animal tech./street

[mkriii]

I want to pose a question to everyone that does some type of animal style. Do you think that using techniques that are patterned after animal movements such as a tiger claw rake to the face or a spear hand poke to the throat, etc...is effective or practical for a real fight. I have had this debate in other forums and I always get answers that it is not, I contend that it can be if incorporated correctly with "free" fighting and is done at the right time. I have had people say that a these techniques aren't useful anymore with the rise in MMA training. What is your all's take on this?

[The Willow Sword]

I will say that certain "animal" Techniques are very effective in a self defense situation. Poking the eyes(Mantis claw) or throat lock(drunken fist and Tiger claw), groin strike(Crane), testicle biting(hehe uhh dont have an animal designation for this one), eye gouges,fish hooking(dragon fist). whatever it takes to get the job done and NO I HAVENT done any testicle biting you NIMRODS:rolleyes:. But when you are defending your life then i say you do whatever is necessary.

Peace,TWS

[Sicilian Tofu M]

Take tiger claw its a palm strike(just as powerful as any strike), rake, grab(hair,wrist,face,joint locks) at any time. It can be done in mma minus the rake and hair pulling(great to controll or strike the head at the same time).

lepard fist you get 2in more reach in a smaller striking point then a punch+ can be done with mma gloves (my faverate)

crain crown hurts alot its a index finger's joint strike(needs lots of condishioning first) also can be done with mma gloves

dragon is a diffrent way of doing a tiger claw and can be done with mma gloves


snake is just finger strikes, can be done with mma gloves

MMA training is great, yes theirs rulles but its the most realistic sport you can do to practice basic striking, chin na(no small joints)and throws/ground work in full contact(very important). Animal tech is realistic if you understand why you are doing it.

[ammocase]

Of course MMA people are going to say those techniques dont work, cause they are barred and illegal in MMA, so they wont ever work for an mma guy. Even when UFC had no rules, these people knew well enough that doing such moves were savage and inapproipriate for competetion. I say you should get the right opinion from someone who actually trains with these techniques and have been in ecounters in the street, MMA is the closest we can legally get to seeing fighting reality, but its not actual reality... not by a long shot, but as it stands right now, its the closest are laws and morality will allow.

I take Hung Ga Kung Fu, and i train in San Shou with heavy mixed influence of Muay Thia and shootfighting, and i know to draw a line between street an the mat.

[madhusudan]

It's not a question of will the techniques work. Of course poking someone in the eye, or stabbing your fingers in their throat will do damage. The point is in a fight, most people will be using basic, brainless techniques to bash the other person.

I think everyone knows how the adrenaline can get to you. Unless you're a master, the best you can do is train those basic techniques to death on pads and work on your timing with sparring to land them.

But, I'm just drinking makkoli, so maybe I'm off.

[WinterPalm]

The fu-jow is great for reality combat.
Usually these sorts of things are said to be no good for ring/cage fighting due to the gloves and rules.
The arts were designed for street combat without rules or protective equipment.

[monji112000]

testicle biting(hehe uhh dont have an animal designation for this one)
...I .... w...... ... huh?:confused:

[kidswarrior]

It's not a question of will the techniques work. Of course poking someone in the eye, or stabbing your fingers in their throat will do damage. The point is in a fight, most people will be using basic, brainless techniques to bash the other person.

I think everyone knows how the adrenaline can get to you. Unless you're a master, the best you can do is train those basic techniques to death....I think madhusudan's on to something here. Yes, all these techniques (which I practice and teach) will do damage, but will we really use them when the adrenaline dumps and it's fight or flight? I'm beginning to think the ones that rely on gross motor skills, such as a straight-on tiger claw (palm heel) will work best at the outset of the fight; after all, this is nothing more than a variation of a straight punch. But the tiger claw's circular rake/pull/scratch/grab using more of the fingers seems to me a better follow up technique--after the adrenaline has sort of stabilized--than something to try to lead with.

Any thoughts one way or the other on this line of thinking? I'm open to learning ;)

[wiz cool c]

I have used tiger mouth to the throat, palm strike to the ear, chicken step kick to the groin all in real life they all worked well. I do sparr every week but never use any of these techniques in sparring.

[wiz cool c]

.

I take Hung Ga Kung Fu, and i train in San Shou with heavy mixed influence of Muay Thia and shootfighting, and i know to draw a line between street an the mat.[/QUOTE]

Do you know where I can find any san shou matches with hung gar guys fighting. I have always been interested in hung gar and watch a few of Yee's guys fight a while back but can't find any videos anywhere.

