The Choy Lay Fut Project

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Ongoing project - shooting video of CLF, new clips each week. Breakdown of techniques, forms, applications, strategy, theory, etc.

I hope everyone likes it, I look forward to your comments, criticism and suggestions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8yUMb5n1i0

[chasincharpchui]

1.wat dialect is 'so choih' meant to be? the way u say it i mean

[yaoli]

very good idea! :)

since you have asked for suggestion and opinions, i would suggest you use whiping or relaxed power in your sou choi. you have much power i think it will be more power, fast, and you will have less difficulty breathing in your presentation. your waist should be more flexible.

it would be interesting to see how you continue from sou choi because i see that you are a bit unbalancedin your stance.

thank you this is a marvelous idea to spread the tsai lee fut:)

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Hey, I appreciate that! I'm actually weight training and dieting again as I gained a lot of weight over the past 2 years (I was diagnosed with an underactive thyroid). Shooting the videos are a way to help motivate myself to loose some of the weight as well. Having some extra weight also has stiffened me up a bit, so when I get back to my proper weight, I expect to be a bit looser.

All good points, and thanks again for the feedback, it's always welcome!

[street_fighter]

very cool. Keep it up:)

[yutyeesam]

1.wat dialect is 'so choih' meant to be? the way u say it i mean

Chasin-
When my Sifu (Wong Tat Mau) refers to a leg sweep, he calls it "So Girk". So when Sifu Parella says So Choy to mean sweeping punch, seems to make sense.
Also, I think his dialect is in Toisanese.

-123

[yaoli]

Hey, I appreciate that! I'm actually weight training and dieting again as I gained a lot of weight over the past 2 years (I was diagnosed with an underactive thyroid). Shooting the videos are a way to help motivate myself to loose some of the weight as well. Having some extra weight also has stiffened me up a bit, so when I get back to my proper weight, I expect to be a bit looser.

All good points, and thanks again for the feedback, it's always welcome!

please continue your efforts. you are obviously very experienced in tsai lee fut or choy leih faht. maybe you should consider some t.v. show to present because you are a very good speaker for presentations.

i see from other post you are student of Grandmaster Chan. this is good news. make him very proud of your work.

best

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Chasin-
When my Sifu (Wong Tat Mau) refers to a leg sweep, he calls it "So Girk". So when Sifu Parella says So Choy to mean sweeping punch, seems to make sense.
Also, I think his dialect is in Toisanese.

-123

Yes, my Sifu was a Toi San Yan, so some of our terminology is in straight Cantonese, some in Toi San Wah. For example;

Gwa = Cantonese

Ka = Toi San-ese

Sometimes I do not know which is which.

[chasincharpchui]

Chasin-
When my Sifu (Wong Tat Mau) refers to a leg sweep, he calls it "So Girk". So when Sifu Parella says So Choy to mean sweeping punch, seems to make sense.
Also, I think his dialect is in Toisanese.

-123


so girk is cantonese

the so in so girk and the sow in sow choy is different characters

regardless wat dialect of chinese

[lkfmdc]

so girk is cantonese

the so in so girk and the sow in sow choy is different characters

regardless wat dialect of chinese

uh, NO.....

the "so" in "so geuk" and in "so choih" is the same "so", same character 掃 .... to "sweep"...

Now, is there something useful you'd like to say or contribute?

[nospam]

Good stuff. I like the idea and seeing others show and speak of their technique and philosophies.

No matter what a person posts, there will be flamers and nit-pickers.

Keep it up and looking forward to seeing more of your style.

In 2008 I'll be posting footage of Bak Hsing patterns, applications, and hopefully sparring clips as well.

nospam
:cool:

[hskwarrior]

don't make me run and tell mean gene on your guys!!!!!!

SHEEESE!!!!!! can't we all just get along?:eek:

oh.....wait........WTF am i talking about?

have at it boys!!!!!!:D

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Good stuff. I like the idea and seeing others show and speak of their technique and philosophies.

No matter what a person posts, there will be flamers and nit-pickers.

Keep it up and looking forward to seeing more of your style.

In 2008 I'll be posting footage of Bak Hsing patterns, applications, and hopefully sparring clips as well.

nospam
:cool:

Thanks, I look forward to checking it out.

[Askari Hodari]

This looks good so far. I like the detailed descriptions.

[PM]

as for sau cheui, 2 characters are used (Yale romanisation of Cantonese + character):

sau cheui 掃搥

saau cheui 哨搥

i like the videos, good job! i am looking forward to see next parts

[lkfmdc]

as for sau cheui, 2 characters are used (Yale romanisation of Cantonese + character):

sau cheui 掃搥

saau cheui 哨搥

i like the videos, good job! i am looking forward to see next parts

as you already probably saw, we are used to using the first one..... but thanks for noting it isn't wrong

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I'm on a roll....

Chaap Choih

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XI8rzaUaTQ0

I'll film a few more by the end of the week. I hope they are of interest to some of you.

[WinterPalm]

Good stuff! I like all the vids!

[Vilmore]

great stuff, its really interesting.

Be sure to give us a video on your Kahp that you spoke of in the deadly techniques topic :)

[chasincharpchui]

uh, NO.....

the "so" in "so geuk" and in "so choih" is the same "so", same character 掃 .... to "sweep"...

Now, is there something useful you'd like to say or contribute?

[URL="http://hk.geocities.com/ansonso2000/CLF02.htm"]

gwa 'saau' charp the three treasures of clf

useful enuff?

[lkfmdc]

[URL="http://hk.geocities.com/ansonso2000/CLF02.htm"]

gwa 'saau' charp the three treasures of clf

useful enuff?

Let's just clarify. Are you Chinese? Do you speak Chinese? do you read Chinese? Are you aware that often different characters are used? Do you know what "white characters" are?

Feel free to answer any or all of the above. I note that a good portion of your posts are whines and complaints. "That isn't Buk Sing", "that's not so choih" etc etc etc..... why so negative? Have you considered more bran in your diet?

love and bullets
LKFMDC

[CFT]

I'm not a CLF practitioner, but 哨 does not look right. It means whistle/chirp. You don't have a whistle punch in CLF do you?

To me, lkfmdc has the correct character: 掃. How do you describe the sou/saau choi? Does it perform a sweeping function?

Here is a list of the 10 fist seeds of CLF from Lee Koon Hung's CLF Hong Kong site:

穿、拿、掛、捎、插、拋、扱、標、頂、撞
My wonky romanization: chuen, naa, gwaa, saau, tsaap, paau, kuup, biu, ding, jong.

Here is what he has to say about sou/saau:

鄉音之誤，應叫掃。橫掃千軍之意
Mistake due to village pronunciation, should be sou (sweep). Has the intent of sweeping away 1000 soldiers/warriors.

[CLFNole]

Is the problem that one group is calling is "so" choy with so meaning sweep and the other group saying sow/sau choy with the sow/sau meaning arm? Thus the different characters?

Just a question.

[CFT]

Is the problem that one group is calling is "so" choy with so meaning sweep and the other group saying sow/sau choy with the sow/sau meaning arm? Thus the different characters?

Just a question.No. They are not using the same character as "arm".

[David Jamieson]

concept is good.

I would change the presentation though.

1. describe
2.show the shape
3.show the shape on a mitt
4.show the shape on a bag
5.show the shape v an opponent (gear up and really make it work)

also, it's a good idea to script yourself and to stick to the script, that way none of your talk gets left out and nothing irrelevant gets layered in.

that's my observations. :)

[lkfmdc]

Well, since SOMEONE opened a "can of worms" :rolleyes:

My gneral principle is, unless it is hideously and obviously wrong and/or "deceptive" if that is what your tradition calls it, if that's the character they use, etc.... I have no problem with it. There is a LOT of variation within even tight lineages, a HUGE system is going to have more

This is the bone I picked (rather clean) with Doc Fai Wong in SF one year, with his "I have all the correct answers/I'm special" crap.... yeah, it's nice you have the original Kuen Po, there are still a lot of illiterate farmers who can't even read, much less write, who would still kick your donkey across the bay ;)

The character we use not only means "sweep", it has the hand radical. You'll notice that the character LKH's site uses also has the hand radical. LInguitically speaking, this makes a lot of sense....

The character presented as the "correct one" by someone :rolleyes:

From the "concise Chinese dictionary" printed in Hong Kong 1995

(n) an outpost, a guard station, a whistle
(v) whistle, patrol, act as scout

Not only does the character LACK the hand radical, it's radical is in fact a "sound preserver" and isn't usually associated with ACTION

The definition also doesn't really fit

My bet, I'd bet at least $5, is that it is a "white character". If you don't know what a "white character" is, I'd suggest you not debate "correct characters". It would be like a grade school kid debating quantum physics, ie no tools to grasp the subject at hand ;)

[CFT]

My bet, I'd bet at least $5, is that it is a "white character". If you don't know what a "white character" is, I'd suggest you not debate "correct characters". It would be like a grade school kid debating quantum physics, ie no tools to grasp the subject at hand ;)I'd take your bet and counter that it is a mis-copying of the character with the hand radical that has perpetuated within a particular lineage.

Your analysis is spot on.

BTW, 哨捎掃 sound totally different in standard Cantonese. So the variation could come from village/regional dialects as LKH suggests.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

concept is good.

I would change the presentation though.

1. describe
2.show the shape
3.show the shape on a mitt
4.show the shape on a bag
5.show the shape v an opponent (gear up and really make it work)

also, it's a good idea to script yourself and to stick to the script, that way none of your talk gets left out and nothing irrelevant gets layered in.

that's my observations. :)

I agree.

That was closer to my original intent. I will prepare more in advance and script them out a bit. I would like to get my point across with a lot less chat. Check out the next one I film and let me know if you think it's closer to that concept.

I'm sure I might even wind up re-shooting these, as I left out some key stuff I wanted to include.

[lkfmdc]

BTW, 哨捎掃 sound totally different in standard Cantonese.



CTS did NOT speak standard Cantonese :D

[CFT]

CTS did NOT speak standard Cantonese :DI bet he didn't! Was it his way or the highway? ;)

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I bet he didn't! Was it his way or the highway? ;)

Of course.

But that had nothing to do with his dialect/language...lol

He spoke a mix of Cantonese and Toisanese. More Cantonese if he were speaking to us, but lots of Toi San vocabulary would sneak in, not to mention a variety of colloquialisms that when WE would use them, had us sounding like 70 year old Chinese country folk!

Embarrassing!

[lkfmdc]

I've gotten all sorts of strange looks for the vocabulary I use, that I learned from Sifu.... I also have a Toi San accent even in my Mandarin... a few visiting scholars from CHina said my Mandarin sounded like Premier Li Peng's (if you were around in the 90's, you'll get that) :D

[B-Rad]

Great video! Much better than most of the instructional dvds out there, and it's free ;)

[chasincharpchui]

Well, since SOMEONE opened a "can of worms" :rolleyes:

My gneral principle is, unless it is hideously and obviously wrong and/or "deceptive" if that is what your tradition calls it, if that's the character they use, etc.... I have no problem with it. There is a LOT of variation within even tight lineages, a HUGE system is going to have more

This is the bone I picked (rather clean) with Doc Fai Wong in SF one year, with his "I have all the correct answers/I'm special" crap.... yeah, it's nice you have the original Kuen Po, there are still a lot of illiterate farmers who can't even read, much less write, who would still kick your donkey across the bay ;)

The character we use not only means "sweep", it has the hand radical. You'll notice that the character LKH's site uses also has the hand radical. LInguitically speaking, this makes a lot of sense....

