Anyone take modern day defensive courses

[xcakid]

Let's face it, no one walks around with bo staffs, kwan dao, geems anymore. Assailants now carry guns and knives. Civil unrest can happen at anytime. Los Angeles, Paris France are only a few example of modern day unrest in a populated area. This can spawn mob like groups.

I have always said that martial arts have gotten stagnant in it concepts and weapons training. Although great for conditioning, historical aspect and overall awareness. Weapons training in martial arts is out dated. Arnis/Kali may be one of the MA that teaches weapons more to todays actual street application.

Although, I am a traditionalist. I do recognize the fact that martial arts is severely lacking in one aspect. Its weapons training. So I take Arnis/Kali and supplement that with tactical firearms training. As well as compete in shooting comps whenever money situations permit. I have taken courses with the following outfits, they are worth checking out.
Tactical Firearms Training Team (http://www.tftt.com/)
Tiger Valley (http://www.tigervalley.com/)
ThunderRanch (http://www.thunderranchinc.com/courses.html)

I am planning to, and saving up for some courses with this outfit:
MAST (http://www.mastsolutions.com/training.html)
This group seems to incorporate MA with shooting arts and melt them together. Now that's what I call MMA.

So out of curiousity, I wanted to see if anyone here goes through outside training to update their MA.

I have actually been tossing around the idea, that 3-5yrs from now(take me that long to save up money to support me and a school) to start teaching again. However this go around, I would incorporate firearms training on top of the traditional Shaolin weapons.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I think when it comes to traditional weapons, practicing them for preservations sake is a good thing.

In today's world tough, short weapons rule. Short sticks, knives etc... so in addition to Firearms, It's probably bets to concentrate on the shorter weapons. Any kind of short stick fighting, like Fatal Flute, Hsing I short stick, as well as the Phillipino stuff.

I would think Traditional Double Daggers would be a good one to peruse, and of course all the WWII knife fighting as well.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

As a spin off to your weapons thought, since Chinese herbal medicine is often part of MA training, it may be good to have CPR classes taught at the school too.

Maybe have the local paramedics come in and teach the classes.

[Mr Punch]

... like Fatal Flute:rolleyes:
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[rogue]

I think the courses are mostly a waste of time for civilians. They're usually too short and most who attend don't maintain whatever skills that they did pick up.

[Mr Punch]

Interesting you should say that... I've often had my doubts.

The other thing you seem to see a lot of on these gun training courses is lots of standing still target shooting, even if the target's popping up from different places and ranges. I would have thought for any tactical firearms situation, for example, if an armed assailant breaks into your home, you need close quarters stuff: IDing targets/differentiating from loved ones; evasion and use of available cover (plus what constitues cover at various ranges from various kinds of firearms); all the movie SWAT stuff of fire arcs and lines of sight etc; plus ways of holding to provide maximum inaccessibility to your firearm for you attacker... etc etc.

Standing still and doing target practice would just give you a false sense of confidence and security whereby you'd be likely to endanger your loved ones in a home assault situation.

BTW, I haven't looked at XCA's sites and checked to see what kind of cousres they're offering and now I'm at work so I'm not going to.
BTW 2, it's all academic for me. I'm an Englishman living in Japan, and despite the rise in firearms incidents in the UK, there's still a very low rate, ditto Japan, so I'm less likely to need such a course, and even though I would actually like to take one, there's also less chance of finding a good one in either place due to the severity of firearms laws.

I would definitely like to go for some knife work, but short of finding someone of Dogbrothers' ilk to take me through the material on 'Die Less Often', or taking up full-contact kali etc myself, I get the feeling most other stuff would be half-arsed. And I've already received a lot of police training knife training, which was mostly crap, or specifically for when you outnumber the attacker(s) and have access to a baton type weapon.

[rogue]

It's fun to train but really not needed by Joe and Jane average.
Some things that I've learned about civilian self protection with a handgun. It's mostly about hitting a target at 7 meters or less. If someone is shooting at you learn how to get a substantial object between you and the shooter in the fastest way possible (sounds dumb but many people blow it). If you hear someone in your house don't go looking for them but use predetermined concealment that will let you ID them before pulling the trigger (dead family members suck). Use your ears. Generally the better your weapon is concealed the harder it will be to get to. Use the simplest weapon that you can. Know the laws of whatever states you will be carrying in. Remember that many cops hate civilians that carry guns.

