Some Vids.

[SaintSage]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFbZoUSHeDQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27PCxCzKwOs


I'll post some vids of my sparring when I can.

[SanHeChuan]

Hey puting up vids is great, but don't waste our time. :cool:

If you want to show us something then SHOW us. You know what I mean?

I didn't know you only did Koren arts. Why hang out on a kung fu forum?

[SaintSage]

Hey, I'm six foot tall and weigh 220, I think that's showing something! I was also hoping that someone with better technique could help me with finer points like landing, I know that needs improvment.

As for why I hang here, I was trained under Grand Master Cha Sok Park (May he rest in peace) in a way I don't see in many TKD/HKD cirlces anymore. We trained live and with contact drills. We learned to punch and punch well. I don't tend to get along with or agree with lots of Korean Arts practictioners. I also just really like Chinese martial arts, and pick up stuff from them here and there.

[SanHeChuan]

I don't tend to get along with or agree with lots of Korean Arts practictioners.

Well I can respect that. Old school KMA.

What do you feel is wrong with your landing?

[SaintSage]

Even though I land IN a strong stance, I can't seem to land so much as slam. I feel confident in balance, but I wasn't sure if I was missing something someone else might be able to see.

[SanHeChuan]

After doing the hook kick. Instead of putting your foot down behind you. Pivot into a crane stance, kicking knee raised. That would help with your 'stomping' problem. Once you learn to control it better you can go back to the other way.

[Mr Punch]

I don't do TKD but have been shown the kicking a few times recently, so feel free to take this with a shovel of salt.

Extension and flexibility seem to be your probs. I know you're just kicking the air so you don't want to overextend but esp with the second kick your leg is very bent. It looks like this may be in turn from a hip flexibility problem, so you can't open your hips out enough to put your weight behind the kick, therefore can't commit fully to it, and therefore are landing weakly.

Although it's at odds with a lot of people who say you shouldn't overcommit your weight to your front leg after a kick in case of sweeps, I was taught by my TKD teacher that that's exactly what you want to do to plant firmly, to use all your bodyweight, and to get a good follow through attack.

My recs, dangerous amateur tho I am (! :D ): one legged squats, ATG squats, lunges, deadlifts and more kicking bags rather than air (progressing from bodyweight to weighted with each). Warm up with dynamic (but gentle) kicking exercises starting at less and working up to the range of movement you expect to use in the kicks (you know better than I the excellent dynamic stretching routines TKD has). This will help strengthen and soften up your hams, thighs, hips, knees and work your core so your lower back doesn't go because you've overworked your upper legs. Then hit a good static stretch routine for your hips to warm down.

Just a couple of ideas.

[Takuan]

If you're trying to land softly, land on the toe, you spin good 'n' stuff. It helped me when I was doin flippy spinny stuff.

Also from MMAforum's advice of the day: "You aren't Chuck Liddell, and neither is Chuck Liddell anymore, so keep your ****ed hands up." :O

[SaintSage]

After doing the hook kick. Instead of putting your foot down behind you. Pivot into a crane stance, kicking knee raised. That would help with your 'stomping' problem. Once you learn to control it better you can go back to the other way.

Thanks for the advice, that's sounds like a cool exercise.


I don't do TKD but have been shown the kicking a few times recently, so feel free to take this with a shovel of salt.

Extension and flexibility seem to be your probs. I know you're just kicking the air so you don't want to overextend but esp with the second kick your leg is very bent. It looks like this may be in turn from a hip flexibility problem, so you can't open your hips out enough to put your weight behind the kick, therefore can't commit fully to it, and therefore are landing weakly.

Although it's at odds with a lot of people who say you shouldn't overcommit your weight to your front leg after a kick in case of sweeps, I was taught by my TKD teacher that that's exactly what you want to do to plant firmly, to use all your bodyweight, and to get a good follow through attack.

My recs, dangerous amateur tho I am (! :D ): one legged squats, ATG squats, lunges, deadlifts and more kicking bags rather than air (progressing from bodyweight to weighted with each). Warm up with dynamic (but gentle) kicking exercises starting at less and working up to the range of movement you expect to use in the kicks (you know better than I the excellent dynamic stretching routines TKD has). This will help strengthen and soften up your hams, thighs, hips, knees and work your core so your lower back doesn't go because you've overworked your upper legs. Then hit a good static stretch routine for your hips to warm down.

