Kulo in Guangzhou

[imperialtaichi]

Hello,

Just came back from my usual Tai Chi training trip from Beijing; but this time I made a detour with two of my students to Guangzhou and had the fortune to meet a Master Leung who teaches Kulo Wing Chun in the slum area close to the city.

I was most impressed with their methods of taking the opponent's ability to fight back by destroying his/her momentum both physically and mentally, and continuing trapping the opponent and rendering him/her unbalanced and unable to generate any strength.

I am also most impressed with the practicality; after all, it evolved in the slum where fighting is part of survival. Unlike most of us in the western world where we do martial arts to better ourselves, they were doing it to stay alive. Some of the moves are down right dirty (though very effective) including how to use and deal with concealed weapons and even how to best use a couple of beer bottles!

Training was hard, but they toned it down a bit for us "city slickers". None the less we got some bruises, but we are happily wearing them and must thank the Kulo Master and the training brothers for sharing their art, even though they knew we are Tai Chi practitioners.

Cheers,
John

[Vajramusti]

Any more details on their teaching methods?

Thanks for sharing.

joy chaudhuri

[LoneTiger108]

If this is the case, the style you're referring to is probably the 12 point/set system which was specifically designed for self defence and quick learning. Originally put together by Leung Jan himself I believe, but variations have been seen especially in the Yuen Kay San and Lee Shing Families.

This set was normally taught before any standardized Wing Chun Forms, as it tends to include certain tricks and counter attacks to common Martial Art postures.

[imperialtaichi]

If this is the case, the style you're referring to is probably the 12 point/set system which was specifically designed for self defence and quick learning. Originally put together by Leung Jan himself I believe

Hello Lone Tiger,

Yes, I'm just translating from the Cantonese pronounciation, which could be Kulo or Gulao... kind of :)

The system Master Leung teaches has 22points/moves, but he is not very strict on the form and each of his students does it with a different flavour.

He did say it was put together by Leung Jan, and was taught to his son only.

The moves are so **** easy to learn and effective, I was most impressed. Some of the moves when looking at it one would say "it does not look like it would work", yet when being use they were darn handy.

Master Leung was half joking about his Wing Chun: "What makes good Kung Fu? When you can CHEAT better than your opponent!" Which makes a lot of sense when you think about it.

Cheers,
John

[Ultimatewingchun]

"The moves are so **** easy to learn and effective, I was most impressed. Some of the moves when looking at it one would say 'it does not look like it would work', yet when being use they were darn handy." (John)

***Can you give us an example of such a move?

[LoneTiger108]

The system Master Leung teaches has 22points/moves, but he is not very strict on the form and each of his students does it with a different flavour.

I only mention the 40 point system, as its something I read once and I was aware that there have been different 'San Sau' based versions of Wing Chun for some time now. I like the way you describe the techs, as that is their true purpose!

Someone once said to me that without an understanding of these loose hand ideas, teaching becomes quite difficult once the student if efficient in fist plays.

[imperialtaichi]

***Can you give us an example of such a move?

Ok, for example they like to counter a strike by pulling your elbow from underneath to the side. As opposed to a more conventional block from the side, or sliding in from the top of the arm.

Why was it good?
1. when the opponent's elbow is controlled, both his/her fist and elbow becomed useless.
2. by pulling him/her to the side, his/her other arm turns away from you making it useless as well.
3. taking the opponent's balance out at the same time, hense taking away his/her power.
4. the opponent's side/floating ribs becomes exposed, becoming an easy and effective target.
5. an underhand is harder to see, hence easier to sneak in.
6. Element of surprise, as it is not a common technique.

Please, I am not here to compare which W.C. is better. I do not have the expertise to make such comparisons. I am just expressing my experiences in Guangzhou.

Cheers,
John

[Jim Roselando]

Hello,


All WC is pretty much the same and that includes Kulo variations.

The mother of Kulo arts is the 12 Fists. All stem from that source. Although YKS and others have San Sik training, some even have the same number, the 12 Fist system Leung Jan taught should not be considered a quicky pre-training like San Sik usually is looked at. Its best thought of as a mini or condensed SLT/CK/BJ/Wing Chun art containing the great masters knowledge.

The 22 Point system comes from Fung Lim (fei lo lim). He developed it and taught it to his son in law who is the main source of that system on the mainland I believe? They sell a video of the 22 point system containing its fist methods.

Hope this helps.

[Vajramusti]

Thanks again for your posts. Illustrations of ideas that run through all of wing chun...as Jim pointed out.

joy chaudhuri

[LoneTiger108]

Hello,


All WC is pretty much the same and that includes Kulo variations.