The character presented as the "correct one" by someone :rolleyes:

From the "concise Chinese dictionary" printed in Hong Kong 1995

(n) an outpost, a guard station, a whistle
(v) whistle, patrol, act as scout

Not only does the character LACK the hand radical, it's radical is in fact a "sound preserver" and isn't usually associated with ACTION

The definition also doesn't really fit

My bet, I'd bet at least $5, is that it is a "white character". If you don't know what a "white character" is, I'd suggest you not debate "correct characters". It would be like a grade school kid debating quantum physics, ie no tools to grasp the subject at hand ;)

yes im chinese, i speak cantonese on a daily basis
i know alot more than you think
first of all the term white character, or white language is used outside hong kong
in hong kong wat we talk and how we write, even if it has a "sound preserver" its still cantonese. cantonese is considered more speaking than writing, you cant really write the way u talk in literally which brings in why 哨 character is used, LKH website they made it politically correct for u in which they use 捎, because u use hand to do saau choy.


I'm not a CLF practitioner, but 哨 does not look right. It means whistle/chirp. You don't have a whistle punch in CLF do you?

To me, lkfmdc has the correct character: 掃. How do you describe the sou/saau choi? Does it perform a sweeping function?

Here is a list of the 10 fist seeds of CLF from Lee Koon Hung's CLF Hong Kong site:

穿、拿、掛、 捎、插、拋、扱、標、頂、撞
My wonky romanization: chuen, naa, gwaa, saau, tsaap, paau, kuup, biu, ding, jong.

Here is what he has to say about sou/saau:

鄉音之誤，應叫掃。橫掃千軍之意
Mistake due to village pronunciation, should be sou (sweep). Has the intent of sweeping away 1000 soldiers/warriors.

toisan language sunwui language, heck mandarin, it dont matter

in cantonese its 捎

and lkfmdc dont be a pu$$y, dont refer to me as "SOMEONE", say chasincharpchui next time.
quote me, i dont care

[Gwa Sow Chop]

[QUOTE=yaoli;816558]very good idea! :)

since you have asked for suggestion and opinions, i would suggest you use whiping or relaxed power in your sou choi. you have much power i think it will be more power, fast, and you will have less difficulty breathing in your presentation. your waist should be more flexible.

it would be interesting to see how you continue from sou choi because i see that you are a bit unbalancedin your stance.


Please fell free to post a vid of yourself, with application against focus mitts, pads or bag.


Anyway, I thought it was a good presentation.
Great work!

[lkfmdc]

yes im chinese, i speak cantonese on a daily basis



Fantastic, so at least you have some basis for discussion




i know alot more than you think



how do you know what I "think"? hmmmmmm...... never mind, you're probably right, I probably think you're just a petulant forum member looking to complain about every post on here





why 哨 character is used, LKH website they made it politically correct for u in which they use 捎, because u use hand to do saau choy



Aside from the obvious linguistic difficulty in that you aren't supposed to change radicals as if you are changing your socks, it returns us again to the basic quesiton of why you think "sentry punch" is any more valid, or "ultra correct" as opposed to "sweep punch"?




dont be an idiot, ofcoz clf hasnt got a whistle punch

toisan language sunwui language, heck mandarin, it dont matter

in cantonese its 捎



Ah, but as you yourself just mentioned, there is no "Cantonese" when it comes to writing... there are just characters.....

And 捎 means basicly "taking" which is also sort of a funny description of "so choih" doncha think? :rolleyes:




and dont be a pu$$y, dont refer to me as "SOMEONE", say chasincharpchui next time.



eh gads! you need the new KFO t-shirt :rolleyes:







quote me, i dont care



sure thing, you're now quoted.... run out and tell your friends!

[chasincharpchui]

how do you know what I "think"? hmmmmmm...... never mind, you're probably right, I probably think you're just a petulant forum member looking to complain about every post on here !

its not complaininging, its critisizing and asking questions.




Aside from the obvious linguistic difficulty in that you aren't supposed to change radicals as if you are changing your socks, it returns us again to the basic quesiton of why you think "sentry punch" is any more valid, or "ultra correct" as opposed to "sweep punch"?

same can be asked why u think sweep punch is more correct. i didn't decide to make this stuff up yesterday. it was you that decided that sweep punch was ultra correct.

i said 掃 and 捎 were different


And 捎 means basicly "taking" which is also sort of a funny description of "so choih" doncha think? :rolleyes:

well 'sau choy' can be done on many angles.
funny way to describe a sau choy, if its coming down on u at a 80 degree angle, isnt it? ur no longer sweeping are u?





eh gads! you need the new KFO t-shirt :rolleyes:

sure thing, you're now quoted.... run out and tell your friends

dats right joke ur way out of everything, afterall it is the internet, i guess this is the only place u can do it right?

[lkfmdc]

its not complaininging, its critisizing



it's criticizing without much reason, which is basicly whinning and biotching... increasingly so the more you post here :rolleyes:




why u think sweep punch is more correct. i didn't decide to make this stuff up yesterday. it was you that decided that sweep punch was ultra correct.



hey, here's an idea, why don't you quote where I said something even remotely like that? Go ahead, I dare you :rolleyes:





i said 掃 and 捎 were different



and if my aunt had a chorizo she'd be my uncle, what is your point? :rolleyes:





dats right joke ur way out of everything,



I'm sorry, it's just that you are very hard to take seriously :D

PS; congrats on figuring out finally how to use the quote function, your forum fu is strong

[yaoli]

[QUOTE=yaoli;816558]very good idea! :)

since you have asked for suggestion and opinions, i would suggest you use whiping or relaxed power in your sou choi. you have much power i think it will be more power, fast, and you will have less difficulty breathing in your presentation. your waist should be more flexible.

it would be interesting to see how you continue from sou choi because i see that you are a bit unbalancedin your stance.


Please fell free to post a vid of yourself, with application against focus mitts, pads or bag.


Anyway, I thought it was a good presentation.
Great work!

Thank you kind sir. :)

[CFT]

Cantonese is considered more speaking than writing, you cant really write the way u talk in literally which brings in why 哨 character is used, LKH website they made it politically correct for u in which they use 捎, because u use hand to do saau choy.That's not quite true. There are colloquial Cantonese characters too:

佢 qu2 哋di4/mi4 睇di4 啲 di1 唔 wu2 嘢 ye3 乜 mie1/nie4 咩 mie1 嚟 li2
孭 mie1 (carry on one’s back) 係 xi4 喺 xi2 諗 shen3 慳 qian1 (to save money, energy)
冇 mao3 靚 liang4/jing4 乸 na3 (雞乸 仔 zai3/zi3 嘅 ge2/kai4 瞓 fen3 咗 zuo5
啖 dan4 噉 dan4 啱 yan2 曱 yue1 甴 you2/zha2 咁 han2/xian2 鑊 huo4 畀 bi4 髀 bi4(雞髀)俾 bi3 罅 xia4(手指罅) 嗰 ge3 噚 xun2 脷 li4 捽 cu4 冚 kan3 冧 lin2
姣 jiao1嬲 niao3 搵 wen4 撳/搇 qin4 (to press) 嗻 zhe1（嘅嗻）啫 ze2（嘅啫）奀 en1
咭 ji1 即 ji2 企 qi3 喎 wai1 攞 luo2 搦 nuo4 踭 zheng1 梗 geng3 攰 gui4 癐 gui4
啩 gua3 (唔係啩 噃 bo5/fan1 焗 ju2 躀 guan4 嚡 hai2 擝 meng1 孖 ma1/zi1
梘 jian3 嚿 huo4 戙 dong4 叻 le4（叻仔） 嘞 le1 (係嘞 躉 dun3 (擁躉，監躉)
偈 jie2/ji4 箍 gu1 煲 bao1 搉 que4 燶 nong2 揦 la/la4 喇la1/la3 鱲la4/lie4 （赤鱲角）
孻 nai2 (孻尾) 嚹 la3 躝 lan2 讕 lan2 嚦 li4 （嚦仔）佬 lao3 擸 la4 褸 lv3
嘍 lou2 (嘍口) 摙 lian3 (摙車) 噏 xi1（亂噏） 廿 nian4 咪 mi 飲 yin3 食 shi2 識 shi2
埠 bu4 懵 meng3 掹 meng2 踎 mou2 搣 mie4 腩 na3 揇 nan3 呃 e4 嗌 ai4 屙 e1
鈪 e4 晏 yan4 罌 ying1 拗 ao4 氹 dang4 亦 yi4 翳 yi4 軚 dai4 蝕 shi4 衰 shuai1
戇 gang4/zhuang4

The question is: "what should the sou in sou chui mean"?
Clearly neither 哨 nor 捎 has any kind of meaning in the martial context, whereas
掃 does.

Why did you withdraw the personal attack? You don't stand by your words?

[diego]

Ongoing project - shooting video of CLF, new clips each week. Breakdown of techniques, forms, applications, strategy, theory, etc.

I hope everyone likes it, I look forward to your comments, criticism and suggestions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8yUMb5n1i0

good job with clip # 3 chop choi...this is revolutionary **** what you doing here:) peeps gonna have to make their dvd's real good if they're putting them out for sale!!.pz

[diego]

hm,seriously...imagine if all the instructors on this kung fu mag forum did this like kfmag real world ****s...eventually it would turn into an online village...kfmag chen style team conferance with the praying mantis team all on youtube and ****

That'd be some marvelous ****...Gene needs to be doing this for the magazine...

[CLFNole]

Lama:

Just curious did your sifu, CTS, also teach you to twist (corkscrew motion) the chaap choy in certain cases?

Peace.

[Tai-Lik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2Jni955xqI

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Lama:

Just curious did your sifu, CTS, also teach you to twist (corkscrew motion) the chaap choy in certain cases?

Peace.

Yes he did.

I could probably spend two to three hours talking about the different applications and variations, i.e., angles, stances, etc.

I will definatly put up more clips about chaap.

[CLFNole]

I figured as much. I thought the clip was good and showed a very practical use of the chop choy especially the part as to when to use the panther vs. the standard fist. A lot of people get this confused and think its always a panther fist when the panther fist is truly designed for softer tissue areas rather than going against hard areas and bones.

Also do you think since CTS studied both Lama and CLF and since we share common techniques, that various aspects or ways one style does thing transferred over to the other style? Maybe he liked the way one style did something compared to the other.

[chasincharpchui]

to lamapai and others that use so choy instead of sau choy:

i merely asked a simple question to wat dialect 'so' was meant to be in
i was taught sau and not so. lkfmdc had to be the smart ass and ask if i had something uself to contribute, and the rest y' all can read urself

i will continue to critisize techniques regardless if its welcomed or not. if u dont wanna be critisized dont post on the net.

lkfmdc, im no master but u obviously are, a master of the chinese and english language, aand foremost a grandmaster of joking ur way out of every situation.

id hate to be somone that pays u hard earned cash to only learn to say 'knock knock' jokes or roll their eyes wen an aggresive person fronts them on the street.

thank god my master doesnt take my hard earned money and sell me lies.

