The KFM fitness challange.... ideas

[bodhitree]

Inspired by some other forums and some contests some people have mentioned in their gyms and so forth this should be a good idea.

What should we test?

I'm thinking

# of push ups per minute
# of pull ups in a minute
# of bodyweight squats in a minute
speed it takes to run 1 mile (on a track, no treadmills) or 1/4 of a mile
# of sit ups


Of course this would have to be on the honor system or videotaped (I don't own video technology, however my #'s will be so weak I will not have anyone in disbelief!).

Can anybody think of any ways this should be modified?

Sevenstar- being you're a genetically modified hulk you should spare us;) kidding, kidding.



Thoughts, thanks!

[bodhitree]

oh, this is just the planning stage. no need to post numbers yet.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Video is a must.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Inspired by some other forums and some contests some people have mentioned in their gyms and so forth this should be a good idea.

What should we test?

I'm thinking

# of push ups per minute
# of pull ups in a minute
# of bodyweight squats in a minute
speed it takes to run 1 mile (on a track, no treadmills) or 1/4 of a mile
# of sit ups


Of course this would have to be on the honor system or videotaped (I don't own video technology, however my #'s will be so weak I will not have anyone in disbelief!).

Can anybody think of any ways this should be modified?

Sevenstar- being you're a genetically modified hulk you should spare us;) kidding, kidding.



Thoughts, thanks!

You need to make clear how the exercise are performed.

[bodhitree]

or maybe anyone planning to do this can post

age


weight



martial arts style



primary fitness goals (maximum strength, speed, endurance, all around)



how do you typically train? (weights, bodyweight conditioning, running, forms, circut, martial arts drilling)

[bodhitree]

puch ups: almost/ or chest to ground, no knees for support, no girl ups

pull ups: no 'jump ups', must go all the way down between reps, must get head above bar, grip of choice


sit ups: hands crossed in front of chest all the way up, something to stabilize feet

run: ??????


squat: ATG, arm position of choice, stance width of choice


During any part of the minute one could rest, then resume the exercise.


any other ideas for how the exercises are to be performed



I don't have a videocamera? What do I do? Ref?

[sanjuro_ronin]

puch ups: almost/ or chest to ground, no knees for support, no girl ups

pull ups: no 'jump ups', must go all the way down between reps, must get head above bar, grip of choice


sit ups: hands crossed in front of chest all the way up, something to stabilize feet

run: ??????


squat: ATG, arm position of choice, stance width of choice


During any part of the minute one could rest, then resume the exercise.


any other ideas for how the exercises are to be performed



I don't have a videocamera? What do I do? Ref?

Push up are elbows in or out?
Pull ups must be one grip for all, must be standardized.
Squats ATG ( Ass to the ground) are not possible by all, box squats would be better I think ( or some sort of obstacle that must be made contact with)
NO PAUSING during the 60 second period, WIMPS NOT ALLOWED !!
:D
Most digital cameras have video capacity and they are avi's I think that youtube up load would be the way to go.

[bodhitree]

standard boxes for the box squat????






Okay, for the pull ups, chins, over grip on a straight bar


push ups elbows in



oh and how could i forget


# of burpees in one minute

[sanjuro_ronin]

standard boxes for the box squat????






Okay, for the pull ups, chins, over grip on a straight bar


push ups elbows in



oh and how could i forget


# of burpees in one minute

Burpees?
Before or after a 6 pack od beer ?
:D

[bodhitree]

Burpees?
Before or after a 6 pack od beer ?
:D


after a ton of hot and sour soup from chinese buffett!

[sanjuro_ronin]

standard boxes for the box squat????

I am going on memory here but I recall that if you put a solid obstacle at the height of the middle of your lower leg ( between your knee and ankle) that, if you squat down your thighs will break parallel and that should be just fine for all.

[bodhitree]

I am going on memory here but I recall that if you put a solid obstacle at the height of the middle of your lower leg ( between your knee and ankle) that, if you squat down your thighs will break parallel and that should be just fine for all.


now i have to get used to fast 'butt bouncin' off the box

[sanjuro_ronin]

now i have to get used to fast 'butt bouncin'

I know a girl that told me the same thing not to long ago...:D

[bodhitree]

edit Edit Edit Edit Edit

[sanjuro_ronin]

I would suggest also "dead hangs" for pull ups, make them les about momentum and more about strength and muscular endurance.

[bodhitree]

should we include long jump? Vertical jump? I don't have anything to measure the vertical.

[sanjuro_ronin]

should we include long jump? Vertical jump? I don't have anything to measure the vertical.

Hmmm....those things are "height specific" in many ways, not sure about them.
Wanna add Strength too?
Squats, deadlifts, bench press or things like that?

[bodhitree]

Hmmm....those things are "height specific" in many ways, not sure about them.
Wanna add Strength too?
Squats, deadlifts, bench press or things like that?


I figured we already have the personal record thread, plus that data is available from those of us who keep training logs, but lets see what others (maybe only you) think. ha ha, where are the armchair warriors?

