Triad Gangs and Kung Fu

[diego]

Help me find some history on this fascinating topic!:)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

December 12, 1988
Crime Gangs Exercise Vast Power in Hong Kong
By BARBARA BASLER, SPECIAL TO THE NEW YORK TIMES
LEAD: Yan Sui Kuen was only 10 years old when, in a secret midnight ceremony on a Hong Kong rooftop, he swore eternal allegiance to a triad, one of the colony's infamous organized crime gangs.

Yan Sui Kuen was only 10 years old when, in a secret midnight ceremony on a Hong Kong rooftop, he swore eternal allegiance to a triad, one of the colony's infamous organized crime gangs.

Eleven young people were initiated that hot summer night, each one *****ing his middle finger and squeezing drops of blood into a cup. After the blood was mixed with water, each youngster drank from the cup, as 40 adult triad members, wearing white headbands, watched beneath the group's brilliant red banner.

''The ceremony was very long,'' Mr. Yan, now 42, recalled. ''They read many lessons and made us swear to many things.''

The gangs are called triads because their mystic literature emphasizes a three-way relationship among heaven, earth, and man. But there is nothing fanciful about the fear they create among the people on whom they prey - the poorest of Hong Kong's 5.6 million people. Fear of Exported Gangs

Now, as Chinese stream from Hong Kong to avoid the Communist takeover in 1997, the countries accepting large numbers of these new settlers fear that Hong Kong is exporting its gangs.

''We're on the phone every day now with one police department or another wanting to know about triads,'' complained a senior Royal Hong Kong Police official. ''We don't believe there is a mass exodus of triad members from Hong Kong, but everybody out there is worried and nervous.'

Triads trace their roots back to 17th-century China, and although they call their leaders by traditional titles, such as White Paper Fan and Red Pole, they dominate many of the rough-and-tumble criminal businesses in modern Hong Kong.

Hong Kong's 15 or so active triad gangs have an estimated 20,000 members in the colony, where they have a virtual monopoly on extortion rackets, collecting payoffs from small newsstands and huge construction companies alike. Most Powerful Gangs

Their power has even attracted the attention of China's leaders. Four years ago, around the time Britain agreed to the 1997 transfer, the Chinese leader, Deng Xiaoping, observed, ''Illegal gangs in Hong Kong are very powerful, perhaps much more powerful than their counterparts in any other place.'

The gangs can be crude and brutal. Last July a triad hit man wielding a meat cleaver hacked a Hong Kong businessman to death in a tennis court parking lot in front of stunned women and children. Days earlier, police said, the man had been sent the severed head of a black dog as a warning.

Last week, in what police believe was a revenge killing, a young Chinese hairdresser having a snack in a convenience store was attacked by seven triad gang members using barbecue forks and broken bottles. The police said when they arrived the forks were still imbedded in the victim's face and body.

Triads can also be sophisticated and businesslike: the police say white-collar enterprises sometimes insure their own safety by employing several triad members in their public-relations departments. Control of Bus Routes

Along with interests in loan sharking, illegal drug sales, pornography and prostitution, triads have virtually taken over the home-contracting business here and even control which buses are allowed to operate along some of Hong Kong's busiest streets, according to a report on the gangs.

It is not difficult to discern the triad touch in certain crimes, said Brian Merritt, chief staff officer of the police organized and serious crime group.

''If a restaurant owner won't pay up the first time he is asked,'' he said, ''the next day the triad will come back at his busiest hour, and 50 triad thugs will spread out and take up all his tables. If nightclubs don't pay, they like to toss live snakes on the dance floor.''

Triad gangs control many of the colony's popular martial arts schools, provide most of the bouncers for nightclubs and many of the extras in Hong Kong kung fu movies, the police said. 'Kung Fu Stars Are Straight'

''The big kung fu stars here are straight,'' said Mr. Merritt, ''but a lot of the extras are triad members. They are the ones who practice martial arts in big numbers.''

Dennis Collins, chief superintendent of the Royal Hong Kong Police, said triads work through a variety of methods, ''sometimes by establishing near-monopolies in legitimate businesses, other times setting up illegal gambling, loan sharking and the like.''

Some triads here, he said, have ''business relationships'' with some members of Chinese gangs, called tongs, in the United States.

''But there is a big difference,'' Mr. Collins said. ''A tong may or may not be infiltrated by triad thugs. It may or may not be engaged in illegal activity. But a triad is by nature a criminal organization.'' Triads in U.S. Since 1840's

Mr. Merritt said there have been triads in America ''since the 1840's, when large numbers of Chinese immigrants arrived. Some of the U.S. tongs are simply triad fronts.'' But the Hong Kong police have no estimate of how many triad members have left the territory.

It is a crime in Hong Kong to be a member of a triad or even to claim to be a member. To charge someone, the police need only uncover triad flags or banners in an apartment or office. Mr. Collins said a case can even be made if the police find triad poems - grandiloquent works about eternity, fidelity and brotherhood that begin with phrases such as, ''In the beginning of time an oath was sworn beneath the peach tree.''

Mr. Yan, the former triad member, said young people are sometimes coerced into joining by older triad members.

''But like many others I wanted to join,'' he said. ''You needed them because of all the fights and even to go to parties. Also, I wanted to find out all the secrets.''

After years of stealing, collecting protection money and selling drugs for his triad, he drifted away and later became a born-again Christian. Gangs in Canada, Britain

In Canada a major 1988 crime report put triads at the top of the list of the most dangerous organized crime groups in the country, along with the Mafia. In Britain, police reportedly are debating lowering height requirements in order to recruit more Chinese officers to combat growing triad crime, and in the United States the Federal Bureau of Investigation routinely consults Hong Kong on triad matters, the police said.

But Mr. Merritt and Mr. Collins deny that Hong Kong is exporting triads to other countries.

''Criminal activity in Hong Kong has been fairly stable for the past 10 years, and if triad gangs were relocating, surely we would see a drop in crime,'' Mr. Collins said. While conceding that some members may be going to other countries as legal or illegal emigrants, he insisted there is ''not this mass movement that has other countries so nervous.'' Fought Against Communists

In the modern struggle for control of China, triads fought the Communists as hired thugs of the Kuomintang, fleeing to Hong Kong or Taiwan when the Communists won, Mr. Collins said. That historic enmity has fueled the rumors that triads will leave Hong Kong before 1997, he added.

In the meantime, Hong Kong has begun yet another push to break the hold of triads here, distributing ''anti-triad'' information kits to schools, filling the streets with anti-triad posters and the air waves with anti-triad commercials.

The government has launched its own version of an anti-triad ceremony, a tribunal where the disaffected can go and secretly renounce their triad membership.

Fear of triads is so great that for several months the government reportedly could not find anyone willing to lease space for the tribunal's offices, and a spokesman said it now plans to locate the group in one of its own buildings.

Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company Home Privacy Policy Search Corrections XML Help Contact Us Work for Us Back to Top

[MASTERforge]

Its quite possible that organisations this old will have their own martial styles and techniques. No doubt having special signals to recognise each other similar to the Masons.

I remember reading ages ago on the internet after being a little side tracked from research, about the Triads. It was how HSBC is owned by the triads.

The original bank Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation was created to finance British trade in the far east in 1865.

It argued that this would have been impossible without the cooperation of the Triads who had influence over the countries assets. They owned businesses, banks and had many government officials in their pocket.

So for Britain to trade successfully it had to cooperate with the Triads. This meant they were given a stake in Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation. This allowed the British to trade freely and also gave them access to otherwise closed markets.

This would make sense as a centuries old organisation would not be expected to operate on the same level of street thuggery that it began its life in.

If you look at HSBC's history it is one of acquisition. It grows through buying other companies aggressively. If those influences that created Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation still exist, they would be operating in a similar manner.

Notice the hexagon logo. It was created from the original Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation flag. Could it be a triad sign?

Whether I not this account is true, I simply do not know. But it made for some interesting reading.

What I am sure is that the Triads are not restricted to street crime, neither are the mafia. They get smart, rich and get into the financial markets. This has been proven.

[diego]

Interesting info:) I'm really interested in this subject because these street punks may be the last link to REAL Gung Fu...suppossedly my stepdad's teacher was teaching bikers in montreal in the 70's, and their is a bunch of stories of him using his martial arts, and his Hop Gar teacher has a similar background...

Htowndragon mentioned this...

"ng was 14K triad, one of the original members, #2 man, known as the dragon prince, he was the bodyguard of the dai lo.

he messed up a karate guy once, lost in a leitai match in taiwan because of fatigue but still made his opponents face swell all over, etc. i heard some gang-related stories too, he always carried a gun on him."


An old kungfumag forum member posted this...
NorthernShaolin
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 1969
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 121
diego,

Interesting reading. Master Ming was known as Master Harry Ng here.

From what I could remember, it was common knowledge that Master Ng had a small school on Powell street where he trained the Chinese Mafia soldiers late at nite. The style that he taught was Hop Gar which has always been associated with the Chinese mafia. In the past, if you mention that you learned Hop Gar, you were a thought as a ganster and regarded as a dangerous person who should not to be associated with.

It was very common in the old days for the Chinese Mafia to hire kung fu masters such as Master Ng, put up a front kung fu school, and have them train their youth gang members known as soldiers.

Master Ng's death was an effort by the Chinese mafia to stop an uprising of their soldiers and gave the excuse that Master Ng could not control his students, i.e., the trained gang soldiers. Originally the soldiers were given an assignment but were unable to complete it but still demanded payment of $2,000 from the mafia for an unsucessfully job performed. If the Chinese mafia did not pay, the soldiers threaten to expose their gambling houses and prositution houses.

As a result of the threat, the mafia hired a 15 year old kid and was assigned to shoot Master Ng who took four slugs (22-cal.), one in each knee and two in the chest. This sent a loud message to the soldiers-back off or your going to be next.

Anyway, my knowledge seems to be in line with David Chin's accounts but I really can not verify if it is true.

