Walking Bagua posts with Weight Vest and KB's

[Dale Dugas]

Here's a link to me walking the posts with a 60 pound vest on with two 50 pound bells in the overhead position as well as in the rack.

enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBaBv0rbUk4

Be well, train hard

[Mortifere]

That's pretty sweet, I have a 25 pound vest. I haven't been using it because I can't get it tight enough to not hit my chest and shoulders as I run. I'm think that I'm going to use a belt or two to get it tight enough and see if that works.

What are some good exercises with a vest? And are there any wrist and ankle weights that don't cut into your hands and feet but provide substantial weight?

[SevenStar]

you don't wanna run with ankle weights. I have a 10lb. pair. lifting motions and such, but do them slowly to prevent injury. you can do things at normal speed with a vest.

[Water Dragon]

Let me know if I'm wrong, but I always thoght holding bricks were for alignment, not strength. I.E., you get more benefit from holding a 10 pound weight in a stretched arm than a 60 pound weight over head.

[Dale Dugas]

This is a Wai Gong exercise. Meaning External Work; this is not for internal work but for external structure and strength.

You start with lighter weights and build up.

This is not typical of most people.

Most people have trouble with this as if your structure is not correct. Not only would you be unable to do this, you would fall down.

[tattooedmonk]

This is a Wai Gong exercise. Meaning External Work; this is not for internal work but for external structure and strength.

You start with lighter weights and build up.

This is not typical of most people.

Most people have trouble with this as if your structure is not correct. Not only would you be unable to do this, you would fall down.From a physiological stand point, the only thing I would recomend is sinking your stance so that you can tuck your hips up and under ( what is known as the drawing in manuver in personal trainig)and do not lock your knees and elbows out. Just advice. But over all I like the exercise. I do something very similar.:D

[Water Dragon]

Gotcha. Is there much difference between what you're doing and something like overhead squats then?

[doug maverick]

that wasn't what i expected, i use to see my sifu circle walk with outstreched bricks in his hand, and he would always be really low while walking the circle, i kinda expected to see somthing like that but okay i guess bending reall low with all that weight would blow your knees out.

[Dale Dugas]

No offense but bricks offer only slight amounts of weight. I started using bricks and shotputs years ago before bells were around. You want to get as strong as you can as that makes normal people unable to deal with the strength you have developed through your material.

People look at big people and say they cannot be internal.

They are mistaken. Nothing wrong with having strong muscles to help you move your whole body into someone.

Strengthen yourself as much as possible without going overboard.

The weight is used to learn to feed it down into the ground without losing structure as well as ability to move. When you leave the bells off as well as the vest you are like a Cuisinart of death to people that do not do this form of training.

I do not go low as I do not want to engram this into my physical memory. I want to ingrain as much as possible how I am going to be when I actually start to use against others. Hence my normal stances, that you commented as being high.

People can choose to do what they want. Do not try and fit all people and styles into these boxes that have been created over the years that bagua people do this, taiji people do this. take your material and make it work for you, and you alone. Research what your Shifu shows you, but do it in an environment of experimentation. You need to see if it works for you.

[David Jamieson]

Dale-

Do you walk with a "V" configuration ever to fully stress the joint and connection to the back?

[Dale Dugas]

With lighter weights you can walk with a V. Its hard to do with the heavier weights I use. I transition up and use different things to train all levels.

I also use iron rings as they are lighter and move which creates a whole different dynamic.

As I mentioned in my above post. Work on things and find out what works for you. All things do not work for all people. You have to find out how to exploit the strengths you have and minimize the weak points.

[tattooedmonk]

causes your butt to stick out and does not complete the connection of the micro cosmic orbit , which affects the overall structure and the flow of energy throughout. having you legs locked out intead of being bent affects the overall kinetic chain,( nervous, muscular, and skeletal systems) which means you can not root into the earth or have the desired stability , control, strength, etc.

The way most people walk and stand is improper anyway. You all might want to study up on anatomy and physiology, not failing to mention the rules of the internal arts if you do not get what I am saying.

I am a personal trainer and I am studying medicine. I also have a great deal of experience in the internal arts, all the same principles apply to both.