[xcakid]

As a spin off to your weapons thought, since Chinese herbal medicine is often part of MA training, it may be good to have CPR classes taught at the school too.

Maybe have the local paramedics come in and teach the classes.

Yes, I have actually thought about that too. But my knowledge of Chinese medicine is limited. Same with EMT. So I guess bringing in people for that would be ideal.


Know the laws of whatever states you will be carrying in. Remember that many cops hate civilians that carry guns.


Yep. The views on firearms really do vary by state. In CA its taboo for civilian to have a gun. Here in TX, I shoot with a lot of cops. They tell me that they are more comfortable knowing a guy has a concealed handgun license than any other guy. Reason being; a guy with a CHL has passed an FBI background check. They know he is not a felon. No outstanding warrants, and is for the most part a law abiding citizens.

[xcakid]

Interesting you should say that... I've often had my doubts.

The other thing you seem to see a lot of on these gun training courses is lots of standing still target shooting, even if the target's popping up from different places and ranges. I would have thought for any tactical firearms situation, for example, if an armed assailant breaks into your home, you need close quarters stuff: IDing targets/differentiating from loved ones; evasion and use of available cover (plus what constitues cover at various ranges from various kinds of firearms); all the movie SWAT stuff of fire arcs and lines of sight etc; plus ways of holding to provide maximum inaccessibility to your firearm for you attacker... etc etc.

Standing still and doing target practice would just give you a false sense of confidence and security whereby you'd be likely to endanger your loved ones in a home assault situation.

BTW, I haven't looked at XCA's sites and checked to see what kind of cousres they're offering and now I'm at work so I'm not going to.

I would definitely like to go for some knife work, but short of finding someone of Dogbrothers' ilk to take me through the material on 'Die Less Often', or taking up full-contact kali etc myself, I get the feeling most other stuff would be half-arsed. And I've already received a lot of police training knife training, which was mostly crap, or specifically for when you outnumber the attacker(s) and have access to a baton type weapon.

Actually the courses I have taken have been tactical shooting. Meaning shooting from various position including lying sideways or on your back etc. As well as running and shooting. Shooting from inside a vehicles. TFFT actuall teaches drills on how to draw your weapon when someone is coming at you. The outfits I posted actually train law enforcement, various local SWAT, and border patrol, as well as offering Personal Protection Courses.

All of the shooting comps I participate in are much in the same way. Running and shooting and hitting multiple targets using a variety of shooting positions.
Here's an example of what a typical shooting comp would be run/shot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWQdgyRtERo
What they did not show is that on certain stages you have to do 1 handed mag changes or shoot one handed typically with your non shooting hand.

[Laukarbo]

I also join selfdefense courses of a group called PVAA(( physical violance against aliens ), this is a worldwide programe founded by the nasa in corparation with the TROTTEL gmbH

also joined a 6 months seminar for nuclear weapons in combat...

:rolleyes:

[Chosen-frozen]

As far as courses go, you might also want to check out Gunsite in Arizona and Masad Ayoob`s Leathal force Institute in Massachusetes(SP?). Jim Grover has one in the Carolinas I believe called the Crucible. All have several courses that intigrate firearms, emptyhand,knife, and less-than-leathal weapons (ie:pepperspray, tasers, etc.)

[xcakid]

As far as courses go, you might also want to check out Gunsite in Arizona and Masad Ayoob`s Leathal force Institute in Massachusetes(SP?). Jim Grover has one in the Carolinas I believe called the Crucible. All have several courses that intigrate firearms, emptyhand,knife, and less-than-leathal weapons (ie:pepperspray, tasers, etc.)


Been to Gunsite. I was not too impressed.

I'll check out the others though. Thx :cool:

[BruceSteveRoy]

well i personally feel that the most important reason for firearms training is not addressed at gun ranges. all the targets they offer where i was shooting were for shooting living humans so the target was on the chest. when the zombie apocalypse comes people wont have the trainign to make the head shot. i personally feel if you incorporate firearms you should get targets printed up that address this concern. i mean you dont want your students to be caught with their pants down when zombiegeddon comes do you?

