How Many Clf Schools?

[hskwarrior]

how many schools from this forum train their elbows and knee's, but i'm not talking about a few drills, but really evolve the usage and training of our knee's and elbows?

[Mano Mano]

They train elbows & knees at sifu Edmund Ng's school.

[Ben Gash]

How are you evolving the training and usage of your knees and elbows other than by drilling them :confused:

[hskwarrior]

that's good!

I feel our knee's and elbows are one of the least spoken about weapons within the Choy Lee Fut style.

[hskwarrior]

because i know from my own experience that most TCMA schools have neglected training these weapons.......maybe out of fear of being called "copy cats" to that of Muay Thai.

and let's not forget, we as kung fu people have a bad rap for NOT using pad work, drilling and such......and there are some of those fools who have proven the "TCMA" haters right.

but adding in drills, applications, and whatever you feel you can to fully develop something that was soooooo neglected for so long, is to me "EVOLUTION"

So again, if your school has never really focused on pad work, bag work, or any other contact type drills, and now you do focus on it.........THAT RIGHT THERE......is EVOLUTION!

if you have never done something in your school but are now trying it out for the first time, That is "Evolution"............discovering.......manipulating.......m odifying.......learning........MR. BEN GASH.......is EVOLUTION!!!!!!

[hskwarrior]

and to tell you the truth, so far up until this point, the only CLF i've ever seen using their elbows and knee's in any way is in the movie who am i- jackie chan.

Chop Choys, spinning back fists, sow choys, upper cuts.......

that's all i've ever seen people use in fights.

but i could be wrong......its just my own experience.

[Shaolindynasty]

Chop Choys, spinning back fists, sow choys, upper cuts.......

that's all i've ever seen people use in fights.

but i could be wrong......its just my own experience.

Elbows aren't allowed in most competitions.

At the Ng Family Chinese Martial Arts Association www.ngfamilymartialarts.com elbows and knees are trained.

I train them even more heavily at my school www.hungsingchoylayfut.com and go as far as using elbows in sparring

[hskwarrior]

the chan family going from 40 something forms, to almost 200 is called

"EVOLUTION"

CAN YOU SAY IT WITH ME? ev-olu-tion (ev-ohloo-shun)....


just kidding man, don't get it twisted.

[Ben Gash]

We've always done knees and elbows, we've always done pad work, why wouldn't you? :confused:

[hskwarrior]

shaolin Dynasty,

sorry man, i wasn't referring to competition.

i ALWAY focus our training primarily for the streets. Sports come secondary in my book.


and you effort in that gets much respect.

and i was just checking to make sure our clf brothers are on point with having a full array of weaponry. thats all.

[hskwarrior]

MR. BEN GASH.

if you check my vids on youtube........you wouldn't ask me that question.

[hskwarrior]

and to answer your question to why wouldn't I?

because my school was soooooo old school that that kind of training was unheard of.

But that has changed in regards to what and how i train and teach MY students.

and, before you pop off at the gums, your public information says you got 13 years......well.....i've been at this for almost 30 years now.

i know i know what i'm talking about.

[CLFNole]

How can you work close range (inner gate) without training knees and elbows. Of course you really won't see much of this used in any kind of tournament venue becuase knees and elbows are almost always illegal. Most schools work both knees and elbows in various pad drills, maybe not just as much as some of the longer range attacks since classes are generally made up of beginners for the most part. Even so beginners should at least be exposed to knees and elbows.

[lkfmdc]

because i know from my own experience that most TCMA schools have neglected training these weapons.......maybe out of fear of being called "copy cats" to that of Muay Thai.



I deal with a lot of people from the Muay Thai world, I of course have a lot of students who have done some Muay Thai... I will state in this thread what I have stated to them and the world in general about a million times before :D

Do you really think the Chinese people walked around for close to 5000 years without ever noticing those hard, pointy objects attached to their arms and legs? Do you really think any martial arts could exist that doesn't use the elbows and knees?

[hskwarrior]

CLFNOLE,

MOST people train for tournaments. We've never really liked them. I don't like judges telling me what i can and cannot use against my opponent to win.

