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B-Rad
10-02-2007, 08:32 PM
Got two names for you MA historians out there...

Sing Lee (nick name "Victory" Lee) and Eizo Shimabuku

Here's where I got the names from:

>
> Many students have asked me to write down the oral
> history of the Shaolin
> Tiger system. Over the years I have been involved in
> dozens of conversations
> with the art's Grandmaster and American founder, R. A.
> Greenlee. During the
> course of these talks, and by attending cllinics and
> lectures given by
> Grandmaster Greenlee, I've been given insights into
> the origins of this
> unique martial art that has risen from obscurity to
> national recognition as
> a result of the great accomplishments of its
> practitioners. The Shaolin
> Tiger system was first taught to R. A. Greenlee by his
> teacher, Sing Lee.
> Greenlee, an american serviceman, was studying
> hard-style karate in Okinawa
> with the now-famous master, Eizo Shimabuku. Greenlee,
> his top heavyweight
> fighter, noticed that his teacher stepped out of class
> every week at the
> same time and did not return for several hours.
> Curious to discover his
> master's whereabouts, he asked Shimabuku where he went
> each week. Instead of
> answering the query, Shimabuku invited Greenlee to go
> with him. It was then
> that Greenlee found out the karate master had been
> practicing kung fu all
> along!
>
> Although Greenlee was a senior student and highly
> accomplished in his
> teacher's style, he could not resist the urge to learn
> kung fu with Sing
> Lee. He was brought into the Shaolin Tiger school with
> his teacher's
> permission and soon became the top practitioner of the
> art. Sing Lee's
> nickname was Victory Lee based on his ring-fighting
> record and the winning
> caliber of the stable of fighters he maintained.
>
> As Greenlee learned Sing Lee's art, he couldn't help
> but notice the many
> differences between it and other kung fu styles he'd
> seen. Sing Lee
> explained that he had learned over 70 different
> classical foms and, based on
> his experience, each one had only a few moves that
> were practical and worth
> training in. Rather than deleting the use of forms
> altogether, Sing Lee
> edited them down into the sets that Greenlee learned
> and that we use to this
> day.
>
> Even though the classical 70 were reduced and
> recompiled to less than 24,
> Grandmaster Greenlee has since boiled down the Shaolin
> Tiger system into its
> essence, the six short fighting sets known to us as
> Tiger Blocking Forms 1
> through 6. The ring techniques including leg kicks,
> knees, and elbows, and
> special spiking and covering methods, as well as the
> line drills, weapons
> training, and the traditional long forms make up the
> art as we know it.
>
> Sing Lee passed away over 25 years ago and, since
> then, little of the art
> has been passed on in the orient. The late Grandmaster
> had a daughter who
> was a skilled practitioner but had little interest in
> teaching.
>
> Due to the evolution of our martial art from classical
> to what, for us, is
> traditional, it is harder to catagorize as being
> northern or southern.
> Furthermore, the ring techniques taught by Sing Lee
> and developed by
> Greenlee cannot be called Burmese or Thai because they
> include unique
> Chinese methodology as well. If pressed, we would have
> to say that our art
> is a hybrid southern style with an emphasis on Golden
> Triangle ring
> techniques. In fact, Grandmaster Greenlee retired as
> the undefeated
> heavyweight Golden Triangle oriental kickboxing
> champion. He was 12-0!

It's a bio of "Grandmaster Greenlee" of the Shaolin Iron Tiger System written by Matt Molica that I was forwarded. I know it sounds far fetched, but I'd like to know more about these two teachers first. While I was told Greenlee basically modified previous Tae Kwon Do training, he's still much better than almost any TKD practitioner I've ever come across. Anyway, thanks for any info you could give.

David Jamieson
10-03-2007, 09:46 AM
well, seems like some self aggrandizement is going on, but this is not uncommon in martial arts circles to begin with.

"shaolin tiger" is a pretty broad term and isn't really a distinctive style name, but rather, shaolin tiger principles, techniques et al exist in several well known systems of chinese martial teachings.

Anyway, kungfu was spread about like butter on bread at a thanksgiving dinner but I would say that in teh old days there was an improbability involved in Chinese teaching Japanese anything martial.

For one thing, the racist tensions between the two nations really prevents it from happening to any degree even to this day.

Japanese Karatedo experts have a superiority complex more often than not in regards to chinese martial arts and CMA people tend to regard Karate as rough around the edges and too simple. I am being a little on the general side here, but mostly true. The real bridge between the two is in european and north american people who are exposed to both.

I tend to have doubts about old japanese studying with old chinese, mostly because i have my doubts about old anyone being open to much more than what they already have.

maybe I'm just a cynic, but this story sounds like a hundred other attempts at being "special" in a world of "not so special" really.

cest la vie.

:)

sanjuro_ronin
10-03-2007, 09:58 AM
Shimabuku is a top level shorin-ryu guy, I forget his relationship to Tatsuo Shimabuku, the founder of Isshin-ryu.
He is Okinanwan as his karate system is.

mkriii
10-05-2007, 12:53 PM
David, you are so right about the hostility between the Chinese and Japanese. I have a funny story to tell......I worked in a Chinese resaurant and they would not use Kikkoman soy sauce because it was Japanese soy sauce. I had asked what kind of soy sauce they used and if it was Kikkoman and they started cussing to themselves about the Japanese. It was funny.

sanjuro_ronin
10-05-2007, 01:03 PM
Eizo and Tatsuo were brothers by the way, don't know why I forgot that...