defining what a "shoot" is

[monji112000]

It seems like allot of people talk and say they can defend the “shoot”. It clear to me that most of them don't even know what a “shoot” is.

What is the difference between the bear hug, wrestling single leg/double leg , and how people do it in MMA and sanda?

How do you properly mechanically do a takedown?

How do you setup and at what distance do you attempt a takedown?

If you want to respond why not first give your background, that way we can understand your answer better. If you have never trained in BJJ or high school wrestling , greco, MMA then it would help to know that so we can filter your answer.


background in wrestling, mma, ect.. = 0 :D

single leg : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRHaVzyNHfg

double leg:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3Sjq9XOIzA&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZggaJFnY5U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLU_kPOASOU&mode=related&search=

Some differences I see are .. some people lean forward others drop their base first. I would think that dropping your base is safer..

[lkfmdc]

Changing levels and shooting for legs is an excellent tactic to go under attacks, particularly punches. Lower your base, bend your knees and lower your hips while keeping your head erect. The lead leg steps forward, with the rear foot “pushing off” for maximum penetration.

Double leg tackles can be done standing or with a drop to the knee.
Drive forward as you seize both his legs behind the knees and thrusting your shoulder into the hips. Continue to drive forward until you pull both of your opponent’s legs off the ground. If necessary, continue to drive forward, dropping to a knee to complete the takedown.

Single leg takedown's have a lot of variations, high, low, running the pipe, etc but are often used in chains with double legs

[BruceSteveRoy]

What is the difference between the beer hug, wrestling single leg/double leg , and how people do it in MMA and sanda?
.

the beer hug is nothing like the others. it usually happens at the end of a very fun night and is done face down on the bar with your arm wrapped around your pint glass. unless its a kegger and then it is very often face down on the back lawn with your arms hugging the keg (most frequently results in sharpie marker drawings all over the body courtesy of mischeviuos fellow drunkards)

[monji112000]

Double leg tackles can be done standing or with a drop to the knee.
Whats the difference between shooting while standing vrs dropping to your knees? I notice allot of people drop in freestyle wrestling, and not as many in MMA style events.

What about setups? off jab, cross, hook, he is punching ect..

I tend to see allot of people practice or show defenses were the guy is like 10 feet away.. doesn't set it up and does a **** poor job of basic body positioning.

[lkfmdc]

dropping to a knee gets you lower and gets you more penetration, but if they esapce you are in a less advantageous position

IMHO, you should never be on more than ONE knee at a time no matter what.

also, IMHO you should not shoot unless you can jab them in the face... ie that close....

there is a "turning the corner" variation on double leg takedown, you can use hooks and overhands to set them up

there are actually TONS of ways to use punches and kicks to set up your takedowns

[monji112000]

dropping to a knee gets you lower and gets you more penetration, but if they esapce you are in a less advantageous position

IMHO, you should never be on more than ONE knee at a time no matter what.

also, IMHO you should not shoot unless you can jab them in the face... ie that close....

there is a "turning the corner" variation on double leg takedown, you can use hooks and overhands to set them up

there are actually TONS of ways to use punches and kicks to set up your takedowns

this may be off in the deep end but it would seem that the lower you are the easier it is to eat a knee... well if you set it up properly probably you will catch him off anyway.

[lkfmdc]

this may be off in the deep end but it would seem that the lower you are the easier it is to eat a knee... well if you set it up properly probably you will catch him off anyway.

proper level change is done with the back straight, making it very hard to eat a knee... not that it can't happen, it HAS, but it's a percentage thing, expecially if you are a good wrestler with a good shoot and proper timing

[specialed]

Changing levels and shooting for legs is an excellent tactic to go under attacks, particularly punches. Lower your base, bend your knees and lower your hips while keeping your head erect. The lead leg steps forward, with the rear foot “pushing off” for maximum penetration.

Double leg tackles can be done standing or with a drop to the knee.
Drive forward as you seize both his legs behind the knees and thrusting your shoulder into the hips. Continue to drive forward until you pull both of your opponent’s legs off the ground. If necessary, continue to drive forward, dropping to a knee to complete the takedown.

Single leg takedown's have a lot of variations, high, low, running the pipe, etc but are often used in chains with double legs

lkfmdc, what is your wrestling experience? did you learn this in your hapkido training?

[unkokusai]

Drive forward as you seize both his legs behind the knees and thrusting your shoulder into the hips.

Penetrating through the opponent's base is more important than 'thrusting' your shoulders. That will happen as a consequence of good penetration, but not without it.