[lkfmdc]

y' all can read urself



yes, they can read the entire thread and see exactly what transpired. You should re-read it also, and see if you can note how many people disagree with you... then try and get over it




i will continue to critisize



That was never really in doubt, since it appears that is all you are capable of




id hate to be somone that pays u hard earned cash to only learn to say 'knock knock' jokes or roll their eyes wen an aggresive person fronts them on the street.

thank god my master doesnt take my hard earned money and sell me lies.



LMFAO, what a clueless twit you are! Dear lord... you have no idea what you are talking about and it's so darn apparent.....

Take some advice, stop, you're embarassing yourself

[hskwarrior]

this issue is kinda funny

however, i use sow or sau choy......

but it reminds me of people saying.....low bun, lew bin, and of course Lau Bun........

there's only two characters, but 3 different ways to say it right there.......

guess its a preferential type of thing.

[CFT]

Frank, the issue is that different Chinese characters are being used so its different to your example.

The question still remains: "what should so/sou/saau mean regardless of what character is used"?

I would say that it should mean sweep, and there is a specific and standard character for that, but maybe it does depend on your lineage.

I think the confusion arose because someone (not on this forum) tried to find a written character to represent the term spoken in a village or regional dialect rather than standard spoken Guangdong/HK Cantonese.

[cjurakpt]

Frank, the issue is that different Chinese characters are being used so its different to your example.

The question still remains: "what should so/sou/saau mean regardless of what character is used"?

I would say that it should mean sweep, and there is a specific and standard character for that, but maybe it does depend on your lineage.

I think the confusion arose because someone (not on this forum) tried to find a written character to represent the term spoken in a village or regional dialect rather than standard spoken Guangdong/HK Cantonese.
I'm sorry - I didn't actually folllow this closely - is someone actually suggesting, regardless of the transliteration (I mean, who really cares), that the character used for so/sau/sow/saaauuuh/su-weeeee isn't "sweep"? I mean, duh, just look at the technique! it "sweeps" across (or down, or diagonally, whatever) - it's not like sweeping with a broom, I agree, but it is a sweeping motion - sort of like making a sweeping generalization (I know, we don't get those here so it's hard to reference), in a martial sense, right?

and I agree that the reason it could have been miswritten was that someone who taught the technique, said the name in their dialect, someone else heard it, wrote it as they heard it based on their own sub-dialect and then didn't bother to verify it; that and/or the teacher might have even been illiterate (!), so couldn't correct the character when asked (not saying that's it, just another plausible situation, since that is what happened with a number of the taiji names of techniques - so ha: you guys bicker over one character - big deal! over on the taiji forum we can argue about translations of entire sections or even the whole form!)

[CFT]

I'm sorry - I didn't actually folllow this closely - is someone actually suggesting, regardless of the transliteration (I mean, who really cares), that the character used for so/sau/sow/saaauuuh/su-weeeee isn't "sweep"? Yes!


ha: you guys bicker over one character - big deal! over on the taiji forum we can argue about translations of entire sections or even the whole form!)Yes, I came across an example a while back. Can't remember what family it was. One section was interpreted as "lazily dressing in clothes" (the motion of putting on clothes) whereas the other way was written differently though sounding similar and hence inspired a different motion/energy.

[nospam]

CLFNole


showed a very practical use of the chop choy especially the part as to when to use the panther vs. the standard fist. A lot of people get this confused and think its always a panther fist when the panther fist is truly designed for softer tissue areas rather than going against hard areas and bones.


..if you wouldn't mind clarifying, who the a lot of people that get confused about chop choy are? I would assume you are talking about non-CLF people, as I can't see how a CLF person would be confused about their own style.

Lama Pai Sifu

Your website states your CLF is Green Cloud, a style that could only be learned by monks or students of the Clear Cloud Monastery in Toi-San. Clear Cloud Style contains elements of both Hung Sing and Buk Sing, but has additional influences from other styles as well (such as Lama Pai, Bok Mei and Ba Gwa).

I never heard of Green Cloud CLF...although I was aware there were many branches than just the 3 more common. I am curious as how you reconcile the differences. Seems to me to be a lot of influences. For example...what aspect of Bak Hsing do you people incorporate?

nospam
:cool:

[CFT]

Your website states your CLF is Green Cloud, a style that could only be learned by monks or students of the Clear Cloud Monastery in Toi-San. Clear Cloud Style contains elements of both Hung Sing and Buk Sing, but has additional influences from other styles as well (such as Lama Pai, Bok Mei and Ba Gwa).lkfmdc cleared this up a while back. Clear Cloud and Green Cloud are one and the same. Sifu Parrella and his sihingdai had been using the translation "Green Cloud" based on oral transmission from CTS sifu. They only recently found out that the "ching"/"qing" character they had assumed was "green" was actually "clear" - they sound the same in Cantonese (and Mandarin I think).

Clear: 清
Green: 青

I think this is just a case of incomplete revision of his website.

[lkfmdc]

lkfmdc cleared this up a while back. Clear Cloud and Green Cloud are one and the same. Sifu Parrella and his sihingdai had been using the translation "Green Cloud" based on oral transmission from CTS sifu. They only recently found out that the "ching"/"qing" character they had assumed was "green" was actually "clear" - they sound the same in Cantonese (and Mandarin I think).

Clear: 清
Green: 青

I think this is just a case of incomplete revision of his website.

yes, we thought "ching" was "green" but found out it was "clear"... dumb lo faan :p

regarding the CLF CTS did (thus Lama Pai Sifu does), what was done at the monastery was never delineated as either Hung Sing or Buk Sing... just called Choy Lay Fut... it clearly had elements/influences of other stuff that was being done at the monastery as well.....

Additionally, CTS studied with several different CLF teachers after he left the monastery, making what he did even more mixed

For the record, CTS always just said "choy lay fut"... the "Green/Clear cloud" tag was an artificial creation we used to just define that what we do is neither Hung nor Buk

(though, of course, I'd be proud to be hung :D LOL)

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Actually, we had made an error many years ago, in translating the name of the temple which my teacher was raised in. We (my classmates and I) made an mistake in translating a character which sounded similiar and was even written similiarly.

The temple is called the Clear Cloud Temple.

Chan Tai-San was raised in the Clear Cloud Temple.

There is No Green Cloud Temple.

Hence, there is No Green Cloud Choy Lay Fut.

This fact is acknowledged by all of CTS students, except one.

However, it is still a fact. I was in Toi San. Nothing Green about any temple.

There might be a typo still left on my website, I'll have to check. But we found this out a few years ago, BEFORE I actually went back to Toi San for the first time in '05.

That being said;

It is very difficult to say what exactly was taught at the temple. From all the information I have gathered, the temple was know by many people as a place where many martial arts styles wound up. Knowing that years ago, CMA were a lot less concerned with preservation of their style's lineages and more concerned with preservation of THEMSELVES, it's hard to say what happened to or how a style was influenced.

I also know that my teacher had several CLF teachers, apparently Chan Family, Buk Sing and Hung Sing. We have earmarks and core combos and techniques from all the branches, 'L' shape openings, different Chaap Choihs, So Choihs, etc. Not to mention, of course, my Sifu's own preferences and interpretations that are certainly influenced from other styles and teachers.

In going back to Toi-San a few times, I have learned much about my Sifu's teachers, both in the temple and out, his classmates (lots of info about them), his professional boxing career and what their training was like.

I also spent a few days with my Si-Gung's son (70 years old) which was really cool, becuase he grew up around my teachers and his classmates. I also learned a few sets from him which were unfettered, as my Si-Gung was his only teacher.

Cool stuff. Also a lot of different stuff too.

You have to realize, although there is a lot of CLF in this country, most of it comes from three/four sources - Wong Duk Fei (Doc Fei Wong), Wong Dat Mau (Tat Mau Wong), The Lacey's and Chan Yueng Fa. Doc Fei Wong is from Lau Bun and a few other teachers, Tat Mau Wong is from Lee Kwoon Hung.

So all of this CLF in this country, if you think about it, comes from only 4 schools. I'm probably leaving someone out here, and if I've made an error, I certainly appologize. There are/were a whole lot more schools/lines than just 4, don'tcha think?

It's like, for the longest time, Yip Man WAS Wing Chun. Now, we have found out that there are many other lines of it, some with more forms, some with completely different forms all together. Reality of it is, NO one else does the YIP MAN version, except for YIP MAN and HIS Students. Yip Man created his version - no one else has one that looks similiar. Again, if I'm wrong, I welcome the evidence and no harm intended. I'm trying to prove a point/theory.

There are more interpretations to CLF that just what is in the few schools (that are large and popular) that are well known in this country. Some we have never seen/never will see, and some that are obscure.

Basically, there is a large KF ocean, bigger than the small pond that we get a chance to see. I think with the advent of sites like youtube, the pond is getter much larger very quickly. I think if we all get out there and share, we'll all be swimming in the ocean in no time.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

lkfmdc cleared this up a while back. Clear Cloud and Green Cloud are one and the same. Sifu Parrella and his sihingdai had been using the translation "Green Cloud" based on oral transmission from CTS sifu. They only recently found out that the "ching"/"qing" character they had assumed was "green" was actually "clear" - they sound the same in Cantonese (and Mandarin I think).

Clear: 清
Green: 青

I think this is just a case of incomplete revision of his website.

yes, it's just the water radical on the side..the three ticks, which we missed.

I guess if you add water to something green, it becomes clear! LOL

[Lama Pai Sifu]

a style that could only be learned by monks or students of the Clear Cloud Monastery in Toi-San. Clear Cloud Style contains elements of both Hung Sing and Buk Sing, but has additional influences from other styles as well (such as Lama Pai, Bok Mei and Ba Gwa).




I actually got the names of the monks and students in the temple as well. I also got to meet a guy (in his late 80's) who was Chan Tai San's boxing coach (see above post) and his father was my Si-Gung's SENIOR student. He died when Chan Tai-San was in his 20's, I believe.

[hskwarrior]

sorry bra, but when you are mentioning Lau Bun's lineage, GM Salvatera is the head master of Lau Bun's lineage. Wong Doc Fai is more Chan Family CLF.

[hskwarrior]

The Choy Lee Fut represented in the United states is as follows..........

Jeong Yim's Fut San lineage.......

Gm Salvatera: Head Master of Yuen Hai/Lau Bun's lineage

Paul Chu of the Chui Kwong Yuen Hung Sing lineage is in texas.

New York Hung Sing (Jeh Wing Bun lineage)


Chan Family CLF is represented by:

GM Doc Fai Wong, Chan Yong Fa, and the Ngan Yiu Ting lineage


Buk Sing's main representatives in America are:

Both Dave and Vince Lacey, Lai Hung.


and we cannot forget the Late Great Lee Koon Hung .........RIP.

So we have at least 9 Main CLF representatives in America.

