Do you think you are really learning Kung Fu??

[sonny1595]

I have a question to all who read here......Do you really think you are getting genuine Kung Fu Training? And if you believe you do..then how are you certain your training is genuine?

[xcakid]

Probably not. My current system is now going on its 2nd westerner generation. My Sifu's, teacher(Master Azzolini) moved to Taiwan and learned it from Master Chen who learned it from Fan Chi Sau. A student of his families martial art and also a student of Wang Zi Ping.

So when Master Azzolini came back to the US, I am sure he modified the training a bit to suit a more commercial way of training. And as with many instructors, they tend to modify things a bit to suit their taste or view of certain applications and way of conditioning/training.

From there it got handed down to my Sifu. I am sure he had changed a few things as well. I know for a fact he added 2 form to the curriculum.

This is now being handed down to me. Should I decide to open up a school, I already am thinking of changing the curriculum around a bit and deleting forms and substituting other forms in their place.

[stonecrusher69]

I have a question to all who read here......Do you really think you are getting genuine Kung Fu Training? And if you believe you do..then how are you certain your training is genuine?


sparr with someone who is good.If you defend yourself well it's real gong fu if not then it's fake. simple...

[sonny1595]

Kung Fu is not about defending it is counter attacking and sparring is not a real situation. A real fight would be over in seconds with Kung Fu you do not exchange strikes like boxing or MMA. Our stikes are to make 12 inches of penetration through the opponent, so how can you sparr with someone with out hurting them.

[sean_stonehart]

Kung Fu is not about defending it is counter attacking and sparring is not a real situation. A real fight would be over in seconds with Kung Fu you do not exchange strikes like boxing or MMA. Our stikes are to make 12 inches of penetration through the opponent, so how can you sparr with someone with out hurting them.

Ok so since you obviously have the correct training, answer your own questions for us.

[sonny1595]

Well at least you are honest......correct me if I am wrong any true Kung Fo training must come directly from the Temple. Also the Temple's will not allow any round eyes to train. Also Temple teachings are secret and if one is caught training Temple Secrets outside the Temple...this would be a serious situation? So the commercial training available to westerners must not really work?

LOL for your request for females - good effort

[sonny1595]

I am questioning proper training and i am wondering how many of us are really training under a true Master. How many true Masters are in the states? And how do you know that you are training under a true Master. You dont know..... we are sold on Commercial marketing and accept this as proper training. Bottom Line the true Art is a Secret and we can only learn what they what us to know. This has been the case always.

[sean_stonehart]

I am questioning proper training and i am wondering how many of us are really training under a true Master. How many true Masters are in the states? And how do you know that you are training under a true Master. You dont know..... we are sold on Commercial marketing and accept this as proper training. Bottom Line the true Art is a Secret and we can only learn what they what us to know. This has been the case always.

Well by your own arguement that means you don't either, which means this is an exercise in pointlessness & earns a rating of .375

Bye bye

[sonny1595]

With out a doubt you are not trained properly ......... this is not an argument this was to be an inquiry. So you are right conversation with you is a very low rateing.

[xcakid]

Well at least you are honest......correct me if I am wrong any true Kung Fo training must come directly from the Temple. Also the Temple's will not allow any round eyes to train. Also Temple teachings are secret and if one is caught training Temple Secrets outside the Temple...this would be a serious situation? So the commercial training available to westerners must not really work?

LOL for your request for females - good effort

What temple you speak of. Shaolin Temple?

1) Shaolin Temple is not where all CMA came from. Let's not forget, Damo brought in the martial exercise. Eagle Claw and some Long Fist was brought into the temple from the military, later adapted by Shaolin. Taiji, Xing Yi, Bagua, did not come from Shaolin.

2) Temple Secrets and not teaching round eyes ended when Shaolin burned down in the early 1900"s. There have been quite a few westerners that have become Shaolin Martial MOnks. There are quite a few monks that have migrated to the US and opened a school. Last July I took a class with Shi Yan Feng who now has a school in Houston.