[GeneChing]

This isn't a stated explicitly as triad gang, but it is a martial arts gang. It may still be a triad.


Houses razed in East Timor mob rampage (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hIos_avJAfAw13bGhZyA2SZhwNMA?docId=CNG.1f469 d987692eedad6d66fb6bb381964.141)
(AFP) – 5 hours ago

DILI — Angry mobs of martial arts gang members set fire to dozens of homes Monday as they rampaged through an East Timorese town after one of their number was killed in a stabbing, police said.

More than 100 houses as well as vehicles caught fire in the unrest in Zumalai, on East Timor's southern coast, a police officer told AFP on condition of anonymity.

He said the violence was "triggered" by the stabbing of a gang member, who was also a police intelligence agent, in the town on Sunday.

"Three people are now in police custody. The security condition there is now under control," the police source said.

A military source who also refused to be identified confirmed the circumstances of the unrest.

Martial arts gangs are common in East Timor, a tiny half-island state which achieved independence from Indonesia in 2002 following a bloody referendum.

United Nations police returned full control of East Timor to the national force in March, more than four years after clashes between rival factions of the security forces threatened to push the country into civil war.

The UN will maintain a presence of up to 1,280 police to support local police until after a presidential election in 2012, when the UN peacekeeping mission plans to withdraw from the southeast Asian state.

[hskwarrior]

Its quite possible that organisations this old will have their own martial styles and techniques. No doubt having special signals to recognise each other similar to the Masons.

There was and still is a major Triad set up in Fut San. There, styles like Wing Chun, Hung Gar, and Hung Sing choy lee fut were members of the triads. and, yes indeed, there are secret signals found within the gung fu material.


Notice the hexagon logo. It was created from the original Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation flag. Could it be a triad sign?

Rhomboid, Triangle, square,Parallelogram, and a circle are the shapes used by them. after looking at their logo i see a lot of triangles in it. so its a possibility that their logo has some triad roots in it.

[mjw]

Lots of triangles in Wing Chun :eek:

[bawang]

in southern china the "kung fu villages" all used to be bandit strongholds

[Snipsky]

in southern china the "kung fu villages" all used to be bandit strongholds

especially places like Fut San.

[David Jamieson]

Crikey, you would think the entire population except for the nobles and their courts were bandits or something. lol

Family associations were also centers of kung fu learning in the early days.
Surname associations are in every chinatown in NA. Even Chin wu exists in NA now although it is not like that in China except for the direct offshoots of that school in China. Back in my hometown we had a guy who called his school ching wu even though he had never been a member of the actual, had never even been to the actual and didn't know much about the history of the actual. Anyway, here nor there and just an indication of how many in the kung fu scene in the early days was making it up as the went after watching a fresh episode of Kung Fu on TV. lol

Also, KMT support groups, ex soldiers of this nationalist organization and so on set uyp shop across the americas long ago.

these are not representative of criminal triads and between family associations and the KMT there are numerous Kung Fu schools to be found.

Criminal gangs tend to be filled with thugs and bullies. Many of whom do not have the discipline required to undertake a full course of Kung Fu as a physical regimen.

Yakuza in Japan in that respect are somewhat different because of the tie to the samurai culture etc. A different breed of triad guy.

IMO, it is the KMT schools that tend to be pretty good with the teachers in them and the curriculum offered. Other than that, case by case for me. some schools are ridiculous and I turn around as quick as a gay man accidentally entering a straight brothel! Others, not so much like that at all! :)

[bawang]

everything you said is wrong

you are big dum dum

[hskwarrior]

Crikey, you would think the entire population except for the nobles and their courts were bandits or something. lol

More than half the male population in southern china were members of some kind of society that wasn't kosher to the Qing Government. yes some were threatened to join but others joined because of the goals of specific societies. No country should ever let their people starve while the gov lives like fat cats. Human Pork Buns was a serious thing back then.


these are not representative of criminal triads and between family associations and the KMT there are numerous Kung Fu schools to be found.

I'm not a big fan of the KMT. They outright murdered one of our elders, his wife and child.


Criminal gangs tend to be filled with thugs and bullies. Many of whom do not have the discipline required to undertake a full course of Kung Fu as a physical regimen.

I can't even find the words to respond that mess. LOL. well, you're wrong there man.

[David Jamieson]

everything you said is wrong

you are big dum dum
@Bawang :rolleyes:

Yes, I"m wrong because the Kung Fu school I attended was a family association and a KMT meeting centre. lol, what you said was shortsighted and stupid. So, there you have it.

The KMT meeting centre in the region where I am now has Kung Fu training and their centres in Chinatowns across Canada, more or less all of them, have a Kung Fu sifu.

The family associations will often have a sifu as well. 2 of the ones I am familiar with have Kung Fu schools attached.

As for criminal gangs? Useless and a blight on society. I don't put much stock in their membership and don't think they have much power except when in a pack and using weapons. The Kung Fu?

not so much.

By the way, I live in Canada and the experience here is different, yet similar across the country as far as structure goes.

-You have independent schools which have been around for varying times.
-You have KMT centres in every chinatown across the country and they often include a Kung Fu teacher
-You have familiy associations that also frequently have Kung Fuu instructors
-You have Chinese cultural centres which ALL have modern wushu and Kung fu training available.
-You have amalgamated Kung Fu associations.
-You have private teachers.

We have ZERO kung fu gangs running around. The triads have been pressed so far down by the RCMP they're hardly heard of. People aren't afraid of them unless they're total FOBs so they don't get much done in most of Canada. More of a west coast Issue but concentrated in one area really. Pretty much powerless and no reach into the rest of the country for the most part. Certainly not promoting Kung Fu, these guys are scum crack dealers, smack dealers, rock/powder/down hustlers. they'll use a gun before they use any Kung Fu.

The bravado is nonsense really. Laughable. Kung Fu gangs....yeah, sure. lol

[David Jamieson]

More than half the male population in southern china were members of some kind of society that wasn't kosher to the Qing Government. yes some were threatened to join but others joined because of the goals of specific societies. No country should ever let their people starve while the gov lives like fat cats. Human Pork Buns was a serious thing back then. Well, the qing were mean weren't they. Criminals only by virtue of law and not by virtue of gang action.




I'm not a big fan of the KMT. They outright murdered one of our elders, his wife and child. And yet, I bet you've done a Lion Dance at a Sun Yat Sen Center in your day, or a demo on 11/11? No? Maybe?




I can't even find the words to respond that mess. LOL. well, you're wrong there man. nay, I've never met a gangsta who wasn't a low grade piece of scum wannabe a real human being but too stupid to do the work. I have zero respect for gangsters and gangs and would not hesitate to make that clear if need be by hook or by crook.

Gangs are a pain in the ass and should be rubbed out of society entirely.

EDIT* Not to mention the Qing have been gone for 100 years and have little if any relevancy to Kung Fu practice today except for some holdover hand signals and bows and legends and fairy tales about old masters.

Triads these days are typical organized criminal syndicates. they don't promote good things unless something is in it for them, such as less harsh eyes upon them. Like when the Hells Angels do a toy run. It's all for appearance, because in the meantime someone is getting shot over drug territory etc.

[hskwarrior]

We have ZERO kung fu gangs running around.

except for that article and in america at least, there never were kung fu gangs. there may have been gangs where its members knew gung fu, but i've never heard of a gung fu gang till now.


Well, the qing were mean weren't they. Criminals only by virtue of law and not by virtue of gang action.

if they were sooooo good, there wouldn't be any need for revolution now would there be?


And yet, I bet you've done a Lion Dance at a Sun Yat Sen Center in your day, or a demo on 11/11? No? Maybe?

Yes, we have. however, its my personal dislike in the KMT for doing something shady to their own people. Brother Sun Yat Sen is respected for being a brother. still, don't think the Hung Society was completely happy with him. and, in the past we did support them but that was before we learned more about what they did to the Hung Sing CLF people.


nay, I've never met a gangsta who wasn't a low grade piece of scum wannabe a real human being but too stupid to do the work. I have zero respect for gangsters and gangs and would not hesitate to make that clear if need be by hook or by crook.

well how bout you tell us how you really feel? don't hold back. LMAO.


EDIT* Not to mention the Qing have been gone for 100 years and have little if any relevancy to Kung Fu practice today except for some holdover hand signals and bows and legends and fairy tales about old masters.

haha. for someone interested in the history those things help to paint a better picture of the past. its better IMO to know than not to know. the questions will be asked. would you have the answer?


Gangs are a pain in the ass and should be rubbed out of society entirely.

I'd put money on it that you wouldn't turn down their help if your life was in danger.

[David Jamieson]

except for that article and in america at least, there never were kung fu gangs. there may have been gangs where its members knew gung fu, but i've never heard of a gung fu gang till now. You and me both. I knew there were guys mixed up in the triads that were serious kung fu guys as well. In fact.... nevermind. :)

there is a big however and several buts that need to go with this for sure.




if they were sooooo good, there wouldn't be any need for revolution now would there be? They usurped the Han. You know how those Han Chinese get when you take their stuff.




Yes, we have. however, its my personal dislike in the KMT for doing something shady to their own people. Brother Sun Yat Sen is respected for being a brother. still, don't think the Hung Society was completely happy with him. and, in the past we did support them but that was before we learned more about what they did to the Hung Sing CLF people. In power struggles, shift happens. Point is SYS, CKS and others were KMT and there would be no ROC without them. It was the KMT who established that and not any secret society although, secret societies did of course help to some degree. Still, the KMT was more about opposing communism from Mao and his army of the north than teh Qing. the Qing fell at the hands of foreigners and not by any action of the Chinese people themselves except in supporting roles. Even then...at that time Qing WAS the dynasty that rules China. So the CHinese supported foreign armies in destroying themselves in reality... what a time.




well how bout you tell us how you really feel? don't hold back. LMAO.

