What's with Bruce Lee worship in the TCMA community?

[The Xia]

This is something that the more I think about, the more contradictory it sounds. Sure, his movies got legions of people into Kung Fu. Sure, he became a symbol of strength for his ethnicity and transcended that for anyone else looking for it. However, this seems to overshadow what the man said and did in the minds of many TCMA people. Yes, Bruce Lee began his path in Wing Chun, but look at where he ended up. Outside his school, he had a tombstone that read, "in memory of a once fluid man crammed and distorted by the classical mess." I’m not going to post a lot of stuff about where his path took him, but when I hear him speak (and look at how he trained), he seems rabidly against TCMA (or TMA in general) to me. Before I quote Bullshido, let me say that I don’t agree with the analysis on Wing Chun, but there’s a quote about Wing Chun people who hold Bruce Lee on a pedestal that I feel is relevant to this thread. "It'd be like being a fan of Jared from Subway and then taking up competitive eating or liking the comedy of Yakov Smirnov so much you moved to the Soviet Union." I think this can apply to TCMA people in general. Am I the only one who feels this way about Bruce?

[bawang]

I don't like bruce lee, and i never liked his high pitched scream, he inspired the wrong kind people to be interested in kung fu.

[rogue]

Without Bruce Lee CMA would have died decades ago. He arrived when CMA was all about some lousy movies and Bruce gave the CMA credibility.

BTW, WC is the bomb!!!


The Real Original Lucky Louie!

[Lucas]

I in no way worship the guy. But here is my take:


After a fashion Bruce Lee displays the qualities desired of a fighter in his image that was created through his movies and the media.

It isnt so much the training he has, so much was the fact that he was 1, Chinese (this because the culture draws attention and is often associated)trained in kungfu. regardless of style. and 2, because the martial aspects of his life, and what he left behind after he died, display the keen mind at work of someont desperately working on the puzzle of combat.

Which is the essence of TCMA (keen mind at work of someont desperately working on the puzzle of combat)

[yutyeesam]

As an icon, he gets evaluated based more on his personal background than the philosophical concept he was trying to drive into people's heads (that apparently still doesn't get through some TCMA's heads).

His personal background is that he had his foundations in the Chinese arts. So naturally, TCMA people tend to want to zero in on that.

His philosophical concept was to lose ethnocenticism in martial arts and use whatever works for you from whatever style. Obviously, this doesn't jive so well with the TCMA folks...so it conveniently gets brushed aside, ignoring that he essentially called TCMA a Classical Mess.

-123

[Yao Sing]

Plus he smoked pot and banged hot actresses. Got to have priorities in life.

[HOKPAIWES]

The whole Bruce Lee scene kinda reminds me of a religon that annoys me.


A guy gets on to some good stuff, then he dies. Then his fans and followers never having completed their training come along later and screw it all up for the rest of us.

[SaintSage]

The whole Bruce Lee scene kinda reminds me of a religon that annoys me.


A guy gets on to some good stuff, then he dies. Then his fans and followers never having completed their training come along later and screw it all up for the rest of us.

Yeah. It's a good thing, however, that unlike Bruce Lee the other guy came back to finish what he started. :D;)

[lkfmdc]

people's response to Bruce is generally irrational.... he's been elevated to a ridiculous level that makes any discussion of him really impossible, if you question the "Church of Bruce" you get mass hysteria and flame wars

[yutyeesam]

people's response to Bruce is generally irrational.... he's been elevated to a ridiculous level that makes any discussion of him really impossible, if you question the "Church of Bruce" you get mass hysteria and flame wars

Even today? I don't know what the current perception is of him...

[lkfmdc]

Even today? I don't know what the current perception is of him...
ah, you must have missed that thread :p

[yutyeesam]

ah, you must have missed that thread :p

Uh oh - this sounds like a car wreck...I gotta look! :D

[rogue]

people's response to Bruce is generally irrational.... he's been elevated to a ridiculous level that makes any discussion of him really impossible, if you question the "Church of Bruce" you get mass hysteria and flame wars

Say what? I doubt any of us would be doing martial arts without Bruce. The Green Hornet, Marlowe and Longstreet put the bug in our ears all the way back in the 60's. I don't think enough good things could be said about Bruce.



The Real Original Lucky Louie!

[Dragonzbane76]

Believe me if Bruce hadn't of done it someone would have came along eventually and done it. World became to small for things to hide. I wouldn't elevate him on a platform that high. He did what eventually would have been done.

[Know Stile]

Bruce has done more for martial arts than everyone on this forum combined.

[rogue]

Bruce has done more for martial arts than everyone on this forum combined.

Well I wouldn't go that far. After all it was Gene who introduced us all the Iron Crotch, The Got Gi Girls and Ninjettes. So we could make the argument that Gene has done more for the martial arts than anybody here.

[Dragonzbane76]

Bruce has done more for martial arts than everyone on this forum combined.


Keep telling yourself that.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Who is the Bruce Lee of which you speak off?
Some ancient MA of a long dead era ??

