we started discussing trickers (trickers have kung fu in the literal sense - it may not be 'martial' but it's definitely 'skill acquired by hard work over time' - cosplay and larpers just know where to shop (http://www.martialartsmart.net/16-01xxs.html) :p). I suppose they both have their performance aspect, so we'll address them both. When I say performance has been with our tradition for centuries, I don't intend to assign a positive or negative message there. It's more of an observation. There are always people who will take either side of the argument and logically, there have always been. It's totally akin to the latest MMA debates. MMA has been with us forever too. It's just never been promoted to the level it is now, probably because the media wasn't available (and partially due to the cultural climate in our country now - that's actually the biggest issue I have with MMA, but that's totally OT here). We're all familiar with lkfmdc's stance on what he deems isn't real.

Has TCMA always been associated with perfromance? YES, of course it has. It has also always been associated with cheap magic tricks, deception, fraud and cons. IE just because something is part of the tradition doesn't mean we should automatically embrace it as positive

Speaking as a disciple of someone who DID make a living performing on the street (ie CTS), I can tell you pretty much all the things they did were "tricks" (ie no functional martial application) and they lived off the ignorance of their audience , who despite being CHinese knew as much about TCMA as the average American does today
Many of us share this opinion. But think about it. If our martial forefathers lived with this for centuries, even participated in it, why should it end now? We can ***** all we like on the forum about trickers, larpers and cosplay, but the reality is that they view themselves as part of the martial community and the rest of the world views them as part of the martial community. Who are we to say they aren't? And to what end? Do you really think you can put an end to everything you don't perceive as real? Our forefathers couldn't. You can talk all you want about this being the age of science, but the science is really media manipulation of the public perception. We can warn the rookies, say, 'do it my way, I got the real stuff, that other guy is fake,' but the fakes will say the same thing, and it gets very confusing for beginners. They really need to find their own way. I'd be worried if I was an 'authentic' school owner and a cosplay school opened up across the street and stole all my students. It's the indignity of the position - the personal offense that many take at those they perceive as not to be practicing the real stuff. Why even bother to compare? It'll just give you indigestion. To quote Henry David Thoreau "We will be rich in proportion to the number of things we can afford to let alone."

What CMA really needs now is diversity. It's that diversity that will guarantee it's survival. I firmly support CMA people going into MMA. I support CMA people tricking and dressing up (well, that's mostly because our company sells uniforms, but we won't dwell on that :o). I support all CMA. It's how I make my living. I'm a professional CMA supporter. :confused:

Alright, Dave, I'm ready for my cooked up photoshop close up now. :D

[bodhitree]

how I make my living. I'm a professional CMA supporter.

Official Shaolin Taco Time not doing so well? You're so industrious!

[sanjuro_ronin]

I think that, people with a cultural "stake" in MA, any MA, will be more accepting of things "non-martial" in a system than those of us that feel the MA is Martial first and anything else second.

[MasterKiller]

I'm a professional CMA supporter. :confused: As opposed to LKFMDC, who as a fighter coach is a professional athletic supporter. :D

[golden arhat]

american football is for pussies you should play rugby instead.



truer words have never been spoken

[sanjuro_ronin]

As opposed to LKFMDC, who as a fighter coach is a professional athletic supporter. :D

he gets paid to be a jock strap ??

:eek:

[lkfmdc]

But think about it. If our martial forefathers lived with this for centuries, even participated in it, why should it end now?



Things our foretathers lives with, even participated in

1. Witch trials
2. The crusades
3. The inquisition
4. Calling Capurnicus and Gallelo heretics for saying the sun is the center of the universe (may have spelled names wrong, sure you know who they are though)
5. Infanticide
6. Female circumcision

This is, regretably, just a short list of the nasty things that previous generations accepted, participated in and even supported as "correct"

[sanjuro_ronin]

Things our foretathers lives with, even participated in

1. Witch trials
2. The crusades
3. The inquisition
4. Calling Capurnicus and Gallelo heretics for saying the sun is the center of the universe (may have spelled names wrong, sure you know who they are though)
5. Infanticide
6. Female circumcision

This is, regretably, just a short list of the nasty things that previous generations accepted, participated in and even supported as "correct"

Don't forget the orgies filled with debachery, sex and organic food !
**** Caligula DVD.