[xcakid]

well i personally feel that the most important reason for firearms training is not addressed at gun ranges. all the targets they offer where i was shooting were for shooting living humans so the target was on the chest. when the zombie apocalypse comes people wont have the trainign to make the head shot. i personally feel if you incorporate firearms you should get targets printed up that address this concern. i mean you dont want your students to be caught with their pants down when zombiegeddon comes do you?

I plan on teaching shotgun courses. Specifically for head shots and blowing up zombie heads. Also a long range shooting with .50 BMG aiming at zombie heads. Added to that a broadsword class for taking off zombie heads. I think I am all set. :p

I also have plenty of zombie training videos. Resident Evil. Evil Dead. Night of the living dead. Day of the dead. Etc.

[Sifu Darkfist]

i am sorry if i step on toes,
nevertheless i do not believe in defense or defense courses.
in order to assure your safety and the safety of your family you must take a proactive position in your training.

the oldest cliche in the MA book is loaded with truism
the best defense is through offense.

One should train in attack techniques and preemptive tactics that will allow one to control the combative situation with true initiative.

the best way to safety is THROUGH the target.

In the words of law professionals that consult on self defense "i acted to stop the threat".

regardless of your training facility(and weapons of which i prefer 45 as well as 380 backup for accuracy), if they do not teach offensive manuevers then they are fighting reactionary action that will perpetually place the initiative in the hands of your aggressors.

[Shaolinlueb]

truth of the matter is you can never be prepared enough.

a guy has a gun, you have a Kevlar vest, you are still going to get knocked back if he decides to aim there.

you have a gun holstered he has a knife. chances are you re being stabbed repeatedly before you can draw it.

you are being confronted by 5 alquaida. their heretic Muslim bullets bounce off your Jesus shield, but one puts anthrax on the goat you were herding.

see you can never be prepared enough.

on a serious noted though..

its all well and good to train that, but you should train to avoid it IMO.
if it comes down to it, i hope to god my training and your training paid off.

all i know school owners can cash in on self defense courses. a lot of it is common sense, but sometimes pay too much attention to the techniques and the gutting guy, and forget the fundamental basics. they never learn the: "stay away from me, i dont want you any closer." or someone comes up to you all angry and you say "calm down".

my 2 cents which will get flamed

[xcakid]

i am sorry if i step on toes,
nevertheless i do not believe in defense or defense courses.
in order to assure your safety and the safety of your family you must take a proactive position in your training.

the oldest cliche in the MA book is loaded with truism
the best defense is through offense.

One should train in attack techniques and preemptive tactics that will allow one to control the combative situation with true initiative.

the best way to safety is THROUGH the target.

In the words of law professionals that consult on self defense "i acted to stop the threat".

regardless of your training facility(and weapons of which i prefer 45 as well as 380 backup for accuracy), if they do not teach offensive manuevers then they are fighting reactionary action that will perpetually place the initiative in the hands of your aggressors.

I agree with you 100%.

This was taught to me fighting multiple attackers. Offense and evade is the way to minimize your chance of getting beat down. Minimize.

With regards to shooting. There is a precursor to the shooting situation just like a precursor to an actuall fight. Like walking down the street and you see a group of guys and you start to walk on the other side. Or a subtle move that puts you into offensive. You really should not have to react.

All of the tactical/practical shooting courses I have taken has been "to stop the threat" Same with the IDPA or IPSC competitions. I can see how "defensive" can be misinterpreted. However, in todays "PC" climate. Advertising a course as offensive in nature may not be received well in the eyes of the masses. :D


truth of the matter is you can never be prepared enough.

all i know school owners can cash in on self defense courses. a lot of it is common sense, but sometimes pay too much attention to the techniques and the gutting guy, and forget the fundamental basics. they never learn the: "stay away from me, i dont want you any closer." or someone comes up to you all angry and you say "calm down".

my 2 cents which will get flamed


I agree with that 100% as well. A street fight is dynamic and unpredictable. Hard to prepare for it. Only thing we can do is to know/learn all aspects of fighting. This encompasses open hand, weapons, and pshycology/mental aspect.

I also agree that descalation of the situation is your best bet.