Present Situation of Chinese Martial Arts

[shoebox]

Hello everybody,

Can anybody tell me the present situation of Chinese martial arts? I read from various sources that much of Chinese martial arts being taught today are for demonstration/health purposes but the combat root has been lost. Further, I heard that only a handful of masters exist that have the depth of knowledge in the traditional arts. Thanks for helping me understand the present state of Chinese martial arts.

[SanHeChuan]

Subscribe to the magazine.

[Yao Sing]

I have that depth of knowledge but you have to buy my bridge before I can teach it to you.

[WinterPalm]

Hello everybody,

Can anybody tell me the present situation of Chinese martial arts? I read from various sources that much of Chinese martial arts being taught today are for demonstration/health purposes but the combat root has been lost. Further, I heard that only a handful of masters exist that have the depth of knowledge in the traditional arts. Thanks for helping me understand the present state of Chinese martial arts.

You are correct on every account. Some of us are very, very fortunate to have found true masters of chinese kung fu.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I think there are far more of us than you think, and the numbers are growing every day.

[Laukarbo]

ans most of them u wont find on any discussion boards...:D

[cjurakpt]

Hello everybody,

Can anybody tell me the present situation of Chinese martial arts? I read from various sources that much of Chinese martial arts being taught today are for demonstration/health purposes but the combat root has been lost. Further, I heard that only a handful of masters exist that have the depth of knowledge in the traditional arts. Thanks for helping me understand the present state of Chinese martial arts.

these issues are really not of much interest to people on this board, as this is a forum for Traditional Chinese Martial Arts; however, when they are discussed (e.g. - tradition versus modern approach), the threads rapidly die out owing to the ovwhelming agreement of all participants' viewpoints; in the rare occurence of an actual debate, the typically polite nature of the exchanges and general unwillingness of forum members to make one another look bad by contradicting or disproving someone's beliefs, brings it to a rapid conclusion (e.g. - the idea of the possibility of the existence of a 500+ page thread debating the relative authenticity of a particular CMA-based style is not only implausable, it is downright laughable) ; so unfortunately, I think you will find very little indication of the current state of CMA based on the postings by people on this forum...

[Lucas]

these issues are really not of much interest to people on this board, as this is a forum for Traditional Chinese Martial Arts; however, when they are discussed (e.g. - tradition versus modern approach), the threads rapidly die out owing to the ovwhelming agreement of all participants' viewpoints; in the rare occurence of an actual debate, the typically polite nature of the exchanges and general unwillingness of forum members to make one another look bad by contradicting or disproving someone's beliefs, brings it to a rapid conclusion (e.g. - the idea of the possibility of the existence of a 500+ page thread debating the relative authenticity of a particular CMA-based style is not only implausable, it is downright laughable) ; so unfortunately, I think you will find very little indication of the current state of CMA based on the postings by people on this forum...

LOL

Truer words have never been spoken.

[mkriii]

I'm going to try to keep this thread going. I don't think that TCMA are dying out and I think that there are many knowledgable masters available, you just have to know where to find one. I can name off several off the top of my head. Grandmaster Tsai for one. He's in China right now but his son is running his school in Chicago. You have Master Rusty Gray in Nashville (Sil Lum), Master John Dufresne in Boston (Sil Lum & Ng Family style kung fu), and Master Nick Scrima in Tampa. You also have Dr. Yang Jwing Ming, Doc Fei Wong, Y.C. Wong (hung gar), Grandmaster Mai Yu Qiang & Zhong Luo (dragon style), and many more. I think that the reason some people think that TCMA are dying is because of the big deal people are making out of MMA. Thats all you here about and see on t.v. If you want to learn TCMA from a true master than you just have to look. Get on the internet and find one. There's true master out there to be found that teach legit kung fu.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Yes, I agree 1000%.

Now that we have the interweb, it is much easier to ask around and find them too.

[mkriii]

RD.....can you list any other kung fu teachers that are legit that a person can contact if he or she wanted to learn TCMA?

[GeneChing]

The focus of our magazine is Chinese martial arts, both traditional and modern. The focus of this forum...well, it's hard to stay focused on the web. We discuss all sorts of things. We have a subforum for MMA (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=10) and other related arts (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=16), so I would be hesitant to call us "a forum for Traditional Chinese Martial Arts". The bottom line is SanHeChuan is right - subscribe! (http://www.martialartsmart.net/19341.html)

[lkfmdc]

the "LKFMDC ground"

the gladiatorial arena of on line kung fu discussion!

moderated by unkokusai, who will keep anything from being misleadingly inaccurate

as an added bonus feature, when you post there you will appear as a randomly generated anonymous member, just to keep things interesting!

the "LKFMDC ground"

coming soon!