Just a couple of ideas.

Thank you for the detailed response! Flexibility has ALWAYS been an issue for me. Sure I can kick high, but my legs just don't want to go past a certain point in static streches. It's funny you mention staring with dynamic, I almost always start with static...I will have to experiment....


If you're trying to land softly, land on the toe, you spin good 'n' stuff. It helped me when I was doin flippy spinny stuff.

Also from MMAforum's advice of the day: "You aren't Chuck Liddell, and neither is Chuck Liddell anymore, so keep your ****ed hands up." :O


Hehe, my sparring is much better in terms of keeping my hands up. I still could use some work, but thanks to my Kung Fu buddy I learned hands down meant stars!

[Mr Punch]

Thank you for the detailed response! Flexibility has ALWAYS been an issue for me. Sure I can kick high, but my legs just don't want to go past a certain point in static streches. It's funny you mention staring with dynamic, I almost always start with static...I will have to experiment...There are reams of literature now that will tell you static stretches are BAD before a workout. They strain muscles which are not even warmed up and loosen them so they don't even do their job properly, and so actually increase the chance of injury while not doing anything for long-term flexibility because your muscles will try to overcompensate during the post-workout recovery period.

Static stretches should be after the workout (but only gently) or preferably in separate sessions altogether.

[cjurakpt]

stop Phoenix from rising

[Mr Punch]

FFS get a grip man! It's like a disease! I was expecting some good physioliololololiological training advice from you and what do we get!?

The subject was: when (if?) to do static stretches and how it relates to the rest of your training...

[SaintSage]

It may just be psychosomatic, but it did feel a lot better to do dynamic and then static. Perhaps my plateau in flexibility came from outdated training... I'll stick with this for awhile and hopefully I'll see some improvement. Thanks again, Mr. Punch.

[sanjuro_ronin]

There are reams of literature now that will tell you static stretches are BAD before a workout. They strain muscles which are not even warmed up and loosen them so they don't even do their job properly, and so actually increase the chance of injury while not doing anything for long-term flexibility because your muscles will try to overcompensate during the post-workout recovery period.

Static stretches should be after the workout (but only gently) or preferably in separate sessions altogether.

Mr Punch has groin pulled the correct.

[Takuan]

Where did anyone ever say static stretches weren't good for you?!

All types of stretching have their place imo.

[Mr Punch]

Where did anyone ever say static stretches weren't good for you?!

All types of stretching have their place imo.I'll find some lit later - I'm at work now.

But, I didn't say it was outright bad... just bad as a sole warm-up or before any other kind of warm-up. I also said they have their place. Your warm-up should do just that - warm you up. If you go straight into static stretches cold, you'll increase the chance of injury.

Also it depends on what you're going to do: if you're doing heavy weights, you shouldn't static stretch before you train at all. Slowly going through the range of movement you're going to use is fine, but holding stretches at beyond that for 30 secs or so is not good.

If you're doing MA/cardio/HIIT, you should warm-up with dynamic stretches up to the range of movement you're going to use (and a little beyond doesn't hurt as long as you build up to it) and then, if you think it's necessary, as your muscles are already warmed-up, static stretches from there. Personally, though, I only really use them after this kind of workout, or as I said, as a separate session like yoga.

[sanjuro_ronin]

One of the many studies out there (google mofu) was done th ethe military and it showed that static stretches done as part of the warm up did NOT help increase the range of motion and even hampered the ability to produce strength.
Warm ups are just that, exercises that warm up the core body temperature.

Statics are best done as part of your cool down or a separate session like Mr Punch mentions after you warm up though.

Its pretty much "common knowledge" nowadays that warm ups should be moderate paced aerobic activities like calesthietics and dynamic stretches that start with limited range of motion and work their way to full range.

[SaintSage]

Its pretty much "common knowledge" nowadays that warm ups should be moderate paced aerobic activities like calesthietics and dynamic stretches that start with limited range of motion and work their way to full range.

Back in the old days we would start with running around the mat, followed by static stretches, dynamic streches, and then martial work. Perhaps an outdated method of excerise?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Back in the old days we would start with running around the mat, followed by static stretches, dynamic streches, and then martial work. Perhaps an outdated method of excerise?

In regards to the static stretches, pretty much, heck in the old days I don't recall doing a cool down in class, except for some jogging or crap like that.