I am basically saying that the training is not the traditional way of training. We no longer hold our mah bu stance for hours. We no longer practice punching into sand for hours. Spar full contact with no pads. But the same core training stands.

Commercial school not working. YOu would have to talk to my sifu about that. He is a police officer and uses Chin Na and various striking techniques on a weekly basis. Me personally I have won a few actual fights with what I have learned. Each instructor takes what he gets from his sifu. From there he opens his school and teaches based on his demographics to keep the school open and food on his table. The key is to have the right balance of teaching the right way and still keep students. If you teach too hard core, you will lose the none hard core students. If you teach too soft, you will lose the hard core students. So have to teach right down the middle.

Also westerners learn martial arts for a variety of reasons. Health fitness, defense, to become fighters, to be a forms dancer. In the olden days, there is only one purpose to learn martial art, to fight. So you have to modify your teaching to cater to all these personalities in a commercial school. Wether you're learning proper kung fu or not is up to your own perception of Kung Fu. If you want to fight and all you are doing is forms, you would not think you are learning good kung fu. Same can be said the other way around.

[B-Rad]

Well at least you are honest......correct me if I am wrong any true Kung Fo training must come directly from the Temple.
Well, you ARE wrong. Most true kungfu does not come directly from "The Temple".


Kung Fu is not about defending it is counter attacking and sparring is not a real situation. A real fight would be over in seconds with Kung Fu you do not exchange strikes like boxing or MMA. Our stikes are to make 12 inches of penetration through the opponent, so how can you sparr with someone with out hurting them.
Counter attacking is part of defense (sometimes the best defence is a good offense ;)). You can spar without hurting someone through self control. If a teacher's telling his students they're "too deadly" for sparring, he's a fraud plain and simple. Without sparring you will NEVER be a good fighter. It's not just about being strong, but learning timing, distance, control, and so on against a live resisting opponent (a lot different than pummeling inanimate objects or air ;)).

[stonecrusher69]

Kung Fu is not about defending it is counter attacking and sparring is not a real situation. A real fight would be over in seconds with Kung Fu you do not exchange strikes like boxing or MMA. Our stikes are to make 12 inches of penetration through the opponent, so how can you sparr with someone with out hurting them.


Sparring is not real fighting but it wll give you a good idea on how well you perform and if you have any real skill. How can you sparr without hurting your opponent is through control and wearing protection also when you sparr you don't have to hit with 100% power to see if you can fight.

[stonecrusher69]

I am questioning proper training and i am wondering how many of us are really training under a true Master. How many true Masters are in the states? And how do you know that you are training under a true Master. You dont know..... we are sold on Commercial marketing and accept this as proper training. Bottom Line the true Art is a Secret and we can only learn what they what us to know. This has been the case always.


real training is not secret..All good fighters train the same way,so see who is a good fighter then look to see how you train.Is it the same?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Kung Fu is not about defending it is counter attacking and sparring is not a real situation. A real fight would be over in seconds with Kung Fu you do not exchange strikes like boxing or MMA. Our stikes are to make 12 inches of penetration through the opponent, so how can you sparr with someone with out hurting them.

You should look into that "12 inches' thing, you made be getting depth of penetration confused with my naked pics on the net.
:D

[mkriii]

Who is this sonny bozo anyways? He was questioning the ability of my Sifu and questioning wheather he was legit and talking crap about m.a. schools being commercialized (mainly insinuating that my teachers school is not any good as far as learning goes because he is to commercialized by having set material for each sash which is what I have is well). He doesn't even know my Sifu. To answer his question....Yes I think and feel like I'm getting authentic Chinese Kung Fu. I know my teacher's teacher who happens to be the Grandmaster of the system. My sifu's name is Master John Dufresne. His teacher is Grandmaster John Wing Loc Ng. Both of whom are well know in m.a. community and both have been featured in several magazines.

[sonny1595]

It is obvious you are training only for combat and you are missing the other aspects of training…..so I hope you really have that 12 inches to play with.