[bodhitree]

Idea....

post it on main board

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Iron Chair.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Iron Chair.

Steel stool?

[bodhitree]

I think he means holding a horse stance.

[Mr Punch]

What's wrong with ATG squats?

I'm not doing 'all the way up sit-ups' because they're bad for you, and I never do them. 30 degs is enough for the abs, and there are other exercises for hip flexors etc.

Non-equipment exercises will be accessible for all of us... even pull-ups will be tricky for some!

[Mr Punch]

Push up are elbows in or out?Mine only bend one way.


NO PAUSING during the 60 second period, WIMPS NOT ALLOWED !!
:DDisagree. It's a kung fu board, wimps are compulsory.

Seriously disagree: it's fitness right? So it doesn't matter about your timing. If you can rattle off 50 push-ups in one go in double-quick time, then you wanna rest before you do the rest I think that's fine. More like HIITs anyway, which is more overall fitness and less plain endurance, right?


Most digital cameras have video capacity and they are avi's I think that youtube up load would be the way to go.I'm not videoing anything.

[Mr Punch]

I think he means holding a horse stance.Which is nothing to do with fitness = OUT!

[Mr Punch]

I would suggest also "dead hangs" Whassaaaat then?

[bodhitree]

Which is nothing to do with fitness = OUT!

I couldn't agree more


Whassaaaat then?

I also have no idea

[SouthernTiger]

Out of curiousity, how do you figure that a horse stance has nothing to do with fitness?

I think the problem with having the horse stance in this challenge is that it would be diffiicult to standardize it as many stylists stick butts out, point feet way out, etc.

What about hindu squats or one leg pistol squats? Any takers? :D

-Blake

[bodhitree]

welcome to the forum. I think hindu squats would be included under squat! Good idea for the pistols, ha ha, I'm only good on one side!

[Takuan]

Hmmm....those things are "height specific" in many ways, not sure about them.
Wanna add Strength too?
Squats, deadlifts, bench press or things like that?

Eff long jump, vertical isn't height specific though. I'd go for squats, deads, bench etc.

We could even say instead of your 1RM for each, a set of 6,8,10 or something, if you want to include Endurance that is.

[SevenStar]

interesting. count me in. I am surprisedthat nobody mentioned number of dips in a minute...

[stricker]

couple of ideas...

to keep it fair re height weight etc it could be mainly bodyweight exercises (pushups, pullups, dips, crunches etc)

or could do %bw for lifts etc

or... how about we do 'most improvement over a month'... post a challenge, test it now, then test it again in one months time, winner is the most % improvement

also, could do stuff like flexibility, who can do the splits, get their knees to the floor on butterfly stretch etc. again, could do best improvement rather than absolute

[SevenStar]

couple of ideas...

to keep it fair re height weight etc it could be mainly bodyweight exercises (pushups, pullups, dips, crunches etc)

or could do %bw for lifts etc

or... how about we do 'most improvement over a month'... post a challenge, test it now, then test it again in one months time, winner is the most % improvement

also, could do stuff like flexibility, who can do the splits, get their knees to the floor on butterfly stretch etc. again, could do best improvement rather than absolute

the contest I am in at work has a flexibility test. also, the challenges are repeated every 6 weeks and you get bonus points based on % of improvement.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Whassaaaat then?

Dead hang chins are when you stop at the bottom, "dead hang" for a second and then lift up, it keeps momemtum out of the equation and makes sure you do a ful range chin up

[viper]

I am so in for all of it and we have to post a vid? Are we able to just post one excercise at a time?

[bodhitree]

So can we agree on a set of exercises yet?

I'm thinking:

Pushups
Pull ups
Dips
bodyweight squats
a 1/4 or 1 mile run
(if equipment for said exercise is not available, you may omit that particular exercise)


plus one unique fitness feat


I think we should post our numbers (or a vid) and then one month from that day, see how much we improve. Does that sound good?


I'm thinking no lifts, as we already have the PR thread.

[Mr Punch]

So can we agree on a set of exercises yet?

I'm thinking:

Pushups
Pull ups
Dips
bodyweight squats
a 1/4 or 1 mile run
(if equipment for said exercise is not available, you may omit that particular exercise) Pushups
pull ups
squats and squat jumps (not enough leg work)
lunges and jumping lunges (ditto)
bootstrappers (ditto and lower back)
30 degree crunches
sprawl drills/burpees/both in interval ( :eek: )
a certain distance in interval sprints (not into long run - can't be arsed!)
Not into dips - don't think my rotator cuffs can take it. And the equipment's a prob. Be nice to minimize equipment altogether - so a place to do pull-ups only should be OK.


plus one unique fitness featYou talking pulling trucks with your tackle, or explosive bridging ninjettes or what?

I'm thinking no lifts, as we already have the PR thread.Agreed.