Then you have the other schools who have a little Choy Lee Fut, picked up a few moves, or a few forms here and there.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

to lamapai and others that use so choy instead of sau choy:

i merely asked a simple question to wat dialect 'so' was meant to be in
i was taught sau and not so. lkfmdc had to be the smart ass and ask if i had something uself to contribute, and the rest y' all can read urself

i will continue to critisize techniques regardless if its welcomed or not. if u dont wanna be critisized dont post on the net.

lkfmdc, im no master but u obviously are, a master of the chinese and english language, aand foremost a grandmaster of joking ur way out of every situation.

id hate to be somone that pays u hard earned cash to only learn to say 'knock knock' jokes or roll their eyes wen an aggresive person fronts them on the street.

thank god my master doesnt take my hard earned money and sell me lies.


I didn't say I had a problem with you. As far as I knew, you asked about the dialect/use of a word. I don't think it's an issue to really debate. We call it the sweeping fist. It makes sense to me.

If you want to call it something else, that's okay too.

Sweeping fist, sweeping kick, same character to me, same motion. Yes, the fist technique can come from different angles and use different hand positions. It's still the same motion as the sweeping kick, regardless of what plane it's on.

That is how I see is. The character debate is really out of my league, as I can only read about 100+ characters.

Peace

[Lama Pai Sifu]

sorry bra, but when you are mentioning Lau Bun's lineage, GM Salvatera is the head master of Lau Bun's lineage. Wong Doc Fai is more Chan Family CLF.

I know who your Sifu is, I didn't mean dissrespect. My correction should have been Lau Bun lineage (Hung Sing, USA).

[extrajoseph]

lkfmdc cleared this up a while back. Clear Cloud and Green Cloud are one and the same. Sifu Parrella and his sihingdai had been using the translation "Green Cloud" based on oral transmission from CTS sifu. They only recently found out that the "ching"/"qing" character they had assumed was "green" was actually "clear" - they sound the same in Cantonese (and Mandarin I think).

Clear: 清
Green: 青

I think this is just a case of incomplete revision of his website.

Sorry to nitpick again, but if it is meant to be "Clear Cloud", then a sun radical is used, they are not one and the same:

Clear晴
Clean or Clear off: 清
Green or Azure: 青

[Lama Pai Sifu]

The Choy Lee Fut represented in the United states is as follows..........

Jeong Yim's Fut San lineage.......

Gm Salvatera: Head Master of Yuen Hai/Lau Bun's lineage

Paul Chu of the Chui Kwong Yuen Hung Sing lineage is in texas.

New York Hung Sing (Jeh Wing Bun lineage)


Chan Family CLF is represented by:

GM Doc Fai Wong, Chan Yong Fa, and the Ngan Yiu Ting lineage


Buk Sing's main representatives in America are:

Both Dave and Vince Lacey, Lai Hung.


and we cannot forget the Late Great Lee Koon Hung .........RIP.

So we have at least 9 Main CLF representatives in America.

Then you have the other schools who have a little Choy Lee Fut, picked up a few moves, or a few forms here and there.

I was kind of referring to lines rather than school's per se.

My point is, that most of the stuff we see today, comes from only a few lines. It's not like we say 30 different versions/families of CLF. That's all.

Our scope is limited to the interpretation of these families alone. I am saying that there are other groups besides these. Go into Guangdong and you'll see a bunch of different clf.

[hskwarrior]

Mike, i just want my sifu to get his due props.

Although Doc Fai Wong stills teaches Lau Bun forms, but for our lineae, my sifu is the Main representative..no problem......just wanted to clarify things.

peace.

[lkfmdc]

Mike, i just want my sifu to get his due props.

Although Doc Fai Wong stills teaches Lau Bun forms, but for our lineae, my sifu is the Main representative..no problem......just wanted to clarify things.

peace.

It's all good Frank, no issues. Mike is just saying there are lineages of CLF in China that we don't really see here in the US, I think we all sort of already know that

[CFT]

Sorry to nitpick again, but if it is meant to be "Clear Cloud", then a sun radical is used, they are not one and the same:

Clear晴
Clean or Clear off: 清
Green or Azure: 青Both 晴 and 清 can mean "clear". But they sound different in standard Cantonese.

The compound 晴雲 results in 103,00 hits in Google, whereas 清雲 gets 715,000.

I would normally associate 晴 with 晴天 which means a clear bright day/sky.

[lkfmdc]

I have a great idea!

A forum dedicated to arguing over the correct Chinese character :p

:D

[Drake]

I thought GM Doc Fai Wong now refers to his lineage as the Jiangmen lineage?

[extrajoseph]

Unless the water radical is used to indicate quiet and unattached as in "qing-jing" and "qing-xu".

Quiet: SIZE="4"]清静[/SIZE]
Unattached:清虚

Or it could also refer to "qing-zhen", a Muslim temple.

Muslim or Islamic: 清真

[extrajoseph]

I thought GM Doc Fai Wong now refers to his lineage as the Jiangmen lineage?

In that case he is "WELL HUNG" two!:D

[CFT]

I have a great idea!

A forum dedicated to arguing over the correct Chinese character :p

:DIt's your fault! :D

[lkfmdc]

No, I think it's clearly Frank's fault ;):D:p:D:D

[omarthefish]

I love arguing over Chinese characters.

I vote 青云 because that's the combination that comes up by default on my MS-pinyin IME and also because 晴天 looks weird to me. No reason. Just my instinct saying it doesn't look like a good name for a MA school.


I would normally associate 晴 with 晴天 which means a clear bright day/sky.

Sorry to break this to you but so does 青天。Maybe 晴天 is a southern habit. Maybe extrajoseph forgot what "azure" means? :D

[lkfmdc]

Just my instinct saying it doesn't look like a good name for a MA school.



It was the name of a monastery/Temple, which just happened to have a lot of martial arts people hanging around it....

It is defintely "cloud" 雲

the initial problem was, the first time we saw Sifu write the character, it was with a spear point in the dirt in the park, we missed the water radical I guess ;)

[extrajoseph]

Both
The compound [SIZE="3"]晴雲 results in 103,00 hits in Google, whereas 清雲 gets 715,000.

The name 清云寺 temple with the water radical gets 2,710 hits in Google.
The name 青云寺 temple without any radical gets 925 hits, and
The name 晴云寺 temple with the sun radical gets no hit.

So it is either with the water radical or without.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Holy Crap !!
You guys are still discussing chinese characters ???

WTF people !!

[Lama Pai Sifu]

It is the first one - WITH the water radical. I had ten guys in Toi-San write it down for me. I would think they would know. It was also written right on the front of the temple. End of story.

Let it go and lets get back to some good talk...

[extrajoseph]

ISorry to break this to you but so does 青天。Maybe 晴天 is a southern habit. Maybe extrajoseph forgot what "azure" means? :D

Qing Long has Qing without any radical and that can be translated as the Azure Dragon, it stands for the Pure Yang Qi, so Qing Yun Si, or the Azure Cloud Temple could also be possible, meaning a temple with pure yang qi (cloud) - the qi of enlightenment.

[lkfmdc]

Holy Crap !!
You guys are still discussing chinese characters ???


either that or read the 1bad65 vs Rudy thread(s) :eek:

[extrajoseph]

It is the first one - WITH the water radical. I had ten guys in Toi-San write it down for me. I would think they would know. It was also written right on the front of the temple. End of story.

Let it go and lets get back to some good talk...


Have you got a picture of the sign over the temple?

[lkfmdc]

Have you got a picture of the sign over the temple?

yeah, WTF? PICS :D

[lkfmdc]

There's a sign on the wall but she wants to be sure
'Cause you know sometimes words have two meanings.

[extrajoseph]

It is the first one - WITH the water radical. I had ten guys in Toi-San write it down for me. I would think they would know. It was also written right on the front of the temple. End of story.

Let it go and lets get back to some good talk...

The picture you have on your website under "History" showing the front of the temple is "Qing Yun Si", the Qing character there has nothing to do with any of the characters we are talikng about here, it literally translated as "Celebrating the Cloud". That makes sense, celebrating or rejoicing in the Qi. Same sound, but with a completely different character and meaning to "clear" or "green" cloud.

http://www.lamakungfu.org/

[lkfmdc]

The picture you have on your website under "History" showing the front of the temple is "Qing Yun Si", the Qing character there has nothing to do with any of the characters we are talikng about here, it literally translated as "Celebrating the Cloud". That makes sense, celebrating or rejoicing in the Qi. Same sound, but with a completely different character and meaning to "clear" or "green" cloud.

http://www.lamakungfu.org/

that is a different temple, that is the one Sing Lung was in, the one CTS was raised in is in the area, but different, got it? ;)

[lkfmdc]

Oh, I went back and looked, we never updated that site (MY FAULT :eek:)... the site is relatively new, but the text dates back to circa 1992... back then we thought it was "Green", we even thought it was the same monastery... we learned a lot since then

[extrajoseph]

What is the Chinese character for Jyu Chyuhn? If he studied with Chan Koon Pak, then there would be a written record of him.

[CFT]

What is the Chinese character for Jyu Chyuhn? If he studied with Chan Koon Pak, then there would be a written record of him.Family name 朱?

[lkfmdc]

What is the Chinese character for Jyu Chyuhn? If he studied with Chan Koon Pak, then there would be a written record of him.

Only problem, it may be an "alias" (PM me if you want details)

[omarthefish]

It was the name of a monastery/Temple, which just happened to have a lot of martial arts people hanging around it....

It is defintely "cloud" 雲

the initial problem was, the first time we saw Sifu write the character, it was with a spear point in the dirt in the park, we missed the water radical I guess ;)


I wrote it with "cloud". I was talking about the choices for "qing".


The name 清云寺 temple with the water radical gets 2,710 hits in Google.
The name 青云寺 temple without any radical gets 925 hits, and
The name 晴云寺 temple with the sun radical gets no hit.

So it is either with the water radical or without.


See. I knew that the one with the sun radical just looked "wrong". ;)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Holy testicle Tuesday !!
What's the chinese character for anally retentive ???

[extrajoseph]

Holy testicle Tuesday !!
What's the chinese character for anally retentive ???

"Gang-li-qiang" 肛力强

[lkfmdc]

肛力强!!!!

yeah biotches :D

[extrajoseph]

Yes, very good for a loose bowel. :D

[hskwarrior]

oh sure blame me for this whole dammmm fiasco!!!!!!!

i bet joseph was behind this.:D

[lkfmdc]

so, if I understand you correctly, you are saying that Joseph is behind anally retentive people? What is he doing behind them and is it related to their retentiveness? :D

[hskwarrior]

iron anus Choy Lee Fut techniques.

The secret is within the grip:p

[extrajoseph]

Oh, you "gang bu kai" 肛不开 you!:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

Gang bang what ???

[nospam]

Man is ADHD rampant around here. :eek:

Anywho..

Lama Pai Sifu - thanks for explaining more about your particular branch. Guess you folks were MMa a long time ago. ;)

CLFNole - still wondering who these people are that seem to be perpetually confused about chop choy and the panther fist.

nospam
:cool:

[cjurakpt]

Yes, I came across an example a while back. Can't remember what family it was. One section was interpreted as "lazily dressing in clothes" (the motion of putting on clothes) whereas the other way was written differently though sounding similar and hence inspired a different motion/energy.
this refers to the opening of the taiji form - what the Chen form gives as "Lazily Binding the Robe", the Yang form gives as "Grasp Sparrows Tail"; my understanding is that in Chinese they sound very similar, and as Yang Lou Chan was not the most highly literate individual, there was evidently some "linguistic drift"...