I can't really say exactly how repulsive I find the behaviour of Gangs in our society. they are a blight. It's not so much the drug dealing. If people wanna do drugs in the comfort of their own homes I could give a crap.

However, the human trafficking? yeah, that is bad man.

[hskwarrior]

It was the KMT who established that and not any secret society although, secret societies did of course help to some degree.

i'm sorry. established what?

when it came to installing Dr. Sun as the first president, the leader of the tong i belong to was indeed responsible for making that happen.

[David Jamieson]

i'm sorry. established what?

when it came to installing Dr. Sun as the first president, the leader of the tong i belong to was indeed responsible for making that happen.

established the ROC.

And yes, I am aware as most kung fu guys tend to be that many of the anti-qing groups who were not commies supported the KMT.

Particularly the Hung Muhn.

[hskwarrior]

Particularly the Hung Muhn.

from the inside i can share with you as ross would say "with authority" that the Hung Mun always plays the middle road and will not burn bridges. i always thought the Hung Mun was in total support for Dr. Sun, but i've come to learn that it isn't really the entire picture that i was seeing.

[David Jamieson]

from the inside i can share with you as ross would say "with authority" that the Hung Mun always plays the middle road and will not burn bridges. i always thought the Hung Mun was in total support for Dr. Sun, but i've come to learn that it isn't really the entire picture that i was seeing.

I imagine that there was a lot of cloak and dagger going on. We are talking about establishing nations, fighting wars and putting down oppressive foreign regimes after all.

A lot of greasy back room action is happening. Even now as it happens in other forms around the world it can be seen.

Just gotta look. :)

[bawang]

http://i53.tinypic.com/sgpqq8.jpg

[mjw]

I wish there were more triads in my county jail..... :(:(:(:(

[hskwarrior]

I wish there were more triads in my county jail.

sorry. we'll try to get to work on that right away. lol

[David Jamieson]

http://i53.tinypic.com/sgpqq8.jpg

This is a historical depiction of the Battle at Bannockburn in 17th century Scotland.

Nice find! Totally relevant!

[Hardwork108]

Its quite possible that organisations this old will have their own martial styles and techniques. No doubt having special signals to recognise each other similar to the Masons.

I remember reading ages ago on the internet after being a little side tracked from research, about the Triads. It was how HSBC is owned by the triads.

The original bank Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation was created to finance British trade in the far east in 1865.

It argued that this would have been impossible without the cooperation of the Triads who had influence over the countries assets. They owned businesses, banks and had many government officials in their pocket.

So for Britain to trade successfully it had to cooperate with the Triads. This meant they were given a stake in Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation. This allowed the British to trade freely and also gave them access to otherwise closed markets.

This would make sense as a centuries old organisation would not be expected to operate on the same level of street thuggery that it began its life in.

If you look at HSBC's history it is one of acquisition. It grows through buying other companies aggressively. If those influences that created Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation still exist, they would be operating in a similar manner.

Notice the hexagon logo. It was created from the original Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation flag. Could it be a triad sign?

Whether I not this account is true, I simply do not know. But it made for some interesting reading.

What I am sure is that the Triads are not restricted to street crime, neither are the mafia. They get smart, rich and get into the financial markets. This has been proven.

I would say that it is quite possible that the British did make a deal with the Triads to "lubricate" their way into Hong Kong's business ins and outs. Of course, one must also remember that the British were trading drugs in that part of the world through the East India Company and it is said that the Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation was used to launder the profits from the British drugs trade (some say that this is still happening today, as the British still trade in drugs through their intelligence agencies - MI6/MI5, just like the US does, through the CIA):

"After the second Opium War which ended in 1860, the British merchant banks and trading companies established the Hong Kong and Shanghai Corporation as the central bank of the Far East drug industry. According to all research I have read about the drug network, the Hong Kong and Shanghai Bank, with its global connections, continues to be a financial centre for the drug industry to this day. 10

"The Hong Kong and Shanghai Bank now calls itself HSBC Holdings since China regained Hong Kong and HSBC owns one of the four British clearing banks, the Midland. This had a long advertising campaign calling itself the “listening bank” and the “bank that likes to say yes”. I don’t remember it mentioning the number of times its owners have said “yes” to laundering the profits of the drug industry which is destroying the lives of so many" - David Icke from his book, The Biggest Secret.



.

[mig]

A funny thing is that I have noticed that either some schools are very patriotic as you see in their school, celebrating or praising the armed forces or they are actively involved in the organized crime.

I suspect that during those periods end of 1800s until 1949, martial artists were one way or the other heavily involved and we know many well known masters were the chief of militias, military stations and trained several armed groups.

Also, people don't mention the butcher of the organized crime during those times: Du Yuesheng, Big-Eared Du who was highly respected until his last days in Hong Kong. I wouldn't be surprised that many schools had the blessings of the big boss. May be we need to find more about the alliegances of schools in the organized crime.

[hskwarrior]

Also, people don't mention the butcher of the organized crime during those times: Du Yuesheng, Big-Eared Du who was highly respected until his last days in Hong Kong. I wouldn't be surprised that many schools had the blessings of the big boss. May be we need to find more about the alliegances of schools in the organized crime.

hmmm. i've never heard of a gung fu connection to the Ching P'ang. Hung Mun, yes, but nothing so far on gung fu schools involved with them.

[bawang]

Nice find! Totally relevant!

im comparing it to the rediculous of beliefs in kung fu

*stroke beard

[Lucas]

Start a gang bawang. I swear blood oath.

[bawang]

im already in a gang called chang's cherubs

we all ave hair like elvis

[pazman]

David Icke from his book, The Biggest Secret.


Quoting David Icke eliminates credibility.

[B.Tunks]

hmmm. i've never heard of a gung fu connection to the Ching P'ang. Hung Mun, yes, but nothing so far on gung fu schools involved with them.

There was/is a very strong connection with Qing Bang, especially with Jingwu in Shanghai. Luo Guangyu and many of Qixing Tanglang family were Qing Bang. Also many Shandong, Jiangsu and Shanghai masters who went to Taiwan. Some masters positions in official genealogies are technically not correct but are shown that way because they were higher ranked in Qing Bang and therefore could not be ranked lower than their subordinates.

BT

[hskwarrior]

Quoting David Icke eliminates credibility.

I agree. these guys are a little tripping. i remember they tried to say the illuminati are at war with the hung mun because the former was going to kill off the entire asian race. buncha kooks.

[hskwarrior]

There was/is a very strong connection with Qing Bang, especially with Jingwu in Shanghai. Luo Guangyu and many of Qixing Tanglang family were Qing Bang. Also many Shandong, Jiangsu and Shanghai masters who went to Taiwan. Some masters positions in official genealogies are technically not correct but are shown that way because they were higher ranked in Qing Bang and therefore could not be ranked lower than their subordinates.

ahhhh very interesting. i'd figured some northern schools might be involved but had no idea who would be. thanks for that info.

The Qing Bang used to be called the Qing Mun until Hung Mun was created. Qing Mun was in its third generation at the time but after a meeting with the five ancestors the Qing Mun changed to the Qing P'ang. So, i would say that Hung Mun also has some root in the Qing Mun/P'ang.

[Hardwork108]

Quoting David Icke eliminates credibility.

That is what I used to think, too. Also, I have seen similar info, as regards HSBC from other sources as well.

Having looked at his work more carefully, I have found him infinitely more trustworthy than our political leaders (and their puppet masters), not to mention the lap dog "free" :rolleyes: media.

Actually, he has sourced his info in the quotations provided:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biggestsecret/biggestsecretbook/biggestsecret14.htm

Also, I would suggest people listen to the message first before they pass judgment on the messenger. ;)

[Hardwork108]

I agree. these guys are a little tripping. i remember they tried to say the illuminati are at war with the hung mun because the former was going to kill off the entire asian race. buncha kooks.

I have never seen David Icke associated with such claims.

I believe, if we want a better world then we need to open our minds a little more. Not by reading the work of researchers such as Icke, but also reading genuine history of the world we live in.

We live in a world where people still believe that there were Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq, just because of mere fact that their psychopathic leaders told them so through a controlled media.

The majority of Americans don't know that the Federal Reserve is a private banking cartel! In the "free" nation of the USA, no one knows who owns the Fed, and most politicians are silent as the lambs that they are.

There are wars, revolution and slaugher happening all over the world, but no one sees the arms suppliers and the money trail and where it leads. People brush it off as "well, humans are like that, we like wars and killing each other".

It is good to research outside of the controlled media that is imposed on us. Just saying....

[David Jamieson]

If you check out David Icke, you won't be far into his ramblings before you can clearly make the decision that he is perhaps somewhat mentally unhinged.

seriously, the guy is OUT there.

we can all see the obvious and it doesn't take a genius to point out hypocrisy or inequity in our world, but this guy and his ilk? Yeah, borderline crazy.

[Faruq]

Its quite possible that organisations this old will have their own martial styles and techniques. No doubt having special signals to recognise each other similar to the Masons.

I've always been fascinated by stories of Mason flashing these signals during traffic stops and being let off without getting a ticket, or during court and having the judge rule in their favor; but my google searches for such signals have yielded dubious results at best. Does anyone know of any links showing the authentic Masonic signals (or the ones for these mutual aide societies while we're on that topic)?.....

[Faruq]

hmmm. i've never heard of a gung fu connection to the Ching P'ang. Hung Mun, yes, but nothing so far on gung fu schools involved with them.

Wasn't Du Yue-Sheng known to practice like some white leopard or white panther style kung fu?

[hskwarrior]

Wasn't Du Yue-Sheng known to practice like some white leopard or white panther style kung fu?

Bak Fu Pai (White Tiger) = doo wai i believe.

the Green Gangs Du, i don't believe any mention of a style he trained in. but dang, look at what happened in this mans life:

Born in Gaoqiao, a small town east of Shanghai, Du's family moved to Shanghai in 1889. By the time he was nine, Du was orphaned - his mother died in childbirth, his sister was sold into slavery, his father died, and his stepmother vanished - leaving him to return to Gaoqiao and be taken in by his grandmother. He returned to Shanghai in 1902, working at a fruit-stand in the French Concession before being fired for theft. After drifting, Du became a bodyguard for a brothel and there fell into favor with the Green Gang, the most powerful secret society in Shanghai. He joined the group at the age of 16.