[bodhitree]

Pushups
pull ups
squats and squat jumps (not enough leg work)
lunges and jumping lunges (ditto)
bootstrappers (ditto and lower back)
30 degree crunches
sprawl drills/burpees/both in interval ( :eek: )
a certain distance in interval sprints (not into long run - can't be arsed!)
Not into dips - don't think my rotator cuffs can take it. And the equipment's a prob. Be nice to minimize equipment altogether - so a place to do pull-ups only should be OK.

You talking pulling trucks with your tackle, or explosive bridging ninjettes or what?
Agreed.



I'll agree with most of that list, but I'm not sure what bootstrappers are? Are they when your crouched down with your hands on toes then extend your legs. Oh, and I think burpees would be enough, sprawls would be too much.


My revised list

1 min x
push ups
pull ups
dips
burpees
squats
bootstrappers
crunches/situps

1 or 1/4 mile run (I'd rather do 1/4 mile) what do you guys think?


possible:
long jump
standing still vertical jump

[bodhitree]

special feat= one unique thing you'd like to add (optional) say if you can do handstand push ups or one armed pull ups or some other freak of nature stuff. Should we do the whole test in one day?

[SevenStar]

I wouldn't do it in one day - I would do it in weeks. For example,

week 1. pushups
week 2. squats
week 3. pullups

etc.

[BruceSteveRoy]

i think you should also do a category for weight loss. i am sure there are a few ppl on here like my self that could stand to lose a few and a contest is a great way to promote that and that is also a component of fitness. just a thought.

edit: i guess the fair way to do that would be to do percentage of weight not actual pounds/ kilos since there are some with less to lose.

[Scott Meneely]

i think you should also do a category for weight loss. i am sure there are a few ppl on here like my self that could stand to lose a few and a contest is a great way to promote that and that is also a component of fitness. just a thought.

edit: i guess the fair way to do that would be to do percentage of weight not actual pounds/ kilos since there are some with less to lose.


but i'm trying to pack on the pounds:D

[Mr Punch]

I'll agree with most of that list, but I'm not sure what bootstrappers are? Are they when your crouched down with your hands on toes then extend your legs. Pretty close. There's a really good def on trainforstrength.

Oh, and I think burpees would be enough, sprawls would be too much. OK, but we should do the burpees with a push-up and jump at the end.

I'M still not down for any kind of distance running. I think sprints are a much better measure of fitness... plus there's no way I can measure - this is a km country! :D


possible:
long jump
standing still vertical jumpAs a previous long jump champion and someone who can't vertical jump over a foot or so, this sounds like a measure of a natural attribute rather than a fitness determiner. I'm against them.


I wouldn't do it in one day - I would do it in weeks. I was thinking all of them as intervals in one day... but Seven's idea makes a lot more sense! :D


i think you should also do a category for weight loss. i am sure there are a few ppl on here like my self that could stand to lose a few and a contest is a great way to promote that and that is also a component of fitness.Dunno, I think that could do with another thread, another challenge, since again, it's not only fitness but genetic predisposition, diet, etc.

I'm up for the dead hang pull-ups btw; that's all I ever do.
I'm still not up for dips.
How about bear crawls - we don't have any 'horizontal' exercises?

[Mr Punch]

Out of curiousity, how do you figure that a horse stance has nothing to do with fitness?I notice nobody dealt with this.

Welcome to the board. :)

Standing still in one place is nothing to do with fitness. Endurance maybe, but pure fitness? I tell you what - how do you figure that it has something to do with fitness?

Plus, it isn't even a component of many many people's MA, so what length of time would be a fair determiner of fitness for someone who's never done one in their life, let alone your stylistic differences?

[viper]

I think we should just decide on wat we want seems we are a lil in danger of having to many diff types of a similar exercise. So is it sprints if so what type or a 1.6 k run (mile)

[Drake]

The Army does a 3-even PT test. Pushups, situps, and a 2-mile run. Pushups and the run vary in scores between males and females, and all three vary by age group. I can link you guys to this table if interested. There are also hard and fast rules about the test as well, such as how pushups/situps are done, etc.

[bodhitree]

Next Week:


Push Ups!


We all know them, and we can get started. We can post results throughout the week. I picked push ups for a few reasons 1 we all know them, 2 no need to find access to any equipment, and 3 (selfish reason) will probably be my worst one. I personally don't have access to a video camera (but my #'s will probably be weak anyway).


I think we all need to do some standard questions:


First Name (or nickname):


Age:



Height:



Weight:



# of push ups in one minute:

[SouthernTiger]

I notice nobody dealt with this.

Welcome to the board. :)

Standing still in one place is nothing to do with fitness. Endurance maybe, but pure fitness? I tell you what - how do you figure that it has something to do with fitness?

Plus, it isn't even a component of many many people's MA, so what length of time would be a fair determiner of fitness for someone who's never done one in their life, let alone your stylistic differences?

Mr. Punch,

First off, Thanks for the kind welcome. I have been lurking for quite awhile and just recently decided to sign up and put in my two cents on various topics.