It's like, for the longest time, Yip Man WAS Wing Chun. Now, we have found out that there are many other lines of it, some with more forms, some with completely different forms all together. Reality of it is, NO one else does the YIP MAN version, except for YIP MAN and HIS Students. Yip Man created his version - no one else has one that looks similiar.
this is exactly the same situation with taiji in the US - for the longest time, like maybe 30 years, everyone thought Chen Man Chings highly personalized style of taiji was what all taiji was like, because he was pretty much the only gig in town, and since he was based in NYC, he had exposure to a large number of students...


It is the first one - WITH the water radical. I had ten guys in Toi-San write it down for me. I would think they would know. It was also written right on the front of the temple. End of story
and furthermore, I had my taiji teacher look at it when Mike was doing all the research, as he is a classically trained Chinese scholar - not only did he agreee with the character, he said that in terms of "literati" convention, it made sense ("Green Cloud", on the other hand, he said made no sense, that is was something that would just not be employed by anyone educated...).

[Lama Pai Sifu]

this refers to the opening of the taiji form - what the Chen form gives as "Lazily Binding the Robe", the Yang form gives as "Grasp Sparrows Tail"; my understanding is that in Chinese they sound very similar, and as Yang Lou Chan was not the most highly literate individual, there was evidently some "linguistic drift"...



This is such a funny point. For some reason, everyone just assumes that EVERY CMA was a literary genius who was an expert on the written language, a skilled orator and a brilliant historian. They ate with 2 fu(king sticks for heaven's sake! They knew about the fork but they kept eating with sticks. They weren't plowing the fields with an ox and two pool cues, were they? No, I think not.

Most of them were fighters, not scholars.

They got characters wrong and some couldn't read at all.

Whatever. 90% of all the CMA history is subjective propaganda anyway. Notice how every style has the coolest stories in thier tradition? Most of it just didnt' happen. They are just cool stories, that's all.

We should focus on the content of our MA much more and not have so many flame wars about lineage. This is why I am putting my stuff out there. Maybe more people will do the same. I've been inspired (and sometimes just disgusted) by people putting their stuff on the web. I think it's good for everyone.

[CLFNole]

Nospam:

My comment about the chop choy was just a general statement about people who don't understand the chaap choy and its usage. Thats about it, nothing more to it than that.

[monji112000]

Lama Pai Sifu - thanks for explaining more about your particular branch. Guess you folks were MMa a long time ago. ;)

allot of CMA were MMA, so many styles are mixes of many teachers.
Jow ga is a perfect example. Wing Chun also is a mix of the two or three teachers IP Man had.
Its only natural to learn from whoever you can, people often move around so its very hard to learn a "whole" style.

[T. Cunningham]

The Choy Lee Fut represented in the United states is as follows..........

Jeong Yim's Fut San lineage.......

Gm Salvatera: Head Master of Yuen Hai/Lau Bun's lineage

Paul Chu of the Chui Kwong Yuen Hung Sing lineage is in texas.

New York Hung Sing (Jeh Wing Bun lineage)


Chan Family CLF is represented by:

GM Doc Fai Wong, Chan Yong Fa, and the Ngan Yiu Ting lineage


Buk Sing's main representatives in America are:

Both Dave and Vince Lacey, Lai Hung.


and we cannot forget the Late Great Lee Koon Hung .........RIP.

So we have at least 9 Main CLF representatives in America.

Then you have the other schools who have a little Choy Lee Fut, picked up a few moves, or a few forms here and there.

Point of clarification...Wong Doc Fai does not represent Chan Family and its a bit of a slight to list him before Master Chen Yong Fa as a proponent of Chan Family. Despite him courting Master Chen's uncle, Doc Fai always has been and currently is Hung Sing. Review his lineage http://plumblossom.net/ChoyLiFut/history.html

Todd

[Tai-Lik]

Lama pai Sifu wrote:


We should focus on the content of our MA much more and not have so many flame wars about lineage. This is why I am putting my stuff out there. Maybe more people will do the same. I've been inspired (and sometimes just disgusted) by people putting their stuff on the web. I think it's good for everyone.

Good point Mike. hallelujah!
i gotta hand it to you for putting yourself out there. Please continue putting out the vids. hopefully the discussion can get back on point.

[Drake]

Point of clarification...Wong Doc Fai does not represent Chan Family and its a bit of a slight to list him before Master Chen Yong Fa as a proponent of Chan Family. Despite him courting Master Chen's uncle, Doc Fai always has been and currently is Hung Sing. Review his lineage http://plumblossom.net/ChoyLiFut/history.html

Todd

Why is it a slight? GM Doc Fai wong already wrote about the how and why behind calling his lineage Jiangmen. I won't repeat what he's written.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Lama pai Sifu wrote:



Good point Mike. hallelujah!
i gotta hand it to you for putting yourself out there. Please continue putting out the vids. hopefully the discussion can get back on point.

Thank you TL. I will keep putting video up on the web. I'll have some more clips up later today.

Hopefully you and your better half will have some time to hang with me and mine when you come back up here to visit.

Maybe we can shoot some video clips together. That would be cool.

[hskwarrior]

TODD,

let's not get that twisted, cool?

i slapped that together without any real thought. i was trying to list what masters represented what branch or school. so to say i slighted chan yong fa is unfair, because it was all done so quickly to illustrate something.

and Most of Doc Fai Wong's schools use Heroic Victory Hung Sing.

Sorry, but he doesn't represent our lineage. if he does, it's through wu van cheuk, who eventually went to learn from Chan Yiu Chi.

but let that drop, it's of no importance here.

[hskwarrior]

sorry, i have a question though todd,

if doc fai wong doesn't represent chan family, who does he represent then?

Hung Sing Fut San? NO.

he is doing big things in with the Chan Fam, rebuilt chan heungs home, donated money, and what not.

most of what he teaches are chan family forms.........

[fawlung]

I would guess that Wong Doc Fai Sifu represents himself and his Plum Blossom Federation.

I wonder if I'd let him represent me if he came to my house and performed an "Extreme Home Makeover" :)

[Drake]

I would guess that Wong Doc Fai Sifu represents himself and his Plum Blossom Federation.

I wonder if I'd let him represent me if he came to my house and performed an "Extreme Home Makeover" :)

He actually gives free Feng Shui advice on his Plum Blossom message board.

[Mano Mano]

He actually gives free Feng Shui advice on his Plum Blossom message board.
How much does he charge for a house visit.

[Drake]

No idea. I know he does it, though. E-mail him. He's in China right now with a bunch of students, so it may be a while. I wish I could go, but I don't even know if I'm even ALLOWED to go to China.

[Mano Mano]

No idea. I know he does it, though. E-mail him. He's in China right now with a bunch of students, so it may be a while. I wish I could go, but I don't even know if I'm even ALLOWED to go to China.
I think I’ll pass on that, I don’t think I could afford the cost of the keun po.

[B-Rad]

Is there much CLF left on the mainland, or was it more recently re-introduced?

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I think there is still some stuff that you'll only see in the mainland. I saw some on a few trips - very different from what I see here.

[CLFNole]

Yeah I have seen a few clips on YouTube of some mainland stuff that is very different. The way the forms are played, names of sets, etc... some even have a real hung gar look to them as well, but hey everyone is entitled to their own interpretation and flare I suppose.

[k-no]

If I had anything disparaging to say, I'd definitely be nitpicking.

Truth is, I kinda like the videos. Looking at the current Youtube fare, there is much MUCH worse out there. I think these videos capture the essence of CLF that is useful for the street.

Personally, while I appreciate perfect form, I think that has its place in forms competition and not when you're trying to prevent someone from taking your head off.

It's early on in the project and I'm sure we'll see even more growth with the content. Great job Michael, looking forward to the next one.

[omarthefish]

I thoroughly enjoyed the videos.

As some may know, I am flirting with taking up some formal Choi Li Fut training and I really liked the flavour you put on it there, especially the technique who's name got everyone's panties in a bunch. Sau Choi. Also very happy to finally learn, after many years, what "choi" means. I always "translated" it as "punch" but could never understand why it wasn't called a "kuen" then. Seeing the characters, now I get it.

Anyways, I've seen that move in forms a lot and never made huge sense of it but those videos gave it some great context and, despite the nitpicking, I though the body mechanics in it were pretty cool. Been playing with it on my own.

Mike Parella, I also want to mention that I can really see where your success comes from as a teacher. Good stuff. Good presence. Very down to earth. I remember when you came "trolling" emptyflower for potential new instructors and got kind of snubbed by a lot of people who were kind of trapped into feeling if it wasn't semi-private and in somebody's back yard or public park it must not be authentic or something.

Good stuff. Enjoyed it(them).

[Lama Pai Sifu]

If I had anything disparaging to say, I'd definitely be nitpicking.

Truth is, I kinda like the videos. Looking at the current Youtube fare, there is much MUCH worse out there. I think these videos capture the essence of CLF that is useful for the street.

Personally, while I appreciate perfect form, I think that has its place in forms competition and not when you're trying to prevent someone from taking your head off.

It's early on in the project and I'm sure we'll see even more growth with the content. Great job Michael, looking forward to the next one.

Thanks for the kind words. I'll have some cool CLF trapping on tonight. I want to show a few of my favorite techs and how to use the CLF hook as upposed to a boxing/MMA hook.

[stout]

I enjoyed your material on the Chap, practically a free lession. Very generious of you to share.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Thanks,

Here is the next one - Gok Choih (Hook Punch)

I'm sure there are many different names for it, this is the one we use.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWfRsh2roeI

Hope you all enjoy it.

[Vilmore]

Hi, very nice presentation (with the cut out it looks very pro)

Am I wrong to suppose that in the situations you used to show the hookpunch you could have used a sau choi instead. And could you talk about where you would use a hook and where a sau? I know its a different movement (different striking areas, probably aiming more to the chin, less to the back of the head as opposed to sau choi) but the situation in which you would use one and not the other isn't clear to me, so could you be so kind to elaborate on the subject? (and other too of course)

thx

[hskwarrior]

Check this out,

in my lineage there are three main, there are more, but the three main sow choy's we use used the same knuckles are the KUP choy, but more of a i guess a 45 degree angle. it goes diagonally across the face.

Then we have the Sow Choy very very close to what Sifu Parella is discussing, but with more a wider swinging path. in this sow choy we use the first two knuckles of our fists aimed the same place you'd use a hook punch.

the third sow choy is behind the base of the skull. instant knock out.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Hi, very nice presentation (with the cut out it looks very pro)

Am I wrong to suppose that in the situations you used to show the hookpunch you could have used a sau choi instead. And could you talk about where you would use a hook and where a sau? I know its a different movement (different striking areas, probably aiming more to the chin, less to the back of the head as opposed to sau choi) but the situation in which you would use one and not the other isn't clear to me, so could you be so kind to elaborate on the subject? (and other too of course)

thx

There are actually two more hooks that we use (youtube accepts videos less than 10 minutes) but I didn't have time to show them all.

