OT: "i think" lust caution

[doug maverick]

this might be off topic but since we talked bou this film a little on another thread i figured i mine as well give it a review.

first here's the plot:

Shanghai, 1942. The World War II Japanese occupation of this Chinese city continues in force. Mrs. Mak, a woman of sophistication and means, walks into a café, places a call, and then sits and waits. She remembers how her story began several years earlier, in 1938 China. She is not in fact Mrs. Mak, but shy Wong Chia Chi (Tang Wei). With WWII underway, Wong has been left behind by her father, who has escaped to England. As a freshman at university, she meets fellow student Kuang Yu Min (Wang Leehom) Kuang has started a drama society to shore up patriotism. As the theater troupes new leading lady, Wong realizes that she has found her calling, able to move and inspire audiences and Kuang. He convenes a core group of students to carry out a radical and ambitious plan to assassinate a top Japanese collaborator, Mr. Yee (Tony Leung). Each student has a part to play; Wong will be Mrs. Mak, who will gain Yees trust by befriending his wife (Joan Chen) and then draw the man into an affair. Wong transforms herself utterly inside and out, and the scenario proceeds as scripted until an unexpectedly fatal twist spurs her to flee. Shanghai, 1941. With no end in sight for the occupation, Wong having emigrated from Hong Kong goes through the motions of her existence. Much to her surprise, Kuang re-enters her life. Now part of the organized resistance, he enlists her to again become Mrs. Mak in a revival of the plot to kill Yee, who as head of the collaborationist secret service has become even more a key part of the puppet government. As Wong reprises her earlier role, and is drawn ever closer to her dangerous prey, she finds her very identity being pushed to the limit... Written by Focus Features


now the review:

as expected from a student ofthe great marty scoresesse this flm is fantastic in its artistry and techincal aspect. While the film does have a dash of wong kar wai "stone soup"(wich has so mny ingredient u don't know what your tasting) thi movie is slow cooked ang lee "beef stew"(sorry for the food analogies haven;t eaten dinner yet) te film takes a long time to build but hen it does you enjoy but just when ur enjoying it it stops and then slows downand then speeds up again and hen slows down and speeds up again(you get my drift) tony leung is in great form in this film his acting is first rate and i think i can say his washis best perfomance ever. tang wei who i honestly have not heard of but want to see mor of her now was also fantastic as an actress playing an actress playing a role. the film ofcourse has built some notoriety for its explicit sex scene's garnering it an nc 17 rating(which is actually an X rating) my girlfried and i kept looking at each other wondering if tony and tang wei were really having intercourse. now let me digress to say although the sex was wild and crazy i didn;t find it to atractive mainly because the actress had under arm hai and i just can;t get down with that but this was during world war two era so i'll let it go. the only thing that had me screaming in this film is the extremely slow pacing, but watching tang become a spy how she had to go about doing(spoiler) she had to lose her virginity to one of her friends who is a *****monger so he could know how to have sex to lure tony's character in, among other things. if you go see this film i recommend that u go well rested and u have lots of snacks to keep you occupied. cause while you'll enjoy the movie u won;t enjoy the ride.

[GeneChing]

Taiwan Withdraws Lee's Film From Oscars (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5idoGuH0XkcetzvvJz0AyvFL0897g)
By MIN LEE – 1 day ago

HONG KONG (AP) — Ang Lee's new spy thriller, "Lust, Caution," has been withdrawn as Taiwan's entry for the best foreign film category at next year's Oscars.

"An insufficient number of Taiwanese participated in the production of the film," said Oscar spokeswoman Teni Melidonian in an e-mail, violating a rule that requires foreign countries to certify that their locals "exercised artistic control" over their submission.

Taiwan has replaced "Lust, Caution" with Chen Huai-en's "Island Etude," about a university student's bicycle tour of Taiwan.

Chen Chun-jer, acting director of the Taiwanese government's movie department, said the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences requires that at least some of the movie's personnel in cinematography, music, recording and costume design be locals.

"We and Ang Lee are disappointed," Chen said. "Lee has a good chance of winning an Oscar. This movie was also popular in Taiwan."

Chen said the government respected the Oscar requirements.

Stanley Hung, secretary-general of Taiwan's Motion Picture and Drama Association — the body that decides the island's best foreign film Oscar entry — has appealed the film's rejection.