[Faruq]

You're not suggesting a link between Du Yue-Sheng and Doo Wai, are you? What, do you think Doo Wai's like one of Du Yue-Sheng's sons or something? Their surnames are spelled differently, so I don't think there's any link.

[hskwarrior]

You're not suggesting a link between Du Yue-Sheng and Doo Wai, are you?

no no. I just read something about Doo Wai when i pulled up Du's name.

i don't suggest any connection between the two. i'd never heard DU practiced any gung fu, its always possible, it was china, but nothing really is written in regards to him and martial arts.

[Faruq]

no no. I just read something about Doo Wai when i pulled up Du's name.

i don't suggest any connection between the two. i'd never heard DU practiced any gung fu, its always possible, it was china, but nothing really is written in regards to him and martial arts.

Yeah. If there were, then Qing Bang'd be associated with White Tiger; and it isn't. All the same, it would be interesting to find out what Doo Wai's hometown was. I think it was established here by LLKMD that he didn't know Cantonese. But that's another thread,....that wouldn't go anywhere....

[hskwarrior]

well, this subject made me go dig out one of my books on the subject and it mentions that Big Ears Du was first initiated into the Hung P'ang (Red Gang) but it doesn't mention anything about him and gung fu. (not yet).

[mig]

well, this subject made me go dig out one of my books on the subject and it mentions that Big Ears Du was first initiated into the Hung P'ang (Red Gang) but it doesn't mention anything about him and gung fu. (not yet).


I don't think Du, a true killer, had practiced any martial art and during those times a pistol or a rifle was the short answer to any dispute. If you look at the slaughter of communists by Qingpang is quite noticeable that Du ordered under the instructions of big powers at that time in Shanghai. He's also known for his close ties with Nationalists and very little is know of him except that he was even more cruel than the Al Capone, another killer.

As for Doo, nothing related and don't know where Faruk got the leopard or any other invented name. And as for names, don't know where you can find white tiger in Southern China, may be an albino or another made up invention.

[hskwarrior]

I don't think Du, a true killer, had practiced any martial art and during those times a pistol or a rifle was the short answer to any dispute. If you look at the slaughter of communists by Qingpang is quite noticeable that Du ordered under the instructions of big powers at that time in Shanghai. He's also known for his close ties with Nationalists and very little is know of him except that he was even more cruel than the Al Capone, another killer.

lots of triad leaders were gung fu masters. but not all of them. a Hung Mun dragon head in Hong Kong was a Choy Lee Fut guy. but i know what you're saying.

[Faruq]

I don't think Du, a true killer, had practiced any martial art and during those times a pistol or a rifle was the short answer to any dispute. If you look at the slaughter of communists by Qingpang is quite noticeable that Du ordered under the instructions of big powers at that time in Shanghai. He's also known for his close ties with Nationalists and very little is know of him except that he was even more cruel than the Al Capone, another killer.

As for Doo, nothing related and don't know where Faruk got the leopard or any other invented name. And as for names, don't know where you can find white tiger in Southern China, may be an albino or another made up invention.

Probably not in Sichuan either. I definitely have not found one person who's ever heard of the white tiger in Southern China. I can't find a reference for the white leopard either, so I must've been talking out of my ask me what I was thinking about when I pulled that one out: I have no idea.

But didn't they say Qing Bang was known for using meat cleavers? Wasn't that where they got the meat cleavers idea for Kung Fu Hustle?

[hskwarrior]

But didn't they say Qing Bang was known for using meat cleavers? Wasn't that where they got the meat cleavers idea for Kung Fu Hustle?

meat cleavers are the primary tool of many triad soldiers.

[ghostexorcist]

The book Ritual and Mythology of the Chinese Triads: Creating an Identity by Barend J. ter Haar mentions some stuff about martial arts.

[omarthefish]

But didn't they say Qing Bang was known for using meat cleavers? Wasn't that where they got the meat cleavers idea for Kung Fu Hustle?

Go watch it again.

Those were Axes, not meat cleavers. Their name was even "The Axe Gang"(斧头帮)

[hskwarrior]

The book Ritual and Mythology of the Chinese Triads: Creating an Identity by Barend J. ter Haar mentions some stuff about martial arts.

there are a few good books on the subject.

read this:

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:CgSewEV6C3cJ:www.cusile.com/files/paper/SOCI0054%2520Two%2520Dragons%2520for%2520The%2520P earl%2520%255B2007.05.05%255D.pdf+Triad+societies+ in+Hong+Kong+by+W.+P.+Morgan&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShCTkSdhl4A9uz1IkrJR0pBuuHLPbMB_5Yg6yLu pl8nabE256oITOVdvfzOK7PxVEGFKGu-fsOCsTjyfs453Q7jd_V19D12XyL9KnxlBdhUrbgBwpzlfq8mHY Ku9EwJrSPF30-E&sig=AHIEtbQgC8VUdExGCh8XW1YMgtBU8OEijw&pli=1

Hung Society:
http://books.google.com/books?id=jNtbfGMTmGoC&pg=PA70&lpg=PA70&dq=stanton+%2236+oaths%22&source=bl&ots=QQE6xDXDJp&sig=1j4SxsRoZjbD8GfSafEvWW-K8mc#v=onepage&q=stanton%20%2236%20oaths%22&f=false

[Hardwork108]

If you check out David Icke, you won't be far into his ramblings before you can clearly make the decision that he is perhaps somewhat mentally unhinged.

seriously, the guy is OUT there.

we can all see the obvious and it doesn't take a genius to point out hypocrisy or inequity in our world, but this guy and his ilk? Yeah, borderline crazy.

Look up some of his presentations on Youtube and watch them with an open mind (as opposed to a "know it all" mind ;) )

The fact is that a lot more people USED to think he was mentally unhinged, than they do now. There is a good reason for that, and that is, a lot of stuff he was warning about is happening right now......

[Faruq]

Go watch it again.

Those were Axes, not meat cleavers. Their name was even "The Axe Gang"(斧头帮)

Darn! I'm not getting anything right in this thread! But at least I got the area of Sichuan right (I hope) for Qing Bang.

[SimonM]

The Triads did use meat cleavers in "Nuns on the Run."

And David Icke is unhinged. He thinks that most of the political class in the world are secret reptile aliens from the hollow earth. Either he's insane or he's part of a secret Dr. Who viral advertising campaign.

[hskwarrior]

http://neveryetmelted.com/wp-images/TriadWeapons.jpg

[SimonM]

I used to have one of those chain whips - had to leave it in China as it is monstrously illegal in Canada.

[hskwarrior]

I used to have one of those chain whips - had to leave it in China as it is monstrously illegal in Canada.

even for gung fu schools?

I wonder if the five links whip is related to the Five Ancestors (symbolically) since the triad used this weapon.

[SimonM]

even for gung fu schools?

It would be iffy within that context. You could probably get away with it, but if you were transporting it to or from the school, and a police officer searched you, you'd be in a lot of trouble.

Chain weapons are particularly proscribed in Canada. Not really sure why.

[hskwarrior]

It would be iffy within that context. You could probably get away with it, but if you were transporting it to or from the school, and a police officer searched you, you'd be in a lot of trouble.

yeah we always kept ours in the trunk and business cards showing the address of our school. still iffy tho. I was stopped once and the cop searched my trunk. he found a drum stick for lion dancing that had tape around the middle. he tried to claim it was a club of some sort. LOL.

[SimonM]

LOL Yeah, in Canada that'd only happen if you were suspected of disliking the prime minister while he was in town for an economic conference.

Of course, if you are suspected of disliking the PM while he's in town for an economic conference, the police are likely to call a water bottle a weapon.

[Hardwork108]

And David Icke is unhinged. He thinks that most of the political class in the world are secret reptile aliens from the hollow earth. Either he's insane or he's part of a secret Dr. Who viral advertising campaign.

Well, what is proven fact is that the elite political (and business/entertainment) class participate in occult ceremonies (which go back to Egypt and beyond). Such ceremonies, such as the ones in Bohemian Grove, historically attended by the likes of Richar Nixon, Ronald Reagan and the Yale University's Skull and Bones society, have been proven to EXIST, and even documented on film, with pretty disturbing scenes.

The object of these worship ceremonies - that have been happening in most cultures for thousands of years - is contact with entities, presumably none human ones.

I personally don't give two toses whether these entities are supposed to be reptilian or other, but the fact is that these disturbing occult ceremonies do EXIST and that the people in charge of our lives in apparently "free" and "Demorcatic" nations are members of SECRET societies that regularly carry out such ceremonies that again go back thousands of years.

Now, pseudo intellectuals such as yourself may rationalize this as just a bunch of people "having fun", but you are just fooling yourselves by burying your heads in the sands of profound fear (of what may turn up if you dig deeper) and ignorance, by ridiculing people who bring this info into the public domain.

However, when you look at the constant tragedies and internationally sponsored mass murders, and realize that the paper/money trail ALWAYS leads to these political and business elites, then you should wake up and smell the fish!!!

[brianlkennedy]

It is interesting to me that people have an abiding interest in “Tongs” and Chinese martial arts; there is a fascination about it that far exceeds any reality to it. As a prosecutor and public defender who has worked both in the California and Taiwanese criminal justice system I would point out a couple of things.

First, most gangsters, be they Californian or Taiwanese, have no great interest in learning or practicing any kind of martial arts. If gangsters are going to attack someone they rely on:
Surprise
Outnumbering the victim/opponent
Using a club, knife or gun

Gangsters do not rely on some in depth knowledge of martial arts. In fact stabbing or shooting someone to death is quite easy and requires no training whatsoever. It simply requires the willingness to do it and getting the victim by surprise or by superior numbers.