[Water Dragon]

Well, there is still good traditional CMA. Thing is, I'm the only person in the world that knows the real stuff. Everyone else is wrong, unless of course they learned from me directly.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

There are a lot of them, however all the best ones I know seem to want to just lay low.

I know the big Shui Jiao org is a good place to start, If you can find students of the retired Wai Lun Choi, they would be good sources as well. I also know pretty much any senior of John Tsai would be very skilled too.

If you are near Miami, look up Guss Rubio, in Australia look up Jamie Scuffell.


You can also look for other big names like Mike Patterson, and there are many more.

If you want a good teacher, best thing to do is go to the Kuo Shou, or San Shou meets and see who has fighters placing in the top 5.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Hello everybody,

Can anybody tell me the present situation of Chinese martial arts? I read from various sources that much of Chinese martial arts being taught today are for demonstration/health purposes but the combat root has been lost. Further, I heard that only a handful of masters exist that have the depth of knowledge in the traditional arts. Thanks for helping me understand the present state of Chinese martial arts.

The present situation is that CMA has existed for almost 5,000 years, used by billions of people during that time for military and personal self defense, and it has served all who can use it very well, and it will continue to exist for more 1,000s of years because it uses what the body does naturally, and it doing just fine.

The human race, that's not doing too good, and it never did.

[Yum Cha]

Here's what I see in the TCMA World, from my perspective and with 35 years playing Martial Arts. This is a generalisation, meant for discussion and entertainment, and not meant as a coverall, pure fact, condemnation/proposition conerning any and every TCMS student. FWIW

Chinese arts are difficult and not exceptionally accessible, either finding a teacher, or learning the physical side. To begin with, it is rare.

- Lots of teachers are only half trained and hang out their shingle (with their ego) with predictable poor quality results. These guys go one way or the other. Either they train crippled children with no fighting skills, but lots of "theory" and "internal skills" (not that they know it), or they train generic kickboxers who do some eclectic chinese forms of one kind or another to justify their "Kung Fu" label, and still win a few public torunements here and there to keep the commercial enterprise happening.

Here you find the temple dancers, the chi blasters and the sport fighting schools.

- Many qualified teachers have followed the Chinese Government lead and pursued the "Wu Shu" field of consolidated (blended), acrobatic, entertaining, de-martialised Chinese 'martial' arts. The level of international support for this is ever growing, and there is good administration.

Here you find the old school Chinese kung fu administrator types, laden with governement titles, recognitions and lots of generous character. Old people doing tai chi even?

- Few teachers actually have enough training to actually work their system. Fewer still because not all of the good ones are also good at teaching. Some of these guys are also interested in commercaial success, and thus market themselves. So, my conclusion is that of the good ones, only a few you will ever hear of - probably more will simply pass their skills on privately in small families, not commercially driven.

Here you find the most traditional arts by traditional name, usually organised into a pai of some sort, with some international organisation, perhaps even sundered by petty politics between branches.

Skills and qualities

Likewise, amongst the good fighters, artists, and teachers you will find two types:
- Wide band: lots of various styles, skills and abilities tied into one practice. Typically the individual has training across many styles, arts and skills, and they offer a wide syllibus.

- Narrow band: Students with most if not all study in one art. Typically carriers of lineage, going back through the styles generations. Pedagree.

I don't know that either has an advantage over the other, but be aware of lining up what it is you want in the end. The pluses and minuses for either choice is fodder for another discussion.

Commercial vs Non-commercial

Commercial considerations MUST impact the way a commercial school operates. Compromises include putting up with demanding students who want their belts on a timeline, regardless of their training, and continued attempts to keep marginal students paying tuition. Also, the art must become a product, and all the marketing involved can taint the skills.

Non-commercial schools don't have to make the same considerations, but they likewise have to deal without the resources, i.e studio, equipment, etc. The up-side is that when you remove the commercial element, you are left with just skills and people, and they way the settle out is hardly subtle.

So, in a nutshell, thats my take on the present situation of Chinese Martial Arts.

[MightyB]

The term TCMA is a misnomer in that we always try to categorize things. Something's internal, or external, or northern, or whatever. Or we say- this style is Tiger, or Mantis, or... Martial Arts evolve- why else are there eight gazillion forms in the core bodies of most TCMA when we know that in the old days a person travelled miles to find a master to train them in one specific form?

In reality- you have a syllabus of forms- you have a theoretical approach- and you train. Fighting can be broken down into four key attributes- Shuai, Na, Ti, and Da- That's about it. You can specialize in forms, or you specialize in fighting- or you can try both. If you're a forms man- there's nothing wrong with modernized wu shu- I mean you're basically trying to show off- so I says show off big and wow the audience if you're physically able. If you're a fighter fight. Plain and simple. I can say that it's easier to train a San Shou guy or a Wu Shu guy a traditional form than it is to train a traditionalist to do san shou or wu shu.