"Lust, Caution," about the sexually charged relationship between an undercover activist and the Japanese-allied intelligence chief in World War II-era Shanghai, won the top Golden Lion prize at this year's Venice Film Festival.

Lee won the best director Oscar last year for "Brokeback Mountain." His kung-fu hit "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon," won the best foreign language film Oscar for Taiwan in 2001.

His movies also include "Hulk" and "Sense and Sensibility."

The withdrawal of "Lust, Caution" is a political blow to Taiwan, which views Lee, 52, and his Oscar win as a symbol for national success as it asserts a separate identity from mainland China.

So what do you really think? Too pornographic to represent? ;)

[doug maverick]

i mean the sex scenes were explicit but in the realm of senses was nominated in the seventies and it had real intercourse. i think they withdrew because they thought it wouldn't win the nc17(which is really X) really hindred it at the box office i mean even in new york it was only playing at two theaters and they were very small theaters. to bad they withdrew it cuase except for exiled there isn;t to much compition in the forien film catagory

[GeneChing]

...he knows how to stir up controversy.


Ang Lee's 'Lust, Caution' fails to qualify for most Hong Kong Film Awards (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/10/25/arts/AS-A-E-MOV-Ang-Lee-Lust-Caution.php)
The Associated Press
Published: October 25, 2007

HONG KONG: Ang Lee's "Lust, Caution" can't qualify for the major categories at the Hong Kong Film Awards — a major honor in Chinese-language cinema — because not enough Hong Kong residents worked on the movie, organizers said Thursday.

The news comes after the Oscars rejected the spy thriller as Taiwan's entry for best foreign film, because not enough Taiwanese took part in making it.

Lee, who won best director Oscar for "Brokeback Mountain" last year, hails from Taiwan.

The much-hyped "Lust, Caution" is about a sexually charged relationship between an undercover activist (Tang Wei) and the Japanese-allied intelligence chief (Tony Leung Chiu-wai) in World War II-era Shanghai.

The Hong Kong Film Awards event is open to movies that meet at least two of three requirements: a Hong Kong director, a Hong Kong film company and at least eight Hong Kong residents were among the key creative talent. The requirement of eight Hong Kongers among the production crew was raised from six last year.

One of the investors in "Lust, Caution," — Hong Kong's Edko Films Ltd. — told organizers that not enough Hong Kongers had worked on the film for it to qualify for the major award categories, like best film and best director, Michelle Tsang, the administration manager of the Hong Kong Film Awards, told The Associated Press.

Lead actor Leung is from Hong Kong, but lead actress Tang is mainland Chinese. Director Lee and script writer Wang Hui-ling are Taiwanese, cinematographer Rodrigo Prieto is Mexican and composer Alexandre Desplat is French.

An Edko executive didn't immediately return a reporter's call seeking comment.

However, Tsang said the film, which has earned millions of U.S. dollars (euros) at Taiwan and Hong Kong box offices, qualifies for the best Asian film prize at the Hong Kong Film Awards, which is open to non-Hong Kong movies.

The movie's recent problems in meeting film award requirements stem from a growing integration in the Chinese-speaking film industry. It is common for Hong Kong, mainland China and Taiwan to pool resources and talent.

Commenting on the trend, Lee recently told Taiwan's CTI Cable News: "With Chinese-language films, their production systems and audiences are spread out wide."

The best-known Chinese-language film honor is Taiwan's Golden Horse Awards, open to all Chinese-language movies. "Lust, Caution" has qualified for that event, scheduled for Dec. 8 in Taipei.


"Lust, Caution" Up for Golden Horse (http://english.cri.cn/3086/2007/10/28/1261@288507.htm)
2007-10-28 18:57:45 CRIENGLISH.com
This year's Golden Horse Film Awards in Taiwan will be highlighted by many mainland film talents and Ang Lee's spy thriller "Lust, Caution" vying for half of the awards.

On the list of nominees announced on Saturday, "Lust, Caution" appears 11 times, almost half the number of total awards, including best director, best actor, best actress and best film.

The other four competitors for best film are "Qing Fei De Yi," "The Home Song Stories," and mainland films "Getting Home" and "Tuya's Marriage."

Challenging Taiwan-born Ang Lee in the best director category are veteran Hong Kong script writer and first-time director Yau Nai-Hoi (Eye in the Sky), Wang Quan'an (Tuya's Marriage), and Li Yang (Blind Mountain). The last two are both from the mainland.