Why would you train against the rules of the internal arts ?? The way you apply them in training should transfer over into your normal everyday life. which means that eventually the training will correct the the alignment and the overal energetic and structural problems and imbalances within your body.

[Dale Dugas]

Okay,

first off I was not squatting but sitting back to pick up 100 pounds of iron in the form of kettlebells. My back was also in the neutral position.

Anytime you want to post video of you doing the same exercise with the same weight with your alignments as you "suggest", feel free.

Anytime you want to link to video of where people squat properly with their backsides tucked under as you suggest, again, feel free.

I stick my ass out a little as I learned that from Steve Cotter, and others who have experience in kettlebell lifting and kinesiology.

My wife who is also a certified personal trainer, says the form is fine as its more of a dead lift into a clean and press maneuver.

My wife wonders what national certification you hold for personal training as your statements about the drawing in method seem to be off a bit. As to her definition the "drawing in" maneuver refers to pulling the umbilicus towards the spine to stabilize the core muscles.

Also in terms of hip and glute position in the squat, that can vary depending on type of squat: Bodybuilding versus Power Lifting squat, back squat versus a front squat as well as the squatters physical anatomy. Long legs versus long torso. and short torso with long legs.

I have shorter legs and a long torso.

I also use pressured breathing to create a virtual belt around my lower midsection and spine to protect it.

Making offhand comments about your training and internal arts experience and then mentioning the micro cosmic orbit makes me wonder what kind of experience you actually have. The legs have nothing to do with the microcosmic orbit, that is running the qi up your spine and down the front of your body. If you were talking about the macrocosmic orbit, then that is another thing itself.

I mentioned this was Wai Gong training in an earlier post, which in Chinese means external training. This is not internal training but external structure and strength training. Obviously you do not have the experience you allude to as you would have caught that this was labeled a wai gong training exercise.

be well, train hard

[AndrewS]

Hey Dale,

how long do your sets last when you're doing this sort of thing? I was doing figure 8 waiter's walks (essentially the same thing with just one 53 or a 72) generally going for 30-60 seconds on a side, for a little stabilizer strength. Any thoughts on initiation and progression, and for how long. Typically I find I stop getting benefit (besides recovery and GPP) out of stuff like this after 6-10 weeks, then put it away for a while, and do something else before returning to it.

Tattooedmonk,

As far as 'internal arts' go- check out Chuck Vogehpul speed squating on the EFS tapes, or Louie's descriptions of the squat. Most 'internal mechanics' I've run into seem to be ways to handle a sh*tload of weight for reps, and share a lot with the efficient ways to do hard manual labor. Tucking your *ss in, from what I can tell is an attempt to replicate the end position of hip extension with the hips pushed forward, usually using a different kinetic chain. The tuck (as opposed to pushing the hips forward- see Rodney King moving a bit, Chuck V squatting, Steve Cotter doing ballisitc KB exercises, a properly done step and punch in Wing Chun) removes the natural curve in the L spine, and can put your L spine in flexion, greatly increasing your risk for low back injury, and limiting the amount of force you can exert by putting the gluts in a shorted starting position by increasing posterior pelvic tilt. How does your interpretation of these mechanics differ?

Andrew

[tattooedmonk]

Okay,

first off I was not squatting but sitting back to pick up 100 pounds of iron in the form of kettlebells. My back was also in the neutral position.

Anytime you want to post video of you doing the same exercise with the same weight with your alignments as you "suggest", feel free.

Anytime you want to link to video of where people squat properly with their backsides tucked under as you suggest, again, feel free.

I stick my ass out a little as I learned that from Steve Cotter, and others who have experience in kettlebell lifting and kinesiology.

My wife who is also a certified personal trainer, says the form is fine as its more of a dead lift into a clean and press maneuver.

My wife wonders what national certification you hold for personal training as your statements about the drawing in method seem to be off a bit. As to her definition the "drawing in" maneuver refers to pulling the umbilicus towards the spine to stabilize the core muscles.

Also in terms of hip and glute position in the squat, that can vary depending on type of squat: Bodybuilding versus Power Lifting squat, back squat versus a front squat as well as the squatters physical anatomy. Long legs versus long torso. and short torso with long legs.

I have shorter legs and a long torso.

I also use pressured breathing to create a virtual belt around my lower midsection and spine to protect it.

