Reality check on knives

[planetwc]

Interesting short clip from Human Weapon on Knives vs Ring Fighting skills.
Would be even worse if you don't know the guy is concealing the weapon till he sticks you.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pNjvFuqpWNE

[couch]

Interesting short clip from Human Weapon on Knives vs Ring Fighting skills.
Would be even worse if you don't know the guy is concealing the weapon till he sticks you.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pNjvFuqpWNE

It has nothing to do with Ring vs. Street or Ring vs. Knife.

It has to do with one thing: If he's got a knife, you're prolly gonna eat some.

Best,
Kenton Sefcik

[namron]

Interesting short clip from Human Weapon on Knives vs Ring Fighting skills.
Would be even worse if you don't know the guy is concealing the weapon till he sticks you.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pNjvFuqpWNE

dog brothers have similar examples of TMA defences against knives with similar results.

Worth a watch if your looking at what may and may not work

For the most part though I take a ticket and fall in line behind couch, fists are made to hurt knives are made to kill.

[AmanuJRY]

Would be even worse if you don't know the guy is concealing the weapon till he sticks you.

In the episode on U.S. Marines MA training they do a course where, in one encounter, an opponent pulls a concealed knife while the Jason is on the ground, dives on him and starts stabbing...several to the head and body before it's stopped...he never saw the knife.

[Knifefighter]

Interesting short clip from Human Weapon on Knives vs Ring Fighting skills.
Would be even worse if you don't know the guy is concealing the weapon till he sticks you.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pNjvFuqpWNE

Those KM guys were just as clueless about knife defense as the MMA guy was.

[Wayfaring]

Hey Dale,

What are some good resources for knife training?

[Knifefighter]

Training to use the knife or training to defend it when unarmed?

[monji112000]

Those KM guys were just as clueless about knife defense as the MMA guy was.

pretty much every military teaches the same stuff. It changes in phases as the civilian MA world changes. I said it before and I will say it again, Krav Maga/kapap whatever .. is much better when you learn it in the IDF. the h2h combat is basically MT and BJJ . Less BJJ but since the US as added BJJ other countries are following slowly. The defense postures are different sometimes.. but its really not about technique its more about training.

Who is less clueless about knife fighting? the only people who aren't are the ones smart enough to know you are going to get cut.

FMA has some nice attacking stuff for the knife but as far as defense goes....

Allot of cultures have decent knife fighting skills. even CMA.. but its not the crap you see at the local *ga lay fut kune do school.

[Knifefighter]

FMA has some nice attacking stuff for the knife but as far as defense goes....

STAB, Red Zone, and Die Less Often are probably some of the best programs for unarmed vs. blade.

[Wayfaring]

STAB, Red Zone, and Die Less Often are probably some of the best programs for unarmed vs. blade.

What about blade on blade? Philippino stuff?

[planetwc]

What about the Sayoc system?


What about blade on blade? Philippino stuff?

[jesper]

pretty much every military teaches the same stuff. It changes in phases as the civilian MA world changes. I said it before and I will say it again, Krav Maga/kapap whatever .. is much better when you learn it in the IDF. the h2h combat is basically MT and BJJ . Less BJJ but since the US as added BJJ other countries are following slowly. The defense postures are different sometimes.. but its really not about technique its more about training.

Who is less clueless about knife fighting? the only people who aren't are the ones smart enough to know you are going to get cut.

FMA has some nice attacking stuff for the knife but as far as defense goes....

Allot of cultures have decent knife fighting skills. even CMA.. but its not the crap you see at the local *ga lay fut kune do school.


Just a quick note. Dont join the military if you expect to become expert at h2h. Most modern armies pay very little tribute to h2h as there are many more usefull things a soldier needs to learn.
Those soldiers you encounter which are good at h2h are either certified instructors or has picked up their skills off base.

[Mr Punch]

Just a quick note. Dont join the military if you expect to become expert at h2h. Gee, thanks. Does anyone ever join the military because they want to become an expert on H2H?