"Lust, Caution"'s Tony Leung is up for the best actor award. His rivals include Hong Kong singer and actor Aaron Kwok (The Detective) and prominent mainland comedian Zhao Benshan (Getting Home).

Best actress will be selected from four mainland-born actresses, namely Yu Nan (Tuya's Marriage), Joan Chen (The Home Song Stories), Li Bingbing (The Knot), and Tang Wei (Lust, Caution).

Tang Wei was also nominated for best new performer.

Mainland actor and director Jiang Wen's "The Sun Also Rises," which lost Venice's Golden Lion award to "Lust, Caution," got two nominations for best screenplay adaptation and best editing.

Taiwan pop king Jay Chou's directorial debut, "Secret," managed to bag five nominations, including best original film song and best Taiwan film of the year.

Jay Chou will also vie to be named best Taiwan filmmaker of the year along with Ang Lee and "Qing Fei De Yi" director Doze Niu.

The final winners will be announced on December 8.

Now I'm thinking this is all a Taiwan vs PRC issue...

[doug maverick]

Yeah its looks like that to me. the thing is lust caution is a really boring movie because of the pacing idk if you've seen it yet but i wish i would've seen this movie in the bronx so the audience would've made it more exciting. i got know feeling of suspense as you should in a spy film also with such intense sex scenes the killing scenes were extremely lack luster. i think when shooting sex scenes you have to make it sensual you have make the audience feel aroused by watching the scene instead of being disturbed like lust caution's love scenes also on a personal note i hated seeing tony luengs ball sack they could've kept that shot to themselves.

I just thought if the sex scenes were going to be the only action in the film it should have been done better and more sensual also there was no real verbal action no feeling that she was going to get caught in the beginning you had a feeling that tony lueng knew but they didn't build on it which i wish they did. there was just little moments here there but i wish they would just built upon it. but you did feel for tang wei character how she was just basically used and abused by both lueng and her own people. the story was great but the way it was told was wrong.

[sanjuro_ronin]

i think when shooting sex scenes you have to make it sensual you have make the audience feel aroused by watching the scene instead of being disturbed like lust caution's love scenes also on a personal note i hated seeing tony luengs ball sack they could've kept that shot to themselves.

LOL !!

Seriously, how explicit was it?
Comparable to what movie(s) ?

[doug maverick]

this movie goes right under in the realm of sence's when it comes to the sex scenes which means your gonna think tony is really plowing her. but its not attractive at all cause it looks like tony is raping the chick

[sanjuro_ronin]

this movie goes right under in the realm of sence's when it comes to the sex scenes which means your gonna think tony is really plowing her. but its not attractive at all cause it looks like tony is raping the chick

Eww..never cared for that crap...only one scene?

[doug maverick]

i didn't like that film at all. but there's a film worst then both these films combined its a french film call anatomy of hell. you have to have astrong stomach for that one

[sanjuro_ronin]

i didn't like that film at all. but there's a film worst then both these films combined its a french film call anatomy of hell. you have to have astrong stomach for that one

Yes, that one was quite disturbing, so was bassie moi.

[doug maverick]

was bassei moi the one with the girl going around f ucking and killing guys yeah that was pretty crazy but doesn't beat the bloody d!ck scene or the period blood tea scene in anatomy of hell

[sanjuro_ronin]

was bassei moi the one with the girl going around f ucking and killing guys yeah that was pretty crazy but doesn't beat the bloody d!ck scene or the period blood tea scene in anatomy of hell

Yep that's the one and yep, I agree.
Rocco should stick to porn.

[doug maverick]

yea that was just disturbing

[sanjuro_ronin]

yea that was just disturbing

Dman french !
:D

[doug maverick]

yeah those movies are meant to shock but they don't have any real structure

[GeneChing]

sex being scissored - that sounds painful. Reminds me of what happened to the U.S. version of Eyes Wide Shut.



Lust, Caution to Premiere on Chinese Mainland (http://english.cri.cn/3086/2007/10/31/1301@289786.htm)
2007-10-31 21:31:09

Taiwan director Ang Lee's spy thriller "Lust, Caution", also this year's Golden Lion winner, is to premiere on the Chinese mainland tonight.

After several times' put-off, the blockbuster will finally roll to mainland theaters midnight Wednesday.