Secondly, I think our difference in opinion on horse stance may come from our lack of definition on the word "fitness". Dictionary.com defines fitness as"capability of the body of distributing inhaled oxygen to muscle tissue during increased physical effort." Obviously standing in a horse stance requires your body to utilize more oxygen to stabilize your body against gravity. Depending on depth of the stance, I think this is an excellent test for fitness as it does test endurance of the thigh muscles.

Thirdly, I am confused that you say that the horse stance is not a part of "many, many people's ma"? Is this not a chinese martial arts forum? The horse is THE foundation of nearly all chinese martial arts. In essence the horse stance is merely a crouched ready position which can be applied to almost all MA of the planet. (The exception may be Dog Boxing....what the hell is up with dog boxing???)

As to the time factor...it is a competition right? So really we are just (friendly) competing against one another therefore the question "so what length of time would be a fair determiner of fitness for someone who's never done one in their life" is fairly irrelevent. The "grading", if you will, is on a curve, not measured against a "standard"

Thanks for great discussion!

-Blake

[WinterPalm]

Timed horse stance is a good indication of dedication to holding a horse stance and of one's fitness in that direction.

You could replace Timed horse stance with situps and pushups, etc, and the outcome would be the same as I stated above.

A good horse is crucial to many systems of kung fu, if not all or nearly all...but I will not get into a competition. Unless Sifu suggests otherwise, I won't go beyond five minutes for want of other things to do...priorities!

On the other hand it would definately scare off the non-tcma crowd!:eek:

[Mr Punch]

Mr. Punch,

First off, Thanks for the kind welcome. I have been lurking for quite awhile and just recently decided to sign up and put in my two cents on various topics.Cool.


Secondly, I think our difference in opinion on horse stance may come from our lack of definition on the word "fitness". Dictionary.com defines fitness as"capability of the body of distributing inhaled oxygen to muscle tissue during increased physical effort." Obviously standing in a horse stance requires your body to utilize more oxygen to stabilize your body against gravity. Depending on depth of the stance, I think this is an excellent test for fitness as it does test endurance of the thigh muscles.Oddly, I was using the very same def. You may utilize more oxygen by horse, but you're not necessarily signifcantly affecting its distribution to your muscles, unless my understanding of anaerobic exercise and biology is lacking (a distinct possibility).

The bolded part is a non-sequitur. You say it's a great test for fitness because it's a test for endurance. Check Dictionary.com again: endurance and fitness are different.

Plus, for people who practice this horse, unless they are doing a personal best each time, they're not actually going to be going to be utilizing a great deal more extra oxygen than if they were just standing up.


Thirdly, I am confused that you say that the horse stance is not a part of "many, many people's ma"? Is this not a chinese martial arts forum? The horse is THE foundation of nearly all chinese martial arts. In essence the horse stance is merely a crouched ready position which can be applied to almost all MA of the planet. (The exception may be Dog Boxing....what the hell is up with dog boxing???)1) There are lots of people here who don't even do CMA. It's part of the flavour of the forum, and one reason why many people actually like it and come here so often.

2) I've done wing chun, tai chi and dabbled in a Hsing yi based eclectic art and been shown the basics of I-chuan (well, taikiken which may not qualify as CMA as it has its own slant). The wing chun has a totally different horse. The tai chi didn't emphasize the horse, and certainly not for any length of time. The Hsing yi didn't use it. The I-chuan had a horse but not the classic one you are talking about. Strangely enough, the only arts I've done that have concentrated on it were aikido and karate: neither of course Chinese!

3) In essence the horse and a crouch are very different, functionally, physically and theoretically.


As to the time factor...it is a competition right? So really we are just (friendly) competing against one another therefore the question "so what length of time would be a fair determiner of fitness for someone who's never done one in their life" is fairly irrelevent. The "grading", if you will, is on a curve, not measured against a "standard"Fair enough. My understanding of the purpose of this challenge is different to yours. I didn't realize it was supposed to be some competition: a challenge to yourself, not to others. I thought it was more of a fitness standard for the forum: some base level we can all try for / aspire to / maintain. If it's a competition, **** that! Seven, GDA, Vash, Ironfist, Samurai Jack and Toby are the winners! Everyone knows that! :D

[Mr Punch]

Timed horse stance is a good indication of dedication to holding a horse stance and of one's fitness in that direction.

You could replace Timed horse stance with situps and pushups, etc, and the outcome would be the same as I stated above.Good point.


I will not get into a competition. Unless Sifu suggests otherwise, I won't go beyond five minutes for want of other things to do...priorities!Another good point.


On the other hand it would definately scare off the non-tcma crowd!:eek:Why do that? Apart from the fact that it's wrong: as I said, I've done most horse in aiki based arts and karate.

[bodhitree]

I guess it would be okay if anyone wants to do their pushups this week or over the weekend can do so, but I think we should finish push up week Sunday 11/1. I'll probably do mine on Monday (after lifting, ha ha)

[sanjuro_ronin]

I guess it would be okay if anyone wants to do their pushups this week or over the weekend can do so, but I think we should finish push up week Sunday 11/1. I'll probably do mine on Monday (after lifting, ha ha)

I forget, knuckle push-ups or palms push-ups?