[unkokusai]

Single leg takedown's have a lot of variations, high, low, running the pipe, etc but are often used in chains with double legs



Running the pipe is a finish rather than a shot.

[unkokusai]

there is a "turning the corner" variation on double leg takedown,

Again, that is not a shot, but one possible way to finish.

[lkfmdc]

Again, that is not a shot, but one possible way to finish.

to which I respond "no duh" :rolleyes:

the original poster asked not only about shooting but about bear hugs, double legs and single legs... doubles, singles, running the pipe, turning the corner, etc are most certainly associated with the shoot, which is how you GET THERE....

[unkokusai]

Your were presenting certain finishes as if they were 'types' of shots. That might very well be misleading to the uninitiated.

[lkfmdc]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and suggest that anyone who is really looking to the internet to learn what a shoot is, how to do it and what a takedown is and how to finish it, is gonna get a good bit confused no matter what is posted...

but that could just be me....

[unkokusai]

Well, isn't that what the guy who started this thread was doing?

[lkfmdc]

well, let's deconstruct the original post then....




It seems like allot of people talk and say they can defend the “shoot”. It clear to me that most of them don't even know what a “shoot” is.



You won't get an argument here, most people who talk in TMA circles about defending against shoots have no idea what a real shoot is....

So we're clear, a shoot involves level change and penetration so you can secure a takedown




What is the difference between the bear hug, wrestling single leg/double leg ,



a bear hug is upper body clinching, the sort of thing that Greco Roman specializes in and, while I can shoot from some upper body clinches, is generally not related to shooting




How do you properly mechanically do a takedown?



which one? I listed a lot of takedowns and finish variations..... remember that wrestling is an entire art basicly dedicated to this science

[unkokusai]

Wrestling is not "dedicated" to takedowns alone.

[lkfmdc]

you must sit around all day thinking of ways to post something contrary :rolleyes:

[unkokusai]

I'm not forcing you to post things that are inaccurate.

[lkfmdc]

nothing I posted was in the least inaccurate, you just apparently like to sit and post crap for the sake of posting :rolleyes:

oh, I forgot, you are the world's sole authority on all things :rolleyes:

[specialed]

so lkfmdc, which of the following teachers trained you in the intricacies of the shoot? Did you ever compete in wrestling during the freetime you had between the various kung fu classes?



Originally Posted by lkfmdc
People I've studied directly with
Chan Tai San (Lama Pai/Choy Lay Fut)
Jeng Hsin Ping (Shuai Jiao)
YC Wong (Pek Gwa)
Thomas Yeung (Hung Ga)
Tai Yim (Hung Fut)
Yip Wing HOng (Dragon Style)
Cheung Wah (7 star praying mantis and Fukien Lion)
Ho Chih Yu (7 star mantis)
Wong Ching (Lama Pai)
Adam Hsu (Ba Ji, Long Fist)
Tam Jam (Village Hung)
"Iron Head" Li (Village Hung)

[lkfmdc]

Here are two of the sifu who taught me wrestling

http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/kingofsanda/matmerandy.jpg

of course, if you are ever in NYC and would like to see my wrestling up close :rolleyes:

[specialed]

Here are two of the sifu who taught me wrestling

http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/kingofsanda/matmerandy.jpg

of course, if you are ever in NYC and would like to see my wrestling up close :rolleyes:

you're very lucky. how many years did you spend training with them? or was it hours, as in some lame seminar? sorry pal, you can't be an expert all the time:rolleyes:

[lkfmdc]

I've trained with John Saylor, who was the US Olympic Judo team coach AND a medalist in free style wrestling in the Pan Americans. I trained with Team Quest. I've trained with Chute Boxe.

I'm sorry you are no one, trained with no one, and don't know anything. I'm sure it makes you feel very sad and angry, but it isn't my fault. Again, if you are truly curious you could come on down, you are in NY aren't you?

[specialed]

I've trained with John Saylor, who was the US Olympic Judo team coach AND a medalist in free style wrestling in the Pan Americans. I trained with Team Quest. I've trained with Chute Boxe.

I'm sorry you are no one, trained with no one, and don't know anything. I'm sure it makes you feel very sad and angry, but it isn't my fault. Again, if you are truly curious you could come on down, you are in NY aren't you?

A: training for a few hours does not an expert make.

B: no, i'm not angry or sad. i just like making fun of you because you're an undeservingly arrogant wang.

C: i'm not in new york. never have been. if i do ever go there, i'll take you up on your offer to wrestle, however you'll need to practice some before you can handle it.

[lkfmdc]

Specialed, your posts are more than enough evidence that you are angry, bitter and very sad

Achievement isn't arrogance. Only people who have no achievements and are bitter about it confuse the two....