The hook is a lot quicker and can be used at a closer range. So Choih packs a bigger whallop but takes a little longer to get there. I don't characterize the strikes for where they hit; granted you can't use every strike for every target. I wouldn't use the hook to hit someone in the back of the head per se, but it's not entirely impossible. One of our other hooks could actually hit the back of the head successfully!

But look at the major structural difference; So is usually a very straight arm swing, to help generate a lot of destructive force. It hopes to crash through whatever it meets. The hook however, need to be used a little more strategically and chooses to go 'around' an oponents defense (bent arm).

Glad you like it. More to come next week!

[T. Cunningham]

TODD,

let's not get that twisted, cool?

i slapped that together without any real thought. i was trying to list what masters represented what branch or school. so to say i slighted chan yong fa is unfair, because it was all done so quickly to illustrate something.

and Most of Doc Fai Wong's schools use Heroic Victory Hung Sing.

Sorry, but he doesn't represent our lineage. if he does, it's through wu van cheuk, who eventually went to learn from Chan Yiu Chi.

but let that drop, it's of no importance here.

Nothing to get twisted frank and maybe the issue is, as you stated, there was no real thought put into your statement. Unfortunately you don't get to determine your sisook's lineage - he's part of your immediate family even though you might consider him to be "from the other side of the tracks". If you want to state the facts make sure you validate them first or at least give the caveate that what you're saying is simply your opinion. As to the slight, we'll have to agree to disagree but I think you know where I'm coming from.

[hskwarrior]

then we'll just have to disagree then won't we?;)

and i never determined his lineage, i just know he doesn't represent us, and i CAN say that with authority.

Yes Doc Fai Wong is Hung Sing.....most of his schools now display this 雄勝

and, that's his thing. we're cool with that.

[Mano Mano]

Thanks,

Here is the next one - Gok Choih (Hook Punch)

I'm sure there are many different names for it, this is the one we use.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWfRsh2roeI

Hope you all enjoy it.

I appreciate you putting these clips up on youtube, the above video was a lot like the way my dai-sihing taught me to train & use my CLF hook punches both with the pads & applications.
Can I ask if any of master Chan Tai San’s training methods where influenced in anyway by his western boxing experiences I only ask because my dai-sihing was an amateur boxer & introduced focus pad training to our CLF back in the early 1980’s.

[hskwarrior]

All TCMA schools need to start using more pad work.

we've been using them for awhile now.

[Mano Mano]

Frank, I couldn’t agree more with you.

[David Jamieson]

All TCMA schools need to start using more pad work.

we've been using them for awhile now.

air

pads

heavy bag

partner drill

free style

spar

use it for real.

lol. To me, this is the logical pattern for learning a given technique. Keep working with rudiments such as plant and structure as you work techniques and your kungfu will develop not bad.

all parts syncronized is the optimum, the breath, the stepping, the eye, the mind, the technique.

this last one on hook punch was better I think. The detail view in a pic in pic is a good idea!

[Vilmore]

you forgot the wooden dummy :)

I agree, once I started doing gwa chois and sau chois on muy thay pads I started to really understand the moting and the force much better then just air drills/forms.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I appreciate you putting these clips up on youtube, the above video was a lot like the way my dai-sihing taught me to train & use my CLF hook punches both with the pads & applications.
Can I ask if any of master Chan Tai San’s training methods where influenced in anyway by his western boxing experiences I only ask because my dai-sihing was an amateur boxer & introduced focus pad training to our CLF back in the early 1980’s.

I'm not really sure. I do know that we were using pads (focus mitts and an air shield) back in the late 80's. I have several drawings of his, that featured a variety of different training equipment and he always advocated 'hitting things.'

We really didn't know that he even had a boxing career until I went back to Toi-San and actually met his boxing coach! The day before, I was told a story about the first time he ever fought in a ring.

[diego]

I'm very curious if their is any differances between your Lama Sow Choy and your Choy Lay Fut Sow Choy?.

The sow choi I was taught in kaido's hop gar connects with the ridge hand fist side and rolls along your two big knuckles knocking his head off..I can remember being hown four tactics using it...palm his chest with your left turning him into a right sow choy to the side of head or neck...do that from right side bow (crane stance) going into left crane for the right sow.

I was shown another where he does right punch to groin in left crane and then shuffle forwards as he bends down from the nut shot and land in another left crane stance and right sow to face or neck.

right steal stance and right backfist groin left gaurds right ribs and right backfist face...rotate counterclockwise on your right heel and unwinde to left twist stance and right sow to head or neck on his left side.

the last one without describing the beginning...you get on his inside in a right crane stance and left palm his chest with your right tiger claw supinated at your right short ribs and then you pivot counterclockwise into a right leg weighted side cat stance and right sow choy to his face or neck on his left side.

Very curious how your lama sow looks...kaido just uses a wipe fist instead of the close sow choy you did with the leopard fist...kaido seems to rather use the big two knuckles than spend time training the leopard....I don't know if that is his intent but a lot of the moves in david chin's grey hop gar book kaido doesn't bother with...like they do an upswinging punch like an upward backfist to the bottom of his chin you hit with the two big knuckles...it's a sneaky technique but a rather useless form for what you could be training imo...kaido simply does that technique with the top of his wrist which is naturally harder than the upswinging structural surface...

like oeeps talk about you could spend years building your tiger claw...my teacher simplified it, said kaido would just do push ups and grow his nails and file than sharp then he would scratch your eye with the fingernail....

kinda takes out the mystique of it all...but then nothing spiritual about fighting unsless you're a wargod.:D

[Mano Mano]

I'm not really sure. I do know that we were using pads (focus mitts and an air shield) back in the late 80's. I have several drawings of his, that featured a variety of different training equipment and he always advocated 'hitting things.'

We really didn't know that he even had a boxing career until I went back to Toi-San and actually met his boxing coach! The day before, I was told a story about the first time he ever fought in a ring.

My sifu always had us hitting bag’s & dummies both wooden type & people.:)
My favourite training bag was a large flat swinging bag used for chap chui strikes, when the bag stared to swing toward you; you were able to then add techniques as in your kau da video the gwa chui. cum sao.
My Si-hing’s philosophy was why throw a punch if you’ve no intention of hitting anything so he always had us hitting things as well.

I know that western boxing had taken root in other Asian countries like the Philippines due to American influence & various ex- British & Dutch territories but I never thought of China as a place for western boxing.

[hskwarrior]

yeah we got those hanging sand bags in canvas too.

we always used no gloves and would leave all of our blood on it. nasty to think about, but we were very gung fu about ours.

[extrajoseph]

What? You only had blood on them? We had sweat and tears!:D

[hskwarrior]

Gung Fu people don't sweat or cry!!!!!!!

Sweat and tears!!!!!!!

what kinda gung fu world do you live in? Gungie Fui ?

REAL GUNG FU PEOPLE BRUISE ON THE INSIDE!!!!!:eek:


:p

[Mano Mano]

What? You only had blood on them? We had sweat and tears!:D

What only three, we left blood, sweat, tears & pain. :D

[extrajoseph]

Ohh... that is kinky!:D

[hskwarrior]

Gung Fu People Don't Feel Pain.

We Laugh In The Face Of Pain..... Ha!

Pain! What A Rediculous Concept!!!!!!!

[hskwarrior]

Joseph....

I have something to tell you!

Come a little closer........a little closer.........just a little closer now.............

:eek:HUM SUP LOW!!!!!!!

[Mano Mano]

Gung Fu People Don't Feel Pain.

We Laugh In The Face Of Pain..... Ha!

Pain! What A Rediculous Concept!!!!!!!

we left the pain on the bag :D

[hskwarrior]

yeah, we learned to transfer our pain and leave in other objects......

kinda like "break his wrist and walk away":D

[extrajoseph]

Joseph....

I have something to tell you!

Come a little closer........a little closer.........just a little closer now.............

:eek:HUM SUP LOW!!!!!!!

Hum is to bend over in English,

Sup is wet in Cantonse.

Low is low.

What are you tried to tell us, Frank? :D

[hskwarrior]

hom sop low.....

hum sup low......

but definately not hum ling..:D

[extrajoseph]

I Know, I kinw, Frank. You never did like him that much. Ling is too skinny.:D

[hskwarrior]

your ling is too skinny LMAO......

i'm italian!!!!! we got linguisa

[extrajoseph]

What only three, we left blood, sweat, tears & pain. :D

On a serious note, pain is a natural way the body tells you that something is wrong and blood is when you cut yourself, so both are not a very smart way to train.

Take the CLF 3 stars blocks for example, it is not about taking in the pain or toughtening the forearm, it is about how to slight roll your block at the point of contact, so you don't get the pain but get the right effect.

[hskwarrior]

i think thats more a matter of choice than it being a CLF way.

i will roll for different purposes. but i have realized the benefits to having tough forearms, especially realize it effectiveness when i see the pain the other persons eyes.

[extrajoseph]

That is because the other person don't know how to "rock an roll" and slightly stretch his fingers and bend his wrist sideway when you try to hit him the hardest. It is the qi way to deal with big tough guys like you.

[Mano Mano]

On a serious note, pain is a natural way the body tells you that something is wrong and blood is when you cut yourself, so both are not a very smart way to train.

Take the CLF 3 stars blocks for example, it is not about taking in the pain or toughtening the forearm, it is about how to slight roll your block at the point of contact, so you don't get the pain but get the right effect.


I know, I'm just toying. I was thinking along the lines like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsWd5QC7K5E

[hskwarrior]

the only qi i have ever felt was from my student. he had learned dim mak before me. one day had just laid his hand on my chest. the next morning it felt like i got hit by a mack truck.

so i welcome your chi...........just.........keep it in your pants!!!!!!

[extrajoseph]

Man o man,

Good toying, love that, always had the right effect of making me laugh in pain. :D

[hskwarrior]

but dear brother joe, don't you think a big tough guy like me would know the ins and outs of my own gung fu?

i have ways of dealing with your ways!!!!

ya hear meh?

[extrajoseph]

the only qi i have ever felt was from my student. he had learned dim mak before me. one day had just laid his hand on my chest. the next morning it felt like i got hit by a mack truck.

so i welcome your chi...........just.........keep it in your pants!!!!!!

It is not that kind of qi Frank, more like this type:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik0gD8idYEU

[hskwarrior]

that was real good chi there.....

but can you teach your students this type of chi brother joe?

i learned this from the secret manuals of the Green Grass Monk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHluC15KQIU&feature=related

[extrajoseph]

Hey, I've go to man, me missus wants me to change the kid's nappy.. Talk to you tomorrow the same time, OK?:D

[hskwarrior]

sure thing.:mad:

you better be there or i will post a video of me looking for you on aol video!!!