Gangsters generally like their whiskey and their women and tend not to be the kind of guys who bother with learning martial arts. To the extent they know how to fight that knowledge came from on the job training. And they see no reason for formal martial arts, most gangsters have a fair amount of contempt for organized martial arts.

The upshot being, I doubt seriously if gangsters ever really had much to do with Chinese martial arts. The village arts of southern China were developed either as temple entertainment or for use in village militia (yes, I meant temple entertainment---a type of folk dance performance). In any event they had, at least based on the historical documents I have seen (which are few and far between by the way), nothing to do with gangsters.

The problem you get, and you see it quite a bit in Taiwan, is that there is kind of a gangster chic. Everyone wants to hint or kind of claim that they know some gangster and that that gangster is a dangerous dude who knows some obscure form of martial art. It just does not jibe with the reality of things.

Take care,
Brian

[hskwarrior]

First, most gangsters, be they Californian or Taiwanese, have no great interest in learning or practicing any kind of martial arts. If gangsters are going to attack someone they rely on:
Surprise
Outnumbering the victim/opponent
Using a club, knife or gun

I can't agree. sorry. still, what street gang doesn't do this?


Gangsters do not rely on some in depth knowledge of martial arts. In fact stabbing or shooting someone to death is quite easy and requires no training whatsoever. It simply requires the willingness to do it and getting the victim by surprise or by superior numbers.

of course not. if they have a gun they will use it. but to say they don't have an interest or rely on some martial knowledge is incorrect. sorry. what happens when you don't have your brothers or a weapon? on the other side of the coin, gangster will choose a martial art to get away from the street gang life.


Gangsters generally like their whiskey and their women and tend not to be the kind of guys who bother with learning martial arts. To the extent they know how to fight that knowledge came from on the job training. And they see no reason for formal martial arts, most gangsters have a fair amount of contempt for organized martial arts.

you are totally missing the point that many gung fu schools are connected to the tongs. the tongs specifically hire gung fu people to train their fighters. These days there's nothing going on so you don't see gangs around chinatown that much anymore. I've never met a chinese gangster that had any kind of contempt for a gung fu school. maybe in taiwan, but not in San Francisco to say the least. But, there are gung fu schools the despise gangsters too.


The upshot being, I doubt seriously if gangsters ever really had much to do with Chinese martial arts. The village arts of southern China were developed either as temple entertainment or for use in village militia (yes, I meant temple entertainment---a type of folk dance performance). In any event they had, at least based on the historical documents I have seen (which are few and far between by the way), nothing to do with gangsters.

The problem you get, and you see it quite a bit in Taiwan, is that there is kind of a gangster chic. Everyone wants to hint or kind of claim that they know some gangster and that that gangster is a dangerous dude who knows some obscure form of martial art. It just does not jibe with the reality of things.


Incorrect again. sorry. But then again, that depends on what you're calling a gangster. still, one of the most notorious SF chinatown gangsters (now reformed) was into both Hung Gar and Choy Lee Fut.

Being a "Militia" school as you termed it means they were training for real combat and not FOLK DANCING. My lineage of gung fu back in china participated in every major revolution in china from 1851 to 1949. They even came to the aid of China during the Japanese Invasion.

[ghostexorcist]

The book Ritual and Mythology of the Chinese Triads: Creating an Identity by Barend J. ter Haar mentions some stuff about martial arts.

Here are some quotes from the book that deal with dynastic China:


“As I already noted above, the Triad initiation journey enacted the candidate member’s symbolic death in majority society and his subsequent rebirth as a member of the Hong family … The initiation journey formally stars with the candidate being questioned about his aims (to join the Heaven and Earth Gathering), where he comes from and whither he is going (from east to west, or in other words from death to life) … [H]e is asked what abilities he possesses, to which he answers that he has acquired civilian abilities from the Red (or Hong) Flower Pavilion and martial abilities from the Shaolin Monastery. Next he is asked whom he sees passing by on the road. The correct answer is the Eight Immortals, who are then identified by name together with all their paraphernalia … The two questions about the candidate’s abilities and the Eight Immortals function as auspicious symbols, instead of reflecting specific stages in the candidate’s journey (pp. 114 and 120-121).”


“Ma Chaozhu [c. 1750] and his close followers saw themselves as generals in these divine armies. They made a special attempt to recruit people with some command of the martial arts. One of these was…Hu Nanshan, who made a living as a teacher of martial arts and by trading mules. Extensive military preparations were actually, made, such as preparing weapons, buying ammunition and provisions, etc., although the claims made by Ma himself always greatly exceeded actual reality (p. 245).”


“In 1815, a group was rounded up in Chongyi county (in Jiangxi, somewhat south of the region where Ma had been active) which presented itself as a Triad group and had been formed by means of a blood covenant. The group had supposedly been inspired by rumors about the Triads, but had used a booklet containing a long list of names, with those of Ma Chaozhu and Ma Chaowen at the top. The list has all the signs of being a membership list of Ma Chaozhu’s following … In addition, the booklet deals with the way to initiate new pupils, martial arts techniques, as well as the way of summoning ‘Yin and Yang Soldiers of Heaven and Earth, Thunder Soldiers and Thunder Generals’” (pp. 245-247).

The book also talks at length about the Triad's legendary connection to the Shaolin monastery. All of the different versions of the same legend state Shaolin was called upon by the Emperor to combat barbarians. They were led into battle by either a senior monk or secular expert in martial arts and won the day. However, one (evil cliche) official later convinced the Emperor that the monks couldn't have defeated the barbarians because they lacked a proper army, so, as he concluded, they must have struck a deal with them. This led to the monastery being destroyed.

The legends also mention Bodhidharma and Red Boy and Sun Wukong from Journey to the West a lot.

[hskwarrior]

The book also talks at length about the Triad's legendary connection to the Shaolin monastery. All of the different versions of the same legend state Shaolin was called upon by the Emperor to combat barbarians. They were led into battle by either a senior monk or secular expert in martial arts and win the day. However, one (evil cliche) official later convinced the Emperor that the monks couldn't have defeated the barbarians because they lacked a proper army, so, as he concluded, they must have struck a deal with them. This led to the monastery being destroyed.

"With the monks back in their monastery, the grand secretary of the Qing council, Wong Chun Mei, became jealous of the honours offered to them and the position bestowed on Cheng Kwan Tat. Fired by envy, Wong set about sowing doubts in the emperor's mind. If, Wong reasoned, this small band of monks had been so successful where the imperial foces had failed, surley they might just as readily turn against the emperor as defend him. He argued that the reason they had declinded their honours was because their main intention was to raise an army agaist the throne. The emperor was persuaded by the logic of this arguement and became so fearful that he ordered Cheung Kin Chau, the provincial high commissioner of fujian province, and Chan Man Yiu, the magistrate of Po Ting district to destroy the Shaolin monastery and all its inhabitants. he further ordered Cheung Kwan Tat's execution.

The monastery was strategically situated on a tall hill. A surprise attack was impossible. Furthermore, the hill was reputed to be honeycombed with tunnels by which the monks would be able to escape were there monastery stormed. It was decided the best course of action was to drug the monks then kill them. However, in case the play went awry, all exits from the monastery would have to be guarded: this meant the entrances to the tunnels would have to be located. Chan Man Yiu, disguised as a peasant, wandered the nearby villages to glean information.

Chan met and befriended a coolie and learned that he had been a monk in the Shaolin monastery. On further investigation, he discovered that the coolie, Ma Yee Fuk (man ning yee) had been ranked seventh among the monks in martial ability, but had been cast out because he had made advances to Cheng Kwan tat's wife and sister, and had broked the Man Nin Po Tang, a sacred lamp presented to the monastery by the Persian government. His shaven head marking him as a disgraced monk, he had been unable to obtain fitting work, and was reduced to living as a common labourer. Embittered by his excommunication, Ma was ready for revenge and, when Chan Man Yiu admitted his identity, agreed to assist in the attack on the monastery. Chan promised him imperial honours and favours. Ma showed him the whereabouts of the tunnels and the paths leading from them. Finally, Chan requested that Ma swear his expulsion from the monastery had been caused by his refusal tp join the monks' conspiracy against the emperor. Ma conceded.

With the traitor's inside knowledge, troops under the command of High Commissioner Cheung Kin Chau were placed at all the secret exits. Others hid near the main gates, to seal them when the signal was given. All were supplied with inflammable material. Chan Man Yiu with a number of coolies carrying jars of drugged wine, openly announced that the wine was a personal gift from the emperor. He requested that the abbott and all the monks drink the emperor's wealth with it. The abbott, however, was suspicious and, testing the wine with a magic sword, found the blade changed colour. The monk, furious at the emperor's treachery, attacked Chan Man Yiu but he managed to escape. On seeing him flee, the troops advanced, igniting fires at the entrances to all the secret tunnels; they then set fire to the buildings.

One hundred ten monks perished in the fire. The remaining eighteen sought refuge in the main hall of the temple and there, before the image of Buddha, prayed for their deliverance. Their prayers were answered when a large yellow curtain hanging in the hall fell to cover them. It protected the monks from the flames but it and the smoke also smothered them so that they lost consciousness. When the Qing troops saw the walls of the building collapse, and could see no sign of life within them, they assumed their task was done and retreated.

When the 18 survivors came to, they found themselves trapped in the ruins. One of the number, however, Tsai Te Chung, knocked a hole in the monastery wall, through which they managed to make their getaway. The entire hill was alight, but they rany over the burning grass, the smoke concealing them. Slipping through the military lines, they travelled to Ting Shan, nearby Sheung Yeung City, Hupei province. There, thirteen of them died from their burns and wounds or from lack of food. They were cremated, their ashes wrapped in several bundles and retained for safekeeping by the 5 remaining survivors: Tsai Te Chung, Fong Tai Hung, Ma Chiu Hing, Wu Tak Tai, and Lee Sik Hoi."