Director Ang Lee is expected to bring cast members Tang Wei and Lee-Hom Wang to Shanghai for the premiere, also the only promotion on the mainland.

The mainland version of the film is 145 minutes long, with several minutes' plot involving sex being scissored.

"Lust, Caution" is vying for this year's Golden Horse Film Awards, which will be announced on December 8 in Taiwan.

The film is based on a short novel of the same name, written by famous Chinese woman author Eileen Chang (Zhang Ailing, 1921-1995).

[doug maverick]

now that movie is going tyo be super boring. then again its very patriotic for the chinese so they might like it.

[GeneChing]

Ang is Taiwan's proud son.


2 Chinese films withdraw from Taiwan's Golden Horse Awards, organizers change shortlist (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/11/13/arts/AS-A-E-MOV-China-Taiwan-Movie-Politics.php)
The Associated Press
Published: November 13, 2007

HONG KONG: China's government has prompted two acclaimed mainland directors to pull their movies from Taiwan's Golden Horse Awards, forcing major changes to the shortlist of nominees just weeks before the top event in Chinese-language cinema.

The two films violated Chinese government policy banning films with exclusive mainland investment from competing at the Taiwanese event, a Chinese film official said Tuesday.

China and Taiwan split amid civil war in 1949 and have been ruled separately since. Beijing, however, still views Taiwan as part of its territory and has threatened to retake it by force.

In a new nomination list issued late Monday, Golden Horse organizers replaced best film entry "Tuya's Marriage" — a Wang Quanan movie that won top Golden Bear prize at the Berlin Film Festival in February — with the Hong Kong police thriller "Eye in the Sky."

Wang was also nominated in the best director category, along with compatriot Li Yang, who was nominated for "Blind Mountain." The two have been replaced by China's Jiang Wen and Hong Kong's Derek Yee, according to the new list.

Yu Nan, who played an Inner Mongolian herdswoman who considers a second marriage to a wealthy man so she can afford to care for her handicapped husband in "Tuya's Marriage," was withdrawn from the best actress competition, with Taiwan's Rene Liu from "Kidnap" taking her spot.

Luan Guozhi, director of international cooperation at China's Film Bureau, told The Associated Press in a phone interview that directors Li and Wang withdrew their movies because Beijing doesn't allow fully Chinese-financed films to compete at the Golden Horses, which it views as a Taiwanese event.

"The Golden Horse Awards evaluates Taiwanese movies. We don't think mainland-made movies can be considered Taiwanese movies," he said, adding that China-Taiwan and China-foreign co-productions didn't fall under the ban.

The awards are open to all Chinese-language films, and the organizers take pride the event's status as the Chinese Oscars. But Beijing is keen to limit Taiwan's international standing for fear it may formalize its de facto independence.

Luan said the Golden Horse Awards "isn't an international festival, like Cannes or Berlin."

Director Li said he regretted not being able to compete in Taiwan but that he expected China to relax its restrictions gradually.

"Of course I hope the movie can take part in film festivals, win awards and boost its recognition," he said.

He declined to say if he was forced to pull "Blind Mountain," about a young woman who's unknowingly sold as a bride to a farmer, because of its sensitive subject. Li previously said Chinese censors asked him to change the script but he declined to reveal the changes.

A woman who answered the phone at the offices of Wang Le, one of the executive producers of "Tuya's Marriage," said the filmmaker wasn't immediately available for comment.

The changes to the Golden Horse shortlist don't affect the front-runner status of native son Ang Lee, whose spy thriller "Lust, Caution" bagged 11 nominations.

The winners will be announced Dec. 8 in Taipei.

[GeneChing]

I still haven't seen this, and probably won't until it gets to DVD.


Ang Lee leads pack for Golden Horse awards (http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=entertainmentNews&storyID=2007-12-06T041734Z_01_PEK12909_RTRIDST_0_ENTERTAINMENT-TAIWAN-FILM-AWARDS-COL.XML&archived=False)
Wed Dec 5, 2007 11:17 PM EST140
By Doug Young

TAIPEI (Reuters) - Ang Lee's steamy "Lust, Caution" is the odds-on favorite to clean up at the 2007 Taiwan Golden Horse Awards, the most coveted Chinese-language film prizes, in a year where China-Taiwan politics has played a controversial role.

Despite a low profile in the West, the Golden Horse is a star-studded occasion, with top talent from Taiwan, Hong Kong and China turning out each year for the red-carpet event in Taipei.