Have a nice night.....

[specialed]

Specialed, your posts are more than enough evidence that you are angry, bitter and very sad

Achievement isn't arrogance. Only people who have no achievements and are bitter about it confuse the two....

Have a nice night.....

you're claiming a degree in psychology now? you silly boy, what you call an achievment, i call riding coat tails. here's a task for you---research the condition known as megalomania.;)

[lkfmdc]

what you call an achievment, i call riding coat tails.



and whose coat tails would that be? I run my own school and I train my own fighters

when New York San Da students fight and win, whose coat tails are they riding on, one wonders....

dude, you're pathetic

[unkokusai]

I'm sorry you are no one, trained with no one, and don't know anything.



Hmmmmm....





oh, I forgot, you are the world's sole authority on all things



How do these two attitudes coexist in one person?

[monji112000]

so lkfmdc, which of the following teachers trained you in the intricacies of the shoot? Did you ever compete in wrestling during the freetime you had between the various kung fu classes?


blah blah nothing relating to the topic or useful

OK first off stop taking over my thread and destroying something that was productive. WTF? GO AWAY you have nothing to add you didn't list your background . you are nothing but a annoying person who should be taken outside and beaten until you realize what a *** you are making of yourself.

oh have a nice day :D

[lkfmdc]

How do these two attitudes coexist in one person?

I guess we can add dense and unable to read English to your descriptive phrases since clearly the first quote was directed at special ed and the second quote was directed at YOU.... or are you both the same person? :rolleyes:

[unkokusai]

Both statements came from you, did they not? Why the contradictory attitudes?

Someone gets on your case and its, "You ignorant turd!" but someone points out your inaccurate representation of facts and its, "Oooh, don't you think you know everything!"

Which is it, champ?

[monji112000]

Both statements came from you, did they not? Why the contradictory attitudes?

Someone gets on your case and its, "You ignorant turd!" but someone points out your inaccurate representation of facts and its, "Oooh, don't you think you know everything!"

Which is it, champ?

why are you posting here? you have nothing productive to add.:confused:

[unkokusai]

OK first off stop taking over my thread and destroying something that was productive. WTF? GO AWAY you have nothing to add you didn't list your background . you are nothing but a annoying person who should be taken outside and beaten until you realize what a *** you are making of yourself.

oh have a nice day :D

Ease up on the anger, chief. Just clarifying some of the information presented is all. Take it easy.

[unkokusai]

why are you posting here? you have nothing productive to add.:confused:

Gee, I thought I had already added something productive by clarifying a few things for you.

I sense great anger in you, young Jedi...

[monji112000]

Gee, I thought I had already added something productive by clarifying a few things for you.

I sense great anger in you, young Jedi...

yah I just got done training, something you may or may not want to do. Nope yah didn't clarify a thing, sorry. Anyway if you look at the subject of my original post it had nothing to do with informing me. anyway I think the thread did all I wanted it really do. So if anyone does read it they can go.. hmm maybe I am training wrong let me try and fix it.

if you or your twin do visit NY please let me know. I would enjoy wrestling with you. always looking to train with people who are "better" than me, and from the looks of your post it would be a fun experience. I may or may not have to wait in line though...

good night.:rolleyes:

[unkokusai]

yah I just got done training, something you may or may not want to do. Nope yah didn't clarify a thing, sorry. Anyway if you look at the subject of my original post it had nothing to do with informing me. anyway I think the thread did all I wanted it really do. So if anyone does read it they can go.. hmm maybe I am training wrong let me try and fix it.

if you or your twin do visit NY please let me know. I would enjoy wrestling with you. always looking to train with people who are "better" than me, and from the looks of your post it would be a fun experience. I may or may not have to wait in line though...

good night.:rolleyes:



Come again?

[unkokusai]

I've trained with John Saylor, who was the US Olympic Judo team coach AND a medalist in free style wrestling in the Pan Americans. I trained with Team Quest. I've trained with Chute Boxe.



Wrestling is not kungfu. You don't get credit for what the folks you trained with did.

[specialed]

Wrestling is not kungfu. You don't get credit for what the folks you trained with did.

ah ha! someone understands now. see lkfmdc knows very well that the posed picture means nothing. it means nothing in kung fu, and it means even less in mma. he paid for that picture is my bet. and, it does not represent even a fraction of the amount of time, skill, and experience in wrestling that a guy like Couture has. but yet, somehow, he's now an expert on shooting like a wrestler.

[sanjuro_ronin]

What's this thread about again ??