[jesper]

:)
wasnt my point, I was responding to the thread about IDF having much better krav manga teaching. Poorly worded perhaps

[donbdc]

I took arnis few a few years to feel more comfortable w/ knife attacks. One of my teachers quotes will always stay w/ me. "The loser of a knife fight dies on the street and the winner dies in the ambulance on the way to the hospital."
kinda pessimistic fella. Any way his point was you are going to get cut and most likely not going to feel any more than a punch. Get control of the knife hand, use a shoe a belt whatever.
Cass Magda's Silat and Kali instruction was probably the best training I had w/ knife and stick. A little more intense and combat oriented than my Arnis instructors. He always said take control of the knife hand and become the driver. If you get a chance to attend any of his workshops you should, especially for Wing Chunners. Very similiar entries: Pock Da stuff
Cheers
Don

[k gledhill]

The VT systems prime thought is fighting someone who is or may be armed , why we adopt a tactical approach to not fight standing in front of two wailing arms one of which could have a screwdriver, broken glass, razor blade, knife. Isolating the offside hand eliminates its ability to attack you by constantly maneuvering offside... The distances and footwork used change from bare hands to blades...so we have 2 footwork patterns in 1 system , each pattern allowing a strike parry in ONE BEAT knives have the ONE CUT /BEAT [ bare hands taught first to avoid confusion]... knives adopt a wider triangulation, flanking, with increased distances allowing for the length of the knife/s [2] ... our aims are for cutting the forearms and holding the cutting line parries to follow up with neck cut or disembowling slice then retreat to safe distances [ a dying man always has a last attack] .
From experience of searching guys for a living in nightclubs , at least 20 knives would be 'found' the rest you will know a knife is present when you see blood during and after , you will be slipping on it like ice ...guys will be bleeding inside but dont know it until someone tells them the back of their shirt is all red ...1/2 a lung full of blood later your in hospital...
...guys will 'wet' you just for the violent internal need to mutilate you not kill you [ crazy], so you might face a guy wailing on you with a knife but not know it until he slaies your face /chest/ arm in one cut ...primary things in a weapon face off are distance maintain distnces in your control and adopt tactical moves to stay away from a grab n stab/slash we can use lopao tok [elbow] to control this ...lop is a controlling hand from bil gee whereby you need to grab and not let go to trade strikes/cuts then destroy the guys knee instep aka maim them ...bil gee also shows inside ede forearm bone arm strikes , an action attacking the arm intent on striking you affording you the bonus of distance without losing a weapon and to 'at least' attack the hand coming at you, AND maneuvering at greater distances to minimize the percentage of facing 2 arms with one edged...or even 2 like we would face ourselves .

[jet64]

What about blade on blade? Philippino stuff?

Theres a lot of H2h and weapons training here in manila. You guys should visit here.

[Knifefighter]

Cass Magda's Silat and Kali instruction was probably the best training I had w/ knife and stick.

I haven't seen Cass in a long time, but I've fought some of his guys over the years. He turns out quality fighters.

We used to go clubbing back in the day. Whatever his MA skills, they were nothing compared to his abilities with women. That guy was a friggin' chick magnet.

[donbdc]

Here is a Cass school my friend Trains at. By the way he misses CRCA wing chun and trains w/ me when he comes home for visits www.youtube.com/aseama1.
Its a good clip, and I enjoy trainig w/ it, but I'll stick w/ my blah blah blah:D
Take care
Don

[Knifefighter]

Here is a Cass school my friend Trains at. By the way he misses CRCA wing chun and trains w/ me when he comes home for visits www.youtube.com/aseama1.
Its a good clip, and I enjoy trainig w/ it, but I'll stick w/ my blah blah blah:D
Take care
Don

That wasn't Cass.

[donbdc]

Correct,
One of his students schoolsa abou 20 miles away from his school.
I can't remember his name. He brings them out when he comes here to train.