[GeneChing]

I'd say most of those things are still with us, except maybe the Copernicus and Galileo heretics. Then again... (http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm). Still, it's a bit excessive to compare a CMA Cosplayer to female circumcision. The funny thing is that I've been batting around the idea of doing a feature on Cosplay (http://vggtsworld.ta-host.com/pictures/sf/cammy_cosplay.jpg). I'm totally serious. It may be hard not to digress into furries, but I'll try to restrain myself :D

Funny thing about Shaolin Taco Time - I remember this old woman who used to sell these pseudo-burrito-like things out of these double oil cans she had slung over a wooden yoke and carried about town. The tortilla was more like those mushu pancakes but way bigger and freshly handmade. She had those in one oil can and in the other, there was minced mystery meat (I'm guessing badger) vegetables and a mess of those fiery indigenous peppers they eat at Shaolin, freaking firebombs in the shape of tiny innocent green balls. Anyway, I wouldn't want to cut in on that old lady's burrito business with my tacos. However, no one has brought nachos to Shaolin yet, so perhaps I still have a calling...

[Lucas]

Things our foretathers lives with, even participated in

1. Witch trials
2. The crusades
3. The inquisition
4. Calling Capurnicus and Gallelo heretics for saying the sun is the center of the universe (may have spelled names wrong, sure you know who they are though)
5. Infanticide
6. Female circumcision

This is, regretably, just a short list of the nasty things that previous generations accepted, participated in and even supported as "correct"

yet these all infringe on basic human rights. apples and oranges IMO.

i am sure i could name a list of things most posters on this board to on a regular basis, simply because its what they grew up doing, IE: tradition, that would be a serious waste of time and effort, yet we all still do them.

anyone enjoy the entertainment industry to any degree at all? stop it, you dont need to, and its a waste of your time.

same deal, where one man bags on another man for what he percieves and obsolete or un needed, he in turn i am sure would have similar skeletons in his own closet.

live and let be i say. people can HARP all they want, but who really wants to be a HARPER? well, maybe some of you do.....;)

[lkfmdc]

yet these all infringe on basic human rights. apples and oranges IMO.



I just chose the most glaring examples of things that used to be accepted, ie that our forefathers did, that OBVIOUSLY we chose not to just do just for the sake of "tradition"




i am sure i could name a list of things most posters on this board to on a regular basis, simply because its what they grew up doing, IE: tradition, that would be a serious waste of time and effort, yet we all still do them.



ah, but if you become aware of the, aware they are wastes of time and effort, yet consciously chose to still do them, isn't that sick?

[Lucas]

sure i suppose.

you ever watch tv. movies. eat junk food, have non procrational sexual interaction.
drive a car, have a pet, look at girls....

i would wager to say a healthy percentage of things we do for entertainment on any level are not needed.


so in a way, yes we are all very very sick:p

[lkfmdc]

but, you see, if I set up a "kung fu school" and lesson #1 involves lotion and my right palm, am I just "doing my thing" or am I ripping someone off?

[GeneChing]

And don't run your hand under the stall wall either, lotioned or not :eek:

Your photoshopped tacos cannot withstand my C (http://members.aye.net/~gharris/blog/cosplay_img002.jpg)o (http://otaku.lv/uploads/20050702_982_cosplay_00019.jpg)s (http://www.geekonstun.com/images/elena_cosplay_do.jpg)p (http://pr4y.free.fr/images/cosplay_kb0.jpg)l (http://www.satyrnet.it/yugioh/FAQ_CM_cosplay_1.jpg)a (http://ponchorama.com/images/cosplay.jpg)y (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ziggyb/15386931/) Fu (http://61.159.224.198/game/pic/200310/1415322201_05b.jpg)!!!:p

[Lucas]

And don't run your hand under the stall wall either, lotioned or not :eek:

