View Full Version : Understanding Ba Ji powers
the definition of Ba Ji is to use the head, shoulder, elbow, hand, chest/back, hip, knee and foot or 8 body parts.
so it is very powerful.
the next question would be what kind of power?
and how to train them?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwW4J9W8APs
1. rooting/planting power (gen jin)
2. downward sinking power (xia cheng jin)
3. extending power (cheng jin)
4. outburst power (bao za/fa jin)
5. closing power (he jin)
6. opening power (kai jin)
7. pushing power (ding jin)
--
:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8iyT3cn2ng
8. silk reeling (chan si jin)
9. kao jin.
:D
http://www2.xlibris.com/bookstore/bookdisplay.asp?bookid=42315
so my friends asked me to talk about the new book came out yesterday.
it is written like a manual or note format.
to cut the page counts and pricing. everything is written like an abstract or not wordy.
--
:D
the powers may be characterized by directions, grades, properties, purpose/function etc etc.
usually in each move/posture, there exist several types of powers and not just one.
some requirements;
three internal harmonies: will/yi, qi, Li.
3 external harmonies: hand and foot in sync/harmony, elbow and knee in harmony, shoulder and hip in harmony.
just to share some thoughts.
:D;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQUEBA3dVUQ
10. grinding or nian jin.
11. stamping/landing power or zhen jiao.
on and on.
--
:D
12 crossing or si zi jin.
some would say it exist in all postures.
or just as downward sinking power present in all postures.
---
:D
13. forward thrusting or qian chong jin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQUEBA3dVUQ
--
:)
14 inch power or cun jin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itXCOa9nDC8&feature=related
edit: my moves may not be perfect, however the basic ideas are there.
:)
15 rise or ti jin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqJXoR2KzYs
:)
16, stepping or walking power/ zou jin.
all the powers actually come from stepping into position and posture.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqJXoR2KzYs
ba ji stepping is moving close to the opponent, the closer the better,
you may notice there are different stepping methods in each practice vid.
--
:)
Shaolin Wookie
11-23-2007, 09:56 AM
the definition of Ba Ji is to use the head, shoulder, elbow, hand, chest/back, hip, knee and foot or 8 body parts.
so it is very powerful.
the next question would be what kind of power?
and how to train them?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwW4J9W8APs
1. rooting/planting power (gen jin)
2. downward sinking power (xia cheng jin)
3. extending power (cheng jin)
4. outburst power (bao za/fa jin)
5. closing power (he jin)
6. opening power (kai jin)
7. pushing power (ding jin)
--
:D
So, how is that Baji? I've done those 8 things in every martial art I've tried, and they're almost all the same every time, even though they have different names. Chi is universal, it's breath. It's stressed in every MA and sport, only it's not called chi. Not trolling, just like to hear what you think identifies Baji from anything else, other than the format of the forms.:)
LOL....every time I've stepped into another school, they tell me "We do things a little differently than everyone else. We do this....." and then it winds up being the same exact thing I've done elsewhere....LOL......
I do not do that many styles, so I may not comment on others.
there are several definitions of Ba Ji.
1. one is to use the 8 body parts to the extremes. or practice using these 8 parts to greatest skills.
2. tactics and strategy. if you restrain the opponent's arm/s, you open the door you may mount attacks from the 8 zones or all directions.
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Ba Ji is close fighting style. Wing Chun is short range or elbow distance fighting.
Ba Ji is even closer than that. so there are a lot of inch powers or small distance outburst powers.
--
:)
shaolin_allan
11-23-2007, 07:48 PM
baji seems to be to have a lot of concepts in common with muay thai. it covers all ranges and focuses on short fast and fluid strikes mainly.
street_fighter
11-23-2007, 07:57 PM
jesus christ. you read into this **** way too much. just train. train so you can fock someone up if you have to. thats baji.
another area that may be distinct.
you confine the opponent's attacking arm or leg. meaning you do not push or pull it.
you leave it where it is, you guard or grapple it, and you move your body to be close instead.
it is called inch intercept, inch grappling or cun jie cun na.
you do not pull the opponent close to you, you move closer to him.
--
Kemo Martin
11-24-2007, 08:25 AM
this is Ba Ji (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA9a977HzFg&feature=related):D
Shaolin Wookie
11-24-2007, 08:51 AM
baji seems to be to have a lot of concepts in common with muay thai. it covers all ranges and focuses on short fast and fluid strikes mainly.
jesus christ. you read into this **** way too much. just train. train so you can fock someone up if you have to. thats baji.