The mother of Kulo arts is the 12 Fists. All stem from that source. Although YKS and others have San Sik training, some even have the same number, the 12 Fist system Leung Jan taught should not be considered a quicky pre-training like San Sik usually is looked at. Its best thought of as a mini or condensed SLT/CK/BJ/Wing Chun art containing the great masters knowledge.

The 22 Point system comes from Fung Lim (fei lo lim). He developed it and taught it to his son in law who is the main source of that system on the mainland I believe? They sell a video of the 22 point system containing its fist methods.

Hope this helps.

Nice to see some real info on here, although I'm only in my second day this post by Jim is pure gold. My question is, are you referring to Fung Sang (Fung Lims son)? If so, then maybe this would explain why these ideas are so familiar to me! I agree 100% that the 12 Fist System is a unique core, and I've also heard it referred to as Dai Nim Tao or a 'Lady' Form.

It would obviously be good to see the video you mention, so if anyone else can help here...

[Jim Roselando]

Hello,


My question is, are you referring to Fung Sang (Fung Lims son)?

No. Fung Lim's "son in law" does not have the surname Fung. The 22 point art is Fung Lim's developed art for public teaching. Some say he blended some of his previous Fukien knowledge in with some of his 12 Fist Pin Sun Kung Fu knoweldge to creat the art but when watched it just looks like WC skills to me!

This is the "root" source of a story that PSWC was combined with Fukien to create a tougher system by the Fung's legend. They were talking about Fung Lim's art and not Pin Sun proper. Fung Sang is Fung Lim's son and preserved the 12 Fist art and not the 22 Point system. Fung Sang's brother/student lives in Boston.

The 22 point system is a very popular version of Kulo Kung Fu.

:)

Peace,
Jim

[t_niehoff]

All WC is pretty much the same and that includes Kulo variations.

Amen. If it were not the same, it would be something else. :)

[tjwingchun]

Ok, for example they like to counter a strike by pulling your elbow from underneath to the side. As opposed to a more conventional block from the side, or sliding in from the top of the arm.

Why was it good?
1. when the opponent's elbow is controlled, both his/her fist and elbow becomed useless.
2. by pulling him/her to the side, his/her other arm turns away from you making it useless as well.
3. taking the opponent's balance out at the same time, hense taking away his/her power.
4. the opponent's side/floating ribs becomes exposed, becoming an easy and effective target.
5. an underhand is harder to see, hence easier to sneak in.
6. Element of surprise, as it is not a common technique.

Please, I am not here to compare which W.C. is better. I do not have the expertise to make such comparisons. I am just expressing my experiences in Guangzhou.

Cheers,
John

Sounds good, from reading, which can be misleading, it sounds very much like how I apply a Tok Sau.

I fully concur with all the forms of Wing Chun, I keep making the statement of Wing Chun being the understanding of personal body mechanics applied to violent confrontation, the personal aspect will always lead to variations, but as long as the fundemental principles of reality and commonsense prevail there should be many similarities throughout all fighting skills.

It is not the different versions that cause disagreement and resentment, but those in the game of self promotion.

[imperialtaichi]

...but as long as the fundemental principles of reality and commonsense prevail there should be many similarities throughout all fighting skills.

It is not the different versions that cause disagreement and resentment, but those in the game of self promotion.

Hello TJWingChun,

Agree. There are only so many ways human can move effectively and efficiently.

Wing Chun, Tai Chi, Bagua, Xingyi, BJJ, Karate, Aikido, Shaolin, Pakmei, Boxing, Fencing, Systema, Sumo etc; even Kalaripayattu. When we see through the differences and our own ego, there's always something new to learn, always some new ways to better ourselves.

Cheers,
John

[couch]

It would obviously be good to see the video you mention, so if anyone else can help here...

I second this motion!

Thanks,
Kenton Sefcik

[LoneTiger108]

Not wanting to quote anyone in particular, it interestes me to see this thread open the oldest idea in our great world! The similarities between all Martial Arts, not just the families of Wing Chun. And I can not stress that enough, Wing Chun is a family style, no different than the Gracie 'way'. The only thing that separates us all is the same thing that separates communities across the globe.

Language. Pure and simple. Its all just language!!

Just as Kulo is Gulao and Yong Chun is Wing Chun AND Ving Tsun AND Wing Tsun etc etc etc lol! After all, if all we're talking of here is the human body its the same as understanding the 'shakra' to be the 'dantien' and the 'age-uke' to be a 'hok-bong'.

My question is do other people get what I'm saying? Or has the English language itself made us all so complex that we're blind to the truth? Mmmmmm I hope not...