Your photoshopped tacos cannot withstand my C (http://members.aye.net/~gharris/blog/cosplay_img002.jpg)o (http://otaku.lv/uploads/20050702_982_cosplay_00019.jpg)s (http://www.geekonstun.com/images/elena_cosplay_do.jpg)p (http://pr4y.free.fr/images/cosplay_kb0.jpg)l (http://www.satyrnet.it/yugioh/FAQ_CM_cosplay_1.jpg)a (http://ponchorama.com/images/cosplay.jpg)y (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ziggyb/15386931/) Fu (http://61.159.224.198/game/pic/200310/1415322201_05b.jpg)!!!:p

Gene is officiall the master of LinkFu...

i bow down

[GeneChing]

...research to my upcoming cosplay feature article :cool:

[Lucas]

...research to my upcoming cosplay feature article :cool:

so is "research" what all the kids are calling that these days?

[GeneChing]

...please pass the lotion. I'm a bit...errr...chapped (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photobyalex/201765387/). :o

[Shaolinlueb]

3. The inquisition


you never saw history of the world part 1. that was a fine time in history. pools, dancing. ;)

[Shaolin Wookie]

6. Female circumcision


What about Male circumcision? Sure, most of us are, but can you imagine the first circumcision, in Biblical terms?

Abraham was in his thrities or forties or so, and suddenly god tells him he needs to cut off the skin over the wrinkly part of his *****, and those of his brothers, family, and friends, as well, in order to have a covenant with god. So Abraham waltzes up to his brother and is like:

Abraham: "Hey, dude, I talked to God last night."
Brother: "Oh, yeah? What'd he say?"
Abraham: "Well, we're going to be the progenitors of a long, fine, godly tradition."
Brother: "That sounds friggin' awesome."
Abraham: "Yeah, it's sweet, isn't it?"
Brother: "So, what do we have to do?"
Abraham: "We just have to cut off the skin over the wrinkly parts of our nads."
Brother: "I knew it. I just knew there was something wierd about the skin over that wrinkly part of my ****. I only have one question: where's the knife?"

(Abraham pulls out a rusty machete, his lucky machete, and slaps it on the table)

Three hours later, and three hundred circumcisions later, and Abraham is the least popular man in Israel. The men lie around and moan for weeks while the women laugh their asses off:

Brother: "Hey, Abe....(ouch)"
Abraham: "Owwwwww......what?"
Brother: "You're a ****ing *******....."

[Su Lin]

I know it's going back a couple of pages but bear with me! Chloe Bruce was on some bad tv talent show over here a couple of months ago doing her flashy kicks and spins and that.She didn't win.;)

[Shaolin Wookie]

And don't run your hand under the stall wall either, lotioned or not :eek:

Your photoshopped tacos cannot withstand my C (http://members.aye.net/~gharris/blog/cosplay_img002.jpg)o (http://otaku.lv/uploads/20050702_982_cosplay_00019.jpg)s (http://www.geekonstun.com/images/elena_cosplay_do.jpg)p (http://pr4y.free.fr/images/cosplay_kb0.jpg)l (http://www.satyrnet.it/yugioh/FAQ_CM_cosplay_1.jpg)a (http://ponchorama.com/images/cosplay.jpg)y (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ziggyb/15386931/) Fu (http://61.159.224.198/game/pic/200310/1415322201_05b.jpg)!!!:p

I knew this was you. Being in on the MAMart game does have it's perks.......

http://www.martialartsmart.net/16-01xxs.html

[Shaolinlueb]

I know it's going back a couple of pages but bear with me! Chloe Bruce was on some bad tv talent show over here a couple of months ago doing her flashy kicks and spins and that.She didn't win.;)

SAY IT ISNT SO!!! is the show america has talent? i saw some xma guys do a thing on it too. it was god awful, but apperently they were making money doing it. :rolleyes: at that.

[GeneChing]

That is not me. Believe it or not, I've not modeled for the ninja. I been the monk, and a few other odd things, but not the ninja. At least I don't think I have...:confused: Anyway, I would know to tuck my sleeves into my forearm covers. :eek:

[MasterKiller]

My favorite is Samurai Gene.

http://www.martialartsmart.net/95-054koy.html

[Becca]

but, you see, if I set up a "kung fu school" and lesson #1 involves lotion and my right palm, am I just "doing my thing" or am I ripping someone off?That would depend on the student's constitution.:D