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illusionfist
06-25-2000, 10:55 AM
We all know that bruce was pretty famous for his one inch punch, and believe me, i have seen the long beach video over and over again and it looks legit.

Now my question is this. Did bruce use "jing" (internal power) when he did his 1 inch punch? Because i have seen demos by tai chi masters that basically do the same thing except they use pure jing to achieve the desired result.

Now i know people can do it with simple waist rotation and what not, because i can do it that way. But everytime i see bruce's footage, it just doesn't look the same as people who do it now. There is power there that doesn't look generated from the hip.

Now for my second question, how in the hell did he cultivate it? It couldn't have been from the short span of tai chi he did with his father, and i know he totally disdained internal arts. So what's the skinny??

Peace /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Wongsifu
06-25-2000, 08:40 PM
I am not 100% on this but heres my 2 cents as you all say,
Bruce doesnt use jing he uses muscular strength combined with speed Ive seen the same video. The inch punch he does is not real Ie internal its external. If it was internal the guy would be spitting blood /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The training methods quite easy every day just take a dumbell and do the inch punch movement using the dumbell, thats it in about 3 months do it on someones shoulder and theyll go flying back

Ky-Fi
06-25-2000, 09:05 PM
Actually, I don't think "jing" translates to "internal power". I believe it translates to something like "manifested qi/li". The way it's been explained to me, every strike in every style is a combination of qi and li(muscular strength). "Jing" refers to the degree that one is able to combine those two forces into the power of the strike. As I understand it, it doesn't matter if you're a Taiji guy or a western boxer, you would still want to have powerful jing (although in different styles the proportion of qi to li might vary). I'm not that familiar with Bruce's technique to comment on the nature of his jing, but I don't think it would have been necessary for him to study an internal style to develop it.

fkchang
06-25-2000, 11:37 PM
If you're going to use pinyin,
jin is more accurate. Many of the older
"classics" of chinese MA have been translated
by folks who used Wade Giles, and have
used the spelling Chin (Fa Chin vs fa jin).

Doing so will make it less confused
with the chinese word jing (essense) (ching
in Wade Giles).

In short, a better translation for
jin might be "refined forced." Usually,
in martial arts texts they make a clear
distinction between jin (refined force)
and li (more of muscular strength
connotation).

In day to day chinese (as opposed
to martial arts jargon), jin and li both
tend to relate to strength. This synonym
type usage recurrs in martial arts
terminology in the usage of the term fali
(lit: emit strength) when refers to showing
some power (vs. doing it soft either as
in taiji form practice, or just not pummeling
your partner).

That said, every single chinese
martial seeks to cultivate "jin" and
consequently fajin (lit: emit refined
strength) as opposed to cultivation of
brute strength (which implies the best
way to martial arts is Gold's Gym --
though raw strengh does have it usages
and advantages).

Consequently, the jin cultivated
by different martial arts differ, as methods
differ. I have James DeMille's book on
the 1 and 3 inch punch, and based on some
of Bruce Lee's writings I have to conclude
that Bruce's exhibition of short power
is not the same as in taiji or xingyi based
on the following

1) the description in Sifu DeMille's
book simply reflects clever and efficient
body mechanics but not manipulation of neijin
(jargon for a specific physical thing) and
waist/dantian usage
2) Bruce Lee talks about adding the
shoulder ala western boxing, which while
effective runs counter to the use of neijin
and the waist/dantian -- no BS judgements as
to which is better/worse, they are different
3) The 1-3 inch punch from what I
can discern is more of a palor trick --
something for demos and special occasions
and thus is not an variation of one's normal
mechanics, whereas in taiji and xingyi,
short power is simply abrupt long power --
i.e. same mechanics, different duration,
rather than specialized mechanics for a
special purpose.

W/in chinese MA Wing Chun jin is
different from xingyi jin, etc. In a sense
all martial arts seek to cultivate refined
body mechanics over brute force, and
consequently employ different methods.

Fo

kickinthepants
07-30-2000, 09:58 PM
Lets hope Bruce had some Jing!
jing translates as essence, in the taoist tradition it is used as "vital essence" a large component of semen, and something that is lost in emission, ejaculation.
Lets hope Bruce had Jing or Brandon and Linda are the milkmans. LOL

fkchang
08-01-2000, 08:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kickinthepants:
Lets hope Bruce had some Jing!
jing translates as essence, in the taoist tradition it is used as "vital essence" a large component of semen, and something that is lost in emission, ejaculation.
Lets hope Bruce had Jing or Brandon and Linda are the milkmans. LOL[/quote]

jin as in fajin (fa chin in wade
giles) and jing as in jing qi shen (ching in wade giles) are two entirely different words
in chinese. That jin is frequently
misspelled jing furthers the confusion to
the two words. Jin is refined force,
jing is "essence."

Fo

Jaguar Wong
08-01-2000, 10:35 PM
kickinthepants:
I believe you mean Brandon and Shannon, cause I don't think Bruce married his daughter /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ghoyd
09-10-2000, 07:05 AM
I'm no expert, but some of the things I've learned to help me generate "short power" are proper structure, connection, bowing of the hips, the falling step, elbow power, the short arc principle, and the upward abduction of the wrist. Someone jump in if I am leaving something out, but you can see that it is much more than hip rotation (which IS also part).

It is an art in itself. :-)

------------------
Gary Hoyd
http://www.geocities.com/ghoyd/
MIDWESTERN JUN FAN FIGHTING ALLIANCE

ghoyd
09-10-2000, 07:17 AM
By the way, there is a clip of the 1 inch punch on my site. Look in the Multimedia section.
http://www.geocities.com/ghoyd/

------------------
Gary Hoyd
http://www.geocities.com/ghoyd/
MIDWESTERN JUN FAN FIGHTING ALLIANCE

origenx
09-10-2000, 10:59 PM
I've seen the Long Beach footage myself. I dunno, Bruce uses a lot of body movement and the power generated seems (at least primarily) mechanical.

Note: from what I read, Bruce used more a "push" in his demos both for safety and dramatic effect. Whereas in real life, it would be internally targeted to implode the organs - perhaps less visibly dramatic but extremely more traumatic.

Technically, a true internal 1" punch needs no body motion at all. Just bringing the fist to the opponent's body to make contact - like pushing a button on your TV is all.

HuangKaiVun
10-02-2000, 04:39 AM
Siu Lum Tao trains the basic economy of motion and positioning.

Chum Kiu trains the pivoting motion one needs to use his momentum.

Fencing teaches a person to focus his energy into the "short strike".

Tigerdragon
10-02-2000, 04:49 PM
When I trained in American Kenpo, I had the chance to talk to Ed Parker. Mr Parker spoke with Bruce Lee on many occasions while he was developing the american version of Kenpo. He told me that Bruce generated that power by the mechanics of muscle. This is one of the reasons American kenpo is based so heavily on the physics and mechanics of the body