[cjurakpt]

the only qi i have ever felt was from my student. he had learned dim mak before me. one day had just laid his hand on my chest. the next morning it felt like i got hit by a mack truck.

so i welcome your chi...........just.........keep it in your pants!!!!!!

you probably had a parasympathetic response to the input provided by your student's contact/intention, and dumped a lot of stored up metabolic waste out of the connective tissue matrix into the lymphatic system which is why you felt like crap the next day (some folks would call this a healing crisis, I call it an umediated detox response); bottom line, it's not as big of a deal as you might think, I've heard a hundred similar stories involving people who never trained dim mok in their lives; anyway, the second time wouldn't be as dramatic, and you could have avoided it in the first place by drinking a lot of water and taking a nice walk in the woods afterwards...

that said, let's get this thread back on topic...

[Lama Pai Sifu]

that said, let's get this thread back on topic...

I will be putting up some new clips this week, Wed. or Thurs.

I am also interested in what people on the web would like to see...

Do you guys want to see more apps.?

More training clips/how to clips?

Defenses against other styles?

Let me know, I will do my best to accomodate those who respond here and subscribe to my youtube channel.

Peace.

[Mano Mano]

I will be putting up some new clips this week, Wed. or Thurs.

I am also interested in what people on the web would like to see...

Do you guys want to see more apps.?

More training clips/how to clips?

Defenses against other styles?

Let me know, I will do my best to accomodate those who respond here and subscribe to my youtube channel.

Peace.

It’s your stuff you should show what you want.

[Vilmore]

he's probably got so much to show he doesn't know where to begin and wants us to help him choose :)

Well like I've said before, I'd be interested to see you show Kahp (from the "5 most destructive CLF techniques" thread)

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I'ts not that I don't know what to put up. I'm not putting these up because I want to look at them. Ultimately, I'm hoping to benefit the CMA community at large; whether it be students or instructors. What I want to show, might just be very different from what some would like to see.

I'm just looking for some feedback as to what other would like to see, including yourself! So far, everyone has been very positive and has offered everything from great feedback to correctful criticisms and supportive comments.

I was lucky to learn a lot from my teacher and I've no problem with sharing it all! I'm not really secrective about anything....at least not anymore!

[hskwarrior]

you do understand that most of us know these techniques and are comfortable with our own methods......but it's always nice to see others do what they do.

who knows someone may get inspired. but i think on the most part, its just a comparison thing......but i could be totally wrong.

[Steeeve]

Thank you very much Sifu Michael for this video and this ggood work....

I really like this informative video of the basics.....with good explainaitions of the mechanist of the motion ....keep to give us the seed ....after you could give us more advanced stufff.......now cup choi:)

About the gok choi.....hook punch ......i could see the difference with the so choi
the arm is bend ....but does in very closed range like in the clinch position you used the hook to strike the back of the head or used the boxing hook 90 degree bend arms.....?

Does the gok choi or so choi are from the same seed same path or angle of attack

I saw all is techniques like angle of attack......

Thank to share and keep ur good work

Steeve the french

[Lama Pai Sifu]

you do understand that most of us know these techniques and are comfortable with our own methods......but it's always nice to see others do what they do.

who knows someone may get inspired. but i think on the most part, its just a comparison thing......but i could be totally wrong.

Frank, I do understand that the techniques I've shown so far are not only common in CLF, but also in most Southern styles.

I'm happy for you that you are comfortable with your own methods. I wasn't aware that you were speaking for the forum, collectively - in regards to what everyone knows or what they are 'comfortable' with.

That being said, I'm happy with the feedback I'm getting. Apparently some people are getting something out of what I post. If you are not, that's fine too. You have a lineage and an Instructor whom you are very proud of. I know exactly how you feel. I think it is a bit presumtuous however, to think that everyone here is in the same boat that you are.

Just a thought.

[hskwarrior]

no disrespect was intended, so i hope you didn't take it that way.

but i never said that i was speaking for anyone, you assumed i was.

i was just pointing out that you should put out what YOU want, not what WE want.

Ultimately, I'm hoping to benefit the CMA community at large; whether it be students or instructors.


I think we all want to benefit the CMA at large.

so don't get me wrong dude.

[cjurakpt]

if I could speak on behalf of Mike's rationale for a moment, knowing him for close to 20 years now (dang!), I may have a little insight as to the method behind his madness; I think that, to a large extent, it's a question of "legacy" - a lot of what we learned from CTS was, quite frankly, grossly misunderstood and misapplied, even by some of his "senior" students (typically, it was filtered through the lens of their own past experiences - cup too full and all that, or they just didn't get it in the first place); so I think a big part of what Mike is doing, is to create a public record of what CTS taught in a way that accurately represents the theories and applications behind his CLF teaching;

the other part of it, as he has stated, is to stimulate thoughtful exchange between practitioners by putting out some basic principles in context of how the style "works"

BTW, I like the name CLF Project - it implies an on-going, work in progress attitude that encourages feedback and interaction; certainly, a lot of it may not be revolutionary for some folks on here, but again, I think the point was more to a) make it a matter of public record and b) stimulate thoughtful discussion, rather than to instruct or enlighten

maybe we will see a Lama Pai Project as well some day (Ross? paging a Sifu Ross?); or even a Hung Kyuhn Project, LOL (First Seminar: 99 Ways to Do Bik Da)

personally, given the available technology and ease with which video can now be uploaded, I can't think of a better way to utilize forum bandwidth (aside from the occasional "Lama vs. [insert name here]" flame war, of course ;) )

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Oh, look for the 'Lama Pai Chronicles' next week.

No, I'm not kidding.

I'm going to start filming the 8 fist seeds to start with. But I might skip one or two and get right to Biu. I don't think I have ever seen any other style use it the way Lama does.

I think that most of the non Tibetan-based martial artists will enjoy the theories and principles of the style. Some of them exist within other arts, but not like they way Lama people do it.

And we all know that the Tibetan arts have always been very hush hush. You can find more SPM and Bok Mei on the net than Lama/White Crane/Haap Ga. And those styles are also known for their secretiveness. I think this will be cool to do.


And Bik Da? What's that? I don't recall ever hearing those words in combination before.
LOL, I bet you still have nightmares...ha ha ha.

[lkfmdc]

Mike, maybe I could come out to the school and film some Lama Pai stuff with you.... to get my DVD guy isn't conveinant as he also does a lot of big projects and believe it or not, I don't have my own camera :eek:

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Come on down baby.

By the way, call me tomorrow, I tried you today but got your voicemail.

[cjurakpt]

And Bik Da? What's that? I don't recall ever hearing those words in combination before.
LOL, I bet you still have nightmares...ha ha ha.

drugs have taken care of most of them - lots and lots of federally regulated drugs; and the occasional electro shock treatment...

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Bik Da! Bik Da!

[sanjuro_ronin]

In the age we live in today, sharing info is the best way to irradicate frauds and people who misinterpret a system.

Well done and keep up the good work Michael.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

In the age we live in today, sharing info is the best way to irradicate frauds and people who misinterpret a system.

Well done and keep up the good work Michael.

Thanks for the kind words. I'll be filming tomorrow and should have some stuff up by tomorrow night. A little thanksgiving present for everyone....


Peace

[cjurakpt]

Bik Da! Bik Da!

it only works if you spew half-chewed KFC while saying it...

BTW, got your VM, just running a bit today, I'll try to touch base tonight when I get home

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Ha ha ha. That was a funny day, Bik Da, Bik Da!

Anywho, I'll post some more CLF clips tonight for everyone. But not standard stuff. I'll try to do something more specific to our style or just a unique CLF thing...

Until then.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Just saw your Gok Choih Clip, very well done, I enjoy how you go from explaining the technqiue, to "boxing applications", to "MMA", to bare knuckle.
Great quality all around and I appreciate that you keep it under 10 mins.
Looking forward to seeing more.
:)

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Thanks for the support, I'm glad you like it. Here's another one...Happy Thanksgiving!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqGMm0YyIec

Check out my channel for a bunch of other goodies..

[shaolin_allan]

videos are great keep it up! your stances look good and technique also.

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqGMm0YyIec

This one brought a smile to my face, this was how I was taught to do a "over hand shovel hook" when I first started Boxing way back when in Portugal.
:D

[Lama Pai Sifu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqGMm0YyIec

This one brought a smile to my face, this was how I was taught to do a "over hand shovel hook" when I first started Boxing way back when in Portugal.
:D

Cool! That's good to hear. Good stuff is good stuff. It doesn't matter where it comes from. :)

[David Jamieson]

i think the demonstration of structure and how that crosses over styles is interesting. It says a lot about shaolin kungfu and it's diaspora.

[diego]

Thanks for the support, I'm glad you like it. Here's another one...Happy Thanksgiving!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqGMm0YyIec

Check out my channel for a bunch of other goodies..


Good stuff Mang:)

[Steeeve]

thank again for the videos

from what I saw in the videos the so choih and gok choih are from the same mechanist but one is with the extension arm the other one bending arm

For the over head hook you have the cup choih version with extend arm...

Does we could classified punch techniques for their trajectory(I mean the angle of attack)?

Steeve

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I don't classify techniques according to the trajectory; especially because there is so much variation.

The power required to generate force with So Choih and with Gok Choih are completly different. Almost no relation whatsoever.

Interesting questions though....

[Buk&Hung Sing]

I would agree in understanding the trajectory of the strikes: sow is the antithesis of the gwa. I personally would avoid a sweeping horizontal strike so as not to get uprooted; a downwad 45 degree angle strike will allow one to better sink their weight.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Both the downward angle and the horizontal have the advantages and disadvantages. I think it's just a matter of preference. Personally, I prefer the horizontal one.

[nospam]

Nothing beats the old clothes line to the midsection. Not sure why that would give away one's root..??..yet to be uprooted during this move. But we all have different experiences.

nospam
:cool:

[T. Cunningham]

I would agree in understanding the trajectory of the strikes: sow is the antithesis of the gwa. I personally would avoid a sweeping horizontal strike so as not to get uprooted; a downwad 45 degree angle strike will allow one to better sink their weight.

I agree. In addition to the sinking energy, tun ma can lend even more power. In my opinion, the 45 degree sau can be used at all ranges whereas the horizontal sau is better suited to the short and middle range where the torque of the waist/hips and the shape can be maximized. As always, situation determines usage.

[Steeeve]

Maybe the So choih 45 degree add more sinking to follow with the biu choih( forearm strike)....but a horizontal so choih could add more floating for follow with a spinning back fist(spinning gwa choih or bin choih(horizontal) just chinese term here not sure if I used the good one:)) If the opponent avoid ur so choih

just my two cent

Steeve

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Maybe the So choih 45 degree add more sinking to follow with the biu choih( forearm strike)....but a horizontal so choih could add more floating for follow with a spinning back fist(spinning gwa choih or bin choih(horizontal) just chinese term here not sure if I used the good one:)) If the opponent avoid ur so choih

just my two cent

Steeve

Steeve, what strike do you mean by "biu"? You mentioned a forearm strike, but that is not the same thing.

Oh wait, do you mean Biu Jong Choih?? I just re-read your post...

[hskwarrior]

he means biu jong.

[metsubushi]

This is so awesome. It's nice to see You Tube being used for something useful. Keep up the great work!

[Steeeve]

Yes biu jong choih......a kind of outward forearm strike ...we could use for strike ,block of for a throw......

Steeve

[Buk&Hung Sing]

Both the downward angle and the horizontal have the advantages and disadvantages. I think it's just a matter of preference. Personally, I prefer the horizontal one.