I always keep my training for the streets, where you can use elbows and knee's. as a street fighter i already knew how to use them......but in the initial stages of our training, pad work was never really used. we fought. we learned.........

so i can't speak about the sports aspect of martial arts......that's not what i'm in it for.

and the use of elbows and knee's really came into focus with MMA. so now martial arts schools (tma) are beginning to pick up that type of training.

[Ben Gash]

Frank, not everything is a direct confrontation. I didn't say WTF aren't you using focus mitts you loser, I raised a general, non-directional question :rolleyes:
I was chatting to my Sifu last night, and he's going to me "I don't get it, I was doing Sow Chui against focus mitts, training double legs and doing ground'n'pound in the early seventies, why is everyone so amazed when people do it now?"

[hskwarrior]

ROSS, i know what you're speaking about.

But I also know many schools neglected this type of training. since the emergence of MMA, it was been re-awakened.

[hskwarrior]

I was doing ground and pound in street fights, so i understand what he means.
Until MMA, i never knew what i did in the streets when someone went for my legs was called "SPRAWLING".............

but again, you know better than anyone, Lau Bun's people never used pads. if you don't believe me, ask DFW......

i have been told by my elders about how they trained under Lau Bun.

[CLFNole]

I don't think the MMA stuff has brought back knees and elbows as much as it has made people more aware and conscience of groundwork and grappling. I think the knees and elbows have always been there, like I said for close range fighting. It has nothing to do with training for tournaments, which is only a part of what many schools do. I know some train specifically for tournaments but I would hope that isn't the majority.

[hskwarrior]

now let's forget this drama, save it for your mamma, and let's discuss things like.....

mr. ben gash......since your sifu has trained as you've said.......how many different types of elbow strikes does your school do?

see, this is where i want this thread to go.

going anywhere else will make me delete it to end any form of drama.

[hskwarrior]

thats what i mean CLFNOLE when i said "brought back" its just my usage of words....like giving back your gung fu. so may not know that that means to forget or just not practice something you were taught.

see, to me, tournaments is a nice outlet.......but it has its downfalls too.

plus, my students don't want to compete (well my current group doesn't) but they do want to know how to use ALL their gung fu out in the streets, at a club, ATM, grocery store, gas station.....in front of your own home.......

[hskwarrior]

MR. Gash,

Frank, not everything is a direct confrontation.

its how i read what you write. it sounds sarcastic, full of disbelief......IDK.....i don't get the vibe its innocent in nature......sorry.

[Ben Gash]

Classically in the forms there are of course Peng Jaang and Bao Jaang. On top of this I use a Sow Jaang, a Lan Jaang (used together in a hacksaw motion - really nasty), a Pek Jaang, but the most common one I personally use is like a Bao Jaang but with a Kwun element, so it almost follows the same line as a Chin Ji. TBH I've largely abandoned the rising elbow as an offensive move (i still use it defensively), not sure why though.

[CLFNole]

We primarily use 4 elbows:

Pie Jahng - Cutting Elbow (could also likely be called sow jahng becuase it goes on the same path more or less)

Bik Jahng - Squeeze Elbow (like stepping in from the side)

Pow Jahng - Throwing Elbow (lifts in an upward direction)

Jong Jahng - Thrust Elbow (similar to chambering your hand where the elbow is thrust behind you).

[hskwarrior]

remember, "I ain't CHAINAiZE!"

but the elbows i use are the Diagnal Downward Chopping & the reverse of this, Level elbow, the elbow that comes straight up the center to like the sternum, or the chin.

but All elbows aren't meant for offense......i use an elbow by drawing it back to protect my ribs being struck......not what some of you guys may be thinking.....

its like elbowing the guy behind you in his gut. the tricep is used to deflect the punch.

[hskwarrior]

and thank you guys for commenting on this thread.

this is the kind of communication we as CLF people need to continue.