[unkokusai]

Global warming

[lkfmdc]

he paid for that picture is my bet.



you constantly infer and claim all sorts of crap, funny you never have anything of substance to add nor can prove anything :rolleyes:

it's all pretty simple, my knowledge and/or skill level is apparent in the fact that the students I train use these things successfully in fighting and WIN....

Again, only pathetic losers who have no achievements of their own get all upset and troll internet boards, if the description fits.....

[lkfmdc]

What's this thread about again ??

now, it's about "special ed" and the fact that he's a bitter little person with no accomplishments, I think a smiley card or a fruit basket might cheer him up, but since he is anonymous there's no way to send it to him :rolleyes:

[sanjuro_ronin]

Global warming

Hot air and gas, got it :D

[specialed]

Hot air and gas, got it :D


exactly right! you've just described lkfmdc's wrestling shoot expertise. good job!

[sanjuro_ronin]

exactly right! you've just described lkfmdc's wrestling shoot expertise. good job!

I am a tad confused as to why you say this...I mean Ross is very straight forward about his stuff and background, we all know him in one way or another and he is an open book in terms of what and where he teaches.
What are your issues here and, on a side note, who are you?

[AmanuJRY]

It seems like allot of people talk and say they can defend the “shoot”. It clear to me that most of them don't even know what a “shoot” is.

What is the difference between the bear hug, wrestling single leg/double leg , and how people do it in MMA and sanda?

How do you properly mechanically do a takedown?

How do you setup and at what distance do you attempt a takedown?

If you want to respond why not first give your background, that way we can understand your answer better. If you have never trained in BJJ or high school wrestling , greco, MMA then it would help to know that so we can filter your answer...

Grappling background; wrestling - jr. HS level, very little; BJJ - low level in no-gi, studying Eddie Bravo's rubber guard; trained freestyle grappling for five yrs. (or so).

According to MMA heavyweight and Catch wrestler Josh Barnett, you should shoot off the front foot, keep your hips low (which if your opponent is doing the same means you should go even lower, hence dropping to a knee) and lift with your legs not your back, driving through your opponent.

How do you set up for one?....

How do you set up for a high kick?

Obviously, feints and distractions are key, and getting close enough to close the gap before shooting.

[lkfmdc]

on a side note, who are you?

LMFAO ;)

Need we re-state the obvious?

Special Ed is a TROLL

We established a long time ago, numerous times in fact, that if you aren't willing to give your real name, where you are and your background, it doesn't matter what you say, you have NO CREDIBILITY

Now, of course, in "special ed" case, we also have his complete and obvious lack of any meaningful point.

He whined about how many famous teachers I've studied with, yet clearly was unable to produce anything in rebuttal, no "smoking gun"

In this very thread, he accused me of "riding coat tails"... only to completely retreat because of how foolish that is to pursue. How is running my own very successful school and training very successful fighters riding anyone's coat tails?

If I have so little experience with wrestling and shooting, why do my students seem to do it so well?

http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/kingofsanda/nysd4.jpg

http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/kingofsanda/nysd13.jpg

http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/kingofsanda/nysd14.jpg

Finally, there is the obvious fact that in 69 posts Ed has never contributed a single positive thing to this forum. All 69 of his posts are pokes at people, successful people, the obvious bitter resentment is overwhelming

have a nice day :D

[unkokusai]

You realize that none of those photos actually showed a shot, right?

[lkfmdc]

You realize that none of your posts are the least bit amusing, right?

(no, you're correct, those are the result of a creative dance experiement gone wrong)

:rolleyes:

[unkokusai]

Its just that on the topic of shooting, you might have posted something showing a shot, is all I'm saying.

[unkokusai]

I'd like to apologize by hurting your feelings by correcting you. A few extra sessions with your shrink and you should be back to your normal state of believing you are incapable of being wrong.

[lkfmdc]

"Unkokusai thought his girlfriend did not have a harelip, but it was in fact obscured by her mustache, making his assumption misleadingly inaccurate."

[unkokusai]

There ya go, Champ. Hide your insecurities behind that big font. You are fooling everyone, really.


:rolleyes:

[lkfmdc]

spoken by the nameless, faceless troll who ran back to this thread because he was taking a beating on the other thread in order to act like he's being clever

or

spoken by the nameless, faceless troll who ran back to this thread because he was taking a beating on the other thread in order to act like he's being clever

[unkokusai]

Oh yeah, that's just what's happening...:rolleyes:

So you only want to talk about this thread on another thread? Good plan.

You just cannot get over a bit of correction, can you? Don't you see that as something of a personal flaw?