Lee's movie, his most prominent Chinese-language film since "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon," has been nominated for 12 awards, including best film and best director, at a ceremony set for Saturday in his native Taiwan.

The movie, which won the Golden Lion at the Venice film festival, is competing for best film with three lesser known titles. "The Home Song Stories," about a Hong Kong nightclub singer who emigrates to Australia, "Getting Home," about a Chinese migrant worker returning home after a sudden death, and "what on earth have i done wrong?!," a political comedy.

"Lust" has the advantage of far more publicity than any of its rivals, having screened for several months in Taiwan, said Lee Yun-fen of the Chinese Taipei Film Archive.

"It should have pretty strong chances because so many people have seen it," she said. "It's very persuasive."

The awards feature mostly films from Taiwan and Hong Kong. In addition to Lee, luminaries on this year's list include Hong Kong film stars Tony Leung and Aaron Kwok, and China-born Joan Chen, who burst on to the movie scene in Bernardo Bertolucci's "The Last Emperor" in 1987.

Taiwan pop star Jay Chou is also up for outstanding Taiwanese filmmaker of the year for his directorial debut "Secret."

China, which has claimed sovereignty over self-ruled Taiwan since the end of the Chinese civil war in 1949, doesn't allow its movies to compete, though co-productions between Chinese and foreign houses are allowed.

Despite the ban, two mainland films, "Tuya's Marriage" and "Blind Mountain," were submitted by film makers this year, only to be forced to withdraw later, creating a gap in the nominee list that had to be hastily filled.

"This is a question of their policy," said a spokeswoman for the show. "'Tuya's Marriage' was entered at the film company's own request. In the end it was China that made them withdraw."

Organizers said they were hopeful that mainland productions might be allowed to participate next year.

Cultural exchanges have increased across the Taiwan Strait in the last decade, but political relations have been icy during the seven-year tenure of President Chen Shui-bian, whose Democratic Progressive Party favors independence.

"Lust, Caution," about a Chinese woman tasked with killing a Japanese collaborator in Shanghai during World War Two, has also been the subject of controversy, with some decrying it for being too long and others critical of its graphic sex scenes.

The film drew additional attention when China said it would cut some scenes before screening it there.

[doug maverick]

well its out of theaters now. but you should have seen it gene. its an amazing film.

[GeneChing]

Good for Ang Lee. Too bad there wasn't any martial arts in the film....


Ang Lee's "Lust" gallops away with 7 Golden Horses (http://in.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idINIndia-30891120071208)
Sat Dec 8, 2007 10:22pm IST
By Doug Young

TAIPEI (Reuters) - Ang Lee's steamy "Lust, Caution" trotted off as the big winner on Saturday at the 2007 Golden Horse awards, the most coveted Chinese-language film prizes, picking up seven honours including best director and best film.

Despite its low profile in the West, the Golden Horse is a spectacular occasion for the Chinese-speaking world, with top talent from Taiwan, Hong Kong and China turning out each year for the red-carpet event in Taipei.

"Lust, Caution," the favourite going into the star-studded event, also helped Lee win the award for outstanding Taiwanese filmmaker of the year.

"This is for the lack of respect that Taiwan has gotten in the past," Lee said backstage, after getting the outstanding Taiwanese filmmmaker award. "My point of view, my style are all from Taiwan. So I'm very much representing Taiwan."

"Lust" also won best leading actor honours for Hong Kong star Tony Leung Chiu Wei.

"Lust," Lee's most prominent Chinese-language film since "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon", won the Golden Lion at the Venice film festival, and had the advantage of much stronger publicity than its rivals.

The awards feature mostly films from Taiwan and Hong Kong. In addition to Lee and Leung, luminaries on this year's list included Hong Kong film star Aaron Kwok and China-born Joan Chen, who burst on to the movie scene in Bernardo Bertolucci's "The Last Emperor" in 1987.

Chen returned to the limelight at this year's Golden Horses, picking up the best leading actress award for her role in "The Home Song Stories".

Pop star Jay Chou's directorial debut "Secret" also did well, winning awards for best original song and visual effects, as well as the outstanding Taiwanese film of the year.

This year's show was also marked by controversy when two mainland Chinese films "Tuya's Marriage" and "Blind Mountain", were submitted by film makers, only to be forced to withdraw later.