Making offhand comments about your training and internal arts experience and then mentioning the micro cosmic orbit makes me wonder what kind of experience you actually have. The legs have nothing to do with the microcosmic orbit, that is running the qi up your spine and down the front of your body. If you were talking about the macrocosmic orbit, then that is another thing itself.

I mentioned this was Wai Gong training in an earlier post, which in Chinese means external training. This is not internal training but external structure and strength training. Obviously you do not have the experience you allude to as you would have caught that this was labeled a wai gong training exercise.

be well, train hard First off, I apologize if we got off on the wrong foot.

second,I was not talking about the squat.

I was talking about you spine while you are walking .

There is a noticable sway in your lower back( anterior pelvic tilt), which indicates that you are not doing the drawing in manuver or tilting your hips up and under, in which case you are obstructing the flow of energy in the MICRO COSMIC ORBIT , in turn will affect the flow and energy through out your WHOLE BODY( macro cosmic orbit) and will make your belt technique in effective.

If you are doing the drawing in manuver properly then this will help you tuck your hips up and under. Just drawing your belly button into the spine is only part of it . If you are doing just that then you are not working or strengthening the Psoas and other core muscles properly.

It appears, as you are walking, that you are also locking your legs out.

I know the difference between the macro and the micro , as well as , the difference between the wai gung and nei gung.

I mentioned my training to let you all know that I am experienced .

N.A.S.M. is my certification.

All I was attempting to do is help you out a little so you do not hurt yourself and to help you gain more strength and power in what you are doing.

All of the same physiological principles apply whether you are doing internal or external.

That is all .

You can save the attempts at insults.

[tattooedmonk]

Tattooedmonk,

As far as 'internal arts' go- check out Chuck Vogehpul speed squating on the EFS tapes, or Louie's descriptions of the squat. Most 'internal mechanics' I've run into seem to be ways to handle a sh*tload of weight for reps, and share a lot with the efficient ways to do hard manual labor. Tucking your *ss in, from what I can tell is an attempt to replicate the end position of hip extension with the hips pushed forward, usually using a different kinetic chain. The tuck (as opposed to pushing the hips forward- see Rodney King moving a bit, Chuck V squatting, Steve Cotter doing ballisitc KB exercises, a properly done step and punch in Wing Chun) removes the natural curve in the L spine, and can put your L spine in flexion, greatly increasing your risk for low back injury, and limiting the amount of force you can exert by putting the gluts in a shorted starting position by increasing posterior pelvic tilt. How does your interpretation of these mechanics differ?

AndrewI will check those out. Your description appears to be right on.

[Dale Dugas]

First off, I apologize if we got off on the wrong foot.

second,I was not talking about the squat.

I was talking about you spine while you are walking .

There is a noticable sway in your lower back( anterior pelvic tilt), which indicates that you are not doing the drawing in manuver or tilting your hips up and under, in which case you are obstructing the flow of energy in the MICRO COSMIC ORBIT , in turn will affect the flow and energy through out your WHOLE BODY( macro cosmic orbit) and will make your belt technique in effective.

If you are doing the drawing in manuver properly then this will help you tuck your hips up and under. Just drawing your belly button into the spine is only part of it . If you are doing just that then you are not working or strengthening the Psoas and other core muscles properly.

It appears, as you are walking, that you are also locking your legs out.

I know the difference between the macro and the micro , as well as , the difference between the wai gung and nei gung.

I mentioned my training to let you all know that I am experienced .

N.A.S.M. is my certification.

All I was attempting to do is help you out a little so you do not hurt yourself and to help you gain more strength and power in what you are doing.

All of the same physiological principles apply whether you are doing internal or external.

That is all .

You can save the attempts at insults.

Brother,

It is always hard to figure out what most people are saying on the net as we are not face to face.

I apologize for misunderstanding.

I thought you were talking about the squatting.

I also believe that Im doing it right as Ive experimented with trying to keep my ass under and its not doable for me. Again I have to emphasize that you need to experiment with yourself and find out what works for you.

Cookie cutter advice is not going to work with some people.

I absolutley dissagree with you about trying to bring anything with non tension(micro/macro cosmic orbits) into wai gung training, buts thats not a big deal.

Be well, train hard