[Hardwork108]

I can't agree. sorry. still, what street gang doesn't do this?



of course not. if they have a gun they will use it. but to say they don't have an interest or rely on some martial knowledge is incorrect. sorry. what happens when you don't have your brothers or a weapon? on the other side of the coin, gangster will choose a martial art to get away from the street gang life.



you are totally missing the point that many gung fu schools are connected to the tongs. the tongs specifically hire gung fu people to train their fighters. These days there's nothing going on so you don't see gangs around chinatown that much anymore. I've never met a chinese gangster that had any kind of contempt for a gung fu school. maybe in taiwan, but not in San Francisco to say the least. But, there are gung fu schools the despise gangsters too.



Incorrect again. sorry. But then again, that depends on what you're calling a gangster. still, one of the most notorious SF chinatown gangsters (now reformed) was into both Hung Gar and Choy Lee Fut.

Being a "Militia" school as you termed it means they were training for real combat and not FOLK DANCING. My lineage of gung fu back in china participated in every major revolution in china from 1851 to 1949. They even came to the aid of China during the Japanese Invasion.

I agree with you. I have heard of gangsters in London's China Town who were Pak mei, Wing Chun and Mantis practioners, with a couple of specific stories about their "adventures".

[hskwarrior]

I agree with you. I have heard of gangsters in London's China Town who were Pak mei, Wing Chun and Mantis practioners, with a couple of specific stories about their "adventures".

Whether people like it or not, China was going through very turbulent times and people will turn to things like the secret societies in hopes of a better life. Secret Societies and gung fu had a strong symbiotic relationship which continues in the current times. however, its only important to those who are interested in history. to others the secret signals and such mean nothing. its the fighting aspect they care about. me too. but i like the history side as well as it provides answers to certain things.

[David Jamieson]

I used to have one of those chain whips - had to leave it in China as it is monstrously illegal in Canada.

Not as ornamentation or in academic context it's not. Also, a sport usage applies as legal. You are correct that linked or hinge weapons are illegal to have as weapons proper. They can hang on a wall, be studied or used in competitive sport but not carried about like a wallet. :)


even for gung fu schools?

I wonder if the five links whip is related to the Five Ancestors (symbolically) since the triad used this weapon.

see above re: kung fu schools.

There is importance to prime numbers in an inordinate number of philosophies broaching myriad subjects in my observation.

Note about Canadian Law: If you can find an appropriate reason, virtually anything is legal and certifiable as such here. :D

[hskwarrior]

http://edge.liveleak.com/80281E/u/u/thumbs/2011/Jan/3/1970967_12_avatar.gif?d5e8cc8eccfb6039332f41f6249e 92b06c91b4db65f5e99818bad6924d47d9d6f43e&ec_rate=300

[SimonM]

Not as ornamentation or in academic context it's not. Also, a sport usage applies as legal. You are correct that linked or hinge weapons are illegal to have as weapons proper. They can hang on a wall, be studied or used in competitive sport but not carried about like a wallet. :)



Try explaining that to the guys at customs. ;)

[Ray Pina]

Knew some "gangsters" in NYC's Chinatown. Wing Chun players from the Free Mason's lodge.... wholly not impressed. Besides being small and lacking power, they didn't have the discipline to really train..... punk a$$es who liked to talk smack. And then snicker after you bounce them from wall to wall in Chia Sau.

They certainly may be dangerous with gun, knives, etc, but couldn't last against average anglo men willing to throw fists. Generally cowardly too .... ganging up after they picked a fight at a club. Pretty much why they felt compelled to join a gang in the first place.

Losers not to be respected or glorified. Selling their own women to white men by the hour.

[hskwarrior]

but couldn't last against average anglo men willing to throw fists

Outside of the MMA crowd, thats few and far between. average anglo guys are looked at as weak and easy targets by black,latin, polynesian and asians. if you are anglo, aggressive, and skilled in fighting you are not the norm. this comes from personal experience, not a feeling.

[bawang]

wing chun and gangster should not be in the same sentence

Outside of the MMA crowd, thats few and far between. average anglo guys are looked at as weak and easy targets. if you are anglo, aggressive, and skilled in fighting you are not the norm. this come from personal experience, not what a feel.

thats because you live in san fransisco

[hskwarrior]

thats because you live in san fransisco

then why are so many white boys getting beat up by other ethnicities OUTSIDE of san francisco, in other states around the US?

[bawang]

if that is true, then america sounds like paradise. i want to move there.

[hskwarrior]

if that is true, then america sounds like paradise. i want to move there.

I don't think AMERICA is where you need to move...or move into. but thats another story. LOL.

[bawang]

i dont understand. if america is full of weak anglo omega male prey, why wouldnt i move there.

[hskwarrior]

i dont understand. if america is full of weak anglo omega male prey, why wouldnt i move there.

because even tho they are weak and passive, they'd still kick your booty.

[bawang]

are you challenging me?

[hskwarrior]

are you challenging me?

That depends. I'm not entirely sure i'm challenging you....i mean you are BAWANG...you face is on packages all over the place. i would hate to beat up a national food icon lol

[Ray Pina]

Your average anglo male 18 to 28 years of age TOWERS over your typical Asian of the same age group. In a fist fight, I would put money down on any college footballer or rugby player vs a Chinese gangster.... especially if they've trained Kung Fu.

I understand the fascination with Kung Fu folks trying to get any street cred they can, and going through the analogs of history to find connections. Like I said, I knew Wing Chun gangsters connected to the Freemasons and Southn Mantis folks under the lineage of Gin Foon Mark who were also gangsters.

As a rule, none of them possessed even average skill. At the most they were familiar with basic concept. My exposure to these groups was a big eye opener for me and put things in perspective.... when I hear about undefeated masters, I know understand the low quality they were comparing against. Comparatively, I am a Kung Fu God!!!! The messiah!!!!

Secondly, you want to distance yourself from these people. Extorting their own local businesses, pimping young girls, home invasions.

[bawang]

That depends. I'm not entirely sure i'm challenging you....i mean you are BAWANG...you face is on packages all over the place. i would hate to beat up a national food icon lol

good. i dont want to waste my helicopter fuel coming to beat your ass.

[hskwarrior]

good. i dont want to waste my helicopter fuel coming to beat your ass.

yeah we don't want that right? LOL i mean YOU kicking MY ass......who would have thought you'd ever have such a grand dream?

[bawang]

im strogn i can bicep curl over 25 pounds

[hskwarrior]

im strogn i can bicep curl over 25 pounds

i strong too. i can carry five buckets of chicken at one time while running in place.

[bawang]

that is impossible. five buckets of chicken is about 150 dollars. no normal people can afford that much money.

[hskwarrior]

that is impossible. five buckets of chicken is about 150 dollars. no normal people can afford that much money. i use my students dues to buy chicken

[Lucas]

cut out the middle man and have them just pay you in chicken!

[Faruq]

Hey guys, there's absolutely no reason to argue or challenge each other to lei tai. With the rioting all over, we've gotta listen to reason guys. I mean, can't we all just get along, people?

[Lucas]

hes right, share the chicken!

[hskwarrior]

you better put some money on it. im not sharing my chicken.

[bawang]

you can have my chicken when you take it from my cold, dead hands.

[hskwarrior]

you can have my chicken when you take it from my cold, dead hands.

thats the secret, its best when pried from the cold dead hands of Bawang

[Lucas]

The Colonels New Recipie: Pried from Bawangs Cold Dead Hands.

[hskwarrior]

The Colonels New Recipie: Pried from Bawangs Cold Dead Hands.

lol...........

[Faruq]

What does "Bawang" actually mean in Cantonese?

[bawang]

i dont know, i dont speak cantonese. i speak chinese.

[Lucas]

i dont know, i dont speak dirty cantonese

hahaha i was waiting for that

[bawang]

i do not know what you are talk about. i never say that.

[Faruq]

I know Bawang, you made it very clear you were Mandarin in our conversations, lol. But I had to do it, lol. Actually, I was expecting a much stronger response from you Bawang. Does Bawang even mean anything in Mandarin?

[bawang]

i would make a very strong response, but im scare of david jameon. he is drunk with power.

i never told anyone on this forum, but bawang in mandarin means a small baby cow that has just been born and hasnt opened its eyes yet, which resembles a purple eggplant.

[Lucas]

http://firedblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/boss-drunk-on-power.jpg

[Faruq]

i would make a very strong response, but im scare of david jameon. he is drunk with power.

i never told anyone on this forum, but bawang in mandarin means a small baby cow that has just been born and hasnt opened its eyes yet, which resembles a purple eggplant.

How does that relate to your reign of terror here on the forums? They have virtually nothing in common. Why did you choose that moniker, Bawang Shifu?

[bawang]

the baby cow symbolizes birth of mma. the closed eyes are the ignorance of kung fu. eggplant resembles the six harmonies. this is common knowldge in china everyone know this

[Faruq]

the baby cow symbolizes birth of mma. the closed eyes are the ignorance of kung fu. eggplant resembles the six harmonies. this is common knowldge in china everyone know this

Bawang Shifu has spoken:

ALL KNEEL!!!

[Hardwork108]

Your average anglo male 18 to 28 years of age TOWERS over your typical Asian of the same age group. In a fist fight, I would put money down on any college footballer or rugby player vs a Chinese gangster.... especially if they've trained Kung Fu.

I understand the fascination with Kung Fu folks trying to get any street cred they can, and going through the analogs of history to find connections. Like I said, I knew Wing Chun gangsters connected to the Freemasons and Southn Mantis folks under the lineage of Gin Foon Mark who were also gangsters.

As a rule, none of them possessed even average skill. At the most they were familiar with basic concept. My exposure to these groups was a big eye opener for me and put things in perspective.... when I hear about undefeated masters, I know understand the low quality they were comparing against. Comparatively, I am a Kung Fu God!!!! The messiah!!!!

Secondly, you want to distance yourself from these people. Extorting their own local businesses, pimping young girls, home invasions.