China, which has claimed sovereignty over self-ruled Taiwan since the end of the Chinese civil war in 1949, doesn't allow its movies to compete, though co-productions between Chinese and foreign houses are allowed.

Cultural exchanges have increased across the Taiwan Strait in the last decade, but political relations have been icy during the seven-year tenure of President Chen Shui-bian, whose Democratic Progressive Party favours independence.

"Lust, Caution," about a Chinese woman tasked with killing a Japanese collaborator in Shanghai during World War Two, has also been the subject of controversy, with some decrying it for being too long and others critical of its graphic sex scenes.

The film drew additional attention when China said it would cut some scenes before screening it there.

Despite its success to date, Taiwan was prohibited from submitting "Lust" for the Academy Awards foreign film category after the Academy ruled its cast was too international.

Lee said he was not optimistic about the film's chances in the next year's other Academy Award categories, as the film has not been very well received in the United States, in part due to its explicit sexual content, resulting in an adults-only rating.

[doug maverick]

i think this film woud've sucked if one ****ing kick was thrown. on the other hand i would've liked to see more action and less of tony's ball sack.

[GeneChing]

... but for some reason, this article is the first one that makes me want to see it.


Asians love 'Lust'; Yanks cautious (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117978126.html?categoryid=1278&cs=1)
Ang Lee film grossed $16.8 million in China
By PATRICK FRATER
HONG KONG -- Ang Lee's "Lust, Caution" is an almost perfect example of a cultural divide.

So far, the Chinese-language film has grossed $4.4 million in North America, while overseas it's scooped up 10 times that amount: a lusty $44 million, with much of it coming from Asia.

Asians went gaga over the film's mix of hanky-panky and politics. But the sex was not enough to lure Americans, perhaps because the sexual grapplers were speaking Chinese in a 157-minute movie.

Four decades ago, the sex-centric "I Am Curious (Yellow)" was also subtitled and grossed big in the U.S. "Lust" couldn't match that feat, but it helped break down the stigma of NC-17 in the U.S.: Despite conventional wisdom, it was booked by major chains and most newspapers had no trouble carrying the ads.

Speaking of the contrasting cultural -- and box office -- reactions to his film, director Lee says, "I didn't imagine that the difference was so big."

In Hong Kong it's been in the B.O. top 10 for 82 days and has grossed $6.2 million. In Taiwan, it broke box office records and became one of the country's biggest grossers of all time, in addition to winning nearly all the silverware at the recent Golden Horse kudosfest.

In China its cume since the Nov. 1 release stands at $16.8 million, making it the fifth- highest grosser of the year and the top Chinese-language movie to date (though it may lose that crown to "The Warlords").

If Lee and co-writer James Schamus could not quite bridge the width of the Pacific Ocean, they united auds in Greater China, Hong Kong and Taiwan. Lee says he was surprised by how mainland Chinese auds lapped up the version from which the three major sex scenes were virtually eliminated at the behest of the censor.

"I've never before known a Chinese movie that's well liked in all three major parts of China," Lee says.

The film may not have been the biggest grosser in China, but it is surely the most discussed pic of the year. There was endless talk about the seven minutes of sex scenes that were eventually sliced by director Lee in collaboration with the censors. As a bonus, Chinese medics fueled interest in the pic by warning that the sex scenes should not be copied by ordinary members of the public.

And the film's steamy sex scenes sparked a public debate -- a rarity in China -- about the country's one-certificate-fits-all rating system.

Many Chinese crossed the border to Hong Kong where they could watch the uncensored movie. Returning home, they stirred the word of mouth in China.

While the film was not immune from disc and online piracy, it was a big hit nonetheless. The film won the Golden Lion at the Venice Film Festival, so Lee was treated as a national hero in both Taiwan, where he was born, and in China -- ironic, since his previous "Brokeback Mountain" was not even allowed a Chinese release. And "Lust" originally looked like it might not get an outing either unless up to half an hour was cut.

The film is the first major one to deal with a period in history that many Asians are curious about: The Japanese occupation of China during World War II.

The political content has set leftists against moderates, been branded as a "traitor movie" and seen students petition the Ministry of Culture for a ban on the grounds that it is sympathetic to Japanese colonialism. Others said it did a disservice to virtuous Chinese women.

The China release was pushed back from late September until November when the political sensitivities of the Communist Party Congress would have dissipated.