[Mano Mano]

Classically in the forms there are of course Peng Jaang and Bao Jaang. On top of this I use a Sow Jaang, a Lan Jaang (used together in a hacksaw motion - really nasty), a Pek Jaang, but the most common one I personally use is like a Bao Jaang but with a Kwun element, so it almost follows the same line as a Chin Ji. TBH I've largely abandoned the rising elbow as an offensive move (i still use it defensively), not sure why though.
why have you largely abandoned the rising elbow as an offensive move.

[CLFNole]

Yeah the rising elbow can be good and followed up with a downward tiger claw rake of the face.

[Ben Gash]

Like I said, I'm not entirely sure, it's just not in my expression at the moment. It probably just doesn't flow from any of my set ups.

[CLFNole]

It is also very good for break/elbow dislocation.

[Mano Mano]

Like I said, I'm not entirely sure, it's just not in my expression at the moment. It probably just doesn't flow from any of my set ups.

I’m not criticising or anything, it’s just I’ve always seen CLF elbows as aggressive way of dealing with an attack i.e. attacking the attack.

Nole do you mean if you’re using a left upward elbow for a dislocation would you following with a left tiger claw

[CLFNole]

Mano:

No 2 separate uses. The first being an upward strike under the chin or possible to the sternum area followed by the downward rake.

The break/dislocation use would be after say a cheun lah grab with the left hand, turn the wrist and step in with the lifting elbow.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

We use approx. 10 in CLF and 18 in Lama.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The rising elbow is also a great "defanger" :)

[CLFNole]

Yeah great "defanger" if you like getting teeth stuck in your arm. ;)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yeah great "defanger" if you like getting teeth stuck in your arm. ;)

Defang = breaking the limbs/hands, not the teeth. ;)

[hskwarrior]

one of my favorites is the rising elbow....

to the sternum, or the chin it doesn't matter.......but when you come out of it using fu jow, cup choy, or mon jeung........man it's nice!!!!!

[hskwarrior]

but that rising elbow also has to be trained to get that "BREAKING" power.

[Mano Mano]

The rising elbow is also a great "defanger" :)
I think I know where you’re coming from.
We have an elbow strike from our ping jan form which is basically a lap sao.
Basically you strike the attacking arm or fist with the ping jan elbow trapping the arm between the elbow strike the other hand, then pulling the arm down similar to a lap sao so you can strike with a back fist to the head or strike with the back of the wrist to the throat the

[hskwarrior]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tPggYvRzN4

this is one of our sets that shows a few of our elbows.......


and at the beginning of this one the elbows are god too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgjYAQyGr8c&feature=related

[T. Cunningham]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tPggYvRzN4

this is one of our sets that shows a few of our elbows.......


and at the beginning of this one the elbows are god too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgjYAQyGr8c&feature=related


Wow, a young Doc Fai Wong. I've never seen footage of him in his younger days. Glad to see it.

[hskwarrior]

thanks now.......

do you know that form?

[Fu-Pau]

because i know from my own experience that most TCMA schools have neglected training these weapons.......

You have personal experience in most TCMA schools?!? :eek: Boy, you must get around some!

You mean most TCMA schools in the world? Or most TCMA schools in your neighbourhood?:confused:

[Fu-Pau]

why have you largely abandoned the rising elbow as an offensive move.

Dunno about raising the elbow, but I have been known to raise the eyebrow as an offensive move!:D

[hskwarrior]

i'm talking about in the whole universe homie!!!!!!

[extrajoseph]

Hi Frank,

I'll do a deal with you, if you can add the names and a little bit of their background, of the performers in this wonderful docu of yours:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCs1Lcip-Io&feature=related

so they can be remembered (I know you may not be able to do them all, but as much as you can) and I will write out the names and meaning of ALL the 7 elbow techniques in CLF and their Chinese characters.

If you know them all, then there is no need to bother, you can tell us here.

EJ

[hskwarrior]

bro joe

there are too many people in that video to be mentioned.......

but to name a few there......

Prof. Lau Bun, Sigung Jew Leong, GM Salvatera, Jack Huey, david jew, susan, the white guy is larry johnson, Mah Sek, and Wong Ark Yuey......and there are some who i've never met but only heard about.....

why you wanna know that for joseph?