This is what I mean. Every martial art I've stepped into plays the range game, but the focus is on staying in the 1-pace range. Why? Because this is where all fights actually happen. I'm sick and tired of sparring people who want to pace around and launch kicks I can catch b/c I see them coming a mile away. So whenever I spar, it's at the grappling range, or not at all. It's where a fight happens. I dodge into and out of that range to change angles, but I dodge right back into it immediately. Almost every art uses every part of the body--elbows, knees, hands, feet, head---it's always the eight primary weapons; always a science of eight limbs. Nothing's really Muay Thai, nothing's really Baji. You just train to F-people up. Nobody has a patent on a knee, grappling, or a punch. Fighting is fighting is fighting.
Styles are just good for looking cool before you get down and dirty.
doug maverick
11-24-2007, 09:18 AM
This is what I mean. Every martial art I've stepped into plays the range game, but the focus is on staying in the 1-pace range. Why? Because this is where all fights actually happen. I'm sick and tired of sparring people who want to pace around and launch kicks I can catch b/c I see them coming a mile away. So whenever I spar, it's at the grappling range, or not at all. It's where a fight happens. I dodge into and out of that range to change angles, but I dodge right back into it immediately. Almost every art uses every part of the body--elbows, knees, hands, feet, head---it's always the eight primary weapons; always a science of eight limbs. Nothing's really Muay Thai, nothing's really Baji. You just train to F-people up. Nobody has a patent on a knee, grappling, or a punch. Fighting is fighting is fighting.
Styles are just good for looking cool before you get down and dirty.
gotta agree with that. espiecially the part about training to **** people up cause essientially thats what we do.
that is why I dun like the first definition of 8 body part extremes.
however, it is the "official" definition.
personally I like the second definition.
core principles of styles
=main tactics and strategy of styles.
what methods are preferred and honing in on in you or your style.
--
this is Ba Ji (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA9a977HzFg&feature=related):D
cool link.
:)
a couple of points.
1. style is a misleading word, men pai or school and branches are better words.
Ba ji was called Ba Zi or rake fist first.
it was popular in Cang Zhou area.
so Ba Zi Quan Fa or rake fist fighting methods would be the proper name.
what the hell is Ba Ji? oops pardon my cursing.
2. my learning would be lessons from Na Jing branch and some Wu Tan related.
the clip shown is Meng Cun Wu Ba Ji. I will kick the word of "style" out.
meaning Ba Ji fighting methods practiced and passed down from Wu family and in Meng Cun area.
3. the reason I started the thread is to info spread the Ba Ji fighting methods.
the stuff I do or practice already been singled out as a different branch by my mainlander Ba Ji brothers.
we may call it orange county or laguna beach branch.
the "differences" from other branches.
a. emphasis of grinding step at the end.
b. stamping foot light in the beginning, and heavy at the end of posture.
c. rooting and inch power at the very end, meaning outburst at the very end or the last split second, and not outburst in the beginning of the posture.
d. focusing power expression on a single point while the rest of the body is relaxed, it can be an elbow, palm, fist, shoulder/hip kao etc etc.
---
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQUEBA3dVUQ
in this clip, you may hear the grinding sound from the sneaker at the end, you may see focused point power expression etc etc.
I did not do this, I still call the stuff I do/practice Ba Ji,
however, my Ba Ji brothers in China said I am a different branch. do it differently enough to be recognized as "different".
:D;)
the other big "difference"
in order to practice inch power or outburst at the last split second.
we have to practice everything slowly with the body totally laxed.
almost tai chi like and tensed at very end.
99 % you are moving like Tai Chi Lao Jia Yi Lu.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itXCOa9nDC8
only at the last 1 %, you end like Tai Chi Lao Jia Er Lu or pao chui.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwW4J9W8APs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqJXoR2KzYs
:D
doug maverick
11-24-2007, 06:01 PM
when i practiced xing yi i usually end my practice with doing the five fist really slow(i mean really slow) it takes me about 2 minutes to do a complete movement. my sifu told me thats how you build fa li, which in turn helps you build your fa jing(or something like that i could be mixing up the terminology if so sorry)
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