You're a big guy, you could probably graze a person and knock them over! I personally would use a wun que and spin into you for a strike (I assume I can't avoid your strike). I wouldn't have that option with a sau choy because your strike will be going down to your mid gate keeping you protected, and you will still have the option of using a biu jong or gwa choy. I think your horizontal strike would probably be best as a hook at close range. Great vid though, I hope to see the whole series one day!

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I'll be filming some more this week.

[diego]

I'll be filming some more this week.

LAMA PAI, LAMA PAI, LAMA PAI!!!...:)

[Lama Pai Sifu]

LAMA PAI, LAMA PAI, LAMA PAI!!!...:)

I will begin the filming of the Lama - this week....lol

[CaliKF]

Just joined the forum - these are some good videos. Thanks for sharing very cool.

[Steeeve]

Great Thank Michael

You have already put a nice video of the lama Sup ji...I like it:) very clear execution of the motion ...good instructionnal

Steeve

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I just put up the whole form. Check my youtube channel.

[Steeeve]

Thank Michael

To put all the form....

Steeve

[dupisha]

how come when i analyse you so choi you ignore me, but others praise you and you leave it up.
you should have listened to my advice.

[hskwarrior]

why Would He Listen To A Phuckin Retard Like You?

You Don't Know Anything!!!!!!!!!

[Lama Pai Sifu]

how come when i analyse you so choi you ignore me, but others praise you and you leave it up.
you should have listened to my advice.

Because your advice stinks. :D

It's unfortunate that you are such a rank amateur that you couldn't begin to understand what I can do....MMMWWWAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH

Seriously dude, you act like such a tool. Is this really the way you are, or is this just an act?

[hskwarrior]

Don't Sweat It Mike, He Said He's Leaving The Forum.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I'm not sweating anything....I think he's hysterical....lol

In all actuality, he's been a lot more fun and entertaining than our garden variety trolls....

Plus, we've all united against a common enemy! If Gene Ching was a tactical leader, he might have orchestrated something like this - a troll so unbelievable that EVERYONE here would join together to defend the forum's honor...lol

Either way, it worked! Thanks Gene Ching! You are a brilliant diplomat, leader and merchandiser!

[hskwarrior]

jedi mindtricks.........LMAO.....thanks gene!!!!

[hskwarrior]

hey, like it or not, we are all family here......we've been meeting here for years.

nice job forum goers.

[diego]

hello, i hope somebody is training...

[diego]

Lama Pai Sifu, thanks for linking your guys Ground killing set...finally something that really helps me understand the style I do better...How Sifu Ventura gets low with his stances, and the low sweep kicks...Kaido does some impossible hop gar footwork kick combinations where if you aren't warmed up and stretched you will pull your groin:)...Good stuff!.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Lama Pai Sifu, thanks for linking your guys Ground killing set...finally something that really helps me understand the style I do better...How Sifu Ventura gets low with his stances, and the low sweep kicks...Kaido does some impossible hop gar footwork kick combinations where if you aren't warmed up and stretched you will pull your groin:)...Good stuff!.

Cool, I'm glad you liked it. I'm going to post some new CLF clips tonight and tomorrow. I've got a clip of our Ten Animal Form and some other stuff going up tonight, tomorrow I'm filming some stuff myself.

As far as I know, a few of my classmates and I are getting together during the holiday break to film some stuff and to work out a bit, so I'll be posting that soon as well.

[diego]

:)

Just watched Ross' Tiger/Crane...pretty good form man...would love to see more footage of traditional practise!.
Peace

[lkfmdc]

:)

Just watched Ross' Tiger/Crane...



"blast from past" ;) that is like 20 years old (ouch!)

[SIFU RON]

Cross Pattern & Seven Star...

strong, good from, long horse,
really good,

thank you.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Here is a short clip of our Choy Lay Fut Ten Animal Form.

It's about 135 moves in total.

Choy Lay Fut's Ten Animal Form (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWTz2IkVmU0)

It's got the very end of the Dragon Section, the whole Snake section and almost all the Tiger.

Enjoy.

[diego]

"blast from past" ;) that is like 20 years old (ouch!)

come to think about it, the numbers are cool...in 88 i was ten watching the karate kid, and i remember running to the basement standing on one leg doing the okinawan crane kick:D...ten years later my moms is seeing someone who does a derivative of crane...ten years later we talking about your tiger/crane, and you Lama Master which is tibetan crane...

think that's kinda cool!.

[SIFU RON]

Nice moves, a good combination .

Thank you very enjoyable.

[Seppukku]

ten years later my moms is seeing someone who does a derivative of crane...

:confused:I'm confused.:confused: Your moms is a derivative of crane?


think that's kinda cool!.

I do, too. Do you have any pictures of your moms?

[Seppukku]

Nice moves, a good combination .

Thank you very enjoyable.

Are you the one who's doing Diego's moms? If so, what kinds of moves does she have that you find so enjoyable, and how does she combine them? Like, a superman, or a Hot Carl? What exactly does a crane do in bed?

[ingchao]

Are you the one who's doing Diego's moms? If so, what kinds of moves does she have that you find so enjoyable, and how does she combine them? Like, a superman, or a Hot Carl? What exactly does a crane do in bed?

These guys have demonstrated skill.
What has your moms demonstrated?
Besides the fact that she's a skin flute virtuoso who swallows the high notes.:D


Now go to ten yo' mama rank out sites, come back with what you got, then we'll talk about your her, your father, sister, Aunt, Uncle and Grandmama. And whoever else in your undisclosed lineage you want to bring up.

[Steeeve]

Seppukku

Do seppuku in you ...thats will be better....

next dont insult uncle Ron.....Me and him dont be really friend but He is not a crane but a tiger:) and next Diego is a friend and he take ur head off for insult ...

So **** You and have a good day *******

Steeve

[Steeeve]

Micheal and David nice video ....

Im more interest in the lama pai but its Ok:)



Does your hung gar came from Frank Yee....He was the first to bring Hung Gar in Montreal ,Quebec.....even today we have aschool here .......teaching his canton hung gar......

Steeve

[SIFU RON]

Seppukku

Do seppuku in you ...thats will be better....

next dont insult uncle Ron.....Me and him dont be really friend but He is not a crane but a tiger:) and next Diego is a friend and he take ur head off for insult ...

So **** You and have a good day *******

Steeve

Thank you Mon Director, there is hope for U yet. ;)

[lkfmdc]

Does your hung gar came from Frank Yee....



Steve Ventura and I learned Hung ga before we met Chan tai San

It comes from Sifu Thomas Yeung, it is also Dang Fong lineage but not from Sifu Frank Yee. Sifu Yeung was in NY in the 1980's then went back to Malaysia

[Steeeve]

Ur Welcome uncle Ron

David i ask cause I think Sifu Yee hes one of the first to teach HG in NY area after he move from montreal in thee tang fung lineage ofHG....thats why I give his name

keep the good work to show the videos

Steeve

[NGK.G.S]

Thank you Mon Director, there is hope for U yet. ;)

Steeve I am glad their is hope for someone:confused::confused:

[Steeeve]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SIFU RON
Thank you Mon Director, there is hope for U yet.

Steeve I am glad their is hope for someone


Sifu

I respect the pai ....whatever the controversie....We are brothers...We could insult us...but not the stranger could insult us....:D

[NGK.G.S]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SIFU RON
Thank you Mon Director, there is hope for U yet.

Steeve I am glad their is hope for someone


Sifu

I respect the pai ....whatever the controversie....We are brothers...We could insult us...but not the stranger could insult us....:D

I am not NGKSMM I am Your Uncle NGK.G.S:)

[Steeeve]

Thank to let me know ....

anyway What I said its the same ....


Steeve

[Steeeve]

BTW this thread its not us so better to go away by respect


Steeve

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Youtube is down, I'll upload the next CLF video in a few....keep an eye out.

[Steeeve]

I keep it open .....:)

Sorry for the intrusion...I mean to to post whatever its not ur bussiness in ur thread:)

Steeve

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Here is the most recent clip.

It's a combination from the basic level form, Siu Sahp Jih Kyuhn (Small Cross Pattern Form)

Simple technique combo, but won't be found this way in most other people's choy lay fut.

Gwa Choih w/Sweep Combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNm_7_PtJOc)

Enjoy!

[diego]

:confused:I'm confused.:confused: Your moms is a derivative of crane?



I do, too. Do you have any pictures of your moms?

actually yeah i do got pic's...she had six kids and works all the time on her carrear and her phd, wishes she could exercise...you nasty

[diego]

Here is the most recent clip.

It's a combination from the basic level form, Siu Sahp Jih Kyuhn (Small Cross Pattern Form)

Simple technique combo, but won't be found this way in most other people's choy lay fut.

Gwa Choih w/Sweep Combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNm_7_PtJOc)

Enjoy!

Good stuff...:) Cat stance backfist and palm strikes is what I'm training on the bag for now, thanks for giving me an idea for cat stance backfist follow up!.

[Steeeve]

Michael

Good move ...I like the two opposite force in the throw ....the sweep is done 45 degrees and the palm follow the same direction 45 degree but opposite direction
you throw the guy in his weakest point of his stance ....I mean a kindof triangle principles ...the line between trhe foot are the base the apex is the point of unbalance.... also the hook,grab,jerk or pull to put weight on his leg (right leg before the sweep is very important after the chiun nau or the kind of biu sau

Steeve

[SIFU RON]

I Agree. Very Good,

Thanks Michael

[diego]

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=8SypClCeeg8&feature=related

Mike, you had the applications for the 5 animal set up awhile ago, any chance of a repost?:).

[diego]

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=7VBXU00_Wzc&feature=related

this chick is awesome...punch punch...grrr:D

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Cameo was great to work with, she is awesome. Her sister is Corey Everson - who is really no joke.

Instead of reposting the older clips, I'll be filming some new ones soon. I'll be putting up some CLF combos and apps this weekend if not sooner.

As far as Lama, I've got a bunch of stuff that I am planning on filming within the next few weeks.

Thanks for the support.

If I don't respond to anyone quickly or don't post much, it's because I'm really just done with the trolls, flame-wars and poser on here..it's a bit too draining and I don't really have the time or patience for it. Rather just connect with some good people, share info/ideas and maybe arrange some gettogethers between forum members.

[Steeeve]

Diego ,Mike

Here the best one

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=tA2QkYWlAno&feature=related

:D:D:D

Steeve

[diego]

Diego ,Mike

Here the best one

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=tA2QkYWlAno&feature=related

:D:D:D

Steeve

I don't know if that leaves me aroused or shocked...i been with some big ladies but it was all good!. as kemo marten would say:cool::D

[IronWeasel]

bumpity...

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I'll be posting 2-3 more CLF clips by the weekend. Keep an eye out.

[IronWeasel]

I'll be posting 2-3 more CLF clips by the weekend. Keep an eye out.



Nice vids. Good speaking manner, and well made.

Now just for fun, spice the next ones up and let's see you rock that guy in the demo with some heavy contact!!!:cool:

[Infrazael]

You guys strike with the inside forearm as well sir?

Good clips. :)