The pic's North American box office is respectable for a foreign-language film, but a big drop from Lee's previous "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" and "Brokeback Mountain."

In hindsight, it's clear that the $100 million U.S. perf for "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" is the exception, not the norm for foreign-language releases. "It's not very audience-friendly for a market like the U.S. It's not their subject matter," Lee admitted at the Venice film festival.

In fleshing out Eileen Chang's novella, co-scripters Lee and Schamus sought to balance Western need for narrative and Asian preference for mood and character.

"Even the most favorable reviews (in the U.S.) say the movie is too slow," Lee says. "But from the Chinese audience, the biggest complaint was that it happened too quick. The historical background that is built into our genes is different. American people have never been occupied. The deep sadness and sentimentality, the cultural background that relates to melodrama that (Chinese) grew up with and propaganda..."

When the MPAA slapped its NC-17 rating on the film, the people at Focus and the filmmakers were not surprised: They had made and edited the film with the sense that this was going to be its rating.

"Before we released the film, the NC-17 was a topic of conversation, but it became a non-issue as it rolled across the country," says Jack Foley, Focus prez of theatrical distribution.

"It redefined NC-17, which needed an appropriate definition -- it was an abused rating," says Foley. "Just as 'Brokeback Mountain' put a different perspective on how America deals with the subject of ****sexuality in film, 'Lust, Caution' brought about an understanding of what NC-17 can mean and should mean."

Major circuits like Regal and AMC had no issue with booking the film, Foley says. "They were conscious of what they were getting into and they were unafraid," he says.

Both Focus and the circuits made sure it was booked into appropriate theaters -- i.e., the right cities, the right neighborhoods.

Debunking conventional wisdom, most newspapers had no issue with accepting NC-17 ads, except for Salt Lake City. "The biggest problem the film faced was its running time. It restricted the film to one, maybe two good shows a day," says Foley.

"Lust" was conceived as a partnership between East and West, mixing coin from River Road and Focus Features in the U.S. with that of Hai Sheng of China and Edko Films of Hong Kong. It was also Lee's 10th collaboration with Schamus.

Just a few days ago, Lee confessed that he trimmed and tweaked the mainland Chinese version for political reasons too. He changed some of the dialogue of Wei Tang's character near the end in order to make her intentions less ambiguous and more patriotic. "Go quickly," for instance became, "Let's go."

That's a degree of subtlety so fine that it would have been lost on many abroad. But Lee explained to an audience in Taipei last week: "The Chinese have thousands of years of experience in the craft of subtle wording and reading between the lines."

[doug maverick]

have you seen it yet?

[SPJ]

so I bought the 2 versions of the movies.

the abridged one without violence and sex scenes.

and the unabridged one.

overall, it is ok.

me familar with the spy stories during WWII.

for the most part, the plots were convincing enough.

The dude worked for Japanese intelligence and Wang Jin Wei government in Nan King. He was supposed to be the bad guy. Somehow it was protrayed as the good guy and that unsettled many audience in China.

some controversy.

Wang government actually ran nan king and shang hai well during WWII. He had a good financial/economic plan.

While Chung King government was bombed all the time and low on resources and finance.

While Yan An communists enjoyed a good agricultural economy.

True, if you work for Japanese and the puppet regime, you are a traitor and sell out.

However, the government did provide some security and stability among Chinese populace within Japanese occupied China.

Both nan king and shang hai were full of all kinds of spies, nationalist, communist, japanese, CIA what have you.

--

the main thing is that Lee Ang tried to tell a story based on (focusing on) the maturing and growing up college girl.

--

I dun like the ending that both the girl and her boy friend were shot in the end. It seemed that the bad guy prevailed.

--

the ladies playing ma jong scenes and gossiping and that is 100% real life.

--

:D

[jethro]

Ouch! You just hit me in the eye with a major spoiler at the end of that post.

[doug maverick]

so I Bought The 2 Versions Of The Movies.

The Abridged One Without Violence And Sex Scenes.

And The Unabridged One.

Overall, It Is Ok.

Me Familar With The Spy Stories During Wwii.

For The Most Part, The Plots Were Convincing Enough.

The Dude Worked For Japanese Intelligence And Wang Jin Wei Government In Nan King. He Was Supposed To Be The Bad Guy. Somehow It Was Protrayed As The Good Guy And That Unsettled Many Audience In China.