[hskwarrior]

okay can i jump in here.....

maybe one of the methods to use a tiger claw is to rake.......but being a CLF guy, and the tiger claw being my favorite technique........the rake of the tiger soooooo sells the technique short.

the tiger claw is meant to rip, tear, maim.....not scratch!

the butt of the palm can be used to smash a nose.....but i will rip your flesh straight from your skeleton if i can......

[shaolin_allan]

i agree with hsk actually. the tiger claw similiar to other claw techniques is meant to cause serious to deadly harm to your opponent. The eagle claw is meant to crush and severe nerves as you try to pierce the skin with your fingers. many but not all animal techniques can be used for the street i think but require modification and great timing and practice to do so.

[hskwarrior]

a good martial artist takes what he's learned and modifies, reshapes, redefines.......

a bad martial artist just repeats what he was taught.

martial arts HAS to be modified due to all the physically different people.....

[spaced]

I will say that certain "animal" Techniques are very effective in a self defense situation. Poking the eyes(Mantis claw) or throat lock(drunken fist and Tiger claw), groin strike(Crane), testicle biting(hehe uhh dont have an animal designation for this one), eye gouges,fish hooking(dragon fist). whatever it takes to get the job done and NO I HAVENT done any testicle biting you NIMRODS:rolleyes:. But when you are defending your life then i say you do whatever is necessary.

Peace,TWS

Grabbing the testicles in our style is known as Monkey Plucks the Fruit.

[spaced]

on a serious note, I think the reason why alot of the animal systems work, and I study white Crane and Tiger Kungfu, is because they non-standard movements. Animals have instinct, they just react without thinking or worrying about the outcome

In a fight where there is distance, I woud definatley use crane to defend, deflect, play with my opponent and attack where the opportunity arose, tiger would only come into it if the fight became an up close and personal fisticuffs, this would allow for the tiger ripping and clawing to the throat and legs, and of course the Monley Plucks the Fruit, ripping of the testicles, and take downs and grapplings which is another world entirely

I agree with other posts on here entirely, do what you have to do in a situation. I agree that you have to adapt your kungfu to the movement in society today.

And the end of the day the goal is to end the fight as qucikly as possible, so not stand there bouncing on your toes arms in fighting stance ready to go. You dont give your opponent the chance to think. remember that it will be unlikely that you will be confronted on the street by another martial arttisi, not impossible just unlikely, so they will not know how to fight properly, react, defend, move, weave like you. There arsenal may only comprise of punches (drunken haymaker!). Your arsenal, experience and knowldge of your kungfu means that you have the advantage straight away, thus meaning that you may not have to use certain movements (tiger claw, leopard punch, phoenix eye etc etc) A quick punch to the chin and forward thurst may be enought to put the guy down, end the fight (like used in sanda) and make a run for the hills

All boils down to the situation

[SDJerry]

The tiger claw when used properly also makes for a stronger bridge. That is why you see it used a lot when blocking. Striking, tearing, bridging... there are a ton of VERY effective uses.

[shaolin_allan]

i agree. many techniques in animal styles are defensive then become offensive. its definitely in the top for animal techniques, it never hurts having a very strong fu jow
:)

[MasterKiller]

I'm a wanna be tough guy who thinks i'm cool cause i talk tough on an internet forum but really i'm just insecure inside because i'm hiding my true sexual orientation, oh, and I'm a douche

[hskwarrior]

now thats what im talking about!!!!!!!!!!!

[Drake]

now thats what im talking about!!!!!!!!!!!

Just gotta dig in and RIP HIS STUPID LITTLE FACE OFF! JUST TEAR IT RIGHT OFF! AND SHOW IT TO HIM! SHOW HIM HIS STUPID FACE SO HE CAN SEE FOR HIMSELF HOW STUPID HE IS!

ok I'm done thx

[hskwarrior]

lmao......YEAH LIKE THAT DRAKE......lmao.

[shaolin_allan]

make sure you dig your fu jow in deep so any skin goes along with you. you really want to let them know you do tiger claw lol.

[doug maverick]

can;t go wrong with fu jow or lung jow either

[shaolin_allan]

leopard fist seems to be used quite a bit in many arts so im sure its a great technique for combat.

[doug maverick]

yea its a great sneak punch if it's aimed at the soft spots of the body its limited thou.