I see a lot of logic in what you say. Personally speaking, I have through one of my sifus been made aware of some viscious fighters among the Chinese gangster community. So, I guess that there are always exceptions.

Also, the street fighting environment will put a lot of these people in situations where they can test the stuff they have learned to discover what works for them and what doesn't. So, for such people who are seriously into kung fu, the learning curve (as regards combat) would probably be smaller.

Just my thoughts. :)

[Ray Pina]

Personally speaking, I have through one of my sifus been made aware of some viscious fighters among the Chinese gangster community.

I'm not arguing that they're not vicious. Hitting someone from behind with a baseball bat and then having five friends stomp the person into a comma is vicious.... it requires no skill other than being sneaky and compassionless.

Strangling a young girl to death because she refuses to have sex with strangers anymore, again, vicious, but nothing to emulate.

Giving someone a hot shot (poison instead of heroin).....

This is what these people do. It requires no skill. They're not heroes. They're criminals looking to make money as easily as possible and in their line of work that means intimidation.

Take away the guns. Take away the entire gang.... skinny little, pimply $hits.

[Jimbo]

Your average anglo male 18 to 28 years of age TOWERS over your typical Asian of the same age group. In a fist fight, I would put money down on any college footballer or rugby player vs a Chinese gangster.... especially if they've trained Kung Fu.

I understand the fascination with Kung Fu folks trying to get any street cred they can, and going through the analogs of history to find connections. Like I said, I knew Wing Chun gangsters connected to the Freemasons and Southn Mantis folks under the lineage of Gin Foon Mark who were also gangsters.

As a rule, none of them possessed even average skill. At the most they were familiar with basic concept. My exposure to these groups was a big eye opener for me and put things in perspective.... when I hear about undefeated masters, I know understand the low quality they were comparing against. Comparatively, I am a Kung Fu God!!!! The messiah!!!!

Secondly, you want to distance yourself from these people. Extorting their own local businesses, pimping young girls, home invasions.

Good points.
However, I would point out that your typical (white or any color) college football or rugby player can also beat up your typical 18 to 28-year-old Anglo, black, or Hispanic male in a straight-up fight, too. I wouldn't consider a college-level athlete like that to be your typical male, even if there are a ton of guys who have played those sports to some degree or other.

[Ray Pina]

True that.

[hskwarrior]

Good points.
However, I would point out that your typical (white or any color) college football or rugby player can also beat up your typical 18 to 28-year-old Anglo, black, or Hispanic male in a straight-up fight, too. I wouldn't consider a college-level athlete like that to be your typical male, even if there are a ton of guys who have played those sports to some degree or other.

my point exactly. I've noticed the people on this forum go from one extreme to the other and totally bypass your AVERAGE-EVERYDAY JOE. Of course people who are trained already will think like this. Martial arts was supposed to give the average joe the upper hand in a confrontation against another average everyday joe. its just a totally different animal when you talk about SPORTS fighting.

I think people have forgotten what it was like prior to MMA,UFC and what not. Martial Arts sports fighting is just on a higher level than your average martial artist. Sure, you can use TCMA on the streets against an untrained fighter. If it saves your life then good for you. But, if you wanna test yourself against other styles, then fight in the UFC and MMA or even against muay thai fighters is the best way to go.

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/129155937374068159.jpg

[hskwarrior]

Sanjuro, thats just messed up. I'm effin hungry right now. :eek:

[Faruq]

I'm not arguing that they're not vicious. Hitting someone from behind with a baseball bat and then having five friends stomp the person into a comma is vicious.... it requires no skill other than being sneaky and compassionless.

Strangling a young girl to death because she refuses to have sex with strangers anymore, again, vicious, but nothing to emulate.

Giving someone a hot shot (poison instead of heroin).....

This is what these people do. It requires no skill. They're not heroes. They're criminals looking to make money as easily as possible and in their line of work that means intimidation.

Take away the guns. Take away the entire gang.... skinny little, pimply $hits.

Deep! That's a side of the triads they never show in movies....

[RiceWine]

Why did this turn into an MMA vs. Triads debate?

This MMA vs [anything else] I see in many topics really needs to stop. It's ruining the quality of threads in general. :mad:

edited: I took out some mean words

[hskwarrior]

Why did this turn into an MMA vs. Triads debate?

Its gonna be a new series for the Deadliest Warrior on TV. :D

[Hardwork108]

I'm not arguing that they're not vicious. Hitting someone from behind with a baseball bat and then having five friends stomp the person into a comma is vicious.... it requires no skill other than being sneaky and compassionless.

Strangling a young girl to death because she refuses to have sex with strangers anymore, again, vicious, but nothing to emulate.

Giving someone a hot shot (poison instead of heroin).....

This is what these people do. It requires no skill. They're not heroes. They're criminals looking to make money as easily as possible and in their line of work that means intimidation.

Take away the guns. Take away the entire gang.... skinny little, pimply $hits.

Everything you say is true, there is an ugly side to the general stereotype one sees in the media - just like other gangs - but what I meant was that my sifus were talking about viscious and skilled kung fu fighters that they knew personally, with actual examples of their "adventures".

[bawang]

the only adventure you know is with a man inside van at edge of forest

[Hardwork108]

the only adventure you know is with a man inside van at edge of forest

That is an ironic statement coming from a man whose officially residency is inside Dave Ross's nut sack....:rolleyes:

[Ray Pina]

Why did this turn into an MMA vs. Triads debate?

This MMA vs [anything else] I see in many topics really needs to stop. It's ruining the quality of threads in general. :mad:

edited: I took out some mean words

While not intended, I guess there is a similar theme: get your head straight so you look to the right places for quality. The folklore and hand-me-down stories do not relate to reality.

[RiceWine]

While not intended, I guess there is a similar theme: get your head straight so you look to the right places for quality. The folklore and hand-me-down stories do not relate to reality.

I could have started a topic about how cute ducks are and some idiot will post some **** about how ducks wouldn't be able to beat an MMA fighter.

It's thead jacking at best and trolling at worst.

I think you should be banned

[Hardwork108]

I could have started a topic about how cute ducks are and some idiot will post some **** about how ducks wouldn't be able to beat an MMA fighter.

It's thead jacking at best and trolling at worst.

I think you should be banned

I understand what you are saying and I agree and symphasize with you. Almost every thread in this KUNG FU forum seems to end up a MMA vs TCMA or other thread.


Having said that, Ray is a genuine martial artist with plenty of experience in the MAs and he has also trained in TCMAs. I would say that he has a lot of relevant knowledge when compared to this forum's resident bunch of glorified kickboxers who hijack genuine TCMA threads and turn them into "MMA is Great" discussions.

Just saying that I would never wish him banned as there are at least half a dozen individuals here who should be banned for their clueless interuptions and decietful behavior. :)

[Xiao3 Meng4]

i would make a very strong response, but im scare of david jameon. he is drunk with power.

i never told anyone on this forum, but bawang in mandarin means a small baby cow that has just been born and hasnt opened its eyes yet, which resembles a purple eggplant.

LOL, you are the 霸王 of wit.



there are at least half a dozen individuals here who should be banned for their clueless interuptions and decietful behavior. :)

Agreed: I for one would participate actively again if threads were safe from being derailed by your interruptions, deceit and elitism.

[Hardwork108]

Agreed: I for one would participate actively again if threads were safe from being derailed by your interruptions, deceit and elitism.

Please give an example of my "deceit"!!!

[Unless you believe that it is deceit when one tells people that there are TCMA methodolgies out there that they have no clue about, if so, then the clueless will see this fact as elitism and hence will derail a given thread by whining about it! This has happened dozens of times in this very forum!]

Thanks in advance!!!

[Faruq]

i would make a very strong response, but im scare of david jameon. he is drunk with power.

i never told anyone on this forum, but bawang in mandarin means a small baby cow that has just been born and hasnt opened its eyes yet, which resembles a purple eggplant.

I feel deceived, Bawang Shifu. I just found out that "bawang" actually means despot king, or tyrant. I feel just like the guys who pay the $500 for the fake Bai Shee ceremony and mastery certificate. I am devastated....

[Dark Chi]

especially places like Fut San.

Is it on this clip by any chance?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Wb52XXmts

Low level practitioners need not apply LOL

[Dragonzbane76]

I love people spamming the same stuff across multiple threads :rolleyes:

[Snipsky]

I love people spamming the same stuff across multiple threads

I think the guy has some wierd kind of krush on me or something. LOL.

[GeneChing]

Earlier post on martial arts gangs here (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1124649#post1124649). Also see Jackie Chan - Message to East Timor (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51325).



East Timor Bans Martial Arts Clubs Amid Killings (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/east-timor-bans-martial-arts-schools-amid-killings-20340072)
DILI, East Timor September 23, 2013 (AP)
By GUIDO GOULART Associated Press

East Timor police say there will be zero tolerance against those who continue to practice a local martial art after the government banned all clubs following deadly gang violence, an official said Monday.

At least 12 East Timorese have been killed and more than 200 injured in the past two years as a result of fighting among rival pencak silat clubs, said Armando Monteiro, National Police detective chief. Two were killed in neighboring Indonesia, while other deaths and injuries have occurred as far away as England and Ireland. He said the number of casualties is likely higher since many people are afraid to report gang activity or go to the hospital for treatment.

"Any martial arts clubs members that violate the government resolution will be dealt with under the law," Monteiro said. There will be "zero tolerance for martial arts activities in the country."

Schools and clubs for pencak silat, an adapted form of the Indonesian martial art, have a long history in East Timor, with many students in the past fighting against Indonesia's military occupation. They also became active clandestine members in supporting guerrilla fighters and some made significant contributions toward winning the country's independence in 2002.

Later, martial arts students became rivals and began killing each other in the streets as happened in 2006 during a violent political crisis that left dozens dead and tens of thousands displaced in the tiny half-island nation.