[Jingwu Man]

Alright then, who do you train under and why is it better than anything here?

Personally, I'm positive I'm training in real gongfu. Maybe not the hardcore Chinese way, but I need to keep a job. When I can look at videos and photos of Masters in China, and know that I do the same stuff, I think that it's a pretty good sign of authenticity.When my Sigong and others come back from Shaolin with new applications, it's a pretty good sign.

So please, enlighten me as to what REAL gonfu is?

[Dim Wit Mak]

I know that I am because it has a funny sounding name and the instructor looks Asian to me.

[Immortal_Dragon]

Hard question to answer. Depends what you feel kung fu is defined as....like someone else posted. Lots of people who study "Kung Fu" are not necessarily doing it for fighting. It is a way of life and a good way of maintaining ones health. What do you say to a 60 year old master or student? Because of ones age they can't fight or should give up training all together? Hmmm then again I honestly believe some you think a 60 year old Kung Fu master/student probably has a long white beard and teaching "real shaolin" to unsuspected white folks.

[Lokhopkuen]

Chinese Martial Arts embody harmonized teaching and training techniques which serve as either self-defense, healing, psychological revelation, vivfying exercise, or a spiritual path, and could act as a catalyst to people who would normally not be interested in spiritual practices or other esoteric training.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Kung Fu is not about defending it is counter attacking and sparring is not a real situation. A real fight would be over in seconds with Kung Fu you do not exchange strikes like boxing or MMA. Our stikes are to make 12 inches of penetration through the opponent, so how can you sparr with someone with out hurting them.

Sonny must be a monster. I'd hate to enter his school. First, it must cost a fortune just to cover his insurance premiums. Second, since you have to make 12 inches of penetration, every newbie would get injured on the first day of class by one of the senior students, and I have to imagine that the senior students are locked in a death struggle not unlike the TV show Highlander, where there can only be one, and Sean Connery isn't it, but that funny sounding french guy is, go figure. See, everyone must constantly be getting injured.

Just one more case in which martial arts is too deadly to be practiced.

Oh, and if you get invovled in an altercation, and you use too much force to defend yourself, you become the assailant, in terms of law, and will be on the receiving end of 12 inches of penetration as you grip the bars in your prison cell.

[eomonroe00]

im everyone things they are training at a real school, at least people at their first school, but the more you see, the more schools you visit, - look at the fruit the tree produces-
and the guy on the first page was to the point, as did mark ho from that video last year

we can argue day and night, but if i beat you there is no more to argue about

[eomonroe00]

meant to say, everyone thinks they are training at a real school , or else they wouldnt be there, and the original poster is wrong to see all the real art is hidden, is some of it hidden, probably, was most of it at one time hidden, most likely, are more guys sharing more and more , yes-
a friend of mine was at a bogus school for a few years, now he is at a real one, so he def knows the difference

[sanjuro_ronin]

It is obvious you are training only for combat and you are missing the other aspects of training…..so I hope you really have that 12 inches to play with.

A girl once told me that she needed 10" to be satisfied, I had to decline of course, I ain't cutting Mr.Happy 2" for no one !!!
:D

[Judge Pen]

Who is this sonny bozo anyways? He was questioning the ability of my Sifu and questioning wheather he was legit and talking crap about m.a. schools being commercialized (mainly insinuating that my teachers school is not any good as far as learning goes because he is to commercialized by having set material for each sash which is what I have is well).


S Ucks when people jump to conclusions, huh? :p

[mkriii]

It is obvious that this Sonny guy doesn't know a thing about kung fu or any other Chinese martial art. He says that it isn't kung fu if it doesn't come from a temple....Which temple? There were three or four Shaolin temples. There is also a Wu Tang temple that teaches Wu Tang Kung Fu which is totally not Shaolin. Wu Tang teaches internal arts such as Tai Chi, Pa Qua, and Xing I Chaun. Here is a link to Wu Tang Temple.

http://www.wudangtao.com/

On top of that you have family styles of kung fu. So to say that it is not kung fu because it didn't come from a temple is crazy. Also for his information the Shaolin temple(s) are not what they used to be. They are commercialized. They are filled with tourists. Thousands of tourists visit the temple on a daily basis. This is one way the temple gets money to operate. I even heard that the temple was going to go on the stock market and sell stock.....I don't know if this is true or not though.