[bodhitree]

I forget, knuckle push-ups or palms push-ups?


whatever floats your little boat.

buoyancy floats mine.

[SouthernTiger]

Cool.

Oddly, I was using the very same def. You may utilize more oxygen by horse, but you're not necessarily signifcantly affecting its distribution to your muscles, unless my understanding of anaerobic exercise and biology is lacking (a distinct possibility).

The bolded part is a non-sequitur. You say it's a great test for fitness because it's a test for endurance. Check Dictionary.com again: endurance and fitness are different.

Plus, for people who practice this horse, unless they are doing a personal best each time, they're not actually going to be going to be utilizing a great deal more extra oxygen than if they were just standing up.

1) There are lots of people here who don't even do CMA. It's part of the flavour of the forum, and one reason why many people actually like it and come here so often.

2) I've done wing chun, tai chi and dabbled in a Hsing yi based eclectic art and been shown the basics of I-chuan (well, taikiken which may not qualify as CMA as it has its own slant). The wing chun has a totally different horse. The tai chi didn't emphasize the horse, and certainly not for any length of time. The Hsing yi didn't use it. The I-chuan had a horse but not the classic one you are talking about. Strangely enough, the only arts I've done that have concentrated on it were aikido and karate: neither of course Chinese!

3) In essence the horse and a crouch are very different, functionally, physically and theoretically.

Fair enough. My understanding of the purpose of this challenge is different to yours. I didn't realize it was supposed to be some competition: a challenge to yourself, not to others. I thought it was more of a fitness standard for the forum: some base level we can all try for / aspire to / maintain. If it's a competition, **** that! Seven, GDA, Vash, Ironfist, Samurai Jack and Toby are the winners! Everyone knows that! :D

Hello again Mr. Punch! Great discussion!

I cant figure out how to use the multiquote yet so bare with me please.

For the record, I am discussing the horse stance as a viable test to include in the fitness challenge merely on principle, as I really dont care and prob will not participate either way. Now with that said let me further clarify my position:

My contention is that endurance (in this case static muscular endurance) IS a part of fitness and that the horse stance tests this quite well. I think I should have found a better definition of fitness as dictionary.com's is rather broad. Perhaps I am reading into the definition incorrectly, but it seems to exclude any anaerobic exercise as anaerobic exercise does not require oxygen to supply energy to the muscles. So that was my bad.

As far as one "needing to achieve a personal best" everytime for the horse to be of benefit, I believe this is incorrect. One only need change the stimulus to achieve the training effect. Changing height, feet width, adding extra weight, etc. will all elicit training adaptations.

Also, remember that a horse stance need not be low and wide to be a horse stance. Any posture that is evenly weighted and feet roughly parallel to each other is a horse stance. Therefore I stand by my statment that nearly all MA have the horse stance, including wing chun, tai chi, and i-chuan, although I would conceed that I do not believe Hsing-i has a horse stance...

As to the challenge or competition part of it. What would be the purpose of creating a thread and discussing standardizing a fitness test if it were not to create an atmosphere of freindly competition? I agree that ultimately one should "challenge" oneself but I see the purpose of this thread as motivating its members via (friendly) competition.

Thanks!

-Blake

[Mr Punch]

Hello again Mr. Punch! Great discussion!Ta.


For the record, I am discussing the horse stance as a viable test to include in the fitness challenge merely on principle, as I really dont care and prob will not participate either way. Fair enough. I don't have time to train regularly in anything right now, so I may well not be doing it either.


My contention is that endurance (in this case static muscular endurance) IS a part of fitness and that the horse stance tests this quite well.I think repeated exercise like running is endurance and part of fitness... but static endurance isn't.
I think I should have found a better definition of fitness as dictionary.com's is rather broad. Perhaps I am reading into the definition incorrectly, but it seems to exclude any anaerobic exercise as anaerobic exercise does not require oxygen to supply energy to the muscles. So that was my bad.Go ahead - I look forward to you finding a definition of fitness that includes static endurance like horse. Then we can see who agrees with it!


As far as one "needing to achieve a personal best" everytime for the horse to be of benefit, I believe this is incorrect. One only need change the stimulus to achieve the training effect. Changing height, feet width, adding extra weight, etc. will all elicit training adaptations.That seems reasonable, but again gives rise to the question as to what's reasonable for it in a fitness standard.


Also, remember that a horse stance need not be low and wide to be a horse stance. Any posture that is evenly weighted and feet roughly parallel to each other is a horse stance. Therefore I stand by my statment that nearly all MA have the horse stance, including wing chun, tai chi, and i-chuan, although I would conceed that I do not believe Hsing-i has a horse stance...That seems particularly like back-pedalling however! It's either a horse stance or it isn't! For a start, you said it was primarily a CMA stance, and I gave examples from JMA. For another thing wing chun's stance cannot be equated with horse stance. The legs are turned in and the dynamics when used in motion are completely different (although incidentally, from my old-school JMA practice the horse is an isokinetic stance not an isometric, and since the wing chun stance is used actively that means it could compare more closely than most standard CMA horses to the JMA one). As I said, while I concede Tai Chi has a horse it's not trained in any timescale that's comparable to the test you're suggesting IME, and although I-Chuan's is, that's so high as to give most, say, Hung Gar practitioners the screaming heebie-jeebies if you suggested that that was a horse at all.

