sifu chows integrative wing chun

[Aeturnal]

apparently he teaches wing chun and submissions together athe fight house in nyc...does anyone know if his wing chun is any good? thanks...

[southernkf]

Never met him. I have only seen some of his stuff on video, so this isn't a very good judge of skills on my part. It seemed to me that he had some good stuff on the video. It all seemed plausible and solid. It is a little different than what I do, but I like much of it for the most part.

I don't know how it relates to what he teaches or how he might have evolved with his current methodology.

[Sihing73]

Hello,

Sifu Chow is a very unique individual in many ways. His Wing Chun comes from the Leung Shueng line and is based on that approach. While he has "modified" the forms, he has not actually "changed" any of the concepts learned within the forms. What he has done, imho, is to introduce some concepts earlier in training. For example in the first form he reverses the direction of Fook and Wu Sau. Some disagree with this but if we look at the second from we find an extending Wu there so this is not a violation of any WC concepts, it simply introduces the extending Wu earlier. Sifu Chows reason for doing so it so that his students will have more practice in application in a realistic situation.

One of the things which always impressed me with Sifu Chow was his openess and willingness to explore. His Wing Chun, while primarily LS based, "integrates" concepts from several different lines. Sifu Chow has met and trained with many other WC Sifu and has incorporated different aspects of Wing Chun into his own interpretation. He has also explored arts other than Wing Chun and has worked to integrate them into his approach as well, while still striving to maintain a WC base.

As to the question of whether or not his WC skills are any good; that is an open ended question and you will not find the answer on this or any other forum. Just like any other WC Sifu there will be those who agree with his approach and laud his skills and there will be those who deride his skills. The best thing to do is to visit one of his classes, if opportunity presents itself, and see for yourself. Irregardless of what you may think of his level of skill, I think you will be impressed by his openess and willingness to share and explore other ideas.

[Vajramusti]

I respect Sifu Chow.
We have a bit of a discussion on this before. Why does he reverse the path of the fook and wu in the slt? I cant think of a good reason.
Regards,

joy chaudhuri

[CFT]

I respect Sifu Chow.
We have a bit of a discussion on this before. Why does he reverse the path of the fook and wu in the slt? I cant think of a good reason.
Regards,

joy chaudhuriFrom Dave's post, I would draw the conclusion that it is more reflective of these shapes in application.

[Vajramusti]

From Dave's post, I would draw the conclusion that it is more reflective of these shapes in application
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Ok I understand that perspective. Thanks.
OTOH FWIW---its becoming more common to think of form motions primarily as applications.
But that can miss some key developmental emphases. Development provides the foundations for application.
Take the wu- not just a shape but motion and a way to train energy in the motion.
Yin/yang complementarity.
The wu may have to handle tremendous incoming force. The hand going back if done with
the relevant intention-strengthens the foward energy of the elbow as it sinks.
I was just trying to understand Sifu Chow's thinking. No problem with different approaches..

Joy Chaudhuri

[southernkf]

Hi Guys,

I often wonder about changes. My first thought is to be traditional. I start with the assumption that the set was devised by people smarter than me in wing chun and had a reason for doing something. Changing it may deny one of important information, as Joy mentioned.

But then again, I am coming around to a slightly different way of thinking. What good is something if we don't fully understand it? I think knowledge has changed a lot since the forms were "codified" and on top of that much of the form is abstract and can be implemented in many different ways. Your only limited by your imagination and effectiveness, atleast judging by some of the youtube videos.:p But really, If you can derive a valid use of something, then a change may be appropriate, at least for you. But perhaps you need to go back to the source and see what new insight can be retrieved. I think we evolve over time and have different levels of understanding as we progress.

In any case, not sure if this the reason for what Chow sifu has done. But it allows me to play with the art and explore it. Hopefully I can see why we don't do things a certain way and why we do others that way. Play with it. Have fun. Learn from it.

[Sihing73]

Hi Joy,

Forgive my tardiness in a reply :)

CFT hit the nail on the head. You also make a good point in that the Wu must be able to deal with incoming energy. However, in application the energy in a Wu must be forward even when returning. Training to do this with an extending Wu in the forms and allowing the Wu to return when presented with a superior force while training with a partner allows one to grasp this energy and concept much more quickly. While you can certainly achieve the same result over time training the forms in the traditional manner, this approach may allow one to do so a bit quicker. Perhaps Apples and Oranges after all. But, when one performs a retracting Wu in the form while still trying to achieve forward focus ones mind can be split and the result not as uniform. Then when attempting to extend the Wu one may have a slight hesitation while ones mind adjusts.

The Fook on the other had is often used to accept and guide incoming energy. In many instances the Fook family will cover the attack. Unless one opts to fight force with force, the Fook will rarely extend, of course nothing is absolute and there will always be exceptions to every rule. A lot will depend on whether one chooses to take a softer or more rigid approach. For instance when a punch comes in if one opts to respond with a Jum Sau then one would deflect the force although one would still not "fight" the force. Still this response would provide more energy for the opponent to feed off of. On the other hand if one were to use more of a Jut and accept the incoming energy and flow with it while guideing the incoming force without clashing then the feeling will be more soft and the opponent will have less energy to feed off of. Both response would be correct depending on the situation, however in Sifu Chows approach the second would be the more desirible and softer approach. Thus one reason for the change in sequence of the form.

Also I think that it is a great error to think of the forms as "applications" or a series of movements to be used in response to certain stimuli. If this were the case then WC would have a larger number of forms rather than the limited number it has now. What makes the forms so valuable is that they teach and intridcue concepts to the students rather than specific "techniques" or movements. Ones Taun may not always look the same as in the form but the energy of how one applies that Taun and shape will be gleaned from the forms.

When one tries to lock the forms into specific applications and techniques for this or that attack then one becomes limited in their scope and application, IMHO. When one tries to discover the energy of said "techniques" and focuses on dealing with said energy both yours and your opponents then one raises the potential for a limitless set of responses which can and will change in each and every situation depending on just what type and direction of energy the opponent presents.

Just some bits of rambling while I should be working.

CFT,

It is interesting to consider just how much a "traditional" martial art actually changes over time. While one should not make changes will nilly without a firm understanding of the underlying concepts, it is also true that the needs of combat will make some variations over time. Also, as ones body undergoes changes one must be open to adapting ones approach to make it still applicable. One of the biggest examples would be in the diverse nature of combat methods one is exposed to today. While one may habe been able to be complacent in the past as one may never need to face a boxer or wrestler, todays martial artists finds new and different arts to more prevalent thus making ones opponents more likely to be from a broader background, perhaps presenting combat methods one is unused to. In such a situation, one needs to "adapt" or "evolve" their "traditional" approach to deal with the new challenges.

Now does this make our approach more or less "traditional".