[stonecrusher69]

a true sign of a ligit school and a good teacher is if the sifu can do what they say. If they can't do what they say then it's all talk...

[mkriii]

Stonecrusher......I agree to a certain degree but there are some things that one can't do that he or she could have done in thier younger days. That doesn't mean that they can't teach someone how to do it. For axampl, teaching someone to do a back tuck. Someone may have been able to do that ten years ago but do to age can't do it anymore. They can still coach and teach someone how to do a back tuck. Do you think that Gus DeAmoto (who trained Mike Tyson) could still box like he used to 30 or 40 years ago? Does this mean that he can't coach or doesn't know what he is talking about?

[David Jamieson]

Kung Fu is not about defending it is counter attacking and sparring is not a real situation. A real fight would be over in seconds with Kung Fu you do not exchange strikes like boxing or MMA. Our stikes are to make 12 inches of penetration through the opponent, so how can you sparr with someone with out hurting them.

clearly, you are a noobzors of the highest calibre. lol

I just love it when people say things like this with ZERO to back up the statements.

12 second fight?

dude, it's either less than one second (bullet)

or who knows how long it'll take to break the other guys spirit, but Ive seen schoolyard brawls go for 3-5 minutes.

competition fights can go on and on and on until you gotta get up and go get another beer and be back for the last round and then, its a decision! arrrrgh.

anyway, if you are in 12 second fights where you win all the time, I would suggest that you stop going and beating on elementary school children because that is just nasty.

:p

as to yoru original question, I don't care what people think is genuine or not, what I care about is whether or not I can beat the crap out of you and take your fighting spirit from you before you can do same to me.

[stonecrusher69]

Stonecrusher......I agree to a certain degree but there are some things that one can't do that he or she could have done in thier younger days. That doesn't mean that they can't teach someone how to do it. For axampl, teaching someone to do a back tuck. Someone may have been able to do that ten years ago but do to age can't do it anymore. They can still coach and teach someone how to do a back tuck. Do you think that Gus DeAmoto (who trained Mike Tyson) could still box like he used to 30 or 40 years ago? Does this mean that he can't coach or doesn't know what he is talking about?


I agree when one gets older you can't do somethings like you used to.you can like you said teach it because you've done it and know how to pass it on,but what I meant was if say a sifu says he can use his kung fu in real fighting then when you see him sparr he can't ever use the same tecnqnes he taught then I think he's a bogas teacher.

[mkriii]

ok i agree with that.

[sk girl]

ok i agree with that.


At ussd it says shaolin on my certificate of rank but I clearly learned kempo.

[Wildwoo]

At ussd it says shaolin on my certificate of rank but I clearly learned kempo.

Kempo is Japanese Shaolin....

Sorta.

[NJM]

Kempo is Japanese Shaolin....

Sorta.

You're assuming that the monks that brought it to Japan were Shaolin direct.. :P

[xcakid]

Kempo is not Japanese Shaolin.

To be exact, Shorin is Japanese Shaolin. Shorin Ryu is the only Japanese based art derived from Shaolin. Even then its a far cry from Shaolin Kung Fu.

Kempo is a hybrid system of Chinese and Japanese martial arts. This originated in Hawaii. Not Japan.

[Wannabemonk]

I've had two experiences with what I believed to be real kung fu teachers. For one, they didn't care about keeping students. If you found the training to be too hard you quit. Everyone in the class worked as one unit. If you were slacking behind for whatever the reason for to long you'd be asked to leave.

All out sparring matches? Lets be honest. People would be killed if they are using real Kung Fu. That doesn't mean they can't use somewhat controlled sparring.