[WoodenYummy]

I studied Modern Arnis knife fighting, and I agree with the earlier post... If someone has a knife and you don't, RUN. That is the most logical defense in my mind, on the other hand if you have a knife, and know how to use it... well thats different, but again, realize this won't end like a fist fight, theres a good chance its going to end one of your lives... So again, running sounds like the best defense. It doesn't matter how tough you look when you're dead!

[Knifefighter]

I studied Modern Arnis knife fighting, and I agree with the earlier post... If someone has a knife and you don't, RUN. That is the most logical defense in my mind, on the other hand if you have a knife, and know how to use it... well thats different, but again, realize this won't end like a fist fight, theres a good chance its going to end one of your lives... So again, running sounds like the best defense. It doesn't matter how tough you look when you're dead!

Normally when faced with a knife, you cant' just run. People who want to cut you usually aren't stupid enough to pull it out and wave it around, giving you a chance to run away. Knife assaults usually involve someone having a knife already out and striking you (many times, it just looks like a punch) or holding on to your clothing and/or jamming you up against a wall or other fixed object.

Nine times out of ten, people who get stabbed didn't even realize that was what was happening. Someone who takes a true self-defense approach to martial arts would be wise to assume every street encounter involves a knife.

[jet64]

Normally when faced with a knife, you cant' just run. People who want to cut you usually aren't stupid enough to pull it out and wave it around, giving you a chance to run away. Knife assaults usually involve someone having a knife already out and striking you (many times, it just looks like a punch) or holding on to your clothing and/or jamming you up against a wall or other fixed object.

Nine times out of ten, people who get stabbed didn't even realize that was what was happening. Someone who takes a true self-defense approach to martial arts would be wise to assume every street encounter involves a knife.

That is why its very important to practice stances and fighting distance for defense. Then handspeed and power to disable the opponent.

[Knifefighter]

That is why its very important to practice stances and fighting distance for defense. Then handspeed and power to disable the opponent.

Disabling an opponent with a knife with power and handspeed? Welcome to the morgue.

[jet64]

Disabling an opponent with a knife with power and handspeed? Welcome to the morgue.


provided you master fighting distance, yes you can disable them. if you have no idea how to do it then your reply is good enough for you.

[WinterPalm]

Knife attacks can happen in a variety of ways. Indeed, some will be the grab, clinch, and sewing machine stab.
I would say that has more to do with intent: intent to kill you for the sake of killing you. Other times...a knife is produced as part of a mugging. In which case it is brandished to incite fear.
Here's two stories:

Way back before kung fu, myself and two friends were mugged while sitting on the curb. The one guy pulled out a knife and was waving it around and then stabbed my friend in the back puncturing a lung. I, on the other hand, took a steel bar full force to the knee and then blocked the one to the head with my forearm and somehow didn't break my bone! (Maybe I was born with sam sing in me!:D)

The other story is from a co-worker last week:
As a security he was persuing a fellow out the doors when the man fell down and started to crawl away...as my buddy got closer the man turned, and from his knees, swung, in a huge arc, a long kitchen knife. Then another security fellow got involved with him, and he did one of those great straight up and down chopswith the knife sticking out the bottom of his fist, like a hammer fist, and just scraped the security guy's shoulder.

These are two attacks many suggest don't happen or aren't likely...the big arc and the hammerfist stab...but they did and they do happen.
With adrenaline going people resort to the most damaging types of attacks...hayamker, big sweeping stabs, and the running tackle. Would I bet my life on it? No! But a good skilled knifefighter on the street is not as common as some would think.

[k gledhill]

thankyou...adrenalin changes a lot of crap being trained in gyms....guys get gorilla death grips on knives 5 holding him down 2 trying to take the knife away...hes fighting for his life , so are you ..the body and adrenalin :D haymakers are common due to the adrenalin making your arms extend to the max , same for shooting under stress ...why VT works so well in stress it doing what adrenalin would make it do otherwise...:D only with focus and a 900lb leg force behind it ;)