In many villages across East Timor, students start learning pencak silat at age 13. Less popular martial arts, such as karate, kung fu, taekwondo and judo, are not banned.

Prime Minister Xanana Gusmao issued a resolution outlawing the popular clubs two months ago. He said he has tried to work with the groups for years to allow them to continue to operate peacefully, but said the original purpose and philosophy of martial arts has been lost in East Timor.

"I have no more mercy and no more patience," said Gusmao, who added he has tried to work with the groups since becoming the country's first president in 2002. "I cannot tolerate the situation anymore, and I cannot permit it anymore."

Gusmao said police and members of the military have been told to leave martial arts groups or be fired.

Some clubs have publicly handed over their uniforms to police in front of government officials, but police say some members continue to conduct their training secretly at night.

Monteiro said anyone caught violating the resolution will be punished under the law. Seven martial arts clubs were registered, but many others exist without the government's knowledge making it difficult to estimate the number of members nationwide.

Last month, one East Timorese student was killed at Widyagama University in Malang, Indonesia, and another had his hand cut off with a samurai sword by a martial arts gang member.

"I need justice because the suspects who cut off my hand have not yet been captured by the police," said Jacinto Cipriano Ximenes, 25, a final-year telecommunications student who plans to return to school and finish his studies this year.

[PalmStriker]

:) TCMA UnderBelly: http://chinesemartialstudies.com/2014/07/18/book-club-like-froth-floating-on-the-sea-the-world-of-pirates-and-seafarers-in-late-imperial-south-china/

[hskwarrior]

TCMA UnderBelly: http://chinesemartialstudies.com/201...l-south-china/



that underbelly was responsible for overthrowing the qing in 1911. they are hero's. the strong ones. those "INTELLECTUAL" blah blah blahs didn't do anything but cower in the corner.

[PalmStriker]

that underbelly was responsible for overthrowing the qing in 1911. they are hero's. the strong ones. those "INTELLECTUAL" blah blah blahs didn't do anything but cower in the corner.
:) Yes, quite right. That is usually the prescription when the people are ruled over by greedy, corrupt, evil tyrants.

[GeneChing]

There isn't any Kung Fu mentioned in this news, but I'm intrigued that it was in Italy, cradle of the mafia.


JANUARY 18, 2018 / 7:33 AM / UPDATED A DAY AGO
Italy breaks up Chinese crime ring involved in drugs, prostitution (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-italy-mafia-china/italy-breaks-up-chinese-crime-ring-involved-in-drugs-prostitution-idUSKBN1F724K)
Silvia Ognibene
3 MIN READ

FLORENCE, Italy (Reuters) - Italy ordered the arrest of 33 people on Thursday on suspicion of running a Chinese mafia group involved in gambling, prostitution and drugs, and which dominated the transport of Chinese goods across Europe.

The group’s base was in Prato, near Florence, a hub for the textile industry where many factories are owned and run by Chinese, police said in a statement.

But the network had members in other parts of Italy and across Europe, with arrest warrants issued in Rome, Milan, Padua, Paris, Madrid and Neuss, Germany, the statement said.

Those detained are accused of being members of a mafia organization and other crimes.

The suspected boss, Naizhong Zhang, was based in Rome. He used profits from illegal activities to build a massive transport company that dominated the trucking of goods for thousands of Chinese companies, police said.

In one phone intercept published in a court document, Zhang recounts meeting three associates in France and telling them they could stop working with him if they wished. “I only said two things. ‘If you go with me, you will live. If you go against me, you will die,'” he is quoted as saying.

“The next day, at midday, they all three came to me and said they wanted to join forces,” he added.

It was not immediately possible to contact the arrested men or their lawyers for comment.

Zhang won a near-monopoly in distribution across much of Europe through threats and violence against Chinese company owners, anti-mafia prosecutors said.

Thursday’s operation broke up “a dangerous organization that had used force to take control of trucking, and was financed by its illegal activities,” Italian Interior Minister Marco Minniti said in a statement.

Italy has a long history of home-grown organized crime, including the Sicilian Mafia and the Calabrian ‘Ndrangheta, but immigration to Europe has opened the way for foreign crime groups to take root, including the Nigerian and Chinese mafias.

“Being able to shed light on mafia character of this group is almost incredible,” Federico Cafiero De Raho, Italy’s chief anti-mafia prosecutor, told a news conference.

“It’s quite unusual to be able to identify a complex Chinese mafia organization.”

The investigation, called “China Truck”, began in 2011 following a turf war in Prato between rival Chinese gangs -- one group originating from Zhejiang province in eastern China and the other from the southeastern province of Fujian.

Some 40 people were thought to have been murdered between 2005-2010 before Zhang, who came from Zhejiang, emerged from the war as the undisputed criminal boss, a judicial source said.

Magistrates estimated that his group’s business activities were worth “hundreds of millions of euros”.

Apart from the arrests, prosecutors seized eight companies and an equal number of vehicles and “a few” millions of euros.

Writing by Steve Scherer and Crispian Balmer in Rome; Editing by Catherine Evans

[GeneChing]

Deported...to the U.S.

A legal immigrant.


The last goodbye: Hong Kong’s ‘King of Thieves’ Kwai Ping-hung spends final night behind bars playing games and chatting to inmates (https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-and-crime/article/3046560/last-goodbye-hong-kongs-king-thieves-kwai-ping-hung)
Notorious gangster given fish and rice for last supper which he ate alone in his cell
Kwai will be escorted to Hong Kong International Airport under heavy security and deported to the US
Christy Leung
Published: 5:09pm, 17 Jan, 2020

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2020/01/17/be2d75b6-38f0-11ea-9933-e21be988cd59_image_hires_204922.JPG?itok=YxhqRhDu&v=1579265371
Kwai Ping-hung will be released from Stanley Prison on Saturday after spending the past 16 years behind bars. Photo: Handout

Kwai Ping-hung, the “King of Thieves” who has been in prison for 16 years, will bid farewell to fellow inmates on his last night in prison, before he walks free on Saturday and is deported to the United States.
The 59-year-old US passport holder, once Hong Kong’s most wanted gangster, is set to be released from the maximum security facility, Stanley Prison, in the morning and will be escorted under tight security to Hong Kong International Airport to take a flight to New York.
A government source told the Post that on their last day behind bars, most prisoners usually gather with others, shake hands and say goodbye during evening recreation time.
“Kwai is expected to do the same as he gets along with other inmates well. He made some friends there,” the source said.
On his last full day in brown prison garb with his name tag on it, Kwai was still required to work, but he had one last run around with his fellow inmates during the afternoon break.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2020/01/17/dfc2df62-3905-11ea-9933-e21be988cd59_1320x770_204922.jpg
Stanley Prison cell

Around 5pm, the former crime lord was served with fish and rice for his final supper behind bars, and instead of a big celebration, he ate alone in his own 80.7 square foot single cell.
Kwai is expected to spend around two hours of free time on his own, before the light goes out at 10pm.
Since Kwai was convicted in 2005, his life has been limited to a single cell with a plastic bed, a plastic desk attached to the wall, a plastic chair, and a sink and toilet made of stainless steel. His daily routine saw him waking up at 6.30am, having breakfast at 8am, and working for 3½ hours before lunch.
He had another working session in the afternoon before dinner and leisure time at 5pm. Cells are locked at 8pm and lights must go out at 10pm.
Kwai’s release has prompted law enforcement to be put on high alert, as the former crime lord was labelled “an extremely dangerous figure” by police.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2020/01/17/b9fd1a6e-38f0-11ea-9933-e21be988cd59_1320x770_204922.JPG
Kwai Ping-hung arrives at Eastern Magistrates’ Court in Sai Wan Ho under heavy security in December 2003. Photo: Martin Chan

The Post has been told that elite police officers from the Special Duties Unit (SDU), dubbed the Flying Tigers, will be on standby on Saturday. The former gangster will leave prison accompanied by Correctional Services Department staff, who will hand him over to immigration and police officers to escort him to the airport.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2020/01/17/bc2d50ac-3908-11ea-9933-e21be988cd59_1320x770_204922.JPG
When Kwai Ping-hung was arrested on Christmas Eve in 2003, police seized the largest haul of weapons for 30 years. Photo: AP

Also known as Guan Derong, Kwai, who came to the city illegally from China in 1980, was caught on Christmas Eve 2003 after the SDU broke into his Yau Ma Tei flat as he slept. Officers made the biggest seizure of firearms for nearly 30 years during the raid, and found a wide range of weapons, including shotguns, self-loading pistols, almost 900 rounds of ammunition, and seven grenades.
Not a single shot was fired during the three-hour raid as Kwai was literally caught napping. The arrest was described as “the best Christmas gift to Hongkongers” and brought an end to an era when larger-than-life criminals armed with AK47s turned Hong Kong’s streets into shooting galleries.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2020/01/17/c0dba18e-38f0-11ea-9933-e21be988cd59_1320x770_204922.JPG
Police escort a hooded Kwai Ping-hung out of a building in Yau Ma Tei after his arrest in December 2003. Photo: Handout

For all of his convictions, Kwai was handed a total jail term of 24 years in 2005. Another government source told the Post the gangster received a one-third reduction for good behaviour.
During the 1980s and 90s, Hong Kong was gripped by a crime wave that saw police battling heavily armed criminals on the streets of its busiest neighbourhoods, as many crime bosses from Guangdong province sneaked into the city to carry out high-profile robberies of jewellery shops. It prompted the force to expand its structure and strengthen its arms.
Kwai was suspected of committing 20 armed robberies over the course of 30 years, including shooting and wounding two policemen in Mong Kok in 2001.
Then organised crime and triad bureau head, Andy Tsang Wai-hung – who later became the commissioner of police – posted a record HK$2 million reward for the capture of Kwai, and had Interpol issue a red notice, asking law enforcement worldwide to help find the wanted man.

This article appeared in the South China Morning Post print edition as: ‘King of Thieves’ bids farewell to fellow inmates on his last night behind bars