Some Controversy.

Wang Government Actually Ran Nan King And Shang Hai Well During Wwii. He Had A Good Financial/economic Plan.

While Chung King Government Was Bombed All The Time And Low On Resources And Finance.

While Yan An Communists Enjoyed A Good Agricultural Economy.

True, If You Work For Japanese And The Puppet Regime, You Are A Traitor And Sell Out.

However, The Government Did Provide Some Security And Stability Among Chinese Populace Within Japanese Occupied China.

Both Nan King And Shang Hai Were Full Of All Kinds Of Spies, Nationalist, Communist, Japanese, Cia What Have You.

--

The Main Thing Is That Lee Ang Tried To Tell A Story Based On (focusing On) The Maturing And Growing Up College Girl.

--

I Dun Like The Ending That Both The Girl And Her Boy Friend Were Shot In The End. It Seemed That The Bad Guy Prevailed.

--

The Ladies Playing Ma Jong Scenes And Gossiping And That Is 100% Real Life.

--

:d

Dude Talk About Spoiler Alert ****. People Still Haven't Seen This Film Yet. I've Seen It And Maybe A Few Others

[SPJ]

OOPs.

I thought everyone already seen the movie.

now that the cat is out of the bag.

1. Young college people have plays to raise money for war efforts. They joined agency etc For a greater cause or greater justice, they died. They died the right way. Just like so many young people at the time. Either joined the army to fight on the battlefields, or do something helpful for their country.

2. Liang followed the Wang government and had to work against his own former colleages and schoolmates in KMT intelligence agency.

--

Liang could not even keep his favorite or most cherished/loved woman/pet. Liang could only remember her with his memory.

Liang had many bloods on his hands and chagrins. These are all eating away his conscience or soul.---

All are victims of war.

Like so many people at the time, we all lose something. Your life, your home, your loved ones---- your SOUL etc

This is why people protesting that Lee Ang was protraying Liang as a victim or good dude in the movie.

--

as a serious artist or movie maker/story teller.

sometimes, we have to say what life actually is. or tell a story as what it is.

--

The movies was based on true people and their life story.

There are many twists and turns in the minds or psychology of all the people involved.

--

sometimes, the journey or the trip is more fun/important than the destination/end.

--

;):D

[SPJ]

what I was trying to say is that

go watch the movie.

It is a mission impossible.

see how lee ang tell you the story.

:)

[GeneChing]

Nope. I got so many bad reviews from friends that it keeps getting bumped down on my viewing list. I know, as an Asian cinemaphile, I really should see it. But I have a copy of Dragon Dynasty's Heroes of the East waiting for me still unwatched, along with a ton of others in the queue.... :o

[SPJ]

on the sex scenes

my brothers are saying they sucks or not tasteful.

I said that well sex is just sex so much so violence is violence.

it is what it is.

however, we all like this part.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=towfXZhn9Xo

since the story happened in 1938.

this is a popular song in the 30'.

if any thing has to be changed.

I say the title.

Pink mission. quiet mission, especial mission, assasination etc.

Lust is ok. no need to caution or forbidding. Lust caution meaning Liang should concentrate on his "job" which is murdering agents and interrogating agents from the other side. Lust would kill him.

An affection or love affair may be is what he needed to quiet his mind or soothe his soul among all the madness of killing his own countryman?

The title should focus on the girl that did the sacrifice and pretend to love a man she hated most. and at critical moment, she decided to save the dude. fall in love with enemy? or understanding another wounded soul? and finally she died without regrets along with her true love college friend?

Nobody expected the mission to be successful. They are all willing to try and die for a greater cause. If ending of one man's (Liang) life may save many?

I hold the same respect for her.

so much so for Jing Ke the swordsman tried and failed to assasinate Qin first emperor.

They both are generous enough to give up their lives for a greater cause.

--

In short, I like the movie. Well, my brother said I am a big sucker/fan for agent and spy story anyway.

--

:D;)

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y3W2KCtbds

Jing Ke hid the sword inside a map.

When he showed the qin shi huang the map, the sword came out.

--

ready to attempt a mission impossible.

the emperor and his assasin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9clCkUan7s&feature=related

:(:cool:

[SimonM]

Lust / Caution bored me to tears. I'd read good reviews. I forgot that Ang Lee paces his films roughly to coincide with the passing of geological epochs.