As to the challenge or competition part of it. What would be the purpose of creating a thread and discussing standardizing a fitness test if it were not to create an atmosphere of freindly competition?Er... as I suggested: to motivate, challenge and improve yourself.
I agree that ultimately one should "challenge" oneself but I see the purpose of this thread as motivating its members via (friendly) competition.Fair enough. My understanding of the purpose of this challenge is different to yours. Didn't I say that before?! :D You Americans would compete for your Moms! :p

[Mr Punch]

This thread seems to have died off... I'm gonna go for some of these exercises over this week and post some results.

Might I suggest that we hold off posting until we've got the results on all (most?/some?) of the exercises? Otherwise it's going to become one huge convoluted mass blog tangle of a thread!

[Mr Punch]

The Army does a 3-even PT test. Pushups, situps, and a 2-mile run. Pushups and the run vary in scores between males and females, and all three vary by age group. I can link you guys to this table if interested. There are also hard and fast rules about the test as well, such as how pushups/situps are done, etc.Yes, link please! :)

[Drake]

Yes, link please! :)


Ok, this links to a PDF of the APFT scoring tables. http://web.mit.edu/armyrotc/documents/APFT.pdf

And the rules are as follows... we actually have to say all of this to the testees, every time, regardless of how many times they've taken this test... I'll edit it a bit for brevity...


"THE PUSH-UP EVENT MEASURES THE ENDURANCE OF THE CHEST, SHOULDER, AND TRICEPS MUSCLES. ON THE COMMAND 'GET SET,' ASSUME THE FRONT-LEANING REST POSITION BY PLACING YOUR HANDS WHERE THEY ARE COMFORTABLE FOR YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR UP TO 12 INCHES APART. WHEN VIEWED FROM THE SIDE, YOUR BODY SHOULD FORM A GENERALLY STRAIGHT LINE FROM YOUR SHOULDERS TO YOUR ANKLES. ON THE COMMAND 'GO,' BEGIN THE PUSH-UP BY BENDING YOUR ELBOWS AND LOWERING YOUR ENTIRE BODY AS A SINGLE UNIT UNTIL YOUR UPPER ARMS ARE AT LEAST PARALLEL TO THE GROUND. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION BY RAISING YOUR ENTIRE BODY UNTIL YOUR ARMS ARE FULLY EXTENDED. YOUR BODY MUST REMAIN RIGID IN A GENERALLY STRAIGHT LINE AND MOVE AS A UNIT WHILE PERFORMING EACH REPETITION. AT THE END OF EACH REPETITION, THE SCORER WILL STATE THE NUMBER OF REPETITIONS YOU HAVE COMPLETED CORRECTLY. IF YOU FAIL TO KEEP YOUR BODY GENERALLY STRAIGHT, TO LOWER YOUR WHOLE BODY UNTIL YOUR UPPER ARMS ARE AT LEAST PARALLEL TO THE GROUND, OR TO EXTEND YOUR ARMS COMPLETELY, THAT REPETITION WILL NOT COUNT, AND THE SCORER WILL REPEAT THE NUMBER OF THE LAST CORRECTLY PERFORMED REPETITION. IF YOU FAIL TO PERFORM THE FIRST TEN PUSH-UPS CORRECTLY, THE SCORER WILL TELL YOU TO GO TO YOUR KNEES AND WILL EXPLAIN TO YOU WHAT YOUR MISTAKES ARE. YOU WILL THEN BE SENT TO THE END OF THE LINE TO BE RETESTED. AFTER THE FIRST 10 PUSH-UPS HAVE BEEN PERFORMED AND COUNTED, HOWEVER, NO RESTARTS ARE ALLOWED. THE TEST WILL CONTINUE, AND ANY INCORRECTLY PERFORMED PUSH-UPS WILL NOT BE COUNTED. AN ALTERED, FRONT-LEANING REST POSITION IS THE ONLY AUTHORIZED REST POSITION. THAT IS, YOU MAY SAG IN THE MIDDLE OR FLEX YOUR BACK. WHEN FLEXING YOUR BACK, YOU MAY BEND YOUR KNEES, BUT NOT TO SUCH AN EXTENT THAT YOU ARE SUPPORTING MOST OF YOUR BODY WEIGHT WITH YOUR LEGS. IF THIS OCCURS, YOUR PERFORMANCE WILL BE TERMINATED. YOU MUST RETURN TO, AND PAUSE IN, THE CORRECT STARTING POSITION BEFORE CONTINUING. IF YOU REST ON THE GROUND OR RAISE EITHER HAND OR FOOT FROM THE GROUND, YOUR PERFORMANCE WILL BE TERMINATED. YOU MAY REPOSITION YOUR HANDS AND/OR FEET DURING THE EVENT AS LONG AS THEY REMAIN IN CONTACT WITH THE GROUND AT ALL TIMES. CORRECT PERFORMANCE IS IMPORTANT. YOU WILL HAVE TWO MINUTES IN WHICH TO DO AS MANY PUSH-UPS AS YOU CAN.