[Mano Mano]

Who is the Bruce Lee of which you speak off?
Some ancient MA of a long dead era ??
I think you’re getting him confused with someone called Elvis who did a bit of karrody.

[The Xia]

ignoring that he essentially called TCMA a Classical Mess.
Ding Ding Ding! :D
And the fact that some (ok, more then some) Wing Chun folks look up to him just drips of irony in my eyes.

[g-bells]

nobody can argue that he did more for MA than just about anyone, is it his fault that there are nuthuggers who live in die with his every word,phrase, move ? no,

but he did inspire people to take up MA and to pursue your own path

all this S@@t that your MA is better than mine is old, if you want to see, challenge a fighter of a different art and see where you stand and in doing that you will be learning and experiencing techniques outside your art which can only benefit you

i appologise for the rant

[Lucas]

One of the cool things you will notice about what Bruce Lee did for martial arts:


On many occasions, while reading this great Kungfu Mag we all love, you will have the privilage of reading the beggining stories of some of our current day Sifu's.

MANY times these guys will tell you about how the movies, and posters they had of bruce lee were a very inspirational part of why they were so interested in kungfu.

Now to be any form of role model, regardless of the source that delivers it, and get people involved in a lifestyle that greatly betters them, as well as eventually trickled down to their students once they begin to teach, well there IS a lot to be said for that.

Despite the mans many draw backs, the sheer amount of inspirtation the man gave to many of todays martial artists deserves recognition alone.

Not too many people have been able to have a direct effect on inspiring martial artists, WITHOUT EVER MEETING HIM.

How many of US can say that?

Maybe he was super raw, maybe he sucked, maybe no one really cares. BUT, he did have a very positive influence on the martial artists of his time, as well as people just beginning their journey.

I dont idolize the guy, but at the same time I was one of those people that was inspired early on in my life by his movies, which had a direct effect on my outlook towards beginning my martial arts studies. Not the only factor of course, but myself along with many of my seniors in the martial arts community, it certainly WAS a factor of positive change in the early stages of my martial arts career.

We can all only hope to achieve such a positive sphere of influence within our own communities.

[mickey]

Greetins,

did you guys know that Bruce Lee was voted one of the 100 sexiest people in Playboy magazine shortly after he died. I get the feeling there is performance footage of him in the Hefner film archives. Hefner had cameras everywhere in his mansion, including the rooms.


mickey

[jo]

Most folks are totally fascinated with the finger.

They miss all the "Heavenly Glory" its pointing to.

- jo

[Lucas]

yawwwwnnnnnn

[The Xia]

I agree that you can credit Bruce Lee for inspiring people to take up martial arts. OTOH, if you are talking about following his message, I can see a problem that can arise. That being going around from style to style, taking what you want, but never really gaining a proper foundation. OTOOH, I have to wonder how many of the people that Bruce inspired really follow his message more then the raw emotion of his onscreen image. OTOOOH, there seems to be lots of people out there desperately trying to mimick the way he fought onscreen (instead of using whatever they train).

[WinterPalm]

One of the cool things you will notice about what Bruce Lee did for martial arts:


On many occasions, while reading this great Kungfu Mag we all love, you will have the privilage of reading the beggining stories of some of our current day Sifu's.

MANY times these guys will tell you about how the movies, and posters they had of bruce lee were a very inspirational part of why they were so interested in kungfu.

Now to be any form of role model, regardless of the source that delivers it, and get people involved in a lifestyle that greatly betters them, as well as eventually trickled down to their students once they begin to teach, well there IS a lot to be said for that.

Despite the mans many draw backs, the sheer amount of inspirtation the man gave to many of todays martial artists deserves recognition alone.

Not too many people have been able to have a direct effect on inspiring martial artists, WITHOUT EVER MEETING HIM.

How many of US can say that?

Maybe he was super raw, maybe he sucked, maybe no one really cares. BUT, he did have a very positive influence on the martial artists of his time, as well as people just beginning their journey.

I dont idolize the guy, but at the same time I was one of those people that was inspired early on in my life by his movies, which had a direct effect on my outlook towards beginning my martial arts studies. Not the only factor of course, but myself along with many of my seniors in the martial arts community, it certainly WAS a factor of positive change in the early stages of my martial arts career.

We can all only hope to achieve such a positive sphere of influence within our own communities.

Awesome post!

Put any person on a pedastal and you'll find cracks. So what? It's what he did that far outshadows his drawbacks as a human being.

[The Xia]

When speaking on Bruce, and his popularity still going strong, consider the national pride, he contributed to his people, "we are not sick men", that had profound meaning with the chinese. Also the fact when he was alive the state of nations during that time.
I understand and appreciate that. However, an onscreen image does not always represent the man behind it.


There no contraversy concerning his skill, and his dedication to health, fitness and martial arts.
Well there is certainly lots of debate about it lol. However, I don't think anyone questions his dedication. It's his training practices that are brought up for discussion.

But the one thing I took from him the most is if you are learning something and it feels good to you, keep it, if not there is so much to explore, don't be caught up in tunnel vision.
Although I don't think that's what Bruce was getting at.