What really set these schools apart from most is the small number of students. Hardcore training is not for everyone. Class was not treated as a social event. Since I was only barely starting I didn't get into the higher level training. Pain was your best teacher when it came to blocking and dodging. We were told to lay them out if they didn't block or get out the way. If you pull a padded punch you aren't helping yourself and you aren't helping the person you are punching at.

Did I mention that they had no belt levels or slashes or anything else besides of where you stood in line?

When I asked my previous teacher rather or not his training was real he told me what he didn't know. He said that he would teach in a way that was no easier than what he was taught and pass on his teachers training as they were passed on to him. If Dr. Wu was lying about studying in China, he took his lie to the grave. It was up to us rather or not we thought it was real and wished to continue learning from our current sifu.

[onehawaiian]

yes, i am learning real kung fu.
...among other disciplines.

[LarryD]

Well at least you are honest......correct me if I am wrong any true Kung Fo training must come directly from the Temple. Also the Temple's will not allow any round eyes to train. Also Temple teachings are secret and if one is caught training Temple Secrets outside the Temple...this would be a serious situation? So the commercial training available to westerners must not really work?

LOL for your request for females - good effort

LOL The "temple" is commercialize now. They will take you in if you have the green. If you want to learn real chinese MA just go down to one of the parks at 5 am and watch the old people that show up. BTW, Kung Fu is not a style. It's the term for a skill achived through time and hard work.

[mkriii]

Well at least you are honest......correct me if I am wrong any true Kung Fo training must come directly from the Temple. Also the Temple's will not allow any round eyes to train. Also Temple teachings are secret and if one is caught training Temple Secrets outside the Temple...this would be a serious situation? So the commercial training available to westerners must not really work?

LOL for your request for females - good effort


You are wrong.

Not all Kung Fu comes from the temple. You have family styles of kung fu. You also have more than one temple. You have the Wu Dang Temple which is Taoist in philosophy where as the Shaolin Temple is Buddist in philosophy. Wu Dang concentrates more on the internal martial arts such as Hsing I, Ba Qua, and Tai Chi. Shaolin does do internal training but mostly external styles such as tiger, crane, leopard, dragon, mantis, and monkey styles, ect..... There is a Shaolin Temple in Hunan Province and there was one in Fukien Province (southern China) before it was destroyed.

[unkokusai]

What a timely response.......... :rolleyes:

[mkriii]

Unk, my post was in response to LarryD's post so yes mine was timely. Bye the way, better watch the eye rolling or they might just keep rolling. :rolleyes:

[Lucas]

this guy doesnt even post here anymore i bet. or he gave up this troll persona for a better name.

OR

he couldnt handle the 12" of penetration and it killed him.

we can only hope....

[Fa Xing]

It such a rediculous idea though; that some fighting styles, particularly chinese ones, are too deadly to spar. How did people train to fight back in the old days?

Come on! Some practitioners are just extremely immature when it comes to their understanding of fighting and martial arts.

It justs shows that some people aren't willing to work hard and would like to be just told that at a certain point they are deadly weapons.

[mkriii]

Yep, it's just like Shaolin Do....Granmaster Sin The' states on his web site that his techniques are not for tournament because they are so deadly.......LOL. Give me a break. :D

[Lucas]

ive had to quarintine myself from society, i cant go outside or get a job or go to school because im so deadly people die if i look at them wrong.

[Lamassu]

Yep, it's just like Shaolin Do....Granmaster Sin The' states on his web site that his techniques are not for tournament because they are so deadly.......LOL. Give me a break. :D

Oh brother, here we go again. Let it go mkriii. :rolleyes:

[mkriii]

ive had to quarintine myself from society, i cant go outside or get a job or go to school because im so deadly people die if i look at them wrong.

I've had that same exact problem. It's tough being this good at kung fu. I had to register my hands with the state because I'm considered a deadly weapon. You know, thats what Barnie Fife had to do also.

[Fa Xing]

ive had to quarintine myself from society, i cant go outside or get a job or go to school because im so deadly people die if i look at them wrong.

LOL. That's why live in a mountain hermitage in the middle of Los Angeles!