"THE SIT-UP EVENT MEASURES THE ENDURANCE OF THE ABDOMINAL AND HIP-FLEXOR MUSCLES. ON THE COMMAND "GET SET", ASSUME THE STARTING POSITION BY LYING ON YOUR BACK WITH YOUR KNEES BENT AT A 90-DEGREE ANGLE. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR UP TO 12 INCHES APART. ANOTHER PERSON WILL HOLD YOUR ANKLES WITH THE HANDS ONLY. NO OTHER METHOD OF BRACING OR HOLDING THE FEET IS AUTHORIZED. THE HEEL IS THE ONLY PART OF YOUR FOOT THAT MUST STAY IN CONTACT WITH THE GROUND. YOUR FINGERS MUST BE INTERLOCKED BEHIND YOUR HEAD AND THE BACKS OF YOUR HANDS MUST TOUCH THE GROUND. YOUR ARMS AND ELBOWS NEED NOT TOUCH THE GROUND. ON THE COMMAND "GO", BEGIN RAISING YOUR UPPER BODY FORWARD TO, OR BEYOND, THE VERTICAL POSITION. THE VERTICAL POSITION MEANS THAT THE BASE OF YOUR NECK IS ABOVE THE BASE OF YOUR SPINE. AFTER YOU HAVE REACHED OR SURPASSED THE VERTICAL POSITION, LOWER YOUR BODY UNTIL THE BOTTOM OF YOUR SHOULDER BLADES TOUCH THE GROUND. YOUR HEAD, HANDS, ARMS, OR ELBOWS DO NOT HAVE TO TOUCH THE GROUND. AT THE END OF EACH REPETITION, THE SCORER WILL STATE THE NUMBER OF SIT-UPS YOU HAVE CORRECTLY COMPLETED. A REPETITION WILL NOT COUNT IF YOU FAIL TO REACH THE VERTICAL POSITION, FAIL TO KEEP YOUR FINGERS INTERLOCKED BEHIND YOUR HEAD, ARCH OR BOW YOUR BACK AND RAISE YOUR BUTTOCKS OFF THE GROUND TO RAISE YOUR UPPER BODY, OR LET YOUR KNEES EXCEED A 90-DEGREE ANGLE. IF A REPETITION DOES NOT COUNT, THE SCORER WILL REPEAT THE NUMBER OF YOUR LAST CORRECTLY PERFORMED SIT-UP. THE UP POSITION IS THE ONLY AUTHORIZED REST POSITION. IF YOU STOP AND REST IN THE DOWN (STARTING) POSITION, THE EVENT WILL BE TERMINATED. AS LONG AS YOU MAKE A CONTINUOUS PHYSICAL EFFORT TO SIT UP, THE EVENT WILL NOT BE TERMINATED. YOU MAY NOT USE YOUR HANDS OR ANY OTHER MEANS TO PULL OR PUSH YOURSELF UP TO THE UP (RESTING) POSITION OR TO HOLD YOURSELF IN THE REST POSITION. IF YOU DO SO, YOUR PERFORMANCE IN THE EVENT WILL BE TERMINATED. CORRECT PERFORMANCE IS IMPORTANT. YOU WILL HAVE TWO MINUTES TO PERFORM AS MANY SIT-UPS AS YOU CAN.

"THE TWO-MILE RUN IS USED TO ASSESS YOUR AEROBIC FITNESS AND YOUR LEG MUSCLES' ENDURANCE. YOU MUST COMPLETE THE RUN WITHOUT ANY PHYSICAL HELP. AT THE START, ALL SOLDIERS WILL LINE UP BEHIND THE STARTING LINE. ON THE COMMAND 'GO,' THE CLOCK WILL START. YOU WILL BEGIN RUNNING AT YOUR OWN PACE. TO RUN THE REQUIRED TWO MILES, YOU MUST COMPLETE

(describe the number of laps, start and finish points, and course layout).

YOU ARE BEING TESTED ON YOUR ABILITY TO COMPLETE THE 2-MILE COURSE IN THE SHORTEST TIME POSSIBLE. ALTHOUGH WALKING IS AUTHORIZED, IT IS STRONGLY DISCOURAGED. IF YOU ARE PHYSICALLY HELPED IN ANY WAY (FOR EXAMPLE, PULLED, PUSHED, PICKED UP, AND/OR CARRIED) OR LEAVE THE DESIGNATED RUNNING COURSE FOR ANY REASON, YOU WILL BE DISQUALIFIED. (IT IS LEGAL TO PACE A SOLDIER DURING THE 2-MILE RUN. AS LONG AS THERE IS NO PHYSICAL CONTACT WITH THE PACED SOLDIER AND IT DOES NOT PHYSICALLY HINDER OTHER SOLDIERS TAKING THE TEST, THE PRACTICE OF RUNNING AHEAD OF, ALONG SIDE OF, OR BEHIND THE TESTED SOLDIER, WHILE SERVING AS A PACER, IS PERMITTED. CHEERING OR CALLING OUT THE ELAPSED TIME IS ALSO PERMITTED.) THE NUMBER ON YOUR CHEST IS FOR IDENTIFICATION. YOU MUST MAKE SURE IT IS VISIBLE AT ALL TIMES. TURN IN YOUR NUMBER WHEN YOU FINISH THE RUN. THEN, GO TO THE AREA DESIGNATED FOR THE COOL-DOWN AND STRETCH. DO NOT STAY NEAR THE SCORERS OR THE FINISH LINE AS THIS MAY INTERFERE WITH THE TESTING.

I left some admin stuff in there in case you folks wanted to make this a legit event for your own schools...

[Mr Punch]

Cheers Drake.

DLed that and when I realised I couldn't understand the chart, I realised it was time for bed! :)

BTW, surprised they still do the old-school sit-ups: I won't cos of lower spine issues.

[bodhitree]

I'm doing my push ups today, should we have seperate 'results' threads or should everything be in this one?

[Drake]

I'm doing my push ups today, should we have seperate 'results' threads or should everything be in this one?

If you are doing the APFT, then for sake of realism, don't spend more than 10 minutes between events. In fact, a lot of people suffer on the run because they use their hip flexors to increase their situps.

[bodhitree]

If you are doing the APFT, then for sake of realism, don't spend more than 10 minutes between events. In fact, a lot of people suffer on the run because they use their hip flexors to increase their situps.


we're doing a different exercise every week, then going back in a month to see how much we improve those numbers. At least that's what I believe we agreed upon.

[Drake]

we're doing a different exercise every week, then going back in a month to see how much we improve those numbers. At least that's what I believe we agreed upon.

Oh... I'm just saying if you are doing the Army thingee. It is now clear to me that you are not doing the Army thingee. Therefore, my statement about the Army thingee is heretoforthwith retracted.

[bodhitree]

Oh... I'm just saying if you are doing the Army thingee. It is now clear to me that you are not doing the Army thingee. Therefore, my statement about the Army thingee is heretoforthwith retracted.


well, maybe we should do a one day event thing also..... or maybe that's too much. What do you guys think, post results here or seperate thread?

[Drake]

well, maybe we should do a one day event thing also..... or maybe that's too much. What do you guys think, post results here or seperate thread?

I'm just sayin' the APFT is easy and takes less than an hour of your time.

[Mr Punch]

In fact, a lot of people suffer on the run because they use their hip flexors to increase their situps.Those sit-ups you described have hip-flexors as one of their target muscles in the description. Anything over 30 degs is working the hip flexors rather than the abdomen. It's this in this position of the pelvis that causes enormous deformation load on the lower back which is why a lot of modern trainers don't do them like that any more (the Army is more about gutsing it out at this point, and not overly concerned with long-term back health). I don't quite get what you mean.


...heretoforth...Great word! And thingee should be used more often by the world in general too.


well, maybe we should do a one day event thing also..... or maybe that's too much. What do you guys think, post results here or seperate thread?Separate thread. Deffo.

[Drake]

Those sit-ups you described have hip-flexors as one of their target muscles in the description. Anything over 30 degs is working the hip flexors rather than the abdomen. It's this in this position of the pelvis that causes enormous deformation load on the lower back which is why a lot of modern trainers don't do them like that any more (the Army is more about gutsing it out at this point, and not overly concerned with long-term back health). I don't quite get what you mean.

Great word! And thingee should be used more often by the world in general too.

Separate thread. Deffo.


You know you aren't the first to point out that the situp event is bad for the back. Thing is, I've been taking these tests for eight years now, and if anything, my knees hurt from all that running. Speaking o' which... 5-miler tomorrow... yay!

[Mr Punch]

Well, OK, but the fact about the hip flexors remains, as does the fact that I don't understand what you were talking about using the hip flexors too much...! :confused: :D

[Drake]

Well, OK, but the fact about the hip flexors remains, as does the fact that I don't understand what you were talking about using the hip flexors too much...! :confused: :D


Because they are using the hip flexor muscles to assist their abs when coming up. It helps with the situps, but they are stiff and whatnot when they go to do the 2-mile run.

[Mr Punch]

Because they are using the hip flexor muscles to assist their abs when coming up. It helps with the situps, but they are stiff and whatnot when they go to do the 2-mile run.That's what I'm saying! If you're doing full sit-ups, anatomically, after 30 degrees you HAVE TO use your hip flexors, YOU ARE NOT using your abs. There is no choice not to do this.

[bodhitree]

What should be next after push ups, squats, pull ups?

sit ups? Some kind of